Crazy wierd thing with rookie contracts...anyone ever seen this? - Page 5

Cuckoo · 10-13-2005, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

I for one would like his IP Address (or addresses), so I can forward it to anyone concerned. PackerFanatic, if you don't feel right about posting it publically, a PM will do.

You posted this at the exact same time as me. Ditto on this for me; PM will do just fine.

QuikSand · 10-13-2005, 10:17 AM

Just for the record - from the screen shot earlier in this thread, it seems that this cheat saved the team about $13 million, compared to what his "slotted" contract likely would have been. Not exactly small potatoes, especially in a league where there are no injuries (and therefore even less risk of that player's bonus being dead weight down the road).

I do find this interesting, though:

Quote:

If I wanted to cheat there are a lot less obvious ways to do it

Coming from a guy who clearly has given this some pretty extensive thought... that's a bit worrisome.

Anthony · 10-13-2005, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuckoo

Yep. And from his response, perhaps I need to go alter our league rules to point out that you cannot CHEAT just to make sure it's clear. Hopefully, people in the NAFL are a little smarter than this guy.

it probably wouldn't hurt, either, to be more descriptive in what you deem to be "cheating". i've seen some people who think something *isn't* cheating if it's not in the league Constitution.

these leagues are for fun, really, and it sucks to have to have a law degree to draft an airtight constitution to erase loop holes, but the fact remains it doesn't take a lot to have people with different ideas as to what is fair play and what is illegal in order to have an unsavory situation. there'll always be people willing to see just how far over the line they can go, always willing to see what the limits are of a game. to them it's doing research/testing/gaining a competitive edge. to some it's cheating. to others it's blatant cheating. i think all you can hope to do is try to have something concrete in place that says what happens when obvious cheating occurs, so that there's no misunderstanding.

jeff061 · 10-13-2005, 10:24 AM

Is there really that much uncertainty around opening up a game in Commish mode to change things when you are not the commish and then export a file based on these changes?

If you have trouble categorizing that as cheating you are, to borrow from Blacky, obtuse or an idiot.

gstelmack · 10-13-2005, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I don't know how one goes back to check for this sort of thing... but I know if I were in a league with the likely candidates, I'd be looking for a way... and preparing my post in the "league openings" thread here.

It's POSSIBLE I could use the stuff I've got rolling in FOFInterrogator to help detect this. Basically flag any transaction on a rookie that was drafted that wasn't "Signed his rookie contract". Commishes could then review these to determine if they are legit or not. Could check for re-signings by the original team, etc.

Blackadar · 10-13-2005, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff061

Is there really that much uncertainty around opening up a game in Commish mode to change things when you are not the commish and then export a file based on these changes?

If you have trouble categorizing that as cheating you are, to borrow from Blacky, obtuse or an idiot.

HA is the latter. Of course, he did his best to try and bend the rules at IHOF and I wasn't sorry to see him go.

Anthony · 10-13-2005, 10:35 AM

i don't think it's that glaring of a problem in a league that plays with no injuries. i mean, if realism was what they were going for i don't think they'd be crowing a champion once a month. cheating sucks, but it happens. the only thing that gets wasted is people's faith in the integrity of the league and perhaps time (if they're really mad and walk away). there is cheating in real life - steroids, anyone - that don't have the lynchmob that you see when someone cheats in a league with fake players and no real financial investment on the part of the owners. if having faith in your fellow owners is that important to some, many would be playing with friends and family. i don't know anyone here personally, sure, some people post in a manner that makes it easy to assume if they're honest, law abiding people. i'm sure BTK was a very nice person also. all we have, especially in elite league, to go off of is the qualty of people's posts in an anonymous message board to make a judgement on someone's character.

people get up in arms, worked up in a frenzy, even, over cheating in an online game where there is no password protection or prevention of any kind. that's rather silly. i don't play in any league where i don't have faith in my commish - the one holding the keys is the only one that matters. i don't get surprised anymore when a fellow league owner is found to be cheating/pushing the limits of ethics, because, to go back to my earlier point - i don't know any of you from a stranger standing on my street corner. if cheating meant this much to most of you (and don't get me wrong, i don't condone cheating) there'd be a bigger outcry for password protection - faith in fellow owners or not.

