Werewolf XLV - ROME! (Game over, post 3425)

[Poli]

I'm guessing that means Kwhit won the swordsman, as DC said she was bidding on me.

[Grammaticus]

I was thinking Kwhit too, but DC has not really been very amicable or forthcoming. Not sure whether or not to trust her in going for who she said she would go for.

[Barkeep49]

I did not get Ardent. I am assuming DC did.

I would point out that while people have been uneasy about me, the facts against DC are stronger. She has been in a position of wealth and has done little for the communal good. Where as yesterday she could have guaranteed us the swordsman, instead she's likely taken Ardent again and we have no clue who has the swordsman, whether good or bad. Please join me in voting for DC today to be thrown off the rock.

[Coffee Warlord]

Reading. I see some lawyer clarification a few pages back, I'll respond shortly.

[Coffee Warlord]

Anxiety - Question for you regarding lawyer use. Would you have had the ability to do both a scan and a prosecution yesterday? Could you have given Ardent's services to the Senate to prosecute our jailed members yesterday AND do a scan?

Which Anxiety said no to. Which...it half fits, it half doesn't.

The one time I had the lawyer, I did indeed have the option of using him for the Senate as a prosecutor, or using him for my own benefit as a defender/lawsuit machine. It was very clear that I could use the lawyer for both my PERSONAL treason defense (remember, I was in jail), and the lawsuit I had going.

And I also had the scanning ability, which is where it gets unclear. I was not informed that, if I appointed the lawyer to the Senate, I would not get a scan. Mind you, I inquired further about that option (appointing him to the senate), because obviously I had other uses for him that day.

Long story short, I cannot fully confirm or deny what Anxiety said on this one.

I wasn't told it was an either/or option, but that may have come from a clarification that I didn't get 'cause I didn't go the Senate route for the lawyer.

[Grammaticus]

DC, did you get Ardent, the swordman, etc.?

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Which Anxiety said no to. Which...it half fits, it half doesn't.

The one time I had the lawyer, I did indeed have the option of using him for the Senate as a prosecutor, or using him for my own benefit as a defender/lawsuit machine. It was very clear that I could use the lawyer for both my PERSONAL treason defense (remember, I was in jail), and the lawsuit I had going.

And I also had the scanning ability, which is where it gets unclear. I was not informed that, if I appointed the lawyer to the Senate, I would not get a scan. Mind you, I inquired further about that option (appointing him to the senate), because obviously I had other uses for him that day.

Long story short, I cannot fully confirm or deny what Anxiety said on this one.

I wasn't told it was an either/or option, but that may have come from a clarification that I didn't get 'cause I didn't go the Senate route for the lawyer.

It sounds like you are both saying that if you give the Lawyer to the Senate to prosecute, you do not also get a personal scan, correct?

[Coffee Warlord]

Re-read. I was not explicitly told that.

[Grammaticus]

Well, it would sort of make sense as we would get two scans from one lawyer if you could use the lawyer for a senate prosection and a personal scan.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I did not get Ardent. I am assuming DC did.

I would point out that while people have been uneasy about me, the facts against DC are stronger. She has been in a position of wealth and has done little for the communal good. Where as yesterday she could have guaranteed us the swordsman, instead she's likely taken Ardent again and we have no clue who has the swordsman, whether good or bad. Please join me in voting for DC today to be thrown off the rock.

I tend to agree, but from what I see, DC got herself into this mess by being so belligerent in the first place, which seems like an odd wolf move. I don't have much suspicion of Barkeep, so I'm likely to throw my vote at DC, but I'll give her some time today.

[Narcizo]

I only have a matter of 15 minutes and then I won't be here for the rest of the day. I have been hoping for a bit more information to be forthcoming but that turns out not to be the case. I had also sort of been hoping for a scan of DC or Barkeep but Anxiety's post suggests that isn't going to happen. I don't know what is going to come of CR plan but I honestly think it seems to be working and I would ask people to consider implementing it again. I'll not be able to participate, obviously, as I'm not going to be here again.

