United Flight Forcibly Removes Passenger

[jeff061]

That was my hope about Munoz, right up until his first and second response to this situation.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by jeff061

That was my hope about Munoz, right up until his first and second response to this situation.

Well, he's really gotten the employees behind him, which is why you're seeing a lot of support from them here. It also speaks to his first response which was to reassure the employees that he has their backs.

Under Smisek, and in the long history before, going back to pre-merger and bankruptcy, employees were simply a commodity to use too. There's still a large number that are cautious of him. There have been too many charlatans in this industry who said one thing and sold out workers afterward. He at least is an operations person, who comes from the RR industry, as opposed to an accountant who only thinks with their $$$'s.

It takes a long time to change corporate culture. Things are moving in a positive direction. Our performance numbers are still lagging Delta but consistently ahead of everyone else. Front line culture also needs to change, but that will take time too.

I really think that it's too easy to simply chalk this up to poor top level. Especially when he's really only been in control for, what, a year, if you take out the heart attack.

Here's what the COB put out yesterday:

Dear fellow members of the United family,
We on the board of directors have been meeting and talking regularly this week and working with Oscar and the management team in the aftermath of Sunday’s terrible event. We are deeply sorry and upset about what happened, and our apologies and sympathies go to Dr. David Dao and all those on UA 3411.
We are supporting Oscar and his team as they work to assure that something like this does not happen again. That means, as you have heard, changes to our policies of when we will ask law enforcement officers to come onto our planes and our procedures when there is an oversold situation.
But we have to learn from this incident and do more than merely make sure it does not happen again. We need to use this regrettable event as a defining moment and pivot off it to craft friendly policies and redouble our efforts to win back the trust of everyone - something I know we will do. United Airlines is a great company, with tens of thousands of professional people committed to safety and devoted to serving our customers. The management team is exploring a lot of creative initiatives, and the board will give them the support they require to redouble our efforts to be truly customer-focused in everything we do, every hour of the day, the world over.
Our company will need your ideas and everyone's ideas, large and small, on how we can bring a smile to the faces of our customers with acts of kindness, service, respect, and understanding. We will need to think creatively and be dedicated to this purpose with true and sustained intensity. We will need to organize around it, build a culture that values it, and processes that facilitate it. When we do, we will have used this sad event as the catalyst to build a better airline that enables us to feel pride in how we make other people’s lives better.

All my best,
Robert
Robert A. Milton, Chairman of the Board, United Airlines

[Toddzilla]

Contrast this with the Amazon AWS S3 outage last month where they quickly threw their people under the bus an publically blamed an employee for making a mistake that caused the outage.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

That's all anyone wants to believe. They don't want to learn, they don't want to know, they only want to scream for blood.

For the record, thereis a lesson here to be learned. And for maybe the first time, Pilotman is now learning it: the outrage of public opinion does not care to learn.

And let me be very specific--this is the exact nature of a largely left-leaning public opinion, fueled by numbers (my understanding is that people who espouse to be more left in their viewpoints are generally more numerous than those on the right) and an omni-present social media platform that allows everyone to scream out their opinions all at once.

Pilotman, you are a noted and vocal left leaning personality on this forum. In this short window, I would like you to appreciate that the attack and badgering you are currently taking on both here and on FB entirely mirrors the general Republican/right-leaning experience on social and mainstream media.

Those on the left rarely see this side, so you are in the rare position as a liberal person to see it and experience it. And I symphatize and emphathize because it is not fun. This kind of targeting and demonization of the opponent is exactly the atmosphere which fueled the radicalization of the right, which formed the base of support for the sad sack orange turnip we currently have in the Oval Office.

And before anyone goes off, I know this works both ways. In areas where the conservative viewpoint is king, I have no doubt left leaning members feel similar persecution and marginalizing. And also, if roles were reversed and the viewpoint of the right were king on the general social media, the left woild feel similarly.

I'm not bringing this up to say "left bad, right good" (especially considering I have almost as many issues with the right as I do the left), bur to point out that human nature and social media have not exactly resulted in a harmonious discussion of different perspectives online, and we should all try to remember that the next time we endeavour to attack or deride someone with a different opinion than our own.

