The Obama Presidency - 2008 & 2012

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

That's a helluva revision in program cost.......

Obamacare program costs $50,000 for every American who gets health insurance | Daily Mail Online

And a starkly different headline from the same report.......

Obamacare cost to be 20% less than forecast, budget office says - LA Times

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

That's a helluva revision in program cost.......

Obamacare program costs $50,000 for every American who gets health insurance | Daily Mail Online

And a starkly different headline from the same report.......

Obamacare cost to be 20% less than forecast, budget office says - LA Times

Or instead of comparing a right-wing publication to a left-wing publication and leaving everybody else to try to sort the context, you could include the appropriate quote from the first page of the CBO report:

In preparing the January 2015 baseline budget projections, the Congressional Budget Office and the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) have updated their estimates of the budgetary effects of the major provisions of the Affordable Care Act (ACA) that relate to health insurance coverage.

The new baseline estimates rely on analyses completed in the early part of December 2014 and incorporate information on enrollment made available by then and administrative actions issued through early November 2014. However, the estimates do not reflect CBO’s updated economic projections (which were completed after the agency’s analysis of insurance coverage was under way), the most recent data on enrollment through insurance exchanges, or any federal administrative actions or decisions by states about expanding Medicaid coverage that have occurred since that time. Hence, the updates are preliminary. CBO and JCT currently estimate that the ACA’s coverage provisions will result in net costs to the federal government of $76 billion in 2015 and $1,350 billion over the 2016–2025 period. Compared with the projection from last April, which spanned the 2015–2024 period, the current projection represents a downward revision in the net costs of those provisions of $101 billion over those 10 years, or a reduction of about 7 percent.

And compared with the projection made by CBO and JCT in March 2010, just before the ACA was enacted, the current estimate represents a downward revision in the net costs of those provisions of $139 billion—or 20 percent—for the five-year period ending in 2019, the last year of the 10-year budget window used in that original estimate.

Basically? The Mail is comparing the projected costs for 2010-2019 and with the projected costs for 2016-2025 and going HA IT'S COSTING MORE while the LA Times is comparing what remains of the original projection (through 2019) with the CBO's projection through 2019 currently and going "huh, that outlay is actually going to be 20% less during that period than originally proposed."

It isn't apples to apples. The LA Times is pulling its headline almost directly from the first page of the CBO while the Daily Mail is going sensationalistic and ignoring all sorts of context in making its claim.

[Edward64]

Beyond just showing how much it takes to be considered in the 1%, it also has another graphic showing the growing economic growth/wealth disparity. I get this trend is not all Obama's fault and likely started from GWB tenure but is still troubling as its happening on his watch.

Some of this wealth gap is likely deserved (I've done well since the Great Recession officially ended) but don't think it explains most of the disparity. Article didn't explain why it was happening -- what policies may be causing this etc.

Here’s how much it takes to join your state’s 1% - MarketWatch

Officially, to be considered in the top 1% in America, your household income would need to be well north of $380,000, according to IRS 2014 data. On a state-by-state level, the benchmark fluctuates, as you can see above.

Beyond the fun imaging, the EPI uses this map and the accompanying report to show a grim trend: The rich are getting richer, while the poor aren’t going anywhere, growth-wise.

According to the EPI report, income growth has been lopsided since the end of the Great Recession in 2009, with the top 1% of income earners grabbing an “alarming” share of the growth. In 39 states, the top income earners have captured more than 50% of all economic growth between 2009-2012. Meanwhile, the bottom 99% saw incomes grow by just 20%, according to the report.

These findings are in line with other research. Pew cites that America’s wealth gap between middle and upper-class citizens is the widest on record. On a global level, Oxfam reports that the world’s top 1% may soon own a majority of the wealth, a problem so worrying that it made it atop the agenda at this year’s World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Beyond just showing how much it takes to be considered in the 1%, it also has another graphic showing the growing economic growth/wealth disparity. I get this trend is not all Obama's fault and likely started from GWB tenure but is still troubling as its happening on his watch.

