03-10-2012, 09:15 AM | #201 | |
Pro Starter
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Quote:
I disagree with "he can only stop himself angle". Seen to many young QB's get destroyed behind porous offensive lines, QB's who have went through so many offensive systems that they simply got lost and QB's who simply didn't fit into a traditional mode. I see RGIII walking into the worst possible situation in Washington. They sold the farm to get him, they haven't won in a long time, they have little in the way of 'weapons' and a coaching and front office staff most likely sitting on the hottest of hot seats. Shanahan is going on his third QB in three seasons and has already squandered a second and fourth round pick on Donovan McNabb. He's a good kid walking into a bad situation...
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03-10-2012, 09:21 AM | #202 |
Coordinator
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I was hoping the Redskins would trade up and get the #2 pick. Now, let's hope RG3 doesn't suck.
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03-10-2012, 09:38 AM | #203 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2001
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Quote:
I agree with all of this. I'll also add they get 6 games a year against the Cowboys, Eagles, and Giants. All very tough opponents who can get after the QB. The smartest thing they could do is have him sit for a year and learn. I think that wold really teach him to not pull the ball bown and run to soon and get smacked a lot his first year. I'm not sure they can do that though given what they gave up for him. Last edited by Lathum : 03-10-2012 at 09:39 AM. |
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03-10-2012, 09:56 AM | #204 | |
Head Coach
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I think once it became apparent Manning wasn't going to sign with them, this almost became a must move, especially for Shanahan. But also from a ticket standpoint; they already ripped out a bunch of seats last year, and fans were likely not going to be too pleased with another year of Rex, or Beck, or whatever other stopgap could be thrown in there. RGIII gives them at least a year of leeway - "hey, we may not win this year, but this is a learning process for a rookie, we're continuing a smart rebuild", etc. etc.
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03-10-2012, 10:02 AM | #205 |
Pro Rookie
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I can't believe the Redskins are giving up on Rex Grossman so easily. The guy has proven to be a Super Bowl caliber QB.
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03-10-2012, 10:23 AM | #206 | |
Grizzled Veteran
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Quote:
There's next to no downside to this for him. If I were him, I would be ecstatic.
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03-10-2012, 10:47 AM | #207 | |
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Ya, that's what I think about this too - so you're trading up this year and then you have to throw in two more 1st round picks that probably won't be in the top 10. The odds are those picks will result in 1 bust, and one solid starter. Big deal. The odds of finding comparable talent in free agency to replace that loss are pretty high. Make 1 or 2 good free agent signings and its basically a wash. And maybe RG3 busts too, but you have a much better chance with him in 3 years than you do with whatever crap you have now. |
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03-10-2012, 10:53 AM | #208 |
College Prospect
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I think that with or without draft picks, Washington still signs enough players in FA that they can fill holes that way, especially in a year like this where the FA pool is pretty deep in a lot of positions. They might be getting ready to make a move on Nicks, Finnegan and Jackson and RGIII was the last piece of their offseason puzzle. We all know Snyder loves to spend on name FA players, and now that they become FAs earlier in their career, better players will be out there.
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03-10-2012, 11:03 AM | #209 |
Pro Rookie
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Washington better hope that the heisman curse doesn't hit RG3.