Anthony · 10-13-2005, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackadar

HA is the latter. Of course, he did his best to try and bend the rules at IHOF and I wasn't sorry to see him go.

YOU FUCKING MOTHERFUCKER. YOUR WIFE IS A DIRTY WHORE.

you tell me on what basis you make this claim. you tell me where you get this statement from, anything i've done in that league where people, at any point in time over at IHOF called into question anything i've done.

at no point in time have i ever even considered bending any rules. for you to make this claim you are a fucking bastard. i will say a prayer tonite to God to bring disease and bad fortune on you and your family. may you all die slow deaths. i live in Whitestone NY, 20th Avenue. 11357. i work on 23rd st and Park Ave in Manhattan. at any point in time you want to defend the honor of your family you can PM me and i'll let you know what time to meet. when i beat the shit out of you i'll have someone video taping it, and i'll pull out my penis and urinate on you. then i'll post it online. i assure you of this.

this goes out to anyone who wants to insinuate i've ever been a "rule bender" or "cheater".

Blackadar · 10-13-2005, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

YOU FUCKING MOTHERFUCKER. YOUR WIFE IS A DIRTY WHORE.

you tell me on what basis you make this claim. you tell me where you get this statement from, anything i've done in that league where people, at any point in time over at IHOF called into question anything i've done.

at no point in time have i ever even considered bending any rules. for you to make this claim you are a fucking bastard. i will say a prayer tonite to God to bring disease and bad fortune on you and your family. may you all die slow deaths. i live in Whitestone NY, 20th Avenue. 11357. i work on 23rd st and Park Ave in Manhattan. at any point in time you want to defend the honor of your family you can PM me and i'll let you know what time to meet. when i beat the shit out of you i'll have someone video taping it, and i'll pull out my penis and urinate on you. then i'll post it online. i assure you of this.

this goes out to anyone who wants to insinuate i've ever been a "rule bender" or "cheater".

Truth hurts, doesn't it?

You couldn't beat the shit out of a 5 year old. Go back to spanking your eweenie.

digamma · 10-13-2005, 10:44 AM

I love a good internet "you're not man enough and I'll kick your ass" threat.

Been a week or ten days since we've had one of those.

Anthony · 10-13-2005, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Truth hurts, doesn't it?

You couldn't beat the shit out of a 5 year old. Go back to spanking your eweenie.

you were found guilty of cheating in IHOF as well, so i don't blame you for trying to dirty the names of others. misery loves company.

any time you like, there's an open invitation to NYC.

John Galt · 10-13-2005, 10:49 AM

WTF? Not that HA's reaction wasn't a tad over the top, but what are you talking about Blackie? It seems kind of random in this thread to just lay into HA and imply (but not explain why) that HA is a cheater. I don't know anything about IHOF and the history of cheating (other than the early Chubby actions), but your comments seem a little odd in this setting.

John Galt · 10-13-2005, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

you were found guilty of cheating in IHOF as well, so i don't blame you for trying to dirty the names of others. misery loves company.

any time you like, there's an open invitation to NYC.

Now I feel like I really missed something. What were you all doing in IHOF that was cheating?

Blackadar · 10-13-2005, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

you were found guilty of cheating in IHOF as well, so i don't blame you for trying to dirty the names of others. misery loves company.

any time you like, there's an open invitation to NYC.

If that were the case, I guess I wouldn't be there. I am, you're not. Have a nice day.

It's funny that you've been baiting me for months and I haven't responded, but someone digs up some history on you and you can't take it.

As Bugs Bunny would say, "what a maroon".

I AM enjoying my laugh at you.

Fonzie · 10-13-2005, 10:51 AM

*grabs popcorn*

cthomer5000 · 10-13-2005, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samdari

Didn't you do this yourself, testing how the draft sliders worked?

No, i did that in single player, starting a league with a preference draft.

cuervo72 · 10-13-2005, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackadar

You couldn't beat the shit out of a 5 year old.

Hey, now that's a completely different thread altogether.

