NFL "Teams Behaving Badly" Thread: 2015

[B & B]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Can't believe this thread is almost 5 pages. Did someone feed it after midnight? Get it wet?

This was literally all the media talked about yesterday.

Did you not turn on a TV or listen to any sports radio on Wednesday?


55 minutes of an hour were spent on this topic and the possible punishments/tarnishing of the NFL shield. Not a surprise that it took off again here.

[jeff061]

So stupid.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by jeff061

So stupid...

... because it's my team.

[jeff061]

I may not have posted as much if it wasn't my team, but I'd consider it just as stupid.

If I hated that team I'd still think it was stupid, but I'd probably take some pleasure in the situation anyways.

[Kodos]

Belichick to Address Media Amid "Deflategate" Controversy | NBC Connecticut

[Ben E Lou]

A few comments from reading some here...

1. I can't imagine that Belichick would need to order something like this. I'm sure Brady knew that his coach would approve and wouldn't have had to bother asking.

2. It's hilarious how people who seem to like to pride themselves on disdaining "bad guys" and only liking "good guys" are falling all over themselves to minimize and make excuses.

3. They probably don't deserve a huge punishment. I'm guessing that this is one of those things that just gets a wink usually. I've personally observed "ball shenanigans" at even the high school level.

4. Having said the above, any non-Patriot fan rooting for little/no punishment is a fool. Football is entertainment. And watching the reaction after a major punishment of NE for something like this would be highly entertaining.

[Kodos]

Oh, I'm rooting for the nuclear option.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

A few comments from reading some here...

1. I can't imagine that Belichick would need to order something like this. I'm sure Brady knew that his coach would approve and wouldn't have had to bother asking.

2. It's hilarious how people who seem to like to pride themselves on disdaining "bad guys" and only liking "good guys" are falling all over themselves to minimize and make excuses.

3. They probably don't deserve a huge punishment. I'm guessing that this is one of those things that just gets a wink usually. I've personally observed "ball shenanigans" at even the high school level.

4. Having said the above, any non-Patriot fan rooting for little/no punishment is a fool. Football is entertainment. And watching the reaction after a major punishment of NE for something like this would be highly entertaining.

Cosign!

[Butter]

Originally Posted by B & B

Did you not turn on a TV or listen to any sports radio on Wednesday?

You are correct! I did not. Though I was at a BW3 and watched some silent college hoops last night.

This just seems like the lamest sports scandal in recent memory.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

You are correct! I did not. Though I was at a BW3 and watched some silent college hoops last night.

This just seems like the lamest sports scandal in recent memory.

+1

I'm not sure I've ever seen a more non-story. It's like a sports soap opera.

[Arles]

I don't think this is a major deal, but they did break the rules after the balls were inspected. My penalty?

1. Lose $1 mil of cap space for each deflated ball for the next 2 years.
2. Lose a 3rd round pick
3. Forced to do hard knocks the next 2 seasons

In all seriousness, the fix for this issue is simple. Let each team monkey with the balls for as long as they like up to about 1-2 hours before the games. Then, each team submits their 12 balls to get inspected by the refs. If any ball is deemed not in spec (not between the PSI range, weight range or whatever), it gets replaced by a brand new ball at 13 PSI. After the inspection, the 12 balls go to a league run person to watch the balls until the game starts. Then, teams have to decide whether really pushing the envelope to nearly under 12.5 PSI is worth having to deal with a new, unscuffed ball.

Seems pretty simple: the key is not letting teams have possession of the balls between inspection and before the game. I'm at a loss at why the league allows this. It's like having a weigh in for a fight 2 months before the actual fight - then acting shocked when one fighter is 10 pounds over his fighting weight the night of the contest.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

1. I can't imagine that Belichick would need to order something like this. I'm sure Brady knew that his coach would approve and wouldn't have had to bother asking.

Just saw some clips from a presser with BB. He's denying that he knew anything. Makes complete sense to me.

[Arles]

The league has shown (with bountygate and the cap penalties for the Skins/Cowboys), that a head coach "not knowing" isn't a defense. If the Patriot footballs were made "out of compliance" after inspection - it's on the head coach to know: ignorance is not a defense.

If the Seahawks wide receivers all come out with stickem on their hands for the super bowl, but Pete Carroll doesn't know - does that mean the team shouldn't be punished? Part of being a head coach is knowing what is going on with your team (esp when someone is breaking a league rule). The league didn't care if Payton knew about the bounties, so I'm not sure why it matters if Belichick knew about the deflation of the balls.