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03-10-2012, 11:14 AM | #210 |
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03-10-2012, 11:40 AM | #211 | |
Favored Bitch #1
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Quote:
Disagree. I think there is a very good chance the Redskins pick at least next year is in the top ten. RG III will be coming off his rookie year, even if they sign free agents you have to think it will take a season to gel, they play in arguably the best division in football. These are their 2012 opponents Home Games: Dallas Cowboys, New York Giants, Philadelphia Eagles, Atlanta Falcons, Carolina Panthers, Minnesota Vikings, Baltimore Ravens, Cincinnati Bengals. Road Games: Dallas Cowboys, New York Giants, Philadelphia Eagles, New Orleans Saints, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, St. Louis Rams, Cleveland Browns, Pittsburgh Steelers. I bolded games that are most likely losses. Now obviously it is the NFL, so they may win a few games they shouldn't, but could also lose games they should win, such as Carolina at home. I look at their schedule and I see 5-11 or 6-10 |
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03-10-2012, 12:11 PM | #212 | |
Pro Rookie
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Quote:
I'm not sure how much I like this argument. I do agree with those who have said that it is almost impossible to place a value on a franchise quarterback. If this works out, then great. But, you're essentially saying that it's 50/50 as to whether you're getting a Von Miller or Darrius Heyward-Bey. But now instead of rolling those dice three times in the first round over the next few years you're essentially rolling them once. Instead of getting three shots at that 50/50 game, you're only getting one shot and if it doesn't hit, then you're fucked. |
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03-10-2012, 12:12 PM | #213 | |
General Manager
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Except if you hit on even one of those two extra two 1st round picks (and get say, a quality starting CB or something), it doesn't matter if you don't have a QB. Why not just get that quality CB in free agency, it will be a much surer bet. Last edited by molson : 03-10-2012 at 12:14 PM. |
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03-10-2012, 12:25 PM | #214 |
Pro Rookie
Join Date: Nov 2003
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True, but what is the baseline for the quality of QB you need? Could they have traded down to get a Tannehill and kept their draft picks? I know Tannehill doesn't have the ceiling of a RG3, but it lets you stay safe until a better situation comes up, I'd think.
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03-10-2012, 12:28 PM | #215 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Nov 2003
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If you consistently make the kinds of personnel decisions that Snyder and Cerrato do, I'd say the baseline is a top three QB who can nearly single handedly take a team to sucess. RG3 might be that guy, Tannehill almost certainly isn't.
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03-10-2012, 03:22 PM | #216 | |
Head Coach
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Quote:
Finnegan was a phone guest on 980's Sports Reporters last week, which struck me as an odd choice. Makes sense though if he's a likely Skins signee.
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03-10-2012, 06:24 PM | #217 | |
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Quote:
Finally, someone commented on this topic using a little common sense/knowledge of the situation. As a Redskins fan, this is scary for us. But unless you know nothing about RG3, the sky is the limit for this kid. His ceiling is off the charts. He'd be the number 1 overall pick in most drafts, but unfortunately for him, the best QB prospect in 15 years (some say ever) just so happens to be in this draft. Once again, i will say that this is a lot for him, basically 2 first rounders and a second. And it's been difficult being a Redskins fan for the 15+ years. But we do have over 40 million in cap space, last year our free agent acquisitions were excellent, and Shanny actually did well drafting last year. Our first overall pick last year - Ryan Kerrigan, was in the top 3ish for defensive rookie of the year. Our second round pick - Jenkins, was the STUD of training camp until he had an unfortunate injury and we lost him for the year. Our Third Round pick - Hankerson, played like a monster in his first game as a starter. 8 catches for like 110 yards, and then hurt his hip in the 4th quarter and was out for the year. (terrible luck for us losing 2 of our top 3 picks for the year due to injury). Our Fourth Pick -Ray Helu, had a fantatstic rookie season and looks to be a serious all-purpose back. Even the late rounders did well, (look up Evan Royster). My point being, we are getting younger, we've purged most of the expensive overrated guys from the roster, and went 5-11 with no QB, no WR's, and a decimated offensive line. I genuinely believe that Shanny and Bruce Allen are changing the nature of this organization, and while this is Risky, its better then going into next season with Rex Grossman as our QB, or overpaying like hell for Matt Flynn. (sorry for the long post)
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Maniacal Misfitz - We're better than you and we know it! Last edited by Havok : 03-10-2012 at 06:34 PM. |
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03-10-2012, 06:34 PM | #218 |
College Starter
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~dola~
FYI - Cerrato has been gone for over 2 years now
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03-10-2012, 07:20 PM | #219 | |
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Quote:
Cam in a similar situation with a solid WR put up the best rookie season ever for a QB. Carolina finished 6-10. Anything below 8-8 is a top 12 pick in this year's draft.
