Madden 09 - The Hype Machine kicks in

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Someone earlier in the thread had mentioned their frustration at the lack of PC versions of EA games. They just announced that the PC versions of all of the sports franchises will be back next year........

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/53921

[MizzouRah]

Madden demo is up on XBL. 1.09 GB!

[MizzouRah]

I'll have some impressions later as I'm still on vacation!

[Eaglesfan27]

Much to his surprise, Bill Abner got an early copy of Madden. He was hard (but fair) on NCAA and didn't think he'd get a copy. He again has an embargo against reviews and also against "presentations of gameplay", but said he doesn't think that includes disorganized blogposts. So, he'll be giving us early impressions of the retail version of Madden over the next few days on his blog. Oh yeah, they gave him the collector's edition, so I guess there might be some impressions of Head Coach as well:


The Nut and the Feisty Weasel

[Kodos]

This will dovetail nicely with my plan to go online at lunch to update the RFL schedule.

[rowech]

Just played the demo....crappy demo in my opinion. You get to try and lead the Giants down the field on their last drive with 4th and 1 and 1:30 left...one timeout. You also get to take the Madden IQ test which is like you're playing football with Tron.

It seems good but I don't think you can tell too much from it.

[Eaglesfan27]

EA has said their rationale is they wanted to give gamers the feel of a big game and to draw in new gamers, but I suspect they did the demo that way to hide the CPU QB AI flaws. I'm looking forward to Bill's comments on how good/bad the CPU QB is in his games.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

EA has said their rationale is they wanted to give gamers the feel of a big game and to draw in new gamers, but I suspect they did the demo that way to hide the CPU QB AI flaws. I'm looking forward to Bill's comments on how good/bad the CPU QB is in his games.

I thought of that and the fact that you really don't have time to do anything with the run game if you actually try and win.

[MizzouRah]

I do like the Madden IQ test, now.. is it just a gimmick? Do players deliberately do bad, so their difficulty is lower?

Although I would just play solo, so I guess all that would matter to me is how accurate it adjusts to my skillz.

The game is so much faster than NCAA, and it should be. Running is tough and I failed the first two times because I was stuffed at the line. DOH!

Passing seems good and all the graphics, animations and such seem really well done.

Of course this doesn't really tell any of us how the full game is going to play.

That IQ test did remind me of Tron though!

[twothree]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Much to his surprise, Bill Abner got an early copy of Madden. He was hard (but fair) on NCAA and didn't think he'd get a copy. He again has an embargo against reviews and also against "presentations of gameplay", but said he doesn't think that includes disorganized blogposts. So, he'll be giving us early impressions of the retail version of Madden over the next few days on his blog. Oh yeah, they gave him the collector's edition, so I guess there might be some impressions of Head Coach as well:


The Nut and the Feisty Weasel

If this was an ECW crowd, I know what they would be chanting. Ugh...

[Terps]

I was excited to see there are new sliders, until I found out there are no sliders for the CPU because of the new 'adaptive AI.'

I hope Head Coach is good, because that just sold me on not buying Madden.

[bhlloy]

Well, this one just moved solidly into the "no chance in hell I'll be buying it" camp. I particularly like Abner's contact at EA basically admitting that the game will suck.

[RainMaker]

Wow, Abner is just thrashing this game. I just can't figure out the logic behind no CPU sliders. Why not just make the retarded new IQ feature an option since it most likely won't work. Sliders are essential to these games, I just don't get it. It's as if they have zero pulse on the gaming community. It's no wonder sales of this game have been tanking.

I'm thoroughly depressed about this. NCAA and now this. I don't know why I get myself excited for these games thinking that the light will click with them. I guess I'm just going to hope FIFA and NBA 2K don't let me down this year.

[RainMaker]

And from what I've gathered on the OS boards, this is still a David Ortiz game. The new team won't really have its footprint on the game till next year. Maybe that's just BS, but it leaves a little hope that next year the game might start down the right path. Ian is active on the OS boards and not oblivious to the comments.

[Icy]

Umm now i'm thinking on canceling my preorder and just wait a bit more for head coach. No sliders for CPU?? WTF??

[Icy]

Now I don't know what to think about a lead project manager not knowing that there are no CPU sliders in his own game:

Quote from Ian Cummings (madden lead designer)

There are in fact no CPU sliders. I discovered this myself about 2 weeks ago as well, and was kind of wondering when I should break the news. I wish I had an explanation, but I don't. There's not all that much more I can say about it...

There's one other bit of bad news that I discovered at the same time, and that is there is no custom controller configuration any more. Again, I don't really have an explanation.

PS - In the build where I was adjusting sliders, I was adjusting User INT's to zero - so the human wouldn't pick off the QB as much (since I know people were originally concerned that the CPU QB threw too many picks).