[jeff061]

Da fuk?

[Ragone]

Regardless of who did what.. If i run back onto a plane after being deboarded. I'm expecting my ass to get kicked, or worse.

I'm not into victim shaming, but everytime i hear about this doctor it's not in a good way(I'm from Louisville originally and i know people who have worked with him, and have not heard a single positive story from any of them)

[Ben E Lou]

Security question: has anyone determined how the heck he got back on the plane and was just standing there? When an unauthorized person boards a plane is precisely when I'd HOPE that security would be dragging him off.

[Butter]

I know this is probably not any earth shattering news to anyone, but this demonization and overreaction is what you get when an industry has been pushing customer unfriendly policies for years with little to no resistance or market correction. The entire experience of flying has become less than fun, it has become an absolute chore that many avoid at all costs. I am a 6'3", 300 lb. man, and squeezing my ass and my legs into a seat for 2-5 hours is about as fun as taking a baseball bat to the nuts.

The backlash is more than just a response to this one incident and this one policy. It is a backlash against the entire aviation industry and how people are treated during the entire process. Every time I fly (several times a year, mostly for business), it seems like there is just an edge to everyone, the employees, the passengers, everyone. That it has boiled over in such a high profile way with such an unsympathetic character is a testimony to a public that is out for blood for an industry that has long taken passenger comfort and concern and pushed it aside.

[Logan]

The good experiences make the average or bad experiences really stand out. I pretty much always enjoy flying JetBlue. Their crews seem to be friendlier and much more accommodating which goes a long way when encountering delays or just minor annoyances.

Then there are times when you end up on a special flight which was just such a shockingly different experience. That happened for us when we took the inaugural direct JB flight from JFK to Curacao back in December 2014. The whole thing was like a party.

[digamma]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Da fuk?

It's ok, just an important reminder of who the real victims are here: middle aged white men.

[nilodor]

Originally Posted by Butter

It is a backlash against the entire aviation industry and how people are treated during the entire process. Every time I fly (several times a year, mostly for business), it seems like there is just an edge to everyone, the employees, the passengers, everyone.

This is similar to my feeling as well. My wife and I have been adjusting our vacation habits (i.e. flying less) and the airlines we fly accordingly. I don't know if the industry would be better off charging more and giving back some of the comforts? Or if the whole process has irreparably changed, with all of the changes to security, etc.?

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by nilodor

This is similar to my feeling as well. My wife and I have been adjusting our vacation habits (i.e. flying less) and the airlines we fly accordingly. I don't know if the industry would be better off charging more and giving back some of the comforts? Or if the whole process has irreparably changed, with all of the changes to security, etc.?

My wife is still one of those travel shoppers who reflexively goes for the cheapest fare, but I'm stepping in. No more. If I can fly Alaska, that's what we're doing even if it's more. If Alaska isn't an option, then probably Delta.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Security question: has anyone determined how the heck he got back on the plane and was just standing there? When an unauthorized person boards a plane is precisely when I'd HOPE that security would be dragging him off.

Yeah. Exactly.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Butter

The backlash is more than just a response to this one incident and this one policy. It is a backlash against the entire aviation industry and how people are treated during the entire process. Every time I fly (several times a year, mostly for business), it seems like there is just an edge to everyone, the employees, the passengers, everyone. That it has boiled over in such a high profile way with such an unsympathetic character is a testimony to a public that is out for blood for an industry that has long taken passenger comfort and concern and pushed it aside.

The airlines went through a very long, dark period where everyone from passengers to employees were really beaten down. The post 9/11 recession caused a great deal of strife and when the rest of the economy was coming back, the airlines all went bankrupt. During those years from 01-05 the airlines merged in order to survive, cut services, squeezed every last penny that they could from passengers and employees. During that time, low cost carriers like SW aggressively grabbed market share. Jet Blue was started up thanks to essentially free airplanes and free maintenance from Airbus (illegally I might add) for years. Also new start ups have cheaper employees right from the start by the very nature that everyone is year 1 pay.

