04-19-2009, 07:41 PM | #201 | |
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Will do. Thanks! |
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04-19-2009, 09:32 PM | #202 |
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Just finished my first real vault with this character. Was a bit worried about what was in there thanks to my ring of fate, but really the only things that concerned me were a mind flayer and a mummy which I took out with my Blue Dragon Scale Mail lightning attack and a Daemoness of Slaaneeth, which wasn't tough really. Had some breeders in there which thankfully never got going much. Picked up the third Chaos spell book, and a couple artifacts in it, the Cloak of Thorongil and the Gloves Cammithrim. Whew. Vaults are always a scary prospect, so you gotta take the time to prepare-go through your items and spells so you refresh your memory on what they can do, and find the best place to attack the vault from if you have multiple places and more importantly the best place to fight what comes out of the vault. Was able to use fist of force on this one to dissolve one piece of wall so they could only come out one at a time.
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04-20-2009, 07:45 AM | #203 |
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Still alive, but I'm going to post my character dump as I don't think I'll have much time to play tonight. Almost, but not quite, at lvl 31. I found a phenomenal vault my last trip with tons of stat pots, magic devices I'd not seen before, and the like, but also filled with some tough baddies. The Stormbringer that I killed took quite a while and a lot of scrolls of dimension door (my favorite spell in all of Z). Unfortunately, I had to leave it behind because I had no way to deal with an undead beholder that chased me all over (capable of slowing me to -10 spd, brain smashing, mind blanking, summoning powerful undead). Fortunately I had a good saving throw or I would've been toast. The sword I got from Stormbringer is awesome, but I can't use it as a swap weapon since it's heavily cursed and scrolls of *remove curse* are both rare and overly expensive. I dove down much farther than I would've ever normally gone if I was trying to keep my char alive in order to try and win (I lacked tons of resists, no res blindness was probably my biggest weakness, fortunately I didn't come across nether breathers).
All in all, I really like this version of Z because unlike other bands, it seems like getting resistances, speed, and just good items overall is far more challenging than these games typically are, which makes finding a really great item more rewarding. Code:
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04-20-2009, 09:13 AM | #204 |
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Great job there JAG. I agree with you about Z+ being more challenging than most *bands when it comes to getting resistances, speed etc. Heck it took a while before I got my first non demon-patron provided ego item. I was still using a regular cloak until I got that artifact one in the vault. Looks like that Blade of Chaos will be awesome if you can get it uncursed.
I also find your spell choices very interesting, going the specialized route on a few spells leaving quite a few spells untaken. How do you think that's worked out for you? Well done! I'm still going to play my character a bit today, but very unlikely I will get into the 30's. Last edited by Thomkal : 04-20-2009 at 09:13 AM. |
04-20-2009, 11:11 AM | #205 | ||
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Quote:
The curse is a bummer, for this competition, the drain exp is a bummer as well, and I need a source for res invisible (maybe a ring of see invisible since I haven't found a decent item to provide it. Even better would probably be a helm of seeing with res blind, see invisible, and telepathy if I found it in a shop). But clearly it'd be a huge step up from my current weapon even if I lose 4-5 to strength / dex / con in the transition. Quote:
Fairly well I think. Ideally I would've liked area of effect spells that do lots of an unresistable damage type, failing that I would've liked spells that do a lot of unresistable damage to a single monster. Unfortunately there weren't many or any spells that met those requirements. Magic Missile and Mana Burst were my bread and butter distance spells. I learned Wonder as I was fighting some unique (king of the neiblungs I think) hoping to get some damage type that would beat him, but never used it since. Blink and trap destruction were used as they would be typically. Fist of Force was almost entirely for tunneling. None of the other damage spells in the first two books were all that tempting to me based on what I was looking for. Specializing was just a way to get more damage and a slightly lower mana cost out of them. Last edited by JAG : 04-20-2009 at 11:11 AM. |
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04-20-2009, 12:34 PM | #206 | |
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I don't find myself using my area of effect spells that often thanks to my Blue Dragon Scale Mail and a Chaos-Warrior's dream Rod-a Rod of Havoc that does a random attack. But Mana Burst, Chain Lightning, Fist of Force, Sonic Boom have all come in handy at times, and I'd be using them a lot if I didn't have the armor and rod. I've stayed away from Wonder because of the bad effects it can have. I use Fire Bolt a lot as my upgraded magic missile when I need to take out a potentially dangerous monster, like a summoner, quickly. Immolation can be good too as a little extra damage against the large mobs. Can't wait to get Fire Ball and possibly Beam of Energy when I level next. I'm not sure what the spells do in the Armageddon Tome do, but I'm betting they are all pretty nasty. |
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04-20-2009, 01:49 PM | #207 |
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Maybe I should've given a dragon scale mail a shot. In most variants I just sell them in favor of artifact armor, but given that those are very difficult to find in Z+ (I still haven't found better than that artifact rag) your idea is pretty reasonable.