(ducks out of way of flying chairs)

So anyway - I don't know what else to say really.

[CleBrownsfan]

Dammit!!! I really wanted a 2009 football game this year!!!! No CPU slider - lmao

[Raiders Army]

Is anyone really that surprised? It took them over 3 months to patch Madden 08. If part of the development team was working on that, then they only had about 3-4 months to work on the alpha build of Madden.

edit--maybe my math is wrong, so somebody please correct me.

[KWhit]

The only way that the quality of NCAA and MAdden will improve is if people stop buying the games. And I just don't see that happening.

[CleBrownsfan]

Originally Posted by KWhit

The only way that the quality of NCAA and MAdden will improve is if people stop buying the games. And I just don't see that happening.

I also think the lack of competition is another reason for the "quality" of NCAA and Madden year after year.

[stevew]

Has the psp version historically been any good? I'll admit to being tempted by the blue psp package with Madden for 200.

[Kodos]

Looks like I'll be saving some money in August. At least NCAA is fun, even with the warts. Had a blast during two games against FOFC players last night.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by CleBrownsfan

I also think the lack of competition is another reason for the "quality" of NCAA and Madden year after year.

Sure, which is part of the reason why people continue to buy their broken games - no competing product.

[Kodos]

Things were definitely better when they had 2K to contend with. Even though I preferred the Madden gameplay over 2K back then, the competition certainly brought out the best in both games.

Stupid NFL for giving out an exclusive contract.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Sure, which is part of the reason why people continue to buy their broken games - no competing product.

Sales of the NCAA game have dropped 10%+ for 3 years straight. Madden sales have dropped 10%+ for two years straight and the early impressions from Abner all but gurantee that they will make it 3 years in a row of 10%+ drops.

So tell me what exactly indicates to you that people are continuing to buy the games?

[Eaglesfan27]

Well, Bill's comments have convinced me to cancel my preorder of Madden's Collector's Edition (which I was getting for Head Coach.) I'll wait to hear some impressions of Head Coach, but I doubt I'll be buying either one.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

So tell me what exactly indicates to you that people are continuing to buy the games?

Because even with those drops the games are still in the yearly Top Ten sales lists(at least Madden)?


There is a school of thought that there is a drop in the sales of multi-platform games so far this generation because the base of consoles of next-gen is obviously still lower than that of last-gen. There aren't a whole lot of examples of a yearly release of a title outside of the EA sports genre, so it is hard to say. If people are buying the PS2 version in much lower quantities than in the past, then that can cause a huge drop in the year to year sales figures.

[cartman]

Here's an example from the PS2 declining sales:

Madden 2002- 2.3 mil
Madden 2003- 3.18 mil
Madden 2004- 3.95 mil
Madden 2005- 4.35 mil
Madden 2006- 3.71 mil
Madden 2007- 2.8 mil
Madden 2008- 1.9 mil

Take the sales from PS3 and 360 the past couple of versions, no version for the PS3 yet has sold 1 million copies, while Madden 2007 for the Xbox360 sold 1.72 million copies and Madden 2008 sold 1.51 million.

So combined sales on the PS3 and 360 are just recently catching up to title sales for the PS2, as the PS2 is fading off into the sunset. It will be interesting to see what the sales numbers look like as the base of next-gen consoles grows closer to what the PS2 had at its peak. Most games would kill to be able to claim a yearly sales figure of 1 million+.

[Anthony]

shit, if i cancel my preorder of Madden (i don't normally do preorders, but i had $5 on me so i said what the heck) then what game is coming out in Q3 that is worth it?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

Here's an example from the PS2 declining sales:

Madden 2002- 2.3 mil
Madden 2003- 3.18 mil
Madden 2004- 3.95 mil
Madden 2005- 4.35 mil
Madden 2006- 3.71 mil
Madden 2007- 2.8 mil
Madden 2008- 1.9 mil

Take the sales from PS3 and 360 the past couple of versions, no version for the PS3 yet has sold 1 million copies, while Madden 2007 for the Xbox360 sold 1.72 million copies and Madden 2008 sold 1.51 million.

So combined sales on the PS3 and 360 are just recently catching up to title sales for the PS2, as the PS2 is fading off into the sunset. It will be interesting to see what the sales numbers look like as the base of next-gen consoles grows closer to what the PS2 had at its peak. Most games would kill to be able to claim a yearly sales figure of 1 million+.

The declining sales figures are overall across all platforms. Certainly, EA and its investors have voiced increasing concern over sales figures on their football franchises. The attach ratio on both the Madden and NCAA numbers is way down as well on all consoles, which takes into account the number of consoles in the market. Overall figures don't tell the full story in this case, though they do show a disturbing trend if you're an EA stockholder.