Some of this wealth gap is likely deserved (I've done well since the Great Recession officially ended) but don't think it explains most of the disparity. Article didn't explain why it was happening -- what policies may be causing this etc.

Here’s how much it takes to join your state’s 1% - MarketWatch

It is pretty clear that the disparity started expanding back during Reagan's first term when the top marginal tax rate was slashed from 70% to 50%, then further to 28% in his second term.

[Edward64]

Too bad, I think it would have been an interesting race but probably right decision for him, family and the GOP to let someone new have a shot.

Log In - The New York Times

In a second call to a larger group of supporters, Mr. Romney said, “After putting considerable thought into making another run for president, I’ve decided it is best to give other leaders in the party the opportunity to become our next nominee.”
:
By not pursuing a third White House bid, Mr. Romney frees up scores of donors and operatives who had been awaiting his decision, and creates space for other potential center-right candidates such as former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush.

Mr. Romney, 67, had expressed renewed interest in another presidential run to a group of donors earlier this month, roiling the nascent Republican race. Many of his loyal contributors, staff members and supporters had been reluctant to come out for one of his potential rivals until they knew Mr. Romney’s plans.

But his flirtation had also prompted a fierce backlash across Republican circles, and some of Mr. Romney's former aides and donors have begun moving on to other candidates.

In a more than four-hour meeting last week, Mr. Romney’s top staff members and trusted advisers from 2012 relayed a sobering reality — they supported Mr. Romney and thought he would be the best president, but they did not necessarily encourage a third run.

One by one, loyal supporters talked about surveying their troops from 2012, and finding that the enthusiasm and support were just not there. Some Iowa precinct leaders were not coming back, and even in New Hampshire — where Mr. Romney had won the primary — the mood was described at best as “cautiously optimistic.” The situation with donors was also going to be an uphill climb.

Word of Mr. Romney’s decision sent waves through the Republican donor world early Friday, as Romney aides began to telegraph the news to donors and other staff members and strategists. Some donors immediately began calling representatives of other potential candidates, such as Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey, to discuss offering their support.

Mr. Romney’s announcement started a day of reckoning with his would-be rivals. He is scheduled to have dinner with Mr. Christie on Friday evening, according to two people with knowledge of his schedule, suggesting that Mr. Romney may be considering throwing his support, and that of his own political operation, to Mr. Christie. The two men are friendly, and Mr. Christie, along with Mr. Bush, was a main rival of Mr. Romney for the favor of the Republican establishment

.

[EagleFan]

Way to go Obama. That traitor that you traded terrorists for has again left to go with the Taliban. How you could have stood there and called this guy a hero shows your lack of character and your lack of common sense. You are a traitor and should be dealt as one.

[PilotMan]

I really don't think that anyone expected any different tbh. They knew that these guys were in it to win it. I'd also venture to guess that they have some sort of tracking device in them and that might be waiting to see just where and who they turn up with.

[miked]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Way to go Obama. That traitor that you traded terrorists for has again left to go with the Taliban. How you could have stood there and called this guy a hero shows your lack of character and your lack of common sense. You are a traitor and should be dealt as one.

I'm so confused by your (as usual) nonsense post. Are you saying that the American soldier left to join the Taliban? Or are you saying some of the people we traded for him are trying to rejoin the Taliban? If the latter, then duh. If you think they aren't tracking these dudes, than you are a fool and should be dealt as one (whatever that means).

Nothing you typed makes any sense except maybe to Sarah Palin (recent speech woes).

[Dutch]

I have no idea what the last three posts are about.

[flere-imsaho]

Bowe Bergdahl, I'm guessing.

Edit: Further, I'm assuming it's related to this: http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/bow...aliban-n296416

But...

At least one of five Taliban militants released by the Obama administration in a controversial exchange for American soldier Bowe Bergdahl has "attempted to reestablish contacts" with the Taliban in Afghanistan, U.S. officials told NBC News on Thursday.

