2009 MLB Regular Season Thread

[stevew]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Zack was back in command tonight. 8 IP, 8 H- all singles, 1 R, 0 BB, and 5 K.

I'm getting a bit worried about his work, tho. The only game he hasn't gone 100+ pitches was his season debut with 95. Since then, he's gone 13 straight including 116, 114, 101, 116, and 115 coming into this game.

SI

The pirates got shut out by a nobody for 8 innings tonight. As per usual.

I fully expect them to chase Zach on sunday though, they seemingly get up for most major pitchers it seems.

Meche will probably no hit them on Saturday though.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

That was a brutal game to watch. The Yankees left 11 men on base and Hanson was all over the place. Wang wasn't bad but only got to throw 62 pitches because of the stupid NL rules. Phil Hughes was awesome as usual. I think Joba will be just as awesome tomorrow.

Dear god, you're a Yankee fan as well? What bandwagon haven't you jumped on?

[Tasan]

Someone shoot me. I can't take another one of these Rangers games. Josh Hamilton, please hurry back.

[Crapshoot]

Btw, Tim Lincecum is good.

9 IP, 12 K's, 1 ER (HR to Jason Giambi), 108 pitches.

[Jas_lov]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Dear god, you're a Yankee fan as well? What bandwagon haven't you jumped on?

Not sure what you're talking about. I've always been a Yankees fan and only a Yankees fan. I think you're confusing me with Roma Goth.

[Balldog]

Leyland brings in a RH pinch hitter despite a RHP on the mound and gets a walk-off 2 run shot to win 5-4.

After Zumaya blew the lead allowing a 2-run shot by Hoffpauir on changeup after blowing him away with 2 fastballs. The previous batter, Bradley, he struck out on a 104 mph fastball.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Could A-Rod's contract go down as the worst of all time?

Over 140 at-bats this season? The guy has averaged hitting over .300, 40 homers, and 120 RBIs a season since he signed that contract. He's off to a slow start this year but I'd still wager he finishes the year with around 30 homers and an average close to .300. Hard to find many players in the league who have been that consistent.

Maybe he's not worth the money, but I wouldn't consider it anywhere close to the worst of all time.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Over 140 at-bats this season? The guy has averaged hitting over .300, 40 homers, and 120 RBIs a season since he signed that contract. He's off to a slow start this year but I'd still wager he finishes the year with around 30 homers and an average close to .300. Hard to find many players in the league who have been that consistent.

Maybe he's not worth the money, but I wouldn't consider it anywhere close to the worst of all time.

Well, he's only had one season under the contract so I'm not sure where you are getting an average from.

My thinking is that the Yankees bid against themselves to sign him to a 10 year 275-300M dollar deal at the age of 32, and since then he has been revealed as a steroid user AND suffered a severe hip injury that could change what kind of a player he is. Add into that all the bad PR he brings.

I mean, there are 8.5 years left on that deal.

[Ksyrup]

To say it's a little too early to judge the ARod contract is an understatement. Even if this year is a write-off due to recovery from the injury, he still could be a great player for several more years. However, given that the Yankees obviously paid a premium for the guy with the thought of heavily promoting and cashing in on his all-time HR chase, and the steroids thing popping up, I'd say that contract is already not worth it - at least at the exact price they paid for him. In fact, I think he gets a $30M bonus for breaking the record.

If you throw on top of that a string of bad seasons, or missed time with various injuries, then yes, this contract would be one of the worst ever. It's like 3 times Hampton's contract, so he doesn't have to be completely out of the game for several years like Hampton was for it to be worse. I really don't have anything against ARod one way or the other, but since it's the Yankees, I hope they get as close to a negative return on investment as possible.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Obviously, right now, it's not the worst. But I think the potential for it to get there is fairly high.

People generally only get worse after 33. Unless they're juicing.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by stevew

The pirates got shut out by a nobody for 8 innings tonight. As per usual.

I fully expect them to chase Zach on sunday though, they seemingly get up for most major pitchers it seems.

Meche will probably no hit them on Saturday though.