In the original Z, the highest chaos spells were extremely nasty. Lots and lots of unresistable ball / beam damage, maybe even a 'hit all monsters in sight' one. The other reason I've stayed away from some of the higher level spells is because the fail rates are still through the roof and chaos has a chance of something nasty happening if you fail. Anyway, there wasn't really a good reason to stay away from the other spells you mentioned since the slots weren't being used anyway. I guess my thinking was they couldn't help against the monsters I couldn't handle in other ways, but looking back it might've made the going quicker through some sets of monsters I was able to dispatch eventually anyway. |
04-20-2009, 04:09 PM | #208 | |
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*Shrug* You're still alive and Level 31, so your spell choices are working for you. The area of effect spells work for me cause unless I find something to cure a mutation or get some speed items, I'm at -2 speed. The pack mobs I'm facing right now-wolves, white wolves, war boars, hounds etc, love to run away from me and then catch back up when I turn and go another way. AOE spells help take them out easier for me. Dragon scale mails do seem to be more valuable in this version, at least so far. I would tend to sell them too because at the level you usually find them, you are looking for armor with high resists and sustains which a lot of the dragon mails don't have. But finding it as early as did has been a godsend... er I mean demon patronsend. It'll be a tough decision when I find some armor that offers more resists and sustains. |
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04-20-2009, 04:58 PM | #209 |
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Just about to hit level 26, which is likely as far as I will get with the comp. Just found a Two-Handed Sword of Sharpness in the dungeon-they have a chance of doing additional damage, then it checks again and again to do even more damage until it fails the check. Sweet.
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04-20-2009, 05:09 PM | #210 | |
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I'll post my ill-fated character I gave up on after a fit of pique at Balo tonight. At least he didn't die.
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04-20-2009, 05:10 PM | #211 |
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I'm closing in on 25. I just haven't had the time to pour into it. I finally found a *remove curse*, and affordable to boot, so I can take my weapon off now for something better...unfortunately nothing better is coming along now...gah...gonna try to get to 25, maybe 26 by tonight.
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04-20-2009, 06:51 PM | #212 | |
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yay Tasan, glad you got that *remove curse* at last! |
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04-20-2009, 08:29 PM | #213 |
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Well just hit level 26-hello fireball! Likely to be as far as I get tonight, so here's my character dump:
Code:
Last edited by Thomkal : 04-20-2009 at 09:51 PM. |
04-20-2009, 08:45 PM | #214 |
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Well, this is probably all I'm going to get to play tonight. Made it to level 25, and a good bit towards level 26. My cloak is pretty cool, but it really frustrated me when I got it. I had just laid out 20k gold for a nice elven cloak, then went down to do a quest. The guy I had to kill for the quest was carrying the cloak you see on me. I only got 2500 gold back for my elven cloak. GAH
Anyway, here I am: Code:
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04-20-2009, 09:01 PM | #215 |
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All in all Balo was pretty nice to Duinath III. raised all my stats four or five times, Gifted me with free action gauntlets when I was beginning to need to find some, some pretty helpful mutations early on that I was using regularly-sniff monsters and light area until I got the Phial. And of course that wonderful Blue Dragon Scale Mail early on. Gave me a couple bad mutations-the -2 to Speed and the vulnerable to all basic elements, but worked around them pretty nicely for the most part.