As airlines were bleeding money and reorganizing virtually no money was going into the creature comforts or improving the operation. Then the great recession rolled along and dropped another massive hammer until about the end of 09. Nearly 10 years of non-stop ass kicking. Since then all the legacy carriers have been playing catch up. The Feds have been completely delinquent in keeping up with tech and improving aviation infrastructure. Congress can't seem to find any money to send toward fixing things, so we're just now getting up to the ATC 2000 goals, over 15 years too late.

The airlines have been pouring money into the operation since they became solvent again from trying to expedite the security screening process to using their own money to modernize terminals, but it's a long, long, expensive process. That's basically why Smisek had to resign from United. He agreed to run a series of unprofitable flights, to 1 airport, that really only benefited one person, in exchange for some big money support (that person was in charge of spending said money) from the government to upgrade EWR. I think that stuff happens pretty much all the time in politics, especially in the NE. Like in sports, it's only cheating if you get caught.

When you've lost that much time, and have as little support from the government there are always going to be laggards. Too many airlines are nationals, owned, operated, and supported by the government and glad to grab any international market share that they can get, willing to operate at a loss to do it. The US carriers are so massive and run so many flights per day that any changes can get expensive really quick.

Look at El Al. An airline that people love to say knows how to do everything right. They have armed guards that watch their planes 24/7/365 no matter where they are. They scrutinize passengers for security and know how to "profile the right way" whatever that means. They have 43 planes and fly to 56 destinations. That's nothing. United alone has 78 domestic destinations and even more international. People love to ask why can't the US carriers do "such and such." The answer is most likely scale, and cost. They could, but they don't make nearly enough money to do all the things that people wish they could.

Originally Posted by Logan

The good experiences make the average or bad experiences really stand out. I pretty much always enjoy flying JetBlue. Their crews seem to be friendlier and much more accommodating which goes a long way when encountering delays or just minor annoyances.

Then there are times when you end up on a special flight which was just such a shockingly different experience. That happened for us when we took the inaugural direct JB flight from JFK to Curacao back in December 2014. The whole thing was like a party.

Yeah, I've heard great things about them too. A lot of my friends work there. I've never had the chance to ride on them. They were in a great spot. Great location, big start up money, cheap planes, no maintenance (planes under warranty for a while anyway) and able to expand during a time of massive upheaval for the other major carriers they were fortunate enough to get a foothold where others had fallen.

Things have gotten harder for them, but they've still got a great operation. The rumor mill has been flying that they are ripe for an acquisition. The pilot group just got union leadership to protect themselves in the event that very thing happened, and there are enough companies out there with enough cash on the side to make things happen if they wanted. But it's all be speculation up to this point.


At least the US fleets are getting newer, but like I said, we're almost 2 decades behind where things should be. Denver International was the last major airport built in the US. It opened in 1995. That was 22 years ago. You can't lay all the blame at the airlines themselves when they've been playing with shit cards and not enough help for far too long.

[Edward64]

Kimmel and Matt Damon spoof.

Jimmy Kimmel Bumps Matt Damon In Spoof United Ad | The Huffington Post

[PilotMan]

Passenger picks fight with pilot after flight | New York Post

Texas woman rants on plane after being asked to get off | DailyMail Online

FTR, pilots are assholes. But if someone tried this with me, they'd really, really better want it, 'cause I'm coming back.

[SirFozzie]

Ere we go again:

I was going to make a "Round 2... fight!" joke now that it's American Airlines turn in the barrel, but Um.. a little too close to the truth. (and I'll say it before someone else does, when you record these things, do it in landscape not portrait :P)

Video shows intense moments between passengers, American Airlines crew | KYTX.com

[Edward64]

I wonder what the deal was with the stroller, why the initial "distress". But this seems pretty clear cut the flight attendant was in the wrong here by losing it.

BTW - what the heck was the captain doing? He looked like a bystander and he should have controlled the cabin and resolved it?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I wonder what the deal was with the stroller, why the initial "distress". But this seems pretty clear cut the flight attendant was in the wrong here by losing it.