Well, Meche isn't exactly a rube, having a 3.31 ERA coming into his last game (where he absolutely got shelled because Hillman criminally sent him out in the 9th his previous game with 115 pitches under his belt so he logged 132 with no off day before his next start). He's going Friday.

Speaking of rubes, we're going to have to call up some sort of something to pitch Saturday night, so you get to take your pick. Sidney Ponson, Bruce Chen, Kyle Davies... take your pick. If you get no hit on Saturday night, yeah, that's a problem.

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Speaking of rubes, we're going to have to call up some sort of something to pitch Saturday night, so you get to take your pick. Sidney Ponson, Bruce Chen, Kyle Davies... take your pick. If you get no hit on Saturday night, yeah, that's a problem.

SI

There's chatter in KC that they may run a 4 man rotation for one time around. May be just chatter, but it has been mentioned on the airwaves.

[sterlingice]

I just don't see how they can do that this time around with what they've done to those guys arms of late, particularly the big 2. Plus, we don't have another off day until the All Star Break. If they did that, it would be stupid.

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

If they did that, it would be stupid.

SI

What's your point?

[sterlingice]

I know, I know

SI

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

That was a brutal game to watch. The Yankees left 11 men on base and Hanson was all over the place.

Seriously... Hanson got out of it with no runs, but Holy Crap, that can't last forever. You can't let that many baserunners on. He does make games interesting though.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

To say it's a little too early to judge the ARod contract is an understatement. Even if this year is a write-off due to recovery from the injury, he still could be a great player for several more years.

Exactly right. What is intriguing is this "write-off" season, A-Rod has a 117 OPS+. I can see him returning to his MVP type performance after fully getting over the hip injury.

Though it will be incredibly interesting to see what happens when/if A-Rod approaches Bonds' record. I'm sure the publicity will be huge, which will get the Yankees very good return on that.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Say, should we do that for the Royals? Tony Pena Jr, Luis Hernandez, Tug Hulett- and that's just our no hit middle infielders and doesn't include Willie Bloomquist.

Say, ls, want to try the nats?

SI

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Oooh, I'll get that one started since I happened to notice their impressive pitching line tonight, with six pitchers all allowing runs against Boston (not sure how often that actually happens but seems like it would be at least a little unusual).

Actually though I recognize most of the names in tonight's boxscore, I couldn't have picked 2B Anderson Hernandez as a major league player from a list of random names, nor Alberto Gonzalez. The other 14 players they used I at least recognize their names. Oddly enough, the Red Sox also used two players tonight I'm not sure I could have identified as major leaguers either, catcher Dusty Brown who made his major league debut & reliever Daniel Bard.

I was surprised to be reminded that Kip Wells was still in the league at this point, he hasn't posted an ERA under 5.2 with any of the six teams he's played for since 2005. Even more surprised that he has the first two saves of his career. This guy has to be wondering if there's an easier way to make a living, having pitched for the following teams & their winning percentages: Tex '06 (.494), Pit '06 (.414), StL '07 (.481), KC '08 (.463), Col '08 (.457), Was '09 (.294). Throw in 2002-2005 with the Pirates and it's been 8 years since he pitched for a team that finished over .500, the White Sox back in 2000 & 2001.

Sorry, I was at the game last night so didn't get online to post.

We can start with the starting pitchers. While there is a lot of talent there, of the 5 pitchers 4 are rookies. The fifth is in his second year. On any other MLB roster Lannan would start and maybe Martis. That's it. The bullpen? Beimel would probably start elsewhere and maybe Vilone. Hanrahan a middle reliever elsewhere, but the Nats keep trying him as a closer. The infield starters for sure elsewhere are Zimmerman, Guzman and Johnson. I don't see Hernandez starting elsewhere nor any of the active catchers. Nieves might ride the pine somewhere else. The OF obviously has Dunn, but beyond that the best you have are young bench players elsewhere (Dukes, Willingham), utility players (Harris) or washed up guys in AAA (Kearns). I didn't bother looking at the 25-man roster, as just viewing the starting lineup shows how woeful it is.