There needs to be some kind of penalty (not sure it needs to be as draconian as what some of the ESPN talking heads are saying though) - regardless of what Brady and Beli knew. Even if it's just some rogue ballboy, the onus is still on Belichick to have a handle on his team and make sure rules aren't broken under his watch.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

But that makes you a hypocrite since you did root for the 97/98 Broncos, didn't you?

Even though I obviously have a rooting interest, football on TV esp. the over-wrought, over-produced super bowl and its commercials have little interest for me. Can't remember the last time I watched more than 20 minutes. Doesn't make me much of a fan apparently but at least I don't have to pretend watching or not watching means anything.

I wondered when that would be brought up. The Broncos had two violations of the salary cap for the seasons 96-98. It would have been hard for me to be a hypocrite for cheering for those teams since the announcement of the investigation and penalties were not announced until 2001. There was a second violation found for those years in 2004.

Does it make feel bad about those titles? Yeah, it does. Two things really bother me about those titles to this day:

1) The fact it was proven they cheated takes a luster off of those Super Bowls for me. I tried to justify it for awhile. . . But in the end I cannot do it. It was cheap, unfair to the rest of the league and puts a stain on Elways two Super Bowl wins. Will never forget the feeling of those wins, but as a fan, I don't want to win that way.

2) Having to watch Bill Romanowski celebrate. One of my least favorite Broncos of all time. I hated the fact he was on those teams. I hated that in order to watch Elway get a title, I had to watch that scumbag hold the trophy.

Full disclosure: I have a signed Elway picture hanging on my wall of him doing the helicopter in the Green Bay Super Bowl. Favorite player in his best play. I just wish the Broncos had done it the right way. They didn't and I find it sad.

I think I have been fairly consistent throughout the years. I despise cheating of any kind, any size. This is no different.

[Ben E Lou]

Oh, I'm not suggesting that he's not at least partially responsible. It's pretty clear that he's created an environment where the players know that bending/breaking the rules is acceptable--especially if you don't get caught. I was just more reacting to comments here and elsewhere that have seemed to lean toward the thinking that BB was directly involved.

[Kodos]

The whole Payton/Peyton thing is very confusing for people.

[Buccaneer]

Why would ESPN talking heads be pushing for a draconian penalty?

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Just saw some clips from a presser with BB. He's denying that he knew anything. Makes complete sense to me.

UNACCEPTABLE! BELICHICK MUST DIE TO SATE OUR BLOODLUST! #BALLGHAZI

[jeff061]

Not that it will sway anyone on either side of the fence, Belichick's comments:

"All right, I’ll start off by addressing the football issue here. When I came in Monday morning, I was shocked to learn of the news reports about the footballs. I had no knowledge whatsoever of this situation whatsoever until Monday morning. I’d say I’ve learned a lot more about this process in the last three days than I know, or had talked about it, in the last 40 years that I’ve coached in this league.

“I had no knowledge of the various steps involved in the game balls and the process that happened between when they were prepared and went to the officials and went to the game. So I’ve learned a lot about that. I obviously understand that each team has the opportunity to prepare the balls they want, give them to the officials, and the game officials either approve or disapprove the balls and that really was the end of it for me. Until I learned a little bit more about this the last couple days.

“Let me just say that my personal coaching philosophy and my mentality has always been to make things as difficult as possible for players in practice. And so with regard to footballs, I’m sure that any current or past player of mine would tell you that the balls we practice with are as bad as they can be -- wet, sticky, cold, slippery. However bad we can make them, I make them. And any time that players complain about the quality of footballs, I make them worse and that stops the complaining. So we never use the condition of the footballs as an excuse. We play with whatever, or kick with whatever we have to use, and that’s the way it is. That has never been a priority for me and I want the players to deal with a harder situation in practice than they’ll ever have to deal with in the game. Maybe that’s part of our whole ball-security philosophy. I’m trying to coach the team and that’s what I want to do.


"I have no explanation for what happened," Bill Belichick said of the Patriots' underinflated footballs used in the AFC title game.
“I think we all know that quarterbacks, kickers, specialists have certain preferences on footballs. They know a lot more about it than I do. They’re a lot more sensitive to it than I am. I hear them comment on it from time to time, but I can tell and they will tell you that there is never any sympathy whatsoever from me on that subject. Zero. Tom’s personal preferences on his footballs is something he can talk about in much better detail and information than I can possibly provide.

“I can tell you that in my entire coaching career, I have never talked to any player, staff member about football air pressure. That is not a subject that I have ever brought up. To me, the footballs are approved by the league and officials pregame, and we play with what’s out there. That’s the only way that I have ever thought about that.