There was no indication the former prisoner, being held in Qatar, made contact with the Taliban. The officials said it is unclear whether this was an actual attempt to rejoin the Taliban militants in Afghanistan.

[miked]

FU TRAITOR!

[larrymcg421]

Wait. Did we just have someone call for Obama's execution?

[JPhillips]

Amid an outbreak of measles that has spread across 14 states, Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey on Monday said that parents “need to have some measure of choice” about vaccinating their children against the virus, breaking with President Obama and much of the medical profession.

In remarks here, Mr. Christie stopped short of recommending that parents immunize their children against measles, or any other illness, calling for “balance” and “choice.”

In a sane world this would shitcan his presidential run.

[PilotMan]

People should be free to make the choices that they want, but they have to understand that when I call them stupid fucking idiots that they need to own that moniker too.

[ISiddiqui]

But he also said this beforehand:

Mr. Christie, when asked about the connection between the new measles cases and parents who object to the long-recommended vaccine against it, said that he and his wife had vaccinated their four children. He called that “the best expression I can give you of my opinion.”

[miked]

People who don't vaccinate their children should be publicly flogged. I guess it's just that most parents weren't alive when polio, small pox, and all these diseases infected thousands upon thousands and the average life expectancy was 10-15 years less.

[larrymcg421]

Parents should make their own decisions, but we should treat health workers like criminals.

[Butter]

So, for kids that aren't vaccinated, are they allowed in public schools? I know in my area, you have to present proof of vaccination to enroll your kids in school to begin with. I just wasn't sure if that was a law, or if there are ways around it, or what.

[Galaxy]

Vaccines should be required unless there is a medical exemption. States like Mississippi do not even allow exemptions based upon religious grounds.

[Galaxy]

Obama released his $3.901 billion budget proposal today. Obama 2015 budget: $3.9 trillion - POLITICO.com

Nothing but a wish list.

[ISiddiqui]

Why not? I mean it isn't like any budget he was going to propose would go anywhere in a GOP House & Senate, so why not send a wish budget over there? It'd, at least, be a good place to start negotiating.

[AENeuman]

Fun quote from Savage on measles, shifts the blame away from the anti-vaccine crowd:

“Measles had been nearly eradicated until about 15 years ago. When Clinton busted our border with Mexico, the floodgates were opened to infected migrants. Measles, TB, even malaria is returning! This is a form of medical genocide.”

He continued: “These illegal migrants may have a greater resistance to these illnesses owing to the fact they live in the midst of the infecting organisms. Our population is nearly ‘virgin’ to these infectious organisms. The killer flu raging through our population, measles, TB are all the result of this anti-American government.”

Read more at Savage: Disneyland measles part of Obama’s ‘medical genocide’

[flere-imsaho]

Show's he's learning. Don't send over a budget with compromise already built in.

[flere-imsaho]

Relevant: Migrant kids better vaccinated than U.S. kids, but Fox News stokes ‘germ’ fears anyway

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

But he also said this beforehand:

But that isn't anywhere near good enough for a governor who wants to be President. Compare what he said to Obama,

"I understand that there are families that, in some cases, are concerned about the effect of vaccinations," Obama said in a pre-Super Bowl interview with NBC's Savannah Guthrie on Sunday. "The science is, you know, pretty indisputable. We’ve looked at this again and again. There is every reason to get vaccinated, but there aren’t reasons to not."

"You should get your kids vaccinated," he added. "It's good for them and the challenge you have is if you have a certain group of kids who don't get vaccinated, and if it grows large enough that a percentage of the population doesn't get vaccinated and they're the folks who can't get vaccinated, small infants, for example ... they suddenly become much more vulnerable."

My biggest fear is that vaccinations will become another partisan issue. So far the anti-vaxers are mostly upper class liberals, but I'd bet we'll hear more on the right now that Obama is clearly pro-vaccination.