(and I'm sure God puts prayers for disease and bad fortune right at the top of his to do list)

Raiders Army · 10-13-2005, 10:52 AM

He said eweenie. Heh heh.

Passacaglia · 10-13-2005, 10:53 AM

Hey, I'll be in NYC this weekend! You guys want me to be the cameraman?

digamma · 10-13-2005, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Galt

WTF? Not that HA's reaction wasn't a tad over the top, but what are you talking about Blackie? It seems kind of random in this thread to just lay into HA and imply (but not explain why) that HA is a cheater. I don't know anything about IHOF and the history of cheating (other than the early Chubby actions), but your comments seem a little odd in this setting.

It is a bit strange that, on average (by my unscientific measurement), approximately two out of three "you're not man enough and I'm going to kick your ass" threads involve Blackie.

Subby · 10-13-2005, 10:54 AM

That IHOF is so fucked up.

cthomer5000 · 10-13-2005, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

Were you skimming this thread?

I didn't get the impression that it was a rookie-contract you posted there. Obviously the guy has cheated beyond belief, my point was that that single contract wasn't obviously ridiculous (to me). There is a ton of bonus money there.

Anthony · 10-13-2005, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Galt

Now I feel like I really missed something. What were you all doing in IHOF that was cheating?

sorry John, i decided if the rule of the day would be to randomly call people "cheaters" then i would follow suit. if one tries to dirty my name, i try to shit on theirs.

i understand this is just the internet, and these leagues are all fake, but what is real is someone's integrity, ethics and reputation. those are real, and one must do what they can to uphold them, and defend them, if necessary, if one tries to maliciously dirty them. i'm angered immensely now over something as silly as an online league.

Raiders Army · 10-13-2005, 10:56 AM

And he talked about your eweenie.

Anthony · 10-13-2005, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I didn't get the impression that it was a rookie-contract you posted there. Obviously the guy has cheated beyond belief, my point was that that single contract wasn't obviously ridiculous (to me). There is a ton of bonus money there.

i hate to agree with you, but i do. that contract didn't seem blatantly outrageous, in light of all the bonus money that will be paid over the course of that contract.

cuervo72 · 10-13-2005, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HA's New Sig

I want Blackadar's wife to get AIDS.

We're really reaching new heights now.

PackerFanatic · 10-13-2005, 10:57 AM

lol...wow how this thread exploded.

WrongWay · 10-13-2005, 10:57 AM

Backed the wrong horse on this one didn't I.

Damn, I was expecting some sort of apology. Not a justification for his cheating.

Bee · 10-13-2005, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Just for the record - from the screen shot earlier in this thread, it seems that this cheat saved the team about $13 million, compared to what his "slotted" contract likely would have been. Not exactly small potatoes, especially in a league where there are no injuries (and therefore even less risk of that player's bonus being dead weight down the road).

Yep, that's about what I was estimating as well.

Anthony · 10-13-2005, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

And he talked about your eweenie.

he can talk about it all he wants, it's his wife's opinion on my weenie that i care about.

Raiders Army · 10-13-2005, 10:58 AM

33 users viewing this thread. Beats the Blacky's thread about Jim's new game to shame, eh?

jeff061 · 10-13-2005, 10:58 AM

Don't you need integrity and ethics in order for them to be slandered?

Raiders Army · 10-13-2005, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

he can talk about it all he wants, it's his wife's opinion on my weenie that i care about.

but what about her evagina? Would that make a difference?

John Galt · 10-13-2005, 10:59 AM

Before everyone gets put in the box, can someone tell us in the peanut gallery what exactly happened at IHOF regarding cheating and/or HA leaving? Simply pointing to some threads on the issue would be great. Thanks.

Subby · 10-13-2005, 11:00 AM

Well at least there will be a silver lining to this thread after all!!!

jeff061 · 10-13-2005, 11:00 AM

I think the only people getting boxed should be the people hitting report post and HA.

PackerFanatic · 10-13-2005, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WrongWay

Backed the wrong horse on this one didn't I.

Damn, I was expecting some sort of apology. Not a justification for his cheating.

I thought so too, man, but hey, he can do what he wants. It will be a while before he plays in any MP FOF leagues I think.

