The Trump Presidency – 2016

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by bbgunn

Okay, I'll play the little game.

2. Using the court against Obama. Trump knows this executive order will get blocked by the Supreme Court and that he will have ...
*an opportunity to say that what Obama did was also illegal and press for him to get thrown in jail or something
*the ability to just ban all immigration. Because if the EO gets thrown out because it is deemed a "Muslim ban", then why not just ban everybody then? That way, it doesn't discriminate.

A decent try, but not what I was thinking of.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I agree that in polling, there's certainly a point at which a certain question (or an entire poll) becomes, in the mind of the person answering, just a proxy for "do you support the red/blue team?" And once someone on team blue hears/interprets that the question is "do you support team red" they will reject the question... with the appropriate parallels and converses as appropriate.

I think that's what leads to many seemingly strange findings... like the "Bowling Green Massacre" question that locked in half of Trump voters to agreeing that it happened. Because the question went on to ask whether the BGM supported the need for the immigration ban, that made it smell like a fairly simple "do you support Trump" question and th rest sort of withers away.

Similar situation when Democrats were polled on whether they believe Russia hacked the election. Not talking spreading information, but actually hacked machines. 50% or so said yes.

My hope is we don't have that many stupid people on both sides but who knows.

[JonInMiddleGA]

bbgunn's post reminded me that I guess I should finish my thought.

I'm actually legit surprised that nobody hit on it fairly easily.

I think the long game here is to get a call for a new Constitutional Convention and neuter the federal courts.

It's not an original idea, it's a complete hail mary ... and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he managed to pull it off (in part because it isn't something that hasn't been discussed before).

[bbgunn]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

A decent try, but not what I was thinking of.

How about this, then (and this is scary as hell):

- EO gets blocked in the Supreme Court
- USA gets hit by a terrorist attack
- Trump and co. say, "Judges stopped us from doing anything. Our hands were tied."
- With the support of the public, Congress severely weakens the judges' ability to counter EOs and presidential edicts
- Trump and co. can rule as they see fit

[bbgunn]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

bbgunn's post reminded me that I guess I should finish my thought.

I'm actually legit surprised that nobody hit on it fairly easily.

I think the long game here is to get a call for a new Constitutional Convention and neuter the federal courts.

It's not an original idea, it's a complete hail mary ... and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he managed to pull it off (in part because it isn't something that hasn't been discussed before).

Ah, you beat me to it!

Oh, and dola.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Stephen Miller is one scary dude.

That's the guy who was mentored by a white supremacist, right?

[Flasch186]

Miller is the first one that Im not finding somewhat entertaining. His round this weekend was scary.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

That's the guy who was mentored by a white supremacist, right?

He and Spencer were friends at Duke.

[Jas_lov]

Michael Flynn has to go, right? He's already admitted to lying to Pence. He's been compromised by Russia. They can't just sweep this one under the rug.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

Michael Flynn has to go, right? He's already admitted to lying to Pence. He's been compromised by Russia. They can't just sweep this one under the rug.

Only if the Republicans find their balls about it. Otherwise, it's partisan bickering.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

Michael Flynn has to go, right? He's already admitted to lying to Pence. He's been compromised by Russia. They can't just sweep this one under the rug.

Why is talking to an ally a big deal?

[Draft Dodger]

In my book, Flynn's error may not even crack the top 10 or even top 20 on the list of dumb things done by President Stupid and his band of idiots*

*so far

[Ryche]

He gone

[CrimsonFox]

He resignamundo!

Keep em comin'!

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

Michael Flynn has to go, right? He's already admitted to lying to Pence. He's been compromised by Russia. They can't just sweep this one under the rug.

Incidently yes they can, really. They've been sweeping things under the rug forever. The attitude of "what are you gonna do about it?" had been around for awhile now . Really surprised at the result actually.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Surprised as well. Flynn likely has more actual real-world value than Pence, so it's a shame to lose a useful guy but ... oh well.

[bronconick]

He and his son have more time to get to the bottom of PizzaGate now.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Surprised as well. Flynn likely has more actual real-world value than Pence, so it's a shame to lose a useful guy but ... oh well.

Just a pawn in the master plan, right...

[CrescentMoonie]

There's no real world value to a guy who was fired for incompetence and is clearly in cahoots with a known enemy. The fact that he's shown that he'll ignore factual information in favor of conspiracy theories would have been enough for a real president to not consider him for any position. He's also pretty clearly unqualified for the level of clearance he was going to have.