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03-10-2012, 07:37 PM | #220 |
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How does 2012 1st, 2013 1st, and 2014 1st only equal two first round picks?
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03-10-2012, 07:48 PM | #221 |
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03-10-2012, 07:50 PM | #222 | |
Pro Starter
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Quote:
New math. It's designed to make the Redskins fan believe they didn't overpay for a guy who has yet to take a snap in an NFL game. See, the #6 overall pick in the draft doesn't count. That, they would have used this year on somebody anyway. So in theory, in order to gain the #2 pick & move up 4 spots they only had to give up 3 picks, 2 in the first round & one near the top of the second. |
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03-10-2012, 09:21 PM | #223 | |
Hall Of Famer
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Quote:
But they are still giving up three first round picks for one first round pick.
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03-10-2012, 10:04 PM | #224 |
Coordinator
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This isn't rocket science, people. It's three picks for one pick, or two picks to move up. Call it whichever you want, they mean the same thing.
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03-10-2012, 10:13 PM | #225 | |
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Quote:
It's actually four picks for one. Washington is giving St. Louis four picks in order to get one back.
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03-10-2012, 10:15 PM | #226 |
Coordinator
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Okay, fine. It is rocket science.
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03-10-2012, 11:00 PM | #227 | |
Grizzled Veteran
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Quote:
I wont comment on the rest of your post because I realize it is hope talking however I did want to ask you about this. While I agree he is a very solid prospect I am not sold on many of the other things you mention. He was mentioned as a possible 1st round pick coming into the year and was barely in the top 10 in November. Is it that he is really that great of a prospect or is it that the Redskins are desperate? I think if we all step back a bit and look at how him suddenly becoming the surefire #2 pick came about we could certainly question if he is as much of a lock qb prospect as the Redskins seem to think. In any case I dont think I would have even given up the 3 1st round picks and a second for Luck either. Apparently the Redskins have so little faith in their scouting department they are choosing the safest and most costly route to find their qb. Last edited by jbergey22 : 03-10-2012 at 11:02 PM. |
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03-10-2012, 11:52 PM | #228 | |
College Starter
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Well you have every right in the world to think they may have given up too much for him. (We can Thank Cleveland for that, as they were matching us pick for pick, and would have matched our final offer had St. Louis not immediately agreed to it.). In fact, I'm worried it was too much as well. But downplaying RGIII's potential, or blaming it on shitty scouting/desperation is a joke. I can't find a single scout who thinks he isn't going to be an outright stud. Does that mean he will? No. But he is the total package right now - smart as hell, a true class act, crazy athletic (but runs only when nothing else is available), good size, strong arm, and very accurate. But hey, it could be worse, we could have Ponder as our QB (and yes, I'm very hopeful. cause if this backfires I'm going to personally dropkick Snydurs 4'11 ass!!!!!!!!!!)
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03-11-2012, 12:14 AM | #229 |
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03-11-2012, 01:26 AM | #230 |
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Location: Minnesota
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Since RGIII brought in a haul of 3 1sts and 1 2nd I wonder what the Colts could have gotten for the Luck pick?
Lets just say the Colts could get 4 1sts and a couple later round picks for the #1 pick in this years draft. Do you do it despite not having a QB and passing on perhaps the greatest QB prospect since Elway? I think their quickest way back to the playoffs would be to take the trade. Perhaps I am just a bit bias towards the accumulation of draft picks because I seen the Vikings help build the Cowboys dynasty in the early 90s via the Herschel Walker trade. Last edited by jbergey22 : 03-11-2012 at 01:32 AM. |
03-11-2012, 01:51 AM | #231 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Yes, if only the Colts already had an all-pro QB on their roster who by all accounts could play another 2-3 years at a very high level. It's a shame they didn't have that.