PackerFanatic · 10-13-2005, 11:02 AM

35 users watching and still growing...lol...

PackerFanatic · 10-13-2005, 11:02 AM

Huzzah, I have eclipsed 200 posts. I rock.

Samdari · 10-13-2005, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff061

Is there really that much uncertainty around opening up a game in Commish mode to change things when you are not the commish and then export a file based on these changes?

Some people consider anything to be not specifically outlawed in the rules to be implicitly legal, an attidtude I heard reflected over at IHOF, where everyone seems to be trusted implicitly.

One thing I found out over there is that there is a lot of variation - even among reasonable, non-cheaters, is that there is a good bit of variation in thinking of what fair play constitutes and what the expectation and definition of gentlemanly conduct should be.

It would not surprise me to find people who considered opening the game file as commish to not only be not cheating, but who expect it as par for the course. Same with simming ahead to see how a game plan would fare against a future opponent - some would see that as SOP, not cheating.

This seems pretty much clear cut case to me, but I am not surprised that someone claims they did not think it was cheating. I would not even be surprised if they thought simming ahead was not.

EDIT: Sorry to post on topic - I did not realize the thread had devolved. I have GOT to stop responding to a mid-thread post without reading the rest of the thread.

WrongWay · 10-13-2005, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PackerFanatic

I thought so too, man, but hey, he can do what he wants. It will be a while before he plays in any MP FOF leagues I think.

It is a shame though, I thought he was a good owner. A very active owner at least.

He was the owner that came up with our Computerized trading system right?

cuervo72 · 10-13-2005, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Galt

Before everyone gets put in the box, can someone tell us in the peanut gallery what exactly happened at IHOF regarding cheating and/or HA leaving? Simply pointing to some threads on the issue would be great. Thanks.

Honestly, I don't remember any HA/cheating allegations. There were Chubby/backloading conversations, Blackadar/tanking conversations, but nothing I can remember with HA, though I could be wrong.

WSUCougar · 10-13-2005, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuervo72

We're really reaching new heights now.

And if that isn't removed shortly, I will be more than happy to report it to SkyDog.

PackerFanatic · 10-13-2005, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WrongWay

It is a shame though, I thought he was a good owner. A very active owner at least.

He was the owner that came up with our Computerized trading system right?

Yes, he is.

Subby · 10-13-2005, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

And if that isn't removed shortly, I will be more than happy to report it to SkyDog.

That's not even close to what should happen.

John Galt · 10-13-2005, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Honestly, I don't remember any HA/cheating allegations. There were Chubby/backloading conversations, Blackadar/tanking conversations, but nothing I can remember with HA, though I could be wrong.

Thanks.

Then WTF is Blackie talking about? Blackie, do you care to elaborate?

QuikSand · 10-13-2005, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samdari

It would not surprise me to find people who considered opening the game file as commish to not only be not cheating, but who expect it as par for the course. Same with simming ahead to see how a game plan would fare against a future opponent - some would see that as SOP, not cheating.

I guess you learn something new every day.

Chubby · 10-13-2005, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Galt

Thanks.

Then WTF is Blackie talking about? Blackie, do you care to elaborate?

who knows, HA did pose as coolroy in an attempt to get back in the league (coolroy did fill in for another owner or two)

Anthony · 10-13-2005, 11:10 AM

regarding my leaving - IHOF is a very nice league, elite, even, but they take it personally when you leave, almost as if you're foolish for wanting to leave *them*. i enjoyed many over there, but it became impossible for me to be myself and to enjoy myself due to my getting too passionate about my team and for getting a little too involved in bashing other people's team. kinda made me not liked by almost half the league. wasn't fun after a while. i left because it wasn't fun for me. that's all. i haven't been in the league since Feb or March of '05, and i hate having to constantly talk about it, by people who are happy i'm no longer in the league or whomever. i'm past IHOF, i wish them the best. i left of my own accord, John. i tried to leave even before that, behind the scenes without much fanfare, but the commish and even a league talked me out of it because they valued my contributions. as much as i chide cthomer from time to time, i like him, and i respected him asking me to come back when i left the first time. when i decided to leave the 2nd time i didn't look back.