“I have learned about the inflation range situation. Obviously, with our footballs being inflated to the 12.5-pound range, any deflation would then take us under that specification limit. Knowing that now, in the future, we will certainly inflate the footballs above that low level to account for any possible change during the game.

“So, as an example, if a ball deflated from 13.2 to 12.9, it wouldn’t matter. But if it deflated from 12.5 to 12.3,it would. So we will take steps in the future to make sure we don’t put ourselves in that type of potential situation again.

“The National Football League is investigating this situation. We have cooperated fully, quickly and completely with every request they have made, and continue to be cooperative in any way that we can. I have no explanation for what happened, and that’s what they’re looking into.

“So I can’t comment on what they’re doing. That’s something that you should talk to them about. Again, my overall knowledge of football specifications, the overall process that happens on game day with the footballs, is very limited. I would say that during the course of the game, honestly never … it probably has happened on an incomplete pass or something ... but I’ve never touched a game ball. It’s not something that I have any familiarity with on that.

“Again, I was completely and totally unaware of any of this that we’re talking about the last couple days until Monday morning. So based on what I knew Sunday night, thinking back on this, which I’ve done several times, I really can’t think of anything that I would have done differently based on what I knew then, based on what I know now. I told you the one change we’d make in the initial start level of the football pressure. But that’s really about it. It’s unfortunate that this is a story coming off two great playoff victories by our football team, our players. But again, we’ve been cooperative with the NFL investigation and will continue to do so and we will turn all our attention and focus on to the Seattle Seahawks -- a very well-coached, talented, tough, competitive football team.

“We’ve spent the last four days, three days, with our preparations and so forth for the trip. I think those are coming to a conclusion. We’re wrapping that up and we’re starting our preparations today with the Seahawks and practicing through the weekend, so we’ll have a good, solid opportunity to get ourselves ready to go before we head down there.

“Again, I have no further comment on the NFL investigation and I’ve told you all I know about the subject from my perspective. So that’s where we are.”

[jeff061]

I think Belichick would love to use this to start a smear campaign on Brady and run him out of town in the offseason. I don't think Kraft will let him though.

[cartman]

I think that is also the most words used by Belichick in a press conference in his 40 years in the league.

[jeff061]

Dola,

I also wonder how much of that speech was approved by Goodell's office, I think a good chunk of it. I think the NFL and the Patriots are already working together to set the stage how they want it.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I think Belichick would love to use this to start a smear campaign on Brady and run him out of town in the offseason. I don't think Kraft will let him though.

Why would Belichek want to move out the Hall of Fame QB that helped him go to 6 Super Bowls?

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Why would Belichek want to move out the Hall of Fame QB that helped him go to 6 Super Bowls?

Because that's what he does when he thinks someone is on the downswing and/or thinks a rift is being generated. He doesn't care about past credentials. If Garoppolo is just another Mallet he won't, but if he likes him he's already planning that transition. Brady would be the highest profile casualty of this but certainly not the first.

But I think Kraft values what you said more than he does and won't let him. I do think Brady's end in NE is a lot closer than a lot of people think.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Because that's what he does when he thinks someone is on the downswing and/or thinks a rift is being generated. He doesn't care about past credentials. If Garoppolo is just another Mallet he won't, but if he likes him he's already planning that transition. Brady would be the highest profile casualty of this but certainly not the first.

But I think Kraft values what you said more than he does and won't let him.

You're closer to the situation than I am, so I'll give you that. But it always seems to me that Belichek is about winning, and I find it very hard to believe he thinks Garoppolo is anywhere near to Brady's level, even now. If Garoppolo were here for 3 years and had several stellar preseason or blowout time performances a la Rodgers with Favre, that would be one thing. But he is not.

[Ben E Lou]

"I have no explanation for what happened," Bill Belichick said of the Patriots' underinflated footballs used in the AFC title game.
“I think we all know that quarterbacks, kickers, specialists have certain preferences on footballs. They know a lot more about it than I do. They’re a lot more sensitive to it than I am. I hear them comment on it from time to time, but I can tell and they will tell you that there is never any sympathy whatsoever from me on that subject. Zero. Tom’s personal preferences on his footballs is something he can talk about in much better detail and information than I can possibly provide.

I don't know anything about the current internal politics of the Patriots, but it's kinda hard to see that as anything but the Head Coach deflecting the blame toward his starting QB.