I'm going to

Vote execute Dodgerchick

I've finally got a bit of information to back this up for the first time in the game.
-1) I still think that there's a rich person in the wolves. DC fits the bill. See previous posts for my explanations about this.
-2) She was very doubtful about CR's plan. Fair enough I can understand people not wanting to advertise that they should be killed. But I honestly think CR's plan is a way to start garnering solid information, rather than the hunches and suspicions we've been going on up till now. Had KWhit not switched his bid to the Swordsman DC would have jeopardised the whole plan. So a plus for KWhit and a big minus for DC in my book.
3) Her wealth has put her in a position to really help the village. In my book I don't think she has really done so.
4) There's the question I raised of someone possibly killing Swaggs because they knew what the lawyer could do. It seems like there's a good chance that that comes down to DC or CW. It might not be anything but then again it might.

-1) She cleared Autumn who I trust. However it's not unknown for a wolf to clear in order to build up some trust. With the added bonus that if they go down the villager will probably go with them.
-2) Her massive reaction a couple of days ago. So maybe she was annoyed but at the fact that people were starting to question her in her role as a wolf. I don't really know anything about DC's personally, so I can't judge her based on that.

Meanwhile - Barkeep
-1) There's my impression that something wasn't right with Barkeep in the first few days. I think a couple of other people mentioned it as well.
-2) There's CR's theory that one of the wolves must be in the group of five including Barkeep. I don't know. It made sense to me at the time and it's something we might want to look at again. But I don't think it's enough to warrant an execution today.

On the other hand
+1) I don't think a wolf would make a strong play to become consul and then mess it up quite so catastrophically.
+2) He was amenable to CR's plan. Admittedly you can say "well, it's easy for him to be when he's not really in the reckoning", but still it's a plus in my book.

I'm not even considering a vote to acquit both. We need to start gathering voting patterns.

I would normally say who I would like to see arrested at this stage but I think we need for the picture about who got what services to emerge. Sorry consuls. I know how it feels.

That's me for today. Good luck with the analysis of the list.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

So, let me get this straight, Anxiety was supposed to get the pimp, but instead took me?

Two days ago, I wasn;t supposed to take anybody there bub

[Grammaticus]

So Anxiety, what services did you get?

[Abe Sargent]

I got the slaves obviously

[Poli]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Two days ago, I wasn;t supposed to take anybody there bub

Already duly noted there, bub.

[Abe Sargent]

No one else in the top area claims to have gotten them, it was mentioned that they didn;t fall, so someone in the top took them. They aren't all that powerful. If someone in the top six or seven or however many are on CR's list has the slaves, and I was the only one in that group to sauy that they were going to take them, then its not too hard to beleive that I got them and that I'm telling the truth when I say I got them as well.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Already duly noted there, bub.

Yeah, well, it hadn;t been while I was catching up.

[Mustang]

Ok.. back from freakin Disaster Recovery.

What the hell mechanic is in play where some senators WIN all their lawsuits all the freakin time and others lose all the time?

[Poli]

Vote to throw DC off the cliff.

While part of me wants to see the BK tossed, I think there is growing evidence that DC may have been bluffing this entire time.

I'm more than interested to hear from Kwhit and DC on this matter.

[DaddyTorgo]

if we're all that afraid of DC, why not just have the swordsman kill her? am I missing something there? it worries me that she's been constantly hiring ardent...something's going on there.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

if we're all that afraid of DC, why not just have the swordsman kill her? am I missing something there? it worries me that she's been constantly hiring ardent...something's going on there.

I'd be all for that were it not for the fact that she's already in jail. Are you suggesting we should both be killed? I think DC's hesitation and hostility are different from other games and she is the first person this game who I feel good about voting for, aside from the fact that it also saves my neck .

[DaddyTorgo]

oh. I missed the fact that she was in jail as I was speed-reading through the morning's posts

[Passacaglia]

Yeah, I say use the swordsman if this doesn't work. But, I'm not convinced she's evil yet.

[Tyrith]

Really looking forward to KWhit confirming what he got.

I generally agree with Ironhead and CR's logic about our wolf pack. Anxiety and path stick out to me as the most likely problems on that list -- we still don't really know about either of them, do we? But how everything goes down today is going to be really telling as to who we need to be looking at going forward.

DC...is an interesting case. Her emotional outburst really makes me think she's innocent. Nothing she's really done in the past makes me think she's the kind of person that can fake that kind of outrage...but it's not impossible she learned how, one way or another. But if she's really as hotheaded as she seems she is , then it's probably legit. Really hard to control/fake that kind of stuff.

However, I don't have a particular reason to chuck BK off the cliff. I don't really have a particular reason to NOT chuck him off the cliff, though. For now I'm going to hold judgment until DC tells us what she did last night and what she's doing today.