BTW - what the heck was the captain doing? He looked like a bystander and he should have controlled the cabin and resolved it?

Maybe the boarding door wasn't closed yet.

[Grammaticus]

Typical, the media fails to report the story and plays up the sensational angle they want to portray. From a quick search, this is the best I could find from some guys blog.

Today’s incident centers on a woman who claims a FA forcibly grabbed her stroller from her, allegedly hitting her and nearly hitting her twin babies. Facts are still emerging, but it seems the gate agent told the passenger she could take the stroller onboard while the FA prevented her from entering the aircraft without gate checking it.

A fight ensued and the FA apparently grabbed the stroller “violently” from the woman.

Looks like the FA was too aggressive and the lady was another non-compliant entitled person putting everyone else beneath her.

[AlexB]

The guy standing up and saying "you try that on me..." was never going to help the situation, but the reaction of the attendant to the guy saying that was completely out of order.

[PilotMan]

Here's what I saw and speculate as to what's going on.

If she's got twins, she's got a huge stroller, and there are never any strollers allowed on the plane. They are simply too big. I'm guessing that there's no way that the passenger was told they could bring it on.

The mother barely speaks English.

I'm guessing that she thought that she could, then flipped out completely that she couldn't. Either way the stroller had to come off.

She can be seen crying and begging to have her stroller back. This is the behavior of someone who doesn't understand what's happening. She's going to see it, and it'll be brought right back to her when they land. She probably thinks she is never going to see it again until the final destination (they were traveling international so this would be rightly alarming). If your English isn't good this is exactly what you're thinking. She's a saint for trying to do that alone anyway.

There are real problem flight attendants out there who really suck balls. They have attitude problems and they think they own the sky. They don't. I do. {JOKING} {sort of} { No I AM!, geez.}

This FA is really, seriously out of line here.

The Captain looks like he shows up late, and things are already out of hand before he tries to do something. He's trying to get a handle on what's going on.

However, as soon as that FA starts going back and forth with the passenger he should have literally stepped between them and forced the employee off the plane.

The passenger who gets up and is physically threatening. Yes, he is. He stands up, tells the FA to try that with him, then closes distance. That is not helping, and is very aggressive behavior. That couldn't really caused problems as well. The FA is following his training by backing off, except he can't keep his mouth shut.

Terribly handled by the FA, poorly handled by the Captain, but he probably didn't grasp the extent of what was happening before it was too late. Again, like I explained earlier, the FA's are empowered in the cabin. Even though the Captain is the boss, the FA's can't report everything to him.

This FA should probably never fly in a plane again. He can do reservations, but I'd never recommend him to deal with passengers in any situation. Having said that. The union will fight for his job, he'll do some time off, and be back with a black mark and retraining.

He may come back with a bigger chip. {facepalm}

[bhlloy]

I had a somewhat similar experience with a FA on a domestic flight a few months back. Sitting across from a guy sitting with son who has a trophy in a large bag that doesn't really fit under the seat, flight attendant comes by and tells him to shove it under but tells him it's fine and it doesn't need to go up in the bins. Doing the final check before taking off senior/head/whatever attendant comes by (who by the way had spent a lot of the previous 15 mins doing standup over the PA, which was admittedly pretty funny) and decides that the bag isn't far enough under the seat and it will have to go up top. At which time passenger, pretty much within his rights is pissed as he's already explained he doesn't want the trophy to get jammed in and damaged and he's explained that to one of his coworkers who said it was fine under the seat, but he's going to do it. Attendant at this point decides he's not going fast enough for him and basically tells him again in a more pissed off voice, at which point the guy snaps back "I heard what you said. I'm working on it" and the attendant completely loses his shit, starts yelling at him that he is well within his right to turn the plane around, get the police on here and get him arrested, guy stands up (oh and he's clearly involved in MMA from his shirt and completely ripped) and it looks like it's going to kick off. Thankfully I guess the guy realizes it's not worth it or maybe he can see his kid is already upset and just complies with the request without too much more drama and we leave on time, but yeah.