And last nights loss was terrible. To the sell out crowd of Red Sox fans no less. Ugh. Really, it was probably 50/50, but Nationals fans don't do any cheering to rally their team.

[lordscarlet]

And, btw. I don't complain when in an AL stadium and your pussy pitchers can't get up to bat. The Nationals were even able to beat the Yankees in that situation!

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Exactly right. What is intriguing is this "write-off" season, A-Rod has a 117 OPS+. I can see him returning to his MVP type performance after fully getting over the hip injury.

That OPS+ is trending downwards, and fast. Over the last month (100 PA) his OPS is .600. I don't think it's a farfetched thought that he will have the rest of the hip surgery soon and be done for the year, he's been terrible out there.

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Seriously... Hanson got out of it with no runs, but Holy Crap, that can't last forever. You can't let that many baserunners on. He does make games interesting though.

He's just keeping it interesting before he blows away the opposition, similar to a cat playing with a mouse before the kill.

[ISiddiqui]

He wasn't exacly "blowing away" the opposition there . A few of those outs were close to being hits.

[Big Fo]

And at least one of those walks (to Jeter) was after a BS call with two strikes. Even without that he's still walking too many guys though.

Anyway everyone knows that win-loss record is the only true way to evaluate a starter and Hanson is perfect so far

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Obviously, right now, it's not the worst. But I think the potential for it to get there is fairly high.

People generally only get worse after 33. Unless they're juicing.

which we can now assume he is

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Exactly right. What is intriguing is this "write-off" season, A-Rod has a 117 OPS+. I can see him returning to his MVP type performance after fully getting over the hip injury.

Though it will be incredibly interesting to see what happens when/if A-Rod approaches Bonds' record. I'm sure the publicity will be huge, which will get the Yankees very good return on that.

The Yankees outlay on publicity may be huge, but i wonder if the public will care (because of the steroids and because he's a yankee and then the two things combined) or if the publicity coming back to them will be mostly negative?

[Big Fo]

re: A-Rod's contract

Did any info ever leak out about what teams other than the Yankees were offering?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

And at least one of those walks (to Jeter) was after a BS call with two strikes. Even without that he's still walking too many guys though.

If we are talking about BS calls, the strike zone was unusually generous widthwise to pitchers last evening. At least it benefited both teams (at least it appeared to from where I was sitting)

[larrymcg421]

How much did the Rockies end up paying Hampton? I know they didn't pay all of the $121 million, but they had to pay a pretty large portion of it because they were paying him even when he moved on to other teams.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

How much did the Rockies end up paying Hampton? I know they didn't pay all of the $121 million, but they had to pay a pretty large portion of it because they were paying him even when he moved on to other teams.

I'm sure the specifics are out there somewhere, but all I recall about his contract is that he got traded to the Marlins for like 2 days before they sent him to Atlanta, and I believe the Marlins ended up picking up some of his contract to make that deal happen, even though he never pitched for them. I don't recall the specifics, though.

[DeToxRox]

I'd say Denny Nagles contract was the worst ever.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I'm sure the specifics are out there somewhere, but all I recall about his contract is that he got traded to the Marlins for like 2 days before they sent him to Atlanta, and I believe the Marlins ended up picking up some of his contract to make that deal happen, even though he never pitched for them. I don't recall the specifics, though.

I was curious so I went and checked out the indispensable Cot's Baseball Contracts:

Originally Posted by cots

• 8 years/$121M (2001-08), plus 2009 club option
  • $20M signing bonus ($1M to charity, $19M deferred to 2009-18 at 3% interest)
  • 01:$8M, 02:$8.5M, 03:$11M, 04:$12M, 05:$12.5M, 06:$13.5M, 07:$14.5M, 08:$15M, 09:$20M club option ($6M buyout)
  • award bonuses: $0.15M (WS MVP), $0.1M (CY, LCS MVP), $50,000 (2-5 CY vote), $25,000 (All Star, Gold Glove Silver Slugger)
  • acquired by Atlanta 11/02 in trade with Colorado & Florida:
    • Colorado to pay $49M ($20M signing bonus, $8M in 2001, $8.5M in 2002, $2M in 2003, $2M in 2004, $2.5M in 2005, and $6M for 2009 buyout, which was converted to a signing bonus 11/02, eliminating club option)
    • Florida to pay $23.5M ($7M of 2003 salary, $8M in 2004, $8.5M in 2005
    • Atlanta to pay $48.5M ($2M of 2003 salary, $2M in 2004, $1.5M in 2005, $13.5M in 2006, $14.5M in 2007, $15M in 2008)