[Grammaticus]

Don't use the swordman on her if she is already in jail. That just does not make sense.

Vote to send Dogeius Erchickus to the Rock

[Poli]

Kinda weird not having kwhit around today.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

DC...is an interesting case. Her emotional outburst really makes me think she's innocent. Nothing she's really done in the past makes me think she's the kind of person that can fake that kind of outrage...but it's not impossible she learned how, one way or another. But if she's really as hotheaded as she seems she is , then it's probably legit. Really hard to control/fake that kind of stuff.

Except that this would be her first time as a wolf. We have no idea what her wolfish play is. And I point out I had my own moment of outrage after KWhit and I failed to arrest two people on our first day as consuls.

[Grammaticus]

Is there an out of game reason why Kwhit is not around?

[Ironhead]

I am at work so I don't have a lot of time to elaborate on this and will not be on to post again until probably 6 pm est.

Originally Posted by st.cronin

The following are the recorded votes for Consul:

Anxiety             Barkeep, DaddyTorgo
Ardent              Ardent, Autumn
Autumn             Autumn, Ironhead
Barkeep             Barkeep, KWhit
Chief Rum          Ironhead, Passacaglia
Chubby  
Coffee Warlord   KWhit, Coffee Warlord
Daddy              KWhit, DaddyTorgo
Dodgerchick       Dodgerchick, Autumn
Grammaticus      Grammaticus, Ironhead
Ironhead           Ironhead, Autumn
Kwhit               Autumn, Coffee
Mustang  
Narcizo             Autumn, Ironhead
Neon Chaos
Passacaglia       Passacaglia
Path12             Autumn, KWhit
Peregrine          KWhit, Ironhead
Tyrith              Ironhead, Autumn

Post #2244

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

VOTE IRONHEAD CONSUL
VOTE KWHIT CONSUL

VOTE "MAKE THE BAD MAN FLY MOMMY! MAKE HIM FLY!!" (throw Neon_Chaos off the rock)

I went back and checked everyone's vote against what the final "recorded" votes were. The only in thread vote that didn't match the final votes was DaddyTorgo's vote for me as Consul - the final vote was changed to himself. As far as I know the only way to change a vote is with the Priest, who Coffee Warlord had stated he won in the thread yesterday. He even stated that it was a "worthless" service.

So assuming he wasn't lying about having the service why did he take the time to change a vote away from me as Consul? I could go back and try to figure out a timeline of votes later, but I don't think DT was ever really in the running to win as Consul yesterday. I don't think this speaks to guilt on DaddyTorgo as much as it is a very curious move by CW.

[Chief Rum]

All right, here is the current wealth list, with suggested bids:

The following are the wealthiest men in Rome:

Ardentus Enthusiastus-- sword killer (already bid, I believe)
Kayus Whitus-- ardent lawyer (i think we should prioritize putting ardent in someone's service besides DC)


The following Senators are known as extremely wealthy:

Abeus Anxietus-- narcizo lawyer (tryingf to change up where possible)
Dodgeus Erchickus-- can't bid today, in jail
Passus Caglius-- sex slaves
Pathus Twelveus-- one of the two bodyguards--pick one and be absolutely clear who you're picking


The following Senators are known as moderately wealthy:

Barkeepus Valerius Fortynineus-- can't bid today, in jail
Coffeus Yakus Warlordus-- which ever bodyguard path12 doesn't pick, or if path12 comes later, path12 should pick whatever BG CW doesn't pick
Grammus Atticus-- backup sex slaves bid
Ironus Headus-- backup sword killer bid
Narcizus Lispus-- won't be able to bid today

The following remaining Senators are of normal wealth:


Autumnus Leavus -- backup ardent lawyer bid
Chiefus Rumus-- backup narcizo lawyer bid
Chubbus Chubbus
Daddus Torgous
Mustangus Sallus
Tyrus Ithus

I am in and out today, so I can't really flesh this out or give more suggestions. Some of you here will have to be custodians of seeing this all done.

My bid for Narcizo's services is in.

I will submit votes in a second.

[Poli]

You are correct, my bid is in.

[Chief Rum]

EXECUTE DODGERCHICK

She might be good and just misguided, but we can't make that assumption. Sorry DC, but we were always headed to this point.

