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View Poll Results: How is Obama doing? (poll started 6/6) | |||
Great - above my expectations | 18 | 6.87% | |
Good - met most of my expectations | 66 | 25.19% | |
Average - so so, disappointed a little | 64 | 24.43% | |
Bad - sold us out | 101 | 38.55% | |
Trout - don't know yet | 13 | 4.96% | |
Voters: 262. You may not vote on this poll |
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08-01-2014, 12:57 PM | #23701 | |
Solecismic Software
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Canton, OH
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Quote:
That's how I try to approach issues, look at the issue itself rather than look at which party supports which position. This is a really difficult problem. And we are a nation that has reaped tremendous reward from mass immigration. We have a set of laws and a founding philosophy that all men are created equal. We are also an aging population. Not quite as bad as what China is facing these days from its forced reproduction policies, but we'd be close to ZPG without immigration. In theory, we should welcome these children and treat them as our own. However, I am also a conservative when it comes to the budget. I see tremendous problems down the road with continued deficit spending. And this is an expensive problem. I think the solution lies in requiring service in return for government aid. We need to find some way to make all Americans (and all immigrants) feel as if they are part of America. Service does this. But how do you do this without invoking the slavery argument? How do you encourage participation without making people feel that they can never get ahead? Plus, the worries about disease and security and violence are real. This may seem like a simple issue about borders and refugees, but it's really one of the more complex issues of our time and it goes to the heart of what it means to participate in a democracy. |
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08-01-2014, 01:10 PM | #23702 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Disease isn't much of a worry. Central American countries have very high vaccination rates.
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
08-01-2014, 01:15 PM | #23703 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Decatur, GA
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They may be more concerned of disease from us .
__________________
"A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams |
08-01-2014, 01:21 PM | #23704 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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I read somewhere that Honduras has a higher vaccination rate for measles than Texas.
Thanks Jenny McCarthy.
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
08-01-2014, 02:38 PM | #23705 | |
Solecismic Software
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Canton, OH
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Quote:
http://www.oig.dhs.gov/assets/Mgmt/2...n_Ali_Chil.pdf I think we need to be realistic about neither panicking about nor ignoring concerns. |
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08-01-2014, 02:41 PM | #23706 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicagoland
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08-01-2014, 02:46 PM | #23707 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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TB is a real concern, but chicken pox for children isn't that big of a deal. I have no doubt that health standards aren't great, but they aren't coming full of life threatening diseases.
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
08-01-2014, 02:50 PM | #23708 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chicagoland
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Quote:
Yes. Everything else is you (and Jon, for that matter), over-thinking my motivations here. Solving the immediate problem should be a relatively simple matter of applying more resources where necessary. Solving the long-term systemic problem is considerably more complex, but I wouldn't call that a crisis-level issue. Solving the immediate problem should be relatively straightforward, but it's not because the politicians are playing politics with it. Which leads me to believe that the politicians, taken as a whole, are more interested in gaining advantage from this situation than actually solving it. And the media & activists have jumped on the bandwagon. So, it's a "crisis", but not a crisis, if that makes sense. |
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08-01-2014, 02:56 PM | #23709 |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: SF
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08-01-2014, 03:02 PM | #23710 |
Pro Rookie
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Prairie du Sac, WI
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08-01-2014, 03:09 PM | #23711 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Decatur, GA
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And Jon is dedicated to make that happen!
__________________
"A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams |
08-01-2014, 03:31 PM | #23712 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Diego via Sausalito via San Jose via San Diego
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I think Jon would be right at home in a universe that is a hybrid of Daleks and the Necromongers.
__________________
I'm no longer a Chargers fan, they are dead to me Coming this summer to a movie theater near you: The Adventures of Jedikooter: Part 4 |
08-01-2014, 03:49 PM | #23713 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Dayton, OH
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The issue to me is manufactured. We have plenty of laws on the books to combat illegal immigration. However, they are not enforced.
The problem I have with the immigrants is who pays for it? Who raises them? Who makes sure they become productive members of society? If we let them in, does this mean we have to let the parents in as well? What do they bring to our society? |
08-01-2014, 06:18 PM | #23714 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Mays Landing, NJ USA
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Quote:
obama has us on that road... |
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08-02-2014, 04:40 AM | #23715 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
You really think this is a one-sided political issue? That Democrats wouldn't love to pass a bill with amnesty provisions for people that conveniently vote heavily in their favor? |
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08-02-2014, 04:47 AM | #23716 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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The disease stories are also just useless fodder in the debate to scare people. The real issue comes down to whether or not we want to spend immense amount of resources (money!) to care for people coming from 3rd world countries who offer nothing in return.
And that's a harsh way of putting it, but that's what this boils down to. Do you want a lot of your tax dollars being spent to support anyone from a 3rd world country who wants to setup shop here? Do you want a larger portion of your country turning into the type of communities these immigrants have created over the last few decades? |
08-02-2014, 07:07 AM | #23717 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Quote:
Fuck Little Italy.