TLDR that situation was maybe 10% passenger and 90% power tripping flight attendant who needlessly escalated the situation and obviously wasn't on the same page with his other crew either.

I've worked in customer service, I get it sucks but surely that's the job, right? And if you can't handle what was a pretty benign situation without threatening to have a customer kicked off and arrested then maybe it's not for you?

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

I've worked in customer service, I get it sucks but surely that's the job, right? And if you can't handle what was a pretty benign situation without threatening to have a customer kicked off and arrested then maybe it's not for you?

Bingo.

I look back on my restaurant management experience and realize that it did teach me a lot. A lot of how to swallow your own pride and put the store above your own person. Too many FA's believe that they are only there because the FAA says they have to be there (safety, evacuation), and nothing else. The grudgingly do customer service as a second position, and while yes, technically they are correct, if the airline could replace them with a vending machine they would, they lack any kind of empathy for what passengers are going through or what they need. They are in the minority, but it only takes one problem child to make a bad name for everyone.

The FAA has rules that the FA's have to abide by, with no exceptions. If they are not enforcing every single thing, to the letter of the law, the FAA will suspend and fine them and the airline. So the second FA in your story was protecting their butt. That was the standard. The other FA was one rolling the dice that there wasn't an FAA rep on the plane who would turn them in, and they decided that it was good enough. That's where things hard on everyone. The FAA will fuck your shit up if you let anything happen that they don't think should, such as a seat not in the upright position for takeoff or landing, and yes, they are that detailed, but the FAA only checks a very small percentage of flights, so the chance is pretty small that it will happen. But it only takes 1 time, so the fear is always there, but the odds are still in your favor.

[stevew]

Delta forcibly made passengers listen to Kenny G midair. That's a brutal assault on the senses.

[whomario]

When it rains, it pours !

United Airlines investigates giant bunny death - BBC News

Also, i want a rabbit like that now

[PilotMan]

In other news....

pretty much everything and anything else.

[PilotMan]

For the record, if you're in line for takeoff, and nobody else is up, at all, and you have an emergency and need to piss, ring the flight attendant call button and coordinate. Do people really not grasp that concept, after all this time?

I'm not allowed to move the plane if passengers are up. If we're in line for takeoff, you're holding up the entire airport operation.

If the flight attendant calls, we can work something out, and I can give you an idea of how much time we've got and whether or not it'll work. You may need to wait a minute, or if we're leaving shortly ten or fifteen if were taking off.

It's a little bit of courtesy, and understanding how the operation works that makes the difference. Delays of even a few minutes in that critical moment can cause ripple effects in the operation. Believe it or not, the time schedule that we try and maintain is critical. A few minutes aren't always easy to make up.

You can't assume that it'll be ok, because we're just sitting there. It's a hundred million dollar airplane, with a half billion dollars worth of passengers on it. There are six people working on my plane and we all are supposed to communicate that stuff with each other. Simply ignoring all that is rude and ignorant as a passenger. A little planning and consideration to the rules and operation goes a long, long way.

[CrescentMoonie]

I knew that, but I gained a much greater appreciation of it with the recent City in the Sky miniseries on PBS. It wasn't groundbreaking, but it helps get the picture of just how much detail goes into making things run as smoothly as they do.

[jeff061]

People are just piling on now. Don't think any of it is really noteworthy other than the original, which would have gone away real fast if the CEO had handled it properly rather than doubling down.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by jeff061

People are just piling on now. Don't think any of it is really noteworthy other than the original, which would have gone away real fast if the CEO had handled it properly rather than doubling down.

We certainly don't feel like he doubled down. He went to bat for his employees, who followed protocol and operational policies. Isn't that what you want from your employees? If there was another decision that could have been made to mitigate that situation it wasn't available to them then. The passenger involved is responsible for his behavior and his behavior was a factor in the outcome. I realize that Joe Public doesn't give 2 shits about how the employees react to the CEO, but like I said earlier, if he had thrown them under the bus to mitigate the public response, there would have been much bigger, deeper issues within the company and he would have lost the respect of the employees. Internally, that would have been catastrophic.