I don't have arrest suspects right now, although I am leaning toward Coffee Warlord because of growing suspicious activity. It might be time to just remove Chubby from the game, too. It's clear he isn't participating.

I am out for the day. Good luck everyone.

[Grammaticus]

Okay, I have put in my backup bid for durus pimpus.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

Care to expand on that? To me it seemed the only arrest to make, almost everyone wanted it, herself included.

It's more meta than anything else. DC has never been a wolf, and she has been increasingly frustrated at times (personally I think she's being way too hard on herself) with in game situations that come up. Her blowup strikes me as a buildup of frustration for feeling like she made a mistake and is totally in character with being innocent in my opinion.

I could be wrong, but if she was bad I think she would not pick this time to blow up. So I think it was a waste because I don't think she's guilty. But I don't get the case against Barkeep either, so I find myself with the dilemma of having to choose between two people I kind of trust. Such is WW.

[DaddyTorgo]

VERY VERY INTERESTING IRONHEAD!

I know that I voted for you because as I said, I feel like you've been right on, and I didn't think electing myself consul would be as good as electing you consul.

So my vote was changed hmmm? Very curious CW.

I vote that our consuls move to arrest him.

[DaddyTorgo]

i vote arrest chubby and arrest CW.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Ironhead

So assuming he wasn't lying about having the service why did he take the time to change a vote away from me as Consul? I could go back and try to figure out a timeline of votes later, but I don't think DT was ever really in the running to win as Consul yesterday. I don't think this speaks to guilt on DaddyTorgo as much as it is a very curious move by CW.

Further interesting due to the fact that I absolutely did not send in an order to use his services yesterday.

[Grammaticus]

Good spot Iron Head.

[Poli]

This is getting interesting.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

Sorry. Didn't realise that. I'm going to redo this in the same format then, just because I think it's a bit clearer. And I want the glory of having my list quoted and altered.

The wealthiest men in Rome are:
Abeus Anxietus - Bid Pimp Bloke #2088/#2200 -
Dodgeus Erchickus - Bid Ardent #2205
Kayus Whitus - Bid Swordsman #2224

The following Senators are known to be extremely wealthy:
Coffeus Yakus Warlordus - Bid Swordsman #2071. Failed #2294.
Ironus Headus - Bid Senna #2269. Failed #2331
Passus Caglius - Bid Vitus Avidus #2069
Pathus Twelvus - Bid Ardent #2275. Failed #2340

The following Senators are of moderate wealth:
Autumnus Leavus - Failed on Ardent #2327
Barkeepus Valerius Fortynineus - Vote Ardent #2192.
Chiefus Rumus - Bid Pimp #2059 Failed #2370
Narcizus Lispus - [Bid Swordsman]Failed #2353.

The following (remaining) Senators are of ordinary wealth for the Senatorial class:
Ardentus Enthusiastus - ?
Chubbus Chubbus - couldn't bid
Daddyus Torgous - ?
Grammus Atticus - Bid Swordsman #2206. Failed #2328
Mustangus Sallus - ?
Tyrus Ithus - Fastus Felix #2314

I'm keeping completely out of the conjecture side until we have more data but CR's right. it appears that someone in the top seven is lying. And lying about the philosopher. Which, if I've read correctly and I'm not banking on it, means that there's a good chance of there being a conversion today.

I want to clear up my bid. I bid for Ardent the day before this. On the bids being described above I made a backup bid for the sex slaves and lost.

[Poli]

As for who I'd like to see jailed, I'd go with DaddyTorgo or Path12.

A tertiary (not sure if I spelled that correctly) choice would be Tyrith.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I tend to agree, but from what I see, DC got herself into this mess by being so belligerent in the first place, which seems like an odd wolf move. I don't have much suspicion of Barkeep, so I'm likely to throw my vote at DC, but I'll give her some time today.

I still have a hard time seeing Dodgerus CHickus as a traitor. It doesn't make much sense. If she is a traitor then we have to consider her use of services. Either:

1) She's been telloing the truth about the services she obtained. The use of the sex slaves was confirmed by Ironus Headus. If she was a traitor why would she choose to scan AlanT, myself and Swaggus and confirm us as loyal? I know I actually am loyal, and the others were killed by poison.

2) She's been lying about her service bids (either in league with Ironhead or only lying about the lawyer bids). She was using her bids for other services or using the lawyers in ohter ways, but pretending to use the lawyer scan on the above people.