Hopefully he'll be prosecuted.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Surprised as well. Flynn likely has more actual real-world value than Pence, so it's a shame to lose a useful guy but ... oh well.

What real world value did he have?

[rjolley]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

What real world value did he have?

A patsy. A fall guy. A red herring. A distraction.

[Ajaxab]

Originally Posted by rjolley

A patsy. A fall guy. A red herring. A distraction.

I must be playing too much Darkest Dungeon lately because I heard this post in the game's narrator's voice.

[Ben E Lou]

I could have written this article myself. It's pretty much a bulls-eye for where I stand (though I'm having a hard time working on the part about showing respect. I probably should focus on the office, not who holds it.)

Especially this part (I think I've written something very similar in my blog, actually.)

I stand for the vulnerable refugee in the same way that I have always stood for the vulnerable unborn. It is a biblically-driven justice and human rights stance, plain and simple. I have no personal beef with President Obama or President Trump. For this reason, my liberal friends sometimes suspect me of being a Republican and my conservative friends sometimes suspect me of being a Democrat. You might say that I am one of those pastors who feels too conservative for his liberal friends and too liberal for his conservative friends. If this is an outcome of following the whole Jesus instead of merely following part of him, then sign me up and so be it.

https://scottsauls.com/2017/02/13/na...rity-refugees/

[Drake]

That's a great post, Ben. Thanks for sharing it.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

I could have written this article myself. It's pretty much a bulls-eye for where I stand (though I'm having a hard time working on the part about showing respect. I probably should focus on the office, not who holds it.)

Especially this part (I think I've written something very similar in my blog, actually.)



https://scottsauls.com/2017/02/13/na...rity-refugees/

If you haven't read Scott's books, especially Jesus Outside the Lines, do so now.

[Easy Mac]

So the Republicans are more worried about leaks than the continued ties to Russia? Great pivot.

Trump, GOP lawmakers eye 'illegal' leaks in wake of Flynn resignation | Fox News

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I'm pretty intrigued by the 'first lady' role in this presidency and who's really playing it. While Melania is obviously the true first lady, it really seems like Ivanka is the one pulling far more strings in the White House. She's making a ton of social media posts where she's in photos with her father and other cabinet and world leaders. At a minimum, he's definitely pushing her to the forefront with Melania playing the 'wifely duties' role thus far.

[Bisbo]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

What real world value did he have?

Well, he blew the doors off of the child sex ring sponsored by HRC under the pizza store in DC, didn't he?

[stevew]

Inclined to think this presidency may not make it to Christmas at this rate and maybe sooner than that.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

So the Republicans are more worried about leaks than the continued ties to Russia? Great pivot.

Trump, GOP lawmakers eye 'illegal' leaks in wake of Flynn resignation | Fox News

I thought Trump loved leaked information? Encouraged it even.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by stevew

Inclined to think this presidency may not make it to Christmas at this rate and maybe sooner than that.

Let me start by saying I think by far the most likely outcome is that Trump stays president through the 208 elections.

But, if the GOP is thinking about a way to get rid of him, the sooner the better I would think. Not only does damage from his WH continue, but any impeachment is going to take time to heal. As things get closer to the 2018 election I think it's less likely an impeachment, for almost any reason, will occur.

The optimal outcome would be a Trump resignation, but that seems highly unlikely. Regardless, I think Pence is the most dangerous man in Washington. He has no real loyalty to Trump, can't be fired, and gets all the spoils if Trump goes away.

[RainMaker]

They can't get rid of him because he is their base these days. There is a reason guys like Ryan are bending the knee.

[RainMaker]

The most disturbing part about Flynn is he had access to the highest levels of classified info for at least a month. Who knows how much damage that has done.

The resignation does seem to have spooked Russia quite a bit.

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/14/russi...-of-flynn.html

Seen a lot of candidates thrown around. Surprised Patraeus is one of them. I actually think this would be a great spot for him but it's kind of tough to put a felon in that position. Especially one who violated the UCMJ. And while I'm not a huge fan of Bolton, I would feel comfortable with him in that position as well. He is experienced in that field and would not bow to Russia.

[bhlloy]

My initial reaction is Ivanka 2020 is totally going to be a thing. And there's no way Trump leaves office at the bequest of Republicans, as much as everyone would like to think.

[CrescentMoonie]

Well, so far today the WH has reversed course and said that Flynn was fired and they expect Russia to give Crimea back. I wonder what their story will be tomorrow?

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

They can't get rid of him because he is their base these days. There is a reason guys like Ryan are bending the knee.