Florida first got Hampton and Juan Pierre ($6.6M the next 3 seasons) while sending to Colordo the contracts of Preston Wilson ($27.5M/3) and Charles Johnson ($25M/3) as well as Vic Darensbourg ($1.1M) and Pablo Ozuna. So, pure salary dump for the Fish.

Then Hampton gets dealt to the Braves with the Fish paying $23.5M and the Atlanta sending back Tim Spooneybarger and Ryan Baker.

So, in short:

Colorado gets: 2 crappy years of Mike Hampton for $49M, bloated contracts of Preston Wilson ($26.5/3) and Charles Johnson ($25M/3) as well as Vic Darnsbourg and Pablo Ozuna

Fish get: Out from under aforementioned contracts (51.5M/3) as well as Tim Spooneybargerand Ryan Baker for $23.5M, giving up Vic Darnsbourg and Pablo Ozuna

Braves give up Baker and Spooneybarger for a $48.5M/4 Mike Hampton who ends up being halfways decent for them.

I'd be curious to see what all of this looks like in WAR and WAR-dollars.

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Braves give up Baker and Spooneybarger for a $48.5M/4 Mike Hampton who ends up being wanted out of town by at least as many people as Rocker and/or Justice

Fixed that for you

[MikeVic]

Why did people hate Justice?

[ISiddiqui]

Yeah, I was wondering that myself. Never heard of that before.

[sterlingice]

Most of the transactions are dead ends but some are fun like tracing that Charles Johnson becomes Byung-Hyun Kim who becomes Jorge Julio. Or when Preston Wilson becomes JJ Davis and Zack Day, who was traded by Washington in 2005 and then reclaimed by them in 2006 when Colorado places him on waivers.

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Why did people hate Justice?

from the '95 WS Wiki
"Controversy struck on the morning of Game 6 when Atlanta newspapers printed stories that right fielder David Justice had ripped the city's fans for not matching their motivation of past seasons. Justice, who had been struggling in the postseason, was vilified before the game, but when his sixth inning home run broke a 0–0 tie, he became a hero."

He was indeed cheered that night but a lot of people never forgave or forgot him, his arrogance, and his mouth. I could live the rest of my life without ever laying eyes on the arrogant prick again & frankly, would just as soon have lost the WS than have him be the cocksucker that won Game 6.

Off the top of my head I can't recall hearing any player get more boos in his own stadium during a pivotal game before doing anything (i.e. he didn't go 0-4 with the bases loaded & get booed subsequently or something like that) than he was that night. Certainly some did forget in light of the home run, a lot of us haven't and never will.

edit to add: It's believed in some circles at least (i.e. I recall the discussion at the time, no idea what the conventional wisdom in baseball is today) that the incident played a big part (along with his general attitude, his salary, and his injury shortened season in '96) in him being traded to Cleveland the during spring training '97

[stevew]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Most of the transactions are dead ends but some are fun like tracing that Charles Johnson becomes Byung-Hyun Kim who becomes Jorge Julio. Or when Preston Wilson becomes JJ Davis and Zack Day, who was traded by Washington in 2005 and then reclaimed by them in 2006 when Colorado places him on waivers.

SI

We're still working on the tree of Ricardo Rincon-

Rincon becomes Giles

Giles becomes Bay and Oliver Perez

Bay becomes Andy Laroache, Brandon Moss, Craig Hansen, Brian Morris
Perez becomes Nady, who was the main trade chip for Ohlendorf/Karstens/Tabata/McCutcheon(not the good one).