Seriously, it's a choice I don't envy making. Without trying to slip into hyperbole, I wonder if the Manning/Luck decision might be one of the biggest decisions to shape a franchise in the history of pro sports. |
03-11-2012, 07:38 AM | #232 |
College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
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The #2 and #6 overall picks cancel each other out, because the Redskins had that pick tied to Griffin, either way. So, it's two firsts and a second for Griffin.
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03-11-2012, 07:42 AM | #233 | |
Hall Of Famer
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Quote:
You can't say the first round picks cancel out and then give the Redskins Griffin. It's three firsts and a second for one first.
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03-11-2012, 07:45 AM | #234 |
lolzcat
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Seriously, we're really having this debate? For days?
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03-11-2012, 08:20 AM | #235 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Quote:
Why? Were the Redskins going to land Griffin has an undrafted free agent? Yes? If it makes you feel better, I'm not wasting many brain cells on this "debate". Last edited by RedKingGold : 03-11-2012 at 08:24 AM. |
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03-11-2012, 08:43 AM | #236 |
Head Coach
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Rkg, you make no sense at all. Its three 1sts and a 2nd for griffin
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03-11-2012, 08:47 AM | #237 |
Grizzled Veteran
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clearly the Redskins were going to get Griffin at 6 but felt bad for St L so they traded up
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03-11-2012, 10:05 AM | #238 |
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03-11-2012, 10:08 AM | #239 |
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03-11-2012, 10:13 AM | #240 |
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Isn't it both trading 3 first round picks for 1, and a "net loss" of 2 picks and with an improved 3rd pick? I think both of those are accurate. (as far as the 1st round pick analysis, obviously there's a 2nd too, but I'm not smart enough to figure that in as well).
I think of it as giving up 2 picks to improve the third. That might not be your preferred semantics, but it's accurate. Last edited by molson : 03-11-2012 at 10:19 AM. |
03-11-2012, 10:19 AM | #241 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Quote:
The Redskins traded three first round picks and a second for the Rams first round pick. The Redskins gave up two first rounds picks and a second to move up from 6th to 2nd. Neither statement is incorrect. I could be wrong, but it seems like the second type of description is more commonly used for trades in draft day coverage. And I also can't believe this debate has been going on for days. |
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03-11-2012, 10:20 AM | #242 | |
Hockey Boy
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Let's hear from the experts on this scintillating debate!
Peter King from SI, was it two first rounders or three from RGIII? Quote:
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03-11-2012, 10:21 AM | #243 | |
Hockey Boy
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Quote:
Slow news cycle.
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Steve Yzerman: 1,755 points in 1,514 regular season games. 185 points in 196 postseason games. A First-Team All-Star, Conn Smythe Trophy winner, Selke Trophy winner, Masterton Trophy winner, member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, Olympic gold medallist, and a three-time Stanley Cup Champion. Longest serving captain of one team in the history of the NHL (19 seasons). |
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03-11-2012, 10:23 AM | #244 | |
General Manager
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Ya, I think the reason they used the second type for coverage is it gives you slightly more information. It tells you that one of those pick swaps involves picks in the same year, so the net effect is "moving up". It would be unnecessarly vague to just word it the first way. I have seen much more mundane topics than this on FOFC. We're not doing a lot of world-relevant discussion here or anything. I see the lego thread is up to two pages. Last edited by molson : 03-11-2012 at 10:24 AM. |
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03-11-2012, 10:31 AM | #245 |
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03-11-2012, 10:45 AM | #246 |
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03-11-2012, 10:51 AM | #247 |
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03-11-2012, 11:15 AM | #248 |
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I love that they used the same routine in two different films.
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03-11-2012, 11:18 AM | #249 |
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Shouldn't that be the other way around? SI
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Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!" |
03-11-2012, 11:34 AM | #250 |
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No. Because I just watched this video and it reminded me of Nathan Lane. I've never watched Nathan Lane and remembered Costello.
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