Another GOP candidate is pro-choice:

But Fiorina, the former CEO of Hewlett-Packard who is considering a 2016 presidential bid, added, “I think there’s a big difference between — just in terms of the mountains of evidence we have — a vaccination for measles and a vaccination when a girl is 10 or 11 or 12 for cervical cancer just in case she’s sexually active at 11. So, I think it’s hard to make a blanket statement about it. I certainly can understand a mother’s concerns about vaccinating a 10-year-old.”

She went on, “I think vaccinating for measles makes a lot of sense. But that’s me. I do think parents have to make those choices. I mean, I got measles as a kid. We used to all get measles… I got chicken pox, I got measles, I got mumps.”

[rowech]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

So, for kids that aren't vaccinated, are they allowed in public schools? I know in my area, you have to present proof of vaccination to enroll your kids in school to begin with. I just wasn't sure if that was a law, or if there are ways around it, or what.

This is not true for Ohio. You can get around it.

[miked]

Most places allow exemptions, be it religious, medical, or what not. For my kids in day care, the ones I've gone to (affiliated with the university or other accrediting bodies) you need a a verified Georgia Immunization form. For our public school, the requirements varied from county to county, but there are ways around it (not everyone can actually get a vaccine).

But none of the real issues with vaccines seem founded. I mean the side effects are rare, there are no known connections to cancer/autism/etc, but the risk of getting something is real. Now I actually believe that some vaccines should be optional (eg rotovirus) and some can be given later (like HepB and HPV), but there are some I think we should, as a country, have nationally mandated. I don't mind your dumb choices when it comes to eating McDs every day, or driving without your seatbelt on, let Darwin do his thing. But vaccines are something that are for the common good and affect people who can't yet make their own choices.

[ISiddiqui]

So, speaking of politicians speaking of vaccines

"We've seen just a skyrocketing autism rate. Some people are suspicious that it's connected to the vaccines. This person included. The science right now is inconclusive, but we have to research it."

--Barack Obama, Pennsylvania Rally, April 21, 2008.

Obama supports vaccines now — but pandered to anti-vaxxers in 2008 - Vox

[JPhillips]

And that's stupid, too.

[SirFozzie]

I like the Budget, with both the one time 14% tax on overseas held money by corporations, and then a 19% ongoing overseas held money.. too much money is being moved out of the country.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

too much money is being moved out of the country.

Agreed. They ought to stop making it so necessary, starting with a reasonable budget with realistic & worthwhile spending.

Instead, the war on success continues, I'm hard pressed to begrudge anyone for finding means to combat it.

[JPhillips]

Yeah taxes on the low end of post WW2 average and lower than most of the developed world really make it hard on the people with assets.

Who will think about the rich?

[JPhillips]

And Rand Paul makes three:

"I'm not anti-vaccine at all, but particularly, most of them ought to be voluntary," Paul said. "What happens if you have somebody not want to take the smallpox vaccine and it ruins it for everybody else? I think there are times in which there can be some rules, but for the most part it ought to be voluntary."

edit: It's even worse. Paul seems to buy the vaccine/autism link:

"I have heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines," Paul said.

[SirFozzie]

CNBC Now on Twitter: "BREAKING: FCC to forbid firms from slowing Internet traffic, regulate them like utility in new rules expected to be announced Thursday - DJ"

BREAKING: FCC to forbid firms from slowing Internet traffic, regulate them like utility in new rules expected to be announced Thursday - DJ

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

And Rand Paul makes three:



edit: It's even worse. Paul seems to buy the vaccine/autism link:

Maybe he can create a medical board that certifies the imaginary link between vaccines and autism.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Maybe he can create a medical board that certifies the imaginary link between vaccines and autism.

I know I'll get blasted but I have two friends and both of their sons were totally normal and then changed after the vaccinations. I can't say they were the cause but to deny watching normal kids go to autistic ones happening after them is to deny facts. My own belief is that it is caused more by chemicals in our foods or something like that and they then react with something in the vaccines rather than the vaccines themselves. There's a small part of me that wonders not about the vaccines so much as getting too many of them within a short span of time. I would never not vaccinate my children but it was enough that in the cases of their other children my friends either did not vaccinate or chose to space the vaccinations out much more.