[jeff061]

Employees acted in accordance with a flawed policy, I take responsibility, apologies, reviewing, changing, blah blah blah. Pretty basic stuff.

It is possible to not double down on a shit customer bullying policy without blaming your employees.

[CrescentMoonie]

United to offer passengers up to $10,000 to surrender seats

Why would you announce the number like that?

[Logan]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

United to offer passengers up to $10,000 to surrender seats

Why would you announce the number like that?

It's just an increase to the cap. Actually could help them keep the number lower...if people know they could potentially offer up $10K, someone who has been offered $1K but is not 100% sold on taking it may be quicker to jump knowing that there are others who will always hold out for the max.

[Logan]

Settlement reached, terms undisclosed.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by Logan

Settlement reached, terms undisclosed.

All the wimmins for all the drugs.

[Logan]

Just had a brutal experience dealing with a United CSR over the phone.

Flying to Chicago tomorrow morning for work so I checked in through the app. On a big 777-200 with the middle section of seats as well, I'm sitting pretty much towards the back in an aisle seat (38C). I noticed my TSA Precheck # wasn't showing on my boarding pass so I go online to my account and see it isn't loaded in there. I couldn't get it to save for some reason, so I call Mileage Plus and get a guy who takes care of it for me. I ask if it will show on my boarding pass since I've already checked in, and he transfers me over to reservations. The woman I speak to says she'll make the adjustment for me and does so fairly quickly.

Two minutes after hanging up I get an email containing a boarding pass. I see I am now in 39E (the middle seat in the middle section) for my outbound flight and I don't have a confirmed seat for my flight home Friday. I go online and there are no non-middle non-premium seats available for my flight tomorrow, and I'm able to slide back into my original seat on Friday's flight.

I call them up and explain what happened, holding my original confirmation of my confirmed, reserved seat in 38C. The woman I'm speaking to says the previous agent did not change my seat assignment but she isn't sure what happened. I said I want to be placed in a non-middle seat. She says there is nothing she can assign me outside of Economy Plus but when I get to the airport tomorrow, a United representative will be able to put me in an aisle seat somewhere. I explain to her that I don't want to get to the airport early and have to explain this all over again, and hopefully get what I had confirmed and reserved in the first place. Could she either put me in a non-middle seat right now, or upgrade me to one of the several Economy Plus seats at no charge?

"I don't have the ability to place you in an aisle or window seat at this moment. But I assure you that a United rep will be able to do this for you at the airport." I again bring up that the seat map is showing everything else as occupied/unavailable. She again assures me that those seats will be freed up and I'll get one of them, but it won't happen until I'm at the airport. I ask about the upgraded seat and she says she can put me in one for $109. I go into the whole "why should I pay?" thing and she says she has no ability to waive that charge. I ask to speak to a manager. Her: "My manager will not be able to assign you a non-middle seat right now, nor can she waive that charge because you can get the seat you want at the airport tomorrow morning."

This conversation has already lasted a solid 10 minutes. I basically tell her I am not getting off the phone without a non-middle seat assigned to me. I tell her that I don't even care about being upgraded to a better seat for free, I just want what I have paid for and which had been confirmed/reserved up until about 20 mins prior. Literally any aisle or window seat is fine but I am not dealing with this at 6:30 am in an airport.

"Sir, the only non-middle seat I can assign you right now is an aisle seat in the last row."

Me: "FINE, I'll take it!" End of conversation and I'm finally moving on with my day.

Why is this made to be so fucking hard?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Logan

Just had a brutal experience dealing with a United CSR over the phone.

Flying to Chicago tomorrow morning for work so I checked in through the app. On a big 777-200 with the middle section of seats as well, I'm sitting pretty much towards the back in an aisle seat (38C). I noticed my TSA Precheck # wasn't showing on my boarding pass so I go online to my account and see it isn't loaded in there. I couldn't get it to save for some reason, so I call Mileage Plus and get a guy who takes care of it for me. I ask if it will show on my boarding pass since I've already checked in, and he transfers me over to reservations. The woman I speak to says she'll make the adjustment for me and does so fairly quickly.