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
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08-02-2014, 07:20 AM | #23718 |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Little Italy is great. We couldn't possibly support all of Italy though. (...and nobody is making an argument against legal immigration)
Last edited by Dutch : 08-02-2014 at 07:25 AM. |
08-02-2014, 07:38 AM | #23719 |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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08-02-2014, 09:20 AM | #23720 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Quote:
I might quibble with "immense" and "nothing vs little" but its a key question to be answered. The other question we all have to ask ourselves as a check -- if these kids were white, fleeing Europe because of a famine, war or other like causes. Would we reject them? Deep down, I think the answer is no, there would be more sympathy and they would be accepted. My stance is immigration is definitely needed. We do want to be selective and encourage the highly educated, the rich etc. to come over. We don't want 3rd world orphaned kids coming over but there should be some compassion to resolve and mitigate the issue at the source. |
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08-02-2014, 10:25 AM | #23721 | ||
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Quote:
Ahhhh, racism, grinds most discussions to a halt...redirects...and arguing over stupid shit like skin color ensues. Thanks, but no thanks. I'm really not interested in hearing your put words into our politicians mouths that suggest they would say, "I can't act on illegal immigration so long as I *suspect* illegal immigration from Europe would be accepted by myself." No. Stop muddying the waters with the easy, simplistic, overused and overblown, race card. It's 2014. We all get that it exists, but unless there is something specific that leads you to believe our fairly diverse government is up to something, just stop. If we were so racist against "the brown people" the "brown people" wouldn't be trying to flood into our country. It's a non-issue to them because it's a non-issue. However, what is back on point is that this is about American citizens that have a right to our tax dollars (black, brown, white, etc.) and non-US citizens that do not (black, brown, white, etc.). Quote:
It's called LEGAL IMMIGRATION. It exists, it's regulated, and it works for us perfectly. Learn about it, embrace it, fight for it, and if necessary, reform it, but please stop supporting the circumvention of it. Last edited by Dutch : 08-02-2014 at 10:27 AM. |
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08-02-2014, 10:33 AM | #23722 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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Quote:
Are they entering legally? Or are they behaving like cockroaches?
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
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08-02-2014, 10:43 AM | #23723 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Quote:
Our diverse government is not up to something as a collective whole. But there are segments with differing thoughts on this that we can and should question (democrat and republican). Let's use Rick Perry as an example. Would he be reacting this way if it was white kids coming across the border? Last edited by Edward64 : 08-02-2014 at 10:43 AM. |
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08-02-2014, 10:47 AM | #23724 |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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08-02-2014, 10:53 AM | #23725 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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Then fuck 'em. I'd happily man the same .50 caliber solution if various Scandanavians were invading via the Canadian border. Quote:
True. Cockroaches are less of a drain on society & the economy.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
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08-02-2014, 11:45 AM | #23726 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Decatur, GA
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Quote:
You realize ASYLUM for refugees exists as well, right? Where I live in Georgia there is a decent amount of refugees from Central Africa (half the town of Clarkston is made up of refugees, and that isn't hyperbole), people who were fleeing violence and torture in their homelands and the United States offered them asylum. It is not that much different than these children fleeing violence in Central America.
__________________
"A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams Last edited by ISiddiqui : 08-02-2014 at 11:48 AM. |
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08-02-2014, 11:48 AM | #23727 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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Quote:
Except, you know, the whole invading across the border en masse thing.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
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08-02-2014, 11:49 AM | #23728 | |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Quote:
Who cares. Do you want to solve this issue or not? That's all I care about. I do. I care about it now, I cared about it under President Bush, under President Clinton, and Under President Bush Sr. But you are right to some degree, the whole lot of them ask the same stupid questions like, "How would {Rick Perry} react if it were white people coming in from Siberia?" And my response is the same to all of them, "It doesn't matter because that's a stupid fucking question. Now which one of you pussies is going to do something about it? ". |
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08-02-2014, 11:49 AM | #23729 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Decatur, GA
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Drug cartels engaging in warfare against each other within countries has the same effect on people living there. They flee the warfare.
And, of course, we do have refugees who were persecuted for speaking out against their governments, and not due to any invasions by anyone.