[miked]

I agree that the schedule is aggressive, but most people can work with their doctors to put some off. Our son was sick for his 16 month check-up and he needed more vaccines when we finally got him in. Talked with the doctor and we thought giving him some that he missed was fine, and waiting a few months to "catch up" would be great. As I mentioned above, I can't think of a good reason to give a 1 year old a HepB vaccine (maybe one or two) but the odds of them contracting it are REALLY Low. That's a vaccine you can get when you are older. Also, the rotavirus infects so few people each year, it's almost silly to take it (20-50 deaths per year), but it can cause extensive morbidity and the "risk" of the vaccine probably does not outweigh the reward.

[albionmoonlight]

As a liberal, I am still disappointed to see the Dems wait until they have no power in Congress before proposing a liberal budget for show.

[JPhillips]

Have to give Carson credit for this.

"Although I strongly believe in individual rights and the rights of parents to raise their children as they see fit, I also recognize that public health and public safety are extremely important in our society,” Carson said in a statement to BuzzFeed News.

Carson said diseases of the past should not be allowed to return because of people avoiding vaccines on religious or philosophical grounds.

“Certain communicable diseases have been largely eradicated by immunization policies in this country and we should not allow those diseases to return by foregoing safe immunization programs, for philosophical, religious, or other reasons when we have the means to eradicate them,” Carson said in the statement.

[ISiddiqui]

Carson? As in the butler at Downton Abbey?

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by miked

I agree that the schedule is aggressive, but most people can work with their doctors to put some off. Our son was sick for his 16 month check-up and he needed more vaccines when we finally got him in. Talked with the doctor and we thought giving him some that he missed was fine, and waiting a few months to "catch up" would be great. As I mentioned above, I can't think of a good reason to give a 1 year old a HepB vaccine (maybe one or two) but the odds of them contracting it are REALLY Low. That's a vaccine you can get when you are older. Also, the rotavirus infects so few people each year, it's almost silly to take it (20-50 deaths per year), but it can cause extensive morbidity and the "risk" of the vaccine probably does not outweigh the reward.

They give the first part of the HepB vaccine at birth

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by rowech

I know I'll get blasted but I have two friends and both of their sons were totally normal and then changed after the vaccinations. I can't say they were the cause but to deny watching normal kids go to autistic ones happening after them is to deny facts. My own belief is that it is caused more by chemicals in our foods or something like that and they then react with something in the vaccines rather than the vaccines themselves. There's a small part of me that wonders not about the vaccines so much as getting too many of them within a short span of time. I would never not vaccinate my children but it was enough that in the cases of their other children my friends either did not vaccinate or chose to space the vaccinations out much more.

No, not blasted, because the original fear came from a real article published in a real medical journal. But the journal has admitted it was fooled and retracted the article. Many still believe it and autism rates are higher than they were in the past. Somewhere, there's a smoking gun, but it seems more than unlikely that it's vaccines. And the potential harm of not vaccinating is real.

[Edward64]

Nice for Hillary to jump in with a jibe. I think this will be a topic that comes up during the debates and somewhat problematic for Christi and Paul to find that balanced and nuance point to view to satisfy both sides.

Haven't seen any surveys but are significant/majority of GOP base anti-vaccine proponents? I would not have thought so?

Chris Christie, Rand Paul under fire for vaccine remarks | Fox News

Two potential candidates for the Republican presidential nomination in 2016 came under heavy criticism late Monday for stating that parents should have input about whether to vaccinate their children.

The remarks by New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie and Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul were not a departure from previously stated positions, but drew widespread attention as public health officials try to cope with a major measles outbreak that has infected over 100 people in several states.

Christie, who spoke Monday after making a tour of a biomedical research lab in Cambridge, England, said that he and his wife had vaccinated their children. However, the governor added, "I also understand that parents need to have some measure of choice in things as well. So that's the balance that the government has to decide."