i don't think you'll find anyone who'll say that i cheated or bended rules at IHOF. my thing over at IHOF, as many will say, was roleplaying, i treated the players as if they were players and not formula's (which they essentially are). in fact, many will say i was a big supporter of "gentleman's rules", where things regarding fair play and no cheating shouldn't have to be spelled out - they should already be assumed.

the fact that i was so vocal about fair play and wasn't ever called out at IHOF for any rule bending makes me even more furious. of course, since i don't have many friends over at IHOF i don't think they'll rush to my defense, they might get a kick out seeing me angered. but, it is what it is.

i'm angered at myself for allowing myself to get angered over something so silly by someone who isn't as respected as he thinks he is. i apologize to the board. i accept my boxing if one is imminent. i will not apologize to blackie. he's evil.

Buzzbee · 10-13-2005, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Galt

Before everyone gets put in the box, can someone tell us in the peanut gallery what exactly happened at IHOF regarding cheating and/or HA leaving? Simply pointing to some threads on the issue would be great. Thanks.

No real cheating as far as I'm aware. There were accusations of Blackie tanking to get the top pick. However, they were accusations.

HA left because he had become such a jerk that everyone ganged up on him whenever he posted. He got tired of being the punching bag, picked up his photoshop and went home.

That's about the nuts and bolts of it, at least as I see it.

10-13-2005, 10:24 AM	#204
jeff061 Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: MA	Is there really that much uncertainty around opening up a game in Commish mode to change things when you are not the commish and then export a file based on these changes? If you have trouble categorizing that as cheating you are, to borrow from Blacky, obtuse or an idiot. __________________

10-13-2005, 10:49 AM	#212
John Galt Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Internets	WTF? Not that HA's reaction wasn't a tad over the top, but what are you talking about Blackie? It seems kind of random in this thread to just lay into HA and imply (but not explain why) that HA is a cheater. I don't know anything about IHOF and the history of cheating (other than the early Chubby actions), but your comments seem a little odd in this setting. __________________ I do mind, the Dude minds. This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man. - The Dude

10-13-2005, 10:54 AM	#221
Subby lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: sans pants	That IHOF is so fucked up. __________________ Superman was flying around and saw Wonder Woman getting a tan in the nude on her balcony. Superman said I going to hit that real fast. So he flys down toward Wonder Woman to hit it and their is a loud scream. The Invincible Man scream what just hit me in the ass!!!!! I do shit, I take pictures, I write about it: chrisshue.com

10-13-2005, 10:57 AM	#227
PackerFanatic Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Appleton, WI	lol...wow how this thread exploded. __________________ Commissioner of the RNFL

10-13-2005, 10:58 AM	#232
jeff061 Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: MA	Don't you need integrity and ethics in order for them to be slandered? __________________

10-13-2005, 10:35 AM	#207
Anthony Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Astoria, NY, USA	i don't think it's that glaring of a problem in a league that plays with no injuries. i mean, if realism was what they were going for i don't think they'd be crowing a champion once a month. cheating sucks, but it happens. the only thing that gets wasted is people's faith in the integrity of the league and perhaps time (if they're really mad and walk away). there is cheating in real life - steroids, anyone - that don't have the lynchmob that you see when someone cheats in a league with fake players and no real financial investment on the part of the owners. if having faith in your fellow owners is that important to some, many would be playing with friends and family. i don't know anyone here personally, sure, some people post in a manner that makes it easy to assume if they're honest, law abiding people. i'm sure BTK was a very nice person also. all we have, especially in elite league, to go off of is the qualty of people's posts in an anonymous message board to make a judgement on someone's character. people get up in arms, worked up in a frenzy, even, over cheating in an online game where there is no password protection or prevention of any kind. that's rather silly. i don't play in any league where i don't have faith in my commish - the one holding the keys is the only one that matters. i don't get surprised anymore when a fellow league owner is found to be cheating/pushing the limits of ethics, because, to go back to my earlier point - i don't know any of you from a stranger standing on my street corner. if cheating meant this much to most of you (and don't get me wrong, i don't condone cheating) there'd be a bigger outcry for password protection - faith in fellow owners or not.