Biggest scare came when I went into the baby green dragon quest. I had found a Defender weapon that had resist poison on it, but didnt wield it when I went in. I landed one square away from the "baby" who turned out to be named and thanks to my -2 speed breathed on me, hitting me for more than half of my hit points at the time. I ported to another part of the level and then recalled not wanting to risk it with such a good character. Now that this comp is over, I can go back and try it. I'm curious what everyone thought of the town quests and wilderness, did you like them? I didn't travel too far past the starter town. Not being familiar with this wilderness, I didn't want to die just looking around. So I can do that now too. I think artifact drops need to be reworked a bit and unique drops. I barely got anything useful from the uniques, and none of my artifacts came from uniques-found two in the same vault and the Phial just laying on the floor. My favorite item? You might think it was the Blue Dragon Scale Mail, but that Amulet of Protection from Evil no doubt saved me from a lot of hits as it repelled uniques as well as dragons, undead, etc. That Rod of Havoc that dropped off a dark elven priest in the wilderness was pretty neat too. |
04-20-2009, 09:05 PM | #216 |
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So right now it looks like Mali is the leader with a Level 32 character, with JAG just behind at 31. Then me at 26, and Tasan at 25. If only I had been able to keep one of my earlier Duinath's alive.
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04-20-2009, 09:07 PM | #217 |
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Heh at your cloak story Tasan, I hate when that happens. A magical Cloak was the last thing I found out of all my armor, which is very odd actually because a good cloak is usually one of the first things you find in most angband variants. Couldn't even find one in a store.
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04-20-2009, 09:11 PM | #218 |
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Thomkal, could you wrap your character dump in [ code ] tags to make it easier to read?
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04-20-2009, 09:42 PM | #219 |
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Good job there Tasan, some advice if you continue on with the character-
1-get things to sustain your stats as soon as possible 2-look for things to raise the stats below 20. 3-good on getting the elemental resists and poison and free action. I'd work on finding something to see invisible. You have hold life though so perhaps not as crucial. Resist Fear and Blindness would be good to get soon too. 4-The Halberd is nice, but you can do a lot better-something that gives a plus to your stats and sustains them, some resists, some elemental damage. 5-Work on Enchanting your armor up as your armor class is on the low side. 6-find out what hidden power your gauntlets and chaotic morning star have. The Morning star might be a better weapon for you depending on what the hidden power is. 7-carry a second copy of your spellbooks just in case one gets burned up/stolen. 8-Try to knock your healing stuff down to just one type to free up inventory space. Potions of Healing heal 300 hp's, which you are approaching so stock up on them if you haven't already. 9-your carrying a lot of detect stuff around-try to narrow it down to free up inventory space. A Rod of Trap Location would be nice, a Rod of Detection even nicer but hard to find. Rings that sustain a stat don't do you any good in your inventory so store them at home/sell. 10-No missile weapon? Yeah Chaos Warriors aren't very good with them, but if you are out of mana or blinded, its nice to have a missile weapon as a backup to something not in hand to hand range. That Long Bow of Velocity would be pretty sweet to have in a moment of need. 11-Lot of Hounds there you were fighting at the end. Monster pit? Try taking them out with your area of effect spells and Immolation on. The hounds only get nastier on the way down so either try to take them out en masse or find a place where only one can attack at a time. Seems like a lot of criticism, but you are doing well really, these will just improve your chances of surviving. Good job! |
04-20-2009, 09:50 PM | #220 |
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04-20-2009, 10:08 PM | #221 | |
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Woo-hoo! When it's official, I'll post a thread to discuss the next one - I'd like to stay in Z+Angband but I have a couple different race/class combos I'd like to get some opinions on.