Later Monday, Paul said in a radio interview that he believed most vaccines should be voluntary.

"I have heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking, normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines," Paul, an eye doctor, said in a subsequent interview while suggesting vaccines were "a good thing." ''But I think the parents should have some input. The state doesn't own your children."

Both men's staffs later sent out statements clarifying their remarks. Christie's spokesman said the governor believed that "with a disease like measles there is no question kids should be vaccinated." The statement from Paul's office pointed out that the senator's children have all been vaccinated and added that Paul "believes that vaccines have saved lives, and should be administered to children.

Hillary Clinton, the leading Democratic contender for the party nomination in 2016, couldn't resist taking a dig at the GOP hopefuls on Twitter.

"The science is clear: The earth is round, the sky is blue, and #vaccineswork. Let's protect all our kids. #GrandmothersKnowBest."

[JPhillips]

Remember the schedule was developed to ensure as many vaccinations as possible. Lots of kids don't see the doctor regularly, so the first few well baby appointments are the best chance to do full vaccinations. If you see the doctor regularly, almost every doctor will accommodate delaying some vaccines.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Carly Fiorina

She went on, “I think vaccinating for measles makes a lot of sense. But that’s me. I do think parents have to make those choices. I mean, I got measles as a kid. We used to all get measles… I got chicken pox, I got measles, I got mumps.”

This is such a stupid comment. People used to die, en masse, to the many diseases for which we now have vaccines. You don't just shrug and say it's an individual's choice. You show some fucking leadership and explain why it's for the common good.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Instead, the war on success continues, I'm hard pressed to begrudge anyone for finding means to combat it.

If there's a war on success, it kinda looks like success is winning:

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Remember the schedule was developed to ensure as many vaccinations as possible. Lots of kids don't see the doctor regularly, so the first few well baby appointments are the best chance to do full vaccinations. If you see the doctor regularly, almost every doctor will accommodate delaying some vaccines.

Exactly. These schedules aren't designed for people like those of us here at FOFC who tend to be good about health care, especially for our children.

These schedules are designed for the huge numbers of people who aren't going to be as careful as we are, or can't be. Read the fact sheet from the WHO and it's easy to see why it's a good reason to do this:

In highly endemic areas, HBV is most commonly spread from mother to child at birth, or from person to person in early childhood.

Perinatal or early childhood transmission may also account for more than one third of chronic infections in areas of low endemicity, although in those settings, sexual transmission and the use of contaminated needles, especially among injecting drug users, are the major routes of infection.

The hepatitis B virus can survive outside the body for at least 7 days. During this time, the virus can still cause infection if it enters the body of a person who is not protected by the vaccine.

The likelihood that infection with the hepatitis B virus becomes chronic depends upon the age at which a person becomes infected. Children less than 6 years of age who become infected with the hepatitis B virus are the most likely to develop chronic infections:
80–90% of infants infected during the first year of life develop chronic infections;
30–50%% of children infected before the age of 6 years develop chronic infections.

And no, I'm not talking about transmission via childhood sexual abuse, though clearly that's a deeply unfortunate problem. Given the methods of transmission described above, it's relatively easy to see how young children are especially susceptible to exposure and contraction. The vaccine makes a ton of sense, even (perhaps especially) in areas with low infection rates.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

This is such a stupid comment. People used to die, en masse, to the many diseases for which we now have vaccines. You don't just shrug and say it's an individual's choice. You show some fucking leadership and explain why it's for the common good.

To be fair, we also have a much cleaner and healthier environment. Having measles in a room filled with lead paint and asbestos was probably a more dangerous combination

[molson]

Random Obama thought, what's he going to do after 2016? He'll still a pretty young guy. It's hard to imagine him just retiring and laying low for decades, or even just having the Jimmy Carter elder statesman role. Could he go back into politics in some capacity? Will he be our first former president entertainment celebrity who guest hosts SNL and makes movie cameos?

[JPhillips]

I'd guess he'll do something like the Clinton Global Initiative.