Two minutes after hanging up I get an email containing a boarding pass. I see I am now in 39E (the middle seat in the middle section) for my outbound flight and I don't have a confirmed seat for my flight home Friday. I go online and there are no non-middle non-premium seats available for my flight tomorrow, and I'm able to slide back into my original seat on Friday's flight.

I call them up and explain what happened, holding my original confirmation of my confirmed, reserved seat in 38C. The woman I'm speaking to says the previous agent did not change my seat assignment but she isn't sure what happened. I said I want to be placed in a non-middle seat. She says there is nothing she can assign me outside of Economy Plus but when I get to the airport tomorrow, a United representative will be able to put me in an aisle seat somewhere. I explain to her that I don't want to get to the airport early and have to explain this all over again, and hopefully get what I had confirmed and reserved in the first place. Could she either put me in a non-middle seat right now, or upgrade me to one of the several Economy Plus seats at no charge?

"I don't have the ability to place you in an aisle or window seat at this moment. But I assure you that a United rep will be able to do this for you at the airport." I again bring up that the seat map is showing everything else as occupied/unavailable. She again assures me that those seats will be freed up and I'll get one of them, but it won't happen until I'm at the airport. I ask about the upgraded seat and she says she can put me in one for $109. I go into the whole "why should I pay?" thing and she says she has no ability to waive that charge. I ask to speak to a manager. Her: "My manager will not be able to assign you a non-middle seat right now, nor can she waive that charge because you can get the seat you want at the airport tomorrow morning."

This conversation has already lasted a solid 10 minutes. I basically tell her I am not getting off the phone without a non-middle seat assigned to me. I tell her that I don't even care about being upgraded to a better seat for free, I just want what I have paid for and which had been confirmed/reserved up until about 20 mins prior. Literally any aisle or window seat is fine but I am not dealing with this at 6:30 am in an airport.

"Sir, the only non-middle seat I can assign you right now is an aisle seat in the last row."

Me: "FINE, I'll take it!" End of conversation and I'm finally moving on with my day.

Why is this made to be so fucking hard?

I would have continued to insist to speak with a manager. Employees will say that so they won't have to get a manager involved, as it looks bad on them if they can't figure it out themselves.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I would have continued to insist to speak with a manager. Employees will say that so they won't have to get a manager involved, as it looks bad on them if they can't figure it out themselves.

I didn't care enough about getting an extra 6 inches of leg room for free to waste more time on the phone with a manager. All I wanted is what I should have had in the first place. And she had the ability to figure it out for herself from the jump, because if her response from the start was "All I can do for you right now is an aisle seat in the last row, but you can try for a better seat at the airport tomorrow" I would have said sure and ended the conversation and saved both of us a lot of time. But for some reason they maintain this blocked off seats bullshit when they clearly have the ability to get around that.

[Logan]

Update: For S&G, I checked with the gate agent when I got in today. There were no seats left.

Also, I just heard the loudest thunder I've ever experienced in my life while crossing the street in Chicago. Legitimately thought a bomb went off and other people were scattering for cover.

[tarcone]

I wish our airlines were a little more lenient towards their passengers.
This airline allows lap dances.

Lap dances on a plane: Woman filmed giving in-flight lap dance claims she's 'absolutely mortified’ | Fox News

[Edward64]

Yup, I agree with this. Passenger was a dick but the officers should definitely have handled it better. Didn't hear about misleading statements until this post though.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/17/us/uni...ned/index.html

(CNN)Chicago aviation officials fired two officers and suspended two others involved in the forcible removal of a United Airlines passenger from a packed flight.

Cellphone footage showed security officers on April 9 dragging Dr. David Dao by his arms and legs down the aisle and off the Louisville, Kentucky-bound flight before it took off at Chicago O'Hare International Airport.
Dao was left bloodied and bruised in the incident that created a firestorm for the airline.