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04-20-2009, 10:13 PM | #222 |
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Code:
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04-20-2009, 10:28 PM | #223 | ||||||||||||
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No problem, thanks for the great info!
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04-20-2009, 10:49 PM | #224 | |
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It's winner's choice so Z+Angband is fine. You might want to wait a week or so before starting the next one to let people decompress a bit, and catch up on things they put off so they could play this crazy game. Unless of course everybody wants to start the next one right away |
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04-20-2009, 10:56 PM | #225 | |
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No no, for sure, there will be some delay before starting it - a little discussion about what might be nice in terms of race/class and we can start at some point down the line. I need to decompress myself some.
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04-20-2009, 11:02 PM | #226 |
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Ooof Path, that is indeed some bad luck. That "epic" battle with a green naga illustrates how much you are struggling with this guy. Why didn't you use any spells on it? A shovel will help you get at that pesky ore a lot easier.
Tough to comment on the dump given your bad luck, but by looking at your mutations of wings and a beak and the zapping of your stats, its obvious Balo was preparing your body for a transformation into a Giant Chicken! Any question/advice I can give you off the dump? Last edited by Thomkal : 04-20-2009 at 11:04 PM. |
04-20-2009, 11:03 PM | #227 |
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And its official-MALI WINS!!!! Congrats Mali and thanks to all who participated-feel free to post those dumps so we can laugh...er I mean help with any problems you might have had.
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04-20-2009, 11:15 PM | #228 | |
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-yeah those undead masses can be a real pain-attack from a distance when you can, but its tough when they start breeding. Potions of Boldness will also help against fear attacks. You worked well with what you had available to you so guess I shouldn't criticize too much I ended up having to use arrows on them just recently cause they had bred so much and I ran out of mana trying to get rid of them. So missiles do come in handy at times with a chaos warrior, but yeah I sometimes questioned whether I should keep them on my character too. -okay I'll cut you some slack on the halberd given your struggles to get it uncursed. And its very hard to give up stuff that can help you, but if you don't you end up with something like 4 empty inventory slots when you hit the dungeon, lol! |
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04-21-2009, 12:12 AM | #229 | |
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Yeah, the shovel thing is just a bad habit -- I don't like filling up that extra inventory spot and when I've got a relatively heavy weapon I just tend to hack away at the walls. By that time I think I had a limit of 5 magic points and a 20% fail chance on all of them. Seemed more reliable to just hack away. I picked up those statues because I saw one in the black market, but what do they do?
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04-21-2009, 06:05 AM | #230 | |
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Congrats Malificent!
a) a Chaos Spellbook [Armageddon Tome] It cannot be harmed by the elements. You found it in a vault at 850'. You lucky sob Thomkal... Quote:
I'm kind of mixed on this. I did think it was frustrating not getting anything useful from killing uniques as that used to be a good part of the joy of killing them. On the other hand, I kind of liked that artifacts were rare but not completely unobtainable. I was also surprised how useful money was in this variant when it usually has little to no purpose after you hit lvl 20. All in all it does a number of things surprisingly well. |
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04-21-2009, 07:03 AM | #231 | |
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well I thought the statues did nothing, but then I found a statue store in another game I'm playing, so maybe they do do something? And restart Duinath and hope for better luck |
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04-21-2009, 07:06 AM | #232 | |
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well not so lucky cause I never got to use any of the spells in it for the comp LOL. But yeah it was pretty sweet getting that and the two artifacts in that one vault. I agree with you on liking that artifacts are rare, I would just like it so that they are slightly less rare and unique drops are better overall. I don't mind the occasional normal item or nothing at all, but it gets old after a while. And yeah money is very well handled in this game-having all those big towns with the multitude of stores certainly helps spend that hard-earned gold. |
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04-21-2009, 07:14 AM | #233 |
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Ok, so my thoughts for the potential characters for the next comp. I tried to pick some options that would give us some different play experiences from the Chaos Warrior.