[jeff061]

No way Garoppolo is. But if Belichick think's he's going to be the QB of the future(even if he's never as good as TB), he won't cling on to Brady as he degrades. He'll labor through a year of lesser QB play(and probably still make the playoffs) if it means a brighter future, no doubt in my mind. He's ruthless.

That aside, I am admittedly not exactly the biggest Brady supporter as anyone that watches a game with me can attest. He's not accurate anymore, he throws more stupid picks as the years go by and he cowers in the face of any pressure. The local media always has an excuse for him, either line or crummy recievers, but I don't buy it. His value is on the practice field, he is not the star he used to be on the game field.

In my opinion.

[Buccaneer]

Context. Saying that Brady is not the qb he used to be but going from a 10 to an 8 is still better than just about everyone. Question is whether he'll go to a Manning 6 next season.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Context. Saying that Brady is not the qb he used to be but going from a 10 to an 8 is still better than just about everyone. Question is whether he'll go to a Manning 6 next season.

Agree. I don't think he's been a 10 in the last couple years though. And part of the context is we actually have a defense for the first time in forever. So we can win without terrific QB play, as long as they aren't turning it over. Looking for someone in the 2001-2004 Brady mold right now. If we have to suffer through a QB change when the defense is also in transition, that will be painful.

[BillJasper]

It wouldn't surprise me to find out the NFL is behind this to generate interest and viewer eyeballs during a two-week period where we already know the teams pretty well.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Context. Saying that Brady is not the qb he used to be but going from a 10 to an 8 is still better than just about everyone. Question is whether he'll go to a Manning 6 next season.

He already was behind Peyton Manning in stats during the regular season.

[albionmoonlight]

Belichick learned under Parcells, and Parcells says you always want to get rid of a player one year too early instead of one year too late.

And I also think that, whatever happened with the footballs, Belichick was not involved. If he had knowledge of it, I think we would have gotten the "no comment/investigation is ongoing" answer. Pretty risky to issue a 100% denial if there are people who could point the finger at you.

[jeff061]

I believe Brady's talking at 3:30, rescheduled from tomorrow. I can't imagine they'd reschedule if he was just going to stonewall everyone. Will be interesting.

[ColtCrazy]

ESPN's headline sort of eludes to Belichick throwing Brady under the bus. Oh that sneaky media.

[Honolulu_Blue]

The worst thing about this entire "scandal" is that it even exists in the first place.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

The worst thing about this entire "scandal" is that it even exists in the first place.

At least there are a couple people that agree with me. When the first reports came out early Monday I chuckled it was even being reported on. I still can't believe what it's blown up to.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

The worst thing about this entire "scandal" is that it even exists in the first place.

I agree. Professional athletes and coaches shouldn't cheat. They should win in within the guidelines of the rules. What I think sucks about it is how many people just try to deflect it off as though it were not important. Cheating isn't correct on any level. You wouldn't teach your child to do it. You wouldn't want your coworker or your boss to cheat. You wouldn't cheat on your taxes. It's horrible behavior and it shouldn't just slide.

Of course, I'm one of those guys who believes in punishment for the action, not the result. One guy drives drunk and hits a school bus, one guy drives drunk and gets pulled over when nothing happened. I don't like the idea one guy has his life ruined forever while the other douche bag moves on easily. Cheating is cheating.

As far as the Beli news conference, it clearly throws Brady under the bus. The balls were not deflated by accident. No way in hell a ball boy was doing this on his own volition. If Beli says he's not involved, that means Brady was involved. This would be his "first" violation because I'm sure he didn't know about the video tape thing.

That gets him fined, probably no other major punishment and the story goes away.

[jeff061]

As far as the Beli news conference, it clearly throws Brady under the bus. The balls were not deflated by accident. No way in hell a ball boy was doing this on his own volition. If Beli says he's not involved, that means Brady was involved. This would be his "first" violation because I'm sure he didn't know about the video tape thing.

That gets him fined, probably no other major punishment and the story goes away.

Which is why I think that presser was put together hand in hand with the NFL, Brady's probably is as well, all to support the already determined action of a fine against Brady.

[Arles]

I think you hit a slippery slope when you start saying some rules are important and others "don't matter much". It's pretty clear that deflating the footballs below the regulated limit after inspection is a violation. The extent of the punishment is an interesting debate - I am more interesting in a transparent investigation with solid reasons for punishments/findings. I don't have a bloodlust for a massive penalty like some. But, I do think this is a legit violation that should involve some kind of investigation.

[jeff061]

Ok, but an investigation is taking place, it is being handled as a violation and I don't think anyone is arguing against either of those. So what ultimately is your point?