[MizzouRah]

I still think I'll get some gaming value out of NCAA, but I'm saddened by Madden and I hate to think what big issues there will be with Head Coach.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by Anthony

shit, if i cancel my preorder of Madden (i don't normally do preorders, but i had $5 on me so i said what the heck) then what game is coming out in Q3 that is worth it?

NHL 09

[CleBrownsfan]

This brings some light to the CPU sliders:

hxxp://www.operationsports.com/forums/madden-nfl-football/259558-more-info-cpu-sliders-ea.html

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Anthony

shit, if i cancel my preorder of Madden (i don't normally do preorders, but i had $5 on me so i said what the heck) then what game is coming out in Q3 that is worth it?

I'm heading out to lunch now and putting the money towards Spore which got glowing impressions from everyone I read who saw it at E3.

[KWhit]

serious question:

Why do people pre-order anything? I have never had any problems finding a big-time game on release day.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by KWhit

serious question:

Why do people pre-order anything? I have never had any problems finding a big-time game on release day.

You forgot the "that aren't on the Wii" bit. I still can't find a copy of Wii Fit.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by KWhit

serious question:

Why do people pre-order anything? I have never had any problems finding a big-time game on release day.

I pre-ordered because I wanted the collector's edition for the inclusion of Head Coach. I always knew I could cancel if I heard bad info that persuaded me I no longer wanted either one. If I don't want a collector's edition for some reason, I don't pre-order.

On a side note: Anyone know why I got an empty box with my Spore pre-order?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Anthony

shit, if i cancel my preorder of Madden (i don't normally do preorders, but i had $5 on me so i said what the heck) then what game is coming out in Q3 that is worth it?

FIFA came a long way last year and comes out in October. I'm not a soccer fan but had a blast with last year's game.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I'm heading out to lunch now and putting the money towards Spore which got glowing impressions from everyone I read who saw it at E3.

I saw that 30 minute video a year or so ago of them demo'ing the game and it looked amazing. I'll put my Madden money toward that instead. Apparently they had a spore creator online for the last few months and all the designs by people will be in the game. 2 million unique creatures.

It looks amazing. I'll throw my money toward that game, tired of this EA Sports bullshit.

[spleen1015]

You'll get more than your money's worth from Spore.

[TroyF]

I'll also pass on Madden this year.

Not worth my time. What will I buy?

Well, I still have some of GTAIV to go through. I still have some OOTP and FM to play.

I'll then get Spore, Too Human, one of the hockey games, maybe an RPG I've never played. (still never played the oblivion add ons) and then wait for my favorite game every year. NBA2K9.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Well, I still have some of GTAIV to go through.

I'm jealous. I equate it to anyone who hasn't yet seen The Usual Suspects. I'd love to experience it again for the first time.

[Calis]

Sounds like another year of NFL 2k5 for me.

[MizzouRah]

NHL 09 is my only pre-order at the moment.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Finally a positive post from Abner on Madden. Basically states that the head-to-head game isn't that bad. By having human players on either side of the ball, it removes some of the AI issues in the game.

The Nut and the Feisty Weasel: Madden. Remember Madden?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by cartman

Because even with those drops the games are still in the yearly Top Ten sales lists(at least Madden)?


There is a school of thought that there is a drop in the sales of multi-platform games so far this generation because the base of consoles of next-gen is obviously still lower than that of last-gen. There aren't a whole lot of examples of a yearly release of a title outside of the EA sports genre, so it is hard to say. If people are buying the PS2 version in much lower quantities than in the past, then that can cause a huge drop in the year to year sales figures.

You can't really compare Madden to other games in the Top 10. Most of those other games don't come in with as much overhead right off the bat.

Think about this, before anyone does a single thing on a Madden game, before one penny is spent on development and marketing, EA is in a massive hole. They pay roughly $60 million a year for the rights to the NFL/NFLPA. They pay $60 million for the rights to ESPN (although this is spread across all their games). I'm assuming John Madden's contract with EA is pretty strong. Right there the game could be looking at an $80 million dollar hole right off the bat. There really isn't another game that has those conditions to develop under. I'd imagine they've had to make drastic cuts in their development.

As for sales going down and reasons, I still don't think those are good excuses. This is a company that has no competition now. They don't have to worry about bargain shoppers picking up the $20 2K game. If someone wants to play football, they have to play Madden.

Factor in that I'd guess that there are more consoles in homes than there was 5 years ago. I'd imagine there are many homes with multiple consoles with people who purchase games under multiple consoles. As well as the fact that the NFL is the most popular sport in the country by a mile. Still, with all these things going in their favor, they are seeing massive drops in sales.