__________________
"A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams Last edited by ISiddiqui : 08-02-2014 at 11:50 AM. |
08-02-2014, 11:55 AM | #23730 | |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Quote:
Not totally brushed up on Asylum in America. However, there are basic similarities to LEGAL IMMIGRATION that ASYLUM refugees have in common. Such as, their legal status to be in America. Back to you, you realize ASYLUM for refugees and ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION are legally different, right? |
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08-02-2014, 11:56 AM | #23731 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Quote:
Agreed, there's only such much that can be discussed if someone is just asking questions. Refresh my memory? What would you do about it? |
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08-02-2014, 11:57 AM | #23732 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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Quote:
But that's not really the topic here, is it? All I'm seeing is another excuse to try to justify the illegal assault on the U.S. by a wave of invaders. I don't really give a flying fuck whether they're 3 or 33 or 63, there's zero excuse for allowing it, zero excuse for sticking the taxpayers with the dead weight, and zero excuse for not having the courage to defends our fucking borders. And those who excuse this bullshit are just as big a threat to our sovereignty, our existence, and a way of life worth having as the criminals they support.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
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08-02-2014, 11:58 AM | #23733 |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: SF
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08-02-2014, 12:03 PM | #23734 | |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Quote:
Hell, I'm no expert, but the top level overview would be something like this: Employ people and purchase materials to guard the entire southern border. I would do so until the projections of illegal aliens drops to a trickle. If the total # of ASYLUM entrants is around 100,000 per year (guessing) and the total number of LEGAL IMMIGRANTS is around 1,000,000 (guessing) per year, then until we get to around 50,000 or less ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS per year, we keep spending until the job is done. Fair? I think it's fair to ask for your solution now. Last edited by Dutch : 08-02-2014 at 12:04 PM. |
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08-02-2014, 12:09 PM | #23735 | ||
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Quote:
Posted back in 7/25. Quote:
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08-02-2014, 12:15 PM | #23736 | |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Oh yeah, I saw that and liked that response (didn't remember it was you though). You may have seen this one from me earlier as well.
Quote:
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08-02-2014, 12:19 PM | #23737 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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Quote:
They're already employed, and trained. We can start with the 500 or so majors that are about to be RIF'ed. Materials? Unless there's a shortage of 5.56x45 or 7.62x51, we've got most of what we need already.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
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08-02-2014, 12:48 PM | #23738 |
Solecismic Software
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Canton, OH
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08-02-2014, 03:20 PM | #23739 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Seven miles up
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Quote:
Are you actually suggesting killing everyone who crosses the border illegally?
__________________
He's just like if Snow White was competitive, horny, and capable of beating the shit out of anyone that called her Pops. Like Steam? Join the FOFC Steam group here: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/FOFConSteam |
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08-02-2014, 03:23 PM | #23740 | |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Quote:
I don't want a shooting gallery, although I have thought that very clear boundaries with a tougher level of difficulty to cross would make the attempt more obviously criminal and impossible for kids without adult supervision. |
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08-02-2014, 04:08 PM | #23741 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Massachusetts
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08-02-2014, 04:27 PM | #23742 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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Quote:
Only those who get through the minefields & aren't taking out by the drones patrolling overhead. Those already in the country illegally should get 30 days notice to be gone before hunting licenses are issued. Every legal resident ought to be paid a bounty for every one of the bastards they bag, tag & bring in.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
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08-02-2014, 04:46 PM | #23743 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2013
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You're adorable
__________________
"I am God's prophet, and I need an attorney" |
08-02-2014, 06:13 PM | #23744 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Quote:
Said Jesus.
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
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08-02-2014, 06:16 PM | #23745 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Quote:
My point is that today's immigrant communities are assimilating at roughly the same rate as past immigrant communities. The first generation is largely unassimilated, the second is half/half and by the third generation they are basically completely assimilated. For the bulk of immigrants that's how it has always worked.
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
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08-02-2014, 08:35 PM | #23746 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Seven miles up
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Quote:
You sir, are a fucking asshole.
__________________
He's just like if Snow White was competitive, horny, and capable of beating the shit out of anyone that called her Pops. Like Steam? Join the FOFC Steam group here: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/FOFConSteam |
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08-02-2014, 09:00 PM | #23747 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Diego via Sausalito via San Jose via San Diego
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__________________
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08-02-2014, 09:44 PM | #23748 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
Is it because of their skin color though? Or the culture? I think if there was a famine or war and many Koreans came over to this country, there wouldn't be a ton of backlash. I'd argue that the culture plays a much larger role in whether we are accepting of immigrants or not. Unfortunately, hispanics in this country commit crimes at a higher rate, have lower levels of education, and reproduce at a higher frequency. I think there is a big difference in not wanting a race to enter the country as opposed to not wanting a culture. |
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08-02-2014, 10:43 PM | #23749 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
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{shrug} Better an asshole with a country than one that surrenders without putting up a fight. You honestly haven't the foggiest how readily I'd depopulate the planet to a fraction of its current occupancy, that I'd bat nary an eyelash to defend my home against invasion (as well as an occupying force) should be absolutely no surprise whatsoever. It that bothers you somehow, well, I'll make a note to add that info its proper slot on the grand list of stuff in my life. Fair warning though, might be a while before I get around to addressing it. Priorities, you understand.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
08-02-2014, 11:27 PM | #23750 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Massachusetts
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Quote:
The world must be such a scary scary place to you in order to engender this level of fear, defensiveness, hostility, and anger. I'm sorry - I actually pity you (although I'm sure you don't care and will view that as a sign of my weakness, etc.). I wish it wasn't that way for you. |
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