I'm lambasting the idiotic media coverage and the people in this thread and elsewhere that are looking for million dollar fines, fired coaches, docked draft picks and things of that ilk.

[Chief Rum]

I think it matters that this isn't New England's first brush with cheating, even if we accept Belichek at his word that he wasn't in on this one. This is much less of an issue if it happens to a first time offender franchise.

[Buccaneer]

LOL "first time offender franchise"

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

LOL "first time offender franchise"

Heh heh I wasn't sure how to put it.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Ok, but an investigation is taking place, it is being handled as a violation and I don't think anyone is arguing against either of those. So what ultimately is your point?

I'm lambasting the idiotic media coverage and the people in this thread and elsewhere that are looking for million dollar fines, fired coaches, docked draft picks and things of that ilk.

Pretty much what sack stated. This isn't the first rodeo for the organization playing loose with the rules. We have spygate. We have the injury report Now we have this being done in a championship game of all things.

I still think the organization should face some very stiff fines and the loss of draft picks. A company doesn't get off the hook because they didn't know about it. It's up to Kraft to set the tone about no more shenanigans. Obviously, the first series of fines failed in that regard. Hopefully this one fixes it.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Ok, but an investigation is taking place, it is being handled as a violation and I don't think anyone is arguing against either of those. So what ultimately is your point?

My response was related to quotes like this below - basically inferring that this shouldn't even be an issue:

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

The worst thing about this entire "scandal" is that it even exists in the first place.

Originally Posted by jeff061

At least there are a couple people that agree with me. When the first reports came out early Monday I chuckled it was even being reported on. I still can't believe what it's blown up to.

My point was that - while I don't think it should be reach the "pre-Super Bowl fever pitch" of coverage it's gotten - there should be an investigation and if the rules were indeed broken, Belichik should be punished even if he didn't know.

I'm lambasting the idiotic media coverage and the people in this thread and elsewhere that are looking for million dollar fines, fired coaches, docked draft picks and things of that ilk.

I don't think docking a draft pick is unreasonable if the Pats were shown to have broken the rules.

[Arles]

Interesting sidebar from Belichik's presser. He said this:

When I came in Monday morning, I was shocked to learn of the news reports about the footballs. I had no knowledge whatsoever of this situation whatsoever until Monday morning.

I'm assuming it is league protocol to inform the head coach if they inspect the balls at half and find 11 out of spec. So, either the league didn't tell Bill or he wasn't completely truthful with the above statement.

[jeff061]

You are never, ever, ever going to be able to exert such total control over franchises such that minor things like this are eradicated. No matter the franchise or penalty. Theres too much of this crap going on and to many rules, things get overlooked, especially when it's being done by individual players without oversite.

So if you want to destroy a franchise for a couple years, fine, the haters will love it(which is ultimately the reason for this situation), but it's not going to accomplish a damn thing.

Edit: Because I know someone is going to go around this circle jerk argument again, I'm not saying there should be zero penalty and this should be 100% ignored. A Brady fine just to remind players for a little awhile that this is a no no is sufficient.

[whomario]

I don´t have a dog in this fight, but ...

Originally Posted by Arles

My point was that - while I don't think it should be reach the "pre-Super Bowl fever pitch" of coverage it's gotten - there should be an investigation and if the rules were indeed broken, Belichik should be punished even if he didn't know.

wait, why exactly ? This is akin to punishing a Running Back individually for an illegal block by his Fullback who thinks he is helping him out best that way, instead of setting the team back some yards. You can punish the team/franchise, but certainly not punish individuals if said individuals are not found guilty of conspiring this thing.

Or is "Presumption of Innocence" not a thing anymore ?

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by Arles

Interesting sidebar from Belichik's presser. He said this:

I'm assuming it is league protocol to inform the head coach if they inspect the balls at half and find 11 out of spec. So, either the league didn't tell Bill or he wasn't completely truthful with the above statement.

You know what they say about assuming...

[SackAttack]

“So, as an example, if a ball deflated from 13.2 to 12.9, it wouldn’t matter. But if it deflated from 12.5 to 12.3,it would. So we will take steps in the future to make sure we don’t put ourselves in that type of potential situation again.

'Cept, Coach, reports say it wasn't a 0.2 PSI deflation, it was more like a 2.0 PSI deflation, and it was across the board. I don't know if this thing blows up the way it has if the deflation was just 0.1 or 0.2 PSI on each of those 11 balls, rather than the 2.0 or so that has been reported.