Yeah, for all the media is acting like these revelations change anything, Trump's base approval is doing just fine. I don't see him in any stronger or weaker of a position than he was in on inauguration day.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Seen a lot of candidates thrown around. Surprised Patraeus is one of them. I actually think this would be a great spot for him but it's kind of tough to put a felon in that position.

when a candidate would have to notify his probation officer if he got the job, you'd think that might hurt his chances.

it probably won't hurt his chances.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

So the Republicans are more worried about leaks than the continued ties to Russia? Great pivot.

Trump, GOP lawmakers eye 'illegal' leaks in wake of Flynn resignation | Fox News

To be fair, hypocrisy aside, at least now they are hopefully taking leaks serious and not being so buddy buddy anymore with Russia.

We might still think Trump and his cronies are turds, but any move toward being more skeptical about Russia and its intents is a better one for the country.

[ISiddiqui]

Apparently Trump knew for a few weeks that Flynn had talked to the Russians:

Log In - New York Times

I guess his real crime was getting caught in the lie?

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Apparently Trump knew for a few weeks that Flynn had talked to the Russians:

Log In - New York Times

I guess his real crime was getting caught in the lie?

“The evolving and eroding level of trust as a result of this situation and a series of other questionable instances is what led the president to ask for General Flynn’s resignation,” Mr. Spicer said.

Mr. Spicer’s comments were the first public confirmation by the White House that Mr. Trump was aware of the allegations against Mr. Flynn before they were reported last week. They also contradicted the previous description of the national security adviser’s abrupt departure on Monday night, and they now attributed the decision to Mr. Trump rather than Mr. Flynn.

Leader must not be questioned. Man cannot resign to Leader, Leader says "You're Fired"

[CrescentMoonie]

There is simply no end to the lying.

White House Posts Wrong Versions of Trump orders

At least five posts on the White House page do not match the official text sent to the Federal Register, USA Today said Tuesday.

USA Today said two cases involved the original text referring to incorrect or non-existent provisions of law.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

There is simply no end to the lying.

White House Posts Wrong Versions of Trump orders

Seems more like incompetence than lying. Neither of which shocks me.

This administration will lie about many things. I don't think there is a need to attribute lying where mere incompetence is likely.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Seems more like incompetence than lying. Neither of which shocks me.

This administration will lie about many things. I don't think there is a need to attribute lying where mere incompetence is likely.

I'd attribute citing "non-existant provisions of law" as more than just incompetence. If you're making it up, it's lying.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

I'd attribute citing "non-existant provisions of law" as more than just incompetence. If you're making it up, it's lying.

I disagree. With this crew, I think it's entirely possible someone winged it and didn't properly check references before putting it out there. That's incompetence, not lying. And completely in keeping with how Trump's people seem to do things.

Then a career staffer who knows what he's doing got a hold of it and corrected it for the Federal Register.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Apparently Trump knew for a few weeks that Flynn had talked to the Russians:

Log In - New York Times

I guess his real crime was getting caught in the lie?

And as soon as he found out he waited three weeks and then fired him.

It was the quickest resolution in history. Period.

[larrymcg421]

Principled Rand Paul speaks:

"I just don't think it's useful to be doing investigation after investigation, particularly of your own party. We'll never even get started with doing the things we need to do, like repealing Obamacare, if we're spending our whole time having Republicans investigate Republicans. I think it makes no sense."

[Drake]

I'm pleased that Republicans are taking principled stands on things like frivolous investigations of political rivals and stonewalling SCOTUS nominees.

(Actually, it does impress me that both parties are able to pull off the "we obstruct because we're principled; they do it just because they're assholes" move with a straight face.)

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I disagree. With this crew, I think it's entirely possible someone winged it and didn't properly check references before putting it out there. That's incompetence, not lying. And completely in keeping with how Trump's people seem to do things.

Then a career staffer who knows what he's doing got a hold of it and corrected it for the Federal Register.

Completely agree and I do think the distinction matters.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Principled Rand Paul speaks:

"I just don't think it's useful to be doing investigation after investigation, particularly of your own party. We'll never even get started with doing the things we need to do, like repealing Obamacare, if we're spending our whole time having Republicans investigate Republicans. I think it makes no sense."

There are times that I really want to like Rand. For example he was the only Republican during the primaries that seems to realize that giving more money to the military will raise the deficit.

However this is not one of those times.

[Neon_Chaos]

Trump Advisor Stephen Miller: "The Powers of the President will not be questioned!" - YouTube

Those words are chilling.