Pretending to use the lawyer, but actually bidding on other services would be a devious traitor route to go, certainly. But if so, why scan and confirm loyalty for three people who actually are loyal? Woudln't it be much smarter to cast doubt on some loyal people and confuse us, or confirm some traitors as loyal? That seems too ridiculous a move by a wolf to believe.

That would have to be either a move to make us trust her, or just poor play. Given how well the traitors are doing, I don't believe they're playing poorly. And why would the traitors waste the wealthiest Roman on all this just to trick us?

I'm going to vote to free Dodgerchick. I think there's too much evidence showing that she's been playing on the loyal side. Yes, I wish she had done other things with some of her bids. But if she's scanned three loyal people, and blocked a player with the killer as her moves, she must be the worst traitor ever!

Barkeepus I don't have a strong sense on. I've suspected him at times. I don't have strong evidence, as I do with Dodgerus Chickus, that he's loyal. So I am going to vote EXECUTE BARKEEPUS unless I see some strong evidence in his favor.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

All right, here is the current wealth list, with suggested bids:

The following are the wealthiest men in Rome:

Ardentus Enthusiastus-- sword killer (already bid, I believe)
Kayus Whitus-- ardent lawyer (i think we should prioritize putting ardent in someone's service besides DC)


The following Senators are known as extremely wealthy:

Abeus Anxietus-- narcizo lawyer (tryingf to change up where possible)
Dodgeus Erchickus-- can't bid today, in jail
Passus Caglius-- sex slaves
Pathus Twelveus-- one of the two bodyguards--pick one and be absolutely clear who you're picking


The following Senators are known as moderately wealthy:

Barkeepus Valerius Fortynineus-- can't bid today, in jail
Coffeus Yakus Warlordus-- which ever bodyguard path12 doesn't pick, or if path12 comes later, path12 should pick whatever BG CW doesn't pick
Grammus Atticus-- backup sex slaves bid
Ironus Headus-- backup sword killer bid
Narcizus Lispus-- won't be able to bid today

The following remaining Senators are of normal wealth:


Autumnus Leavus -- backup ardent lawyer bid
Chiefus Rumus-- backup narcizo lawyer bid
Chubbus Chubbus
Daddus Torgous
Mustangus Sallus
Tyrus Ithus

I am in and out today, so I can't really flesh this out or give more suggestions. Some of you here will have to be custodians of seeing this all done.

My bid for Narcizo's services is in.

I will submit votes in a second.

I will submit a backup bid for ARdentus.

[path12]

We haven't gotten confirmation yet as to who DC bid on and if she got that person, right?

[path12]

I will bid on the first bodyguard listed, whoever that is.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

If we believe Ironhead (I do), there is a definite Tarq in the following group:

Dodgerchick
KWhit
Anxiety

Passacaglia
Coffee Warlord
path12

Ironhead bid on Balbus Senna and did not get him. Only these six had the possible ability to outbid him for Senna. Which means the Tarqs may have control of a conversion skill tonight.

CW and path have said they did not get their bids. We have not heard from the other four (about their bids anyway). We had bids for the sword killer, sex slaves and ardent not get past this group, judging from bids from the next tier not coming through, so for sure, those three are also in this group. If the top three did as they said they would, they will be the three with those services.

Keep in mind nothing here says there isn't more than one Tarq in this group either. But for sure, there is one.

BTW, the odds are slim my Day One sword killer patron and the Balbus Senna usurper are one and the same, but path12 is the only one of the above who appeared on both lists. I haven't yet decided how far to think that out yet.

As I've stated elsewhere, I don't suspect Dodgerchick. The rest of this list though seem worthy of suspicion. If no one has evidence or a scan on any of these, we will have to find some way to pick from them.

I'm trying to catch up. Has Ironhead chosen an arrest suspect yet?

[Poli]

Not to my knowledge.

[st.cronin]

I have made numerous data errors in this game (although none that have significantly effected any results). There were no votes changed behind doors yesterday. If a vote was recorded wrong, I take the blame. Although I will say in my defense that people have been using lots of bold and other crazy fonts for things other than voting, and sometimes in the same post where they do vote.

[Grammaticus]

Anxietus said he won his bid. The other top tier bidders have not commented on their outcome.

[Abe Sargent]

st.cronin says: Knock it Off