A. Half-Giant Warrior This one is interesting in that they are an easy starter - they get lots of hit dice, lots of strength/con and only have a 50% XP penalty - levels will be quickly gained. But no spellbooks and they'll struggle with magic items, which will make for a tougher mid-end game. B. Hobbit Rogue (Arcane) This one is a chance to use a sling/ranged weapon regularly and focus some on stealth and backstabbing. You get the Arcane school of magic, so you get a lot of useful spells, but no super powerful ones. With the rogue, it really requires some forethought - checking out a room before you enter it, getting experience from traps, making sure to take out creatures with your ranged weapons rather than rushing in. C. Klackon Monk (Nature) Two things make this an interesting choice. First, no weapons - it's all hand to hand, with your power increasing as you increase in level. Also, your armor is limited - you can't wear very much or you lose a lot of your attack capability. Your natural armor increases very rapidly though. Also, klackons increase their natural speed every 10 levels, as do monks, so you eventually will become very naturally fast. Nature spells have a nice mix, although the offensive stuff doesn't kick in until later in the game. D. Dark Elf Mage (Sorcery/Conjuration) Playing a pure mage is sort of the opposite of the warrior. You've got low hit points and next to zero melee or ranged ability. And the first level where you don't have an offensive spell makes for an interesting challenge. But if you can make it to the mid levels where your spells start to really flourish, a mage can be a total powerhouse. I picked Sorcery/Conjuration because the combo is a nice mix of defensive and offensive spells (that included magic missile) that was something different from the chaos spells we were just using. So, weigh in with what you think would be interesting/fun to play. I'm really open to all 4 possibilities, which is why I want some opinions.
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04-21-2009, 08:51 AM | #234 |
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I'm fine with whatever you decide.
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04-21-2009, 10:32 AM | #235 |
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I'll play whatever Mali, but my comments about each:
Half-Giant Warrior-My least favorite. I just don't find Warriors very interesting, especially after just playing a warrior type who had other options. Hobbit Rogue-As mentioned in the thread, I'm playing one of these now, and they are like the opposite of Chaos Warriors. Chaos Warriors barely used a missile weapon unless they lucked into a good one, Rogues thrive on them, especially a sling for our hobbit here. Warriors fight hand to hand, Rogues should try to avoid it at least till they get a good weapon and their fighting skills improve. Chaos Warriors had some powerful spells to fall back on-Rogues focus more on detection, escape, and resists. Hardly any attack spells in arcane. They are a lot more fun than I expected, who knew you'd be looking forward to finding a magical sling/sling ammo? My guy has sorcery as his spell realm though, not sure how much play the arcane spells would get with this comp. Klackon Monk-Monk is another character class I tend to avoid. Not being able to use a lot of the weapons and armor makes it less fun for me. But I'd be willing to try this one. I just tested one before posting this-I was killed by a novice ranger outside of town before I went in the dungeon. They only start out as Fair in fighting skills which makes me worry about the early survivability chances which likely means lots of restarts for the comp. Dark Elf Mage-Likely lots of restarts on this guy too. Just did a character that used spells a lot, so would like to try a character that doesn't rely on them as much. Again I'll play any, but would rank the rogue and monk higher on my interest level than the other two. |
04-21-2009, 10:33 AM | #236 |
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Yeah I'm all for whatever you decide too. I find the mage interesting. I have tried a couple experimental mages and have to say I cant get them beyond level 1 yet. So it would be a definite fun challenge.
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04-21-2009, 11:07 AM | #237 |
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I haven't played this (or any of its predecessors) prior to seeing this thread, so I am up for anything. Given that my Chaos-Warrior could never get past 11th level (found too many places I shouldn't go), I am certain I won't provide much in the way of competition - but then again, I am still figuring out most of the nuances of the game.
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04-21-2009, 11:19 AM | #238 |
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Yes, mages would require multiple restarts almost certainly before you get one going - definitely more of a challenge.