The vibe I get from most in the gaming community is that of just being tired with their act. To even think about not buying a Madden game was taboo to most sports gamers. Now many of us are actually making the decision to pass on the game without blinking.

With the influx of quality games for the next gen systems coming into fold, I think the football franchises are in deep shit. I would not be surprised to see a 20% drop for NCAA and a similar 10% drop in Madden.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Finally a positive post from Abner on Madden. Basically states that the head-to-head game isn't that bad. By having human players on either side of the ball, it removes some of the AI issues in the game.

The Nut and the Feisty Weasel: Madden. Remember Madden?

Seems that's how most EA games are going. Don't bother with the computer AI and just put a lot of belles and whistles on the gaem. It's disappointing because I'm not an online gamer. I will play people I know once in awhile, but when it comes to sports, playing strangers is just an annoying experience.

[CleBrownsfan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Seems that's how most EA games are going. Don't bother with the computer AI and just put a lot of belles and whistles on the gaem. It's disappointing because I'm not an online gamer. I will play people I know once in awhile, but when it comes to sports, playing strangers is just an annoying experience.

I agree - I was playing someone last night with NCAA and what a joke this player was. He nevr punted the damn ball! lol

[Eaglesfan27]

Looks like Greg was right on the money about the accelerated clock possibly being added via a DLC. If they actually release these in September, I'll rent the game at that time. Until then, I'm not going to even bother trying to evaluate it. Here is a post on OS from their senior producer which details patch and DLC plans:


Evening,

There's been a lot of discussion around rosters and patches so i wanted to go ahead and post an update.

Rosters
For those that manged to get an early copy, you may have noticed that a roster update was recently made available. Many of you also noticed that Brett Favre was listed as the 2nd QB for the Packers. This roster was posted up as a final test of our roster update capability. We're actually prepping a more final roster update that should be available on 8/11.

As for our roster update frequency... Our current plan is to update rosters about every two weeks. This could change based on major roster movement but expect us to drop rosters on an average of twice a month through the Super Bowl.

Patch
Yes, I'm finally going to discuss the state and details of the patch.

Regarding the patch status... Yes we submitted a patch to MS and Sony about a week ago. They are currently going through certification and all indications point to them going live some time next week. Please understand that it's very easy for issues with the patch to delay the release of the patch. For example, if MS finds a new bug with the patch, it would easily be delayed by 2 weeks. We're hopeful the patch will drop on or around 8/14.

What's in the patch?

There's a number of changes in this patch. Most would never be noticed by the average consumer but some were targeted at improving the experience as quickly as we could.

1. Changed default quarter length of online leagues to 5 minutes.
2. Solved a very rare stability issue that occured when using a couple of playbooks.
3. Eliminated a button mashing glitch during high latency online games.
4. Eliminated a stability issue that sometimes occured while viewing the player HUB in online leagues.
5. Fixed a tricky disc eject glitch that occured at specific points of online games.
6. Kick Return Tuning - made improvements to help reduce frequent long kick returns.
7. Safety Tuning - eliminated issue where safeties in deep zone coverage would sometimes not react to a run to their side.
8. The game skill slider for interceptions was tuned to amplify it's affect.

What about some of the other early feedback on the game? Keep reading, we're not done.

Patch #2 & DLC
Now that some details for patch #1 have been discussed, it's important to note that we're not done. We think it's very important to continue to improve the game even after it's release. We're actually very happy with the non-patched product but having the ability to patch the game to make it the ultimate experience is fantastic capability that we definately want to use.

We're already hard at work on the 2nd patch and are also evaluating releasing a FREE DLC. Here's a sneak preview of what you might expect in future updates.

Patch #2 Possibilities
Please understand this list is under construction and won't be finalized until we've received more feedback on the final game from the community.
1. Ghost Juking OOB fix - aka CPU players running out of bounds
2. CPU Accuracy tuning
3. Amplify the field degredation effect (the system is currently working but is hidden by some of our late added post effects)
4. Other post-release community feedback

DLC Possibilities
The same warning comes with this one. We're still evaluating these changes and are working hard to get them out as quick as possible.
1. Accelerated Clock
2. CPU Sliders (you would have the all new human sliders as well as a brand new screen of CPU sliders)
3. Legacy Gen Controller Config
4. Madden Community Gamerpics (a variety of gamerpics that will show what community you belong to. make sure your community managers know you want an OS gamerpic.)


We're targeting a mid-September release for patch#2 and the DLC but will give constant updates and screenshots as we progress.

I look forward to seeing all of your very constructive feedback next week when the game is released and will do my best to answer additional questions here.

Phil

[CleBrownsfan]

What is DLC?