10-13-2005, 10:44 AM	#210
digamma Torchbearer Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: On Lake Harriet	I love a good internet "you're not man enough and I'll kick your ass" threat. Been a week or ten days since we've had one of those.

10-13-2005, 10:51 AM	#215
Fonzie Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Illinois	grabs popcorn

10-13-2005, 10:52 AM	#218
Raiders Army Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Black Hole	He said eweenie. Heh heh.

10-13-2005, 10:53 AM	#219
Passacaglia Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Big Ten Country	Hey, I'll be in NYC this weekend! You guys want me to be the cameraman?

10-13-2005, 10:56 AM	#224
Raiders Army Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Black Hole	And he talked about your eweenie.

10-13-2005, 10:57 AM	#228
WrongWay Banned Join Date: Jan 2005	Backed the wrong horse on this one didn't I. Damn, I was expecting some sort of apology. Not a justification for his cheating.

10-13-2005, 10:58 AM	#231
Raiders Army Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Black Hole	33 users viewing this thread. Beats the Blacky's thread about Jim's new game to shame, eh?

10-13-2005, 10:59 AM	#234
John Galt Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Internets	Before everyone gets put in the box, can someone tell us in the peanut gallery what exactly happened at IHOF regarding cheating and/or HA leaving? Simply pointing to some threads on the issue would be great. Thanks. __________________ I do mind, the Dude minds. This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand, man. - The Dude

10-13-2005, 11:00 AM	#235
Subby lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: sans pants	Well at least there will be a silver lining to this thread after all!!! __________________ Superman was flying around and saw Wonder Woman getting a tan in the nude on her balcony. Superman said I going to hit that real fast. So he flys down toward Wonder Woman to hit it and their is a loud scream. The Invincible Man scream what just hit me in the ass!!!!! I do shit, I take pictures, I write about it: chrisshue.com

10-13-2005, 11:00 AM	#236
jeff061 Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: MA	I think the only people getting boxed should be the people hitting report post and HA. __________________

10-13-2005, 11:02 AM	#238
PackerFanatic Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Appleton, WI	35 users watching and still growing...lol... __________________ Commissioner of the RNFL

10-13-2005, 11:02 AM	#239
PackerFanatic Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Appleton, WI	Huzzah, I have eclipsed 200 posts. I rock. __________________ Commissioner of the RNFL

10-13-2005, 11:10 AM	#249
Anthony Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Astoria, NY, USA	regarding my leaving - IHOF is a very nice league, elite, even, but they take it personally when you leave, almost as if you're foolish for wanting to leave them. i enjoyed many over there, but it became impossible for me to be myself and to enjoy myself due to my getting too passionate about my team and for getting a little too involved in bashing other people's team. kinda made me not liked by almost half the league. wasn't fun after a while. i left because it wasn't fun for me. that's all. i haven't been in the league since Feb or March of '05, and i hate having to constantly talk about it, by people who are happy i'm no longer in the league or whomever. i'm past IHOF, i wish them the best. i left of my own accord, John. i tried to leave even before that, behind the scenes without much fanfare, but the commish and even a league talked me out of it because they valued my contributions. as much as i chide cthomer from time to time, i like him, and i respected him asking me to come back when i left the first time. when i decided to leave the 2nd time i didn't look back. i don't think you'll find anyone who'll say that i cheated or bended rules at IHOF. my thing over at IHOF, as many will say, was roleplaying, i treated the players as if they were players and not formula's (which they essentially are). in fact, many will say i was a big supporter of "gentleman's rules", where things regarding fair play and no cheating shouldn't have to be spelled out - they should already be assumed. the fact that i was so vocal about fair play and wasn't ever called out at IHOF for any rule bending makes me even more furious. of course, since i don't have many friends over at IHOF i don't think they'll rush to my defense, they might get a kick out seeing me angered. but, it is what it is. i'm angered at myself for allowing myself to get angered over something so silly by someone who isn't as respected as he thinks he is. i apologize to the board. i accept my boxing if one is imminent. i will not apologize to blackie. he's evil.

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