I'm running a Klackon monk currently that is up to lev 20 - I think they are survivable - they get 12 hit dice, which means lots of HP and they get nice AC very quickly (mine is currently at AC 90). But I think I'm leaning towards rogue or mage. Probably rogue, maybe with Sorcery instead of Arcane - I've never really used the Sorcery spellset much - how's it work out in practice?
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04-21-2009, 12:36 PM | #239 | |
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My first serious successful character in Ztk was a rogue with Sorcery. I can't remember too much in the way of details except that I loved dimension door. As I remember, Sorcery doesn't give you any spells that damage, but the utility spells (detect, teleport, identify, haste, etc...) are awesome. |
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04-21-2009, 12:50 PM | #240 | |
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The Arcane spells aren't bad and a lot will help the rogue, but all of their spellbooks are available to purchase-nothing like finding one of the two special books like I did with Armageddon Tome with my Chaos-Warrior. Sorcery just seems more like a natural fit though with a rogue-lots of detects and then identifies, ways to escape, and ways to deal with monsters (confuse, sleep, slow) to give you an advantage if you do have to fight hand to hand. There may be another option however-illusion magic. The Z+ developer created it for the game, so you'd have to think it fits pretty well with the game as a whole. Never tried it though, and looking at the spell lists I'm not sure its a good fit for a rogue as the sorcery realm. Hey you could have a comp where the player gets to create their own hobbit rogue deciding which spell realm to use. |
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04-21-2009, 01:13 PM | #241 |
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04-21-2009, 01:36 PM | #242 | |
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I like having the idea of having everyone starting from the same beginning point - that way we know we all had the same advantages/disadvantages with starting stats, gold, wilderness, quests, etc. With my Klackon monk, I'm learning about a bad town/wilderness layout the hard way. I got put in a fairly normal starting town...but the wilderness outside was heavy duty. For example, I wandered about 10 spaces out, and there was an ogre in the wilderness right there. The nearest other towns were a long distance away and none of their store selections was good. It really slowed me down at the beginning. But, what I could do is create five default variants - one for each of the schools of magic available to the rogue and people could pick whichever one they wanted to run.
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04-21-2009, 01:42 PM | #243 |
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hey that sounds like a plan Mali...and I see you in the thread cuervo-care to play in the next one?
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04-21-2009, 03:16 PM | #244 | |
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That's a cool idea, although if I were you I would limit it to 2-3 options. The downside could be, as you pointed out with some of your testing above, that the starting positions could be drastically different and thus the difficulty might not be the same between characters. |
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04-21-2009, 03:28 PM | #245 |
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Yeah, probably right, so maybe stick with Sorcery and Conjuration - Conjuration is nice in that it has some limited healing and offensive capabilities that Sorcery doesn't have.
So, the Burglar (Sorcery) or the Gambler (Conjuration). I think I'll go with Sorcery - see if I can live with out the offensive spellcasting - get all my burst magic from rods and such. So, start next Monday?
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04-21-2009, 03:31 PM | #246 | |
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works for me |
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04-21-2009, 05:56 PM | #247 |
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I'm in.
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04-21-2009, 09:43 PM | #248 |
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in
I'd prefer we all start the same though, like what has been said, there are just waaaaay too many things that can be different between two starts.
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2011 Golden Scribes winner for best Interactive Dynasty Last edited by Tasan : 04-21-2009 at 09:45 PM. |
04-22-2009, 10:26 AM | #249 |
High School JV
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Kennewick WA
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Yeah I am totally in. I agree though that we should have just one start. Seems more natural for a competition like this.
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04-22-2009, 10:28 AM | #250 |
College Starter
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Houston, or there about
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Oh my input on character classes are the Monk or Rogue. Those both seem pretty interesting. I always loved building up a monk in Bard's Tale. They would get absolutely nasty at high levels.
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2011 Golden Scribes winner for best Interactive Dynasty |
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