Three Chicago Department of Aviation security officers and a sergeant "mishandled a nonthreatening situation that resulted in a physically violent forcible removal of a passenger" aboard the flight, a City of Chicago Office of Inspector General investigation found, officials said Tuesday.

Employees made "misleading statements and deliberately removed material facts from their reports," the investigation found.

The aviation department, acting on the inspector general's findings and recommendations, fired the officer "who improperly escalated the incident," the inspector general's office said. The sergeant "involved in the deliberate removal of facts from an employee report" also was terminated, officials said.

[Edward64]

Another headache for United.

Too soon to tell if United was following standard process of booting people off (e.g. if flight is oversold) but her story makes it sound as if it was specifically to accommodate a congresswoman (which may or may not be the case).

https://nypost.com/2017/12/24/airlin...-take-my-seat/

A teacher from Washington, D.C., accused United Airlines of booting her from her first class seat in order to give it to a congresswoman, she wrote in an account that the politician has since contested.

Jean-Marie Simon was at Bush International in Houston on her way home from a trip to Guatemala last week, when she witnessed U.S. Rep Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Texas) get ushered onto the plane before everyone else lined up, she wrote on Facebook.

When it came time for her to board the Dec. 18 flight, Simon said the gate attendant told her that her ticket was not in the system.

“A second United agent confirmed that I had no seat, not just the first class seat I had purchased, but no seat, period. I didn’t even have a reservation anymore,” she wrote.

When she was asked if she’d canceled her reservation, she said she hadn’t, she just wanted to get home.

[Edward64]

Sweet, karma is a bitch.

Delta passenger who 'screamed at a woman and her baby' placed on leave from government job | Fox News

[Edward64]

I don't think I've ever seen a dog put up in storage bin before (maybe too big to fit under the seat in front of her?) so interested in knowing more details. Poor dog.

United doesn't have a good record.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/13/us/un...rnd/index.html

(CNN)For more than three hours, a passenger's dog was inside an overhead bin on United Airlines flight 1284 from Houston to New York after a flight attendant told the passenger to put it there.

Airline officials say it was a mistake. It turned out to be a deadly one.
When the plane landed at LaGuardia Airport Monday night, the dog was deceased.

In a statement, United called the dog's death a "tragic accident." Spokesman Charlie Hobart told CNN a flight attendant should not have told the passenger to put the dog in the bin used for carry-on bags.

"We assume full responsibility for this tragedy and express our deepest condolences to the family and are committed to supporting them," the airline said in reply Tuesday to CNN's request for comment about reports of the dog's death. "We are thoroughly investigating what occurred to prevent this from ever happening again."
:
:
According to a US Department of Transportation report issued in February, 24 animals died in the care of US carriers last year. Three-quarters of those, 18, died while being handled by United. Of 15 reported injuries, 13 occurred with United.

Of the problems documented in the DOT report, which include death, injury and loss of animals, United had the highest rate of incidents: For every 10,000 animals transported, United had 2.24 incidents.

[PilotMan]

So here's a situation where the flight attendant fucked up big time, but of course the company has to answer for it.

This is strictly against procedure (not just United, but every airline, everywhere). It should be common knowledge. It never should have happened, animals are prohibited in the overhead bins. I don't have a fucking clue what this person was thinking. I'm assuming that none of the other flight attendants were aware. The response from United was appropriate. This person should be fired straight out.

[stevew]

Was it an emotional support dog?

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by stevew

Was it an emotional support dog

Dunno, article did not say.

I do see an increase in the # of dogs travelling on planes now and suspect many of those are bogus "support dogs".

[stevew]

One of my Uber friends got suspended and was almost delisted over some assholes with 2 giant great Dane "support dogs". People had 4 giant suitcases and the dogs and were too cheap to call an XL Uber. He had to go through hell just to get turned back on.

I'm not sure why some idiot told them to put a dog in an airtight bin, but wtf was the dog doing on the plane for starters. Find a kennel if you're traveling.

[AnalBumCover]

Another article noted that the dog was a French Bulldog. Isn't there some issue with bringing short-nosed dogs on a plane, with breathing issues and high air pressure? Maybe the dog suffocated.