[stevew]

Igawa cost the yankees $46M dollars, and he only won 2 games.

They at least got 9 wins out of Pavano.

[larrymcg421]

I have to say, while I think Justice is a jackass, his game 6 comments were 100% on the money.

[Big Fo]

That Grissom and Justice for Lofton trade was one of the worst moves Atlanta made during their run, made even worse by letting Lofton walk at the end of the year.

I have to say, while I think Justice is a jackass, his game 6 comments were 100% on the money.

I agree on the bolded part.

[miked]

Right, the fans in Atlanta DO suck. I've been to September games against the Mets in the heat of the race and seen a half-empty stadium. Most of the games I've been to have been fairly poorly attended, which says something when you can go for 6-12 bucks.

Granted, getting to the stadium can be a bit of a hassle at times, but having waded through the masses at Fenway plenty of times, I'd rather drive.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

his game 6 comments were 100% on the money.

And had no business coming from a player who routinely disappeared during the post-season (including that 95 WS except for one lucky swing).

[DaddyTorgo]

if i could go to a game for 6-12 bucks id go every night. fans elsewhere have it good man!!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miked

Granted, getting to the stadium can be a bit of a hassle at times

Now there's an understatement.

It's a lousy location in a bad part of town, parking is an absurd mess, I've never liked the new stadium, and at best you get what you pay for with those $6-$12 tickets (i.e. not much). And now it's a mediocre product at best. Truthfully, I'm amazed that they draw as well as they do at this point.

I think I've paid for tickets twice in the past 15 years, every other trip (including post-season, including The Night Sid Slid) has been company freebies. And if I didn't have a kid the number of times I'd have paid would be zero without a doubt. It's just a lousy bang for the buck (when you remember that there's a hell of lot more in the cost than just tickets) and hasn't been a good experience with the exception of the Braves museum since Turner Field opened.

I'm strongly considering a rare exception to that next month however, as they honor Maddux in July. But even that is still up in the air & we're talking about pretty much my favorite male athlete in my lifetime.

[larrymcg421]

I refuse to drive down there. I take MARTA from Five Points and hit the shuttle from there.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I refuse to drive down there. I take MARTA from Five Points and hit the shuttle from there.

Ah yes, Marta. If that isn't a good reason to stay away from Turner Field nothing is.

[ISiddiqui]

Oh please... its pretty easy to get to with MARTA. Why drive down to the stadium? The stadium seating is somewhat lame, but not absurdly so. It really is something that gets waaaay more lumps than justified (why Creative Loafing named it the most underrated thing in Atlanta).

It's almost a joke how empty the stadium usually is (not, of course, when the Cubs or Yankees or Red Sox are in town). Especially during playoffs. And don't care if someone sucks in the postseason, his comments were 100% on the money.

[larrymcg421]

MARTA may suck in a lot of ways, but they have excellent service to get to the Braves games. They have tons of shuttles running, enough so that I've never had to wait more than 3 minutes to get on one going there or coming back.

[miked]

I actually find driving there pretty easy. Then again, I usually sneak in from 20 and Moreland. I'm in the parking lot usually about 10 minutes after getting off the highway, and if you're taking I20 home (away from the connector) you can be from the lot to the highway in about 5 minutes. Of course we went a few weeks ago and the back entrances to the lots were all barricaded, meaning I had to drive from 20 up to Hank Aaron Drive and enter from there. All told though, I parked near the back, walked to the stadium in <10 minutes and we sat happily in our $6 seats. I actually think the stadium is laid out fairly well and never miss any action in my cheap seats.

I'm just amazed that it's so damn cheap and people still don't go. I mean, the product could be better, but Chipper, McCann, Lowe, Vazquez, Soriano, and a few others have played fairly well.

MARTA to the stadium is too much of a hassle, going to Underground and waiting for shuttles is silly. MARTA is the the bomb for going to the Georgia Dome or Phillips.

[larrymcg421]

All this talk is making me think we need to have an FOFC meetup at a Braves game.