LXXVII Spawn III: Game Over (See Post 4507)

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Chubby

It is impossible for MV to be the empath.

So you were incorruptable and an empath and spawn attacked last night?

[Chubby]

MV covered for Alan T earlier in my catchup so Alan so you're going to forgive me if I don't believe you 100%.

MV being spawn and vouching for you makes you suspicious as well.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Then I'll stop using smiling faces when saying how wrong I believe you to be. I don't intend to mock (not sure how the last statement was mocking at all).. I just think everyone is being so rash to try to get a pulse on who the spawn are when that can change very fast while on the planet in the first place.

1) Traditional voting records mean NOTHING here since the high rate of conversions wreck them.
2) We still have the traditional low probability of hitting a spawn with a vote unless really lucky so most likely would kill off villagers that we need to perform functions..

Once we get into space, this becomes a much more traditional type of WW game including the need for lynches and voting records. Tyrith, I'm trying to not be mean or insulting or anything with this post as I respect people can have a different viewpoint.. but I feel our #1 priority right now is to get off of this planet in tact.

Bottom line is this:

If Hoops was a spawn or if Telle was a spawn, they still helped us get the crystals we needed today... They still were used to help us come closer to our goal.. We need ALL of the people we have to get off this planet.. Once off of the planet, string em up, burn em at the stake.. I don't care

I think you're drawing a false dichotamy between today and tomorrow. The plan is not to be stuck on this planet by this time tomorrow, correct? Then what is fundamentally different about our situation now? We have one more round of potential night conversions, and we have to send one or two people outside tomorrow -- it's a possible conversion but not ultra likely.

And we clearly don't need all 23 people to do the things we need to get off the ground at this point -- between the engineers and a couple of people to go outside we've got all our essential stuff covered. We've got stuff like scientists, a trainer, two ensigns soon, all these parts that don't really change our situation today or tomorrow that much. The world isn't going to change completely at lift off, and by waiting extra days to start doing stuff then we could be in trouble.

If we had gone with no lynch from the get go we wouldn't even be having these conversations right now. Lynch or no, this information is helpful for days after today, when you would have started lynching people. The information is ultimately the motivation for the lynch -- although killing wolves is nice, too -- and can't get that if we aren't willing to go through. I'll trade a dead ensign or a dead engineer for what the process of getting to the corpse tells us.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Ok here is the deal.....

I really would like to use Hoops tommorrow to interrogate people if we can get off of this planet.. so please don't vote for him..

I really would like to use Telle to do one more crystal run first thing in the morning so don't vote for her...

I really would like to have Marc scanned/and have marc scan path as the new doctor so please don't vote for him...

I'm going to piss people off further, but as long as our security guards make absolutely sure to guard : Cargo Hold, Engines and Security HQ I don't see any reason we can't lift off tommorrow...

So I'm just asking for one more day of no lynch to get off this planet.

If marc is a spawn, I don't think we want him scanned at this point.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Chubby

I want a consensus on what I should empath since, surprise, I'm the empath. Thus as soon as I saw MV claim empath I knew he was full of shit. Seeing as I can't be turned I would like some protection tonight however.

Chubby, you are claiming to have two secret roles? I guess I don't see anything in the rules that says that is impossible, just seems odd

[path12]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Whoah, hold on a sec. Let's give this some thought first (and make sure we empath the best possible statement if that's what we're gonna do).

Then I should clarify my comment if that's the one you choose. The result of my scan of hoops said that he was human.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

So you were incorruptable and an empath and spawn attacked last night?

I was spawn attacked during my away mission yesterday. Found out incorruptible.

I was slave attcked the night before. Found out empath.

I couldn't post last night as I got home too late and couldn't come out as I feared being killed with not enough people online. I was also hoping someone would fake reveal my role so I could nail which I lucked out on.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Heinz, I'll accept your apology whenever you are prepared to give it.

Not comin'.

Or at least not until you & company do for starting in on me to begin with (once you find out I'm not Spawn, of course)

It's WW, we're all wrong sometimes.

[KWhit]

And I think it's time to start lynching people. We don't need to wait another night, IMO.

[Tyrith]

If you're going to empath something empath something about your current lynch target. Having two in this game would NOT strike me as ultra strange. However, I'm pretty silly for missing something that obvious -- but to be honest, dropping not subtle hints strikes me as silly when you can just be clear.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Whoah, hold on a sec. Let's give this some thought first (and make sure we empath the best possible statement if that's what we're gonna do).

I'm going to be online for a while so yes, I want the best possible statement to empath.

I don't fully trust Alan as MV vouched for him when he "came out" as emapth.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Chubby

MV covered for Alan T earlier in my catchup so Alan so you're going to forgive me if I don't believe you 100%.

MV being spawn and vouching for you makes you suspicious as well.

Chubby, if you believe I'm good as the doctor then you need to know that KWhit, Alan and now hoops have all scanned as human by me. If you don't believe I'm good as the doctor then you need to empath one of my statements.

[jeheinz72]

How about just empathing the statement where Marc said he was the empath?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Chubby

MV covered for Alan T earlier in my catchup so Alan so you're going to forgive me if I don't believe you 100%.

MV being spawn and vouching for you makes you suspicious as well.

Great.. so I've been scanned by our doctor Path, locked in the brig the entire time since, Marc double vouched for me (obviously that could have been faked).. and apparently a part of an absolute trust group with another officer whom I think I know who it is based on hints in the thread...

That isn't enough to clear me? Are you sure you want to accuse the person who has been triple cleared that has the ability to duke you of this?

[jeheinz72]

I think it's a matter of if we want to lay up (empath something related to MV) or go for the green (empath something path said)

[LoneStarGirl]

Originally Posted by mccollins

I've been nice and encouraging that you're important all day. If you're just trying to play it in character or something then say so.

Werewolf is not about being nice and encouraging, I don't need it from you. I know i am importantl not as important as others, but who cares, the game is fun one way or another... there are parts of the game you dont know, so dont assume that you do.. Maybe my role is one of a needy scientist. I would rather you just skip over my posts if you are going to respond to them in the way you have previously.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

How about just empathing the statement where Marc said he was the empath?

Strikes me as pretty much the most direct way to get what we want and need.

[Chubby]

I am pretty sure that MV is the unaware spawn as he has been begging to be scanned since day one. He is most def NOT the empath as claimed.

Scan me but I don't want to be in the brig with Alan so he can off me (if it's possible to kill in the brig).

[claphamsa]

do we know there is only one empath?

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Not comin'.

Or at least not until you & company do for starting in on me to begin with (once you find out I'm not Spawn, of course)

It's WW, we're all wrong sometimes.

I was kidding, I know it is WW and games play out this way sometimes. I'm still pretty intrigued by the you/Danny dynamic, but I don't think today is the day to revisit this.

1.) Get Telle
2.) Figure out Marc/Chubby

That is enough to do between now and liftoff.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Having two in this game would NOT strike me as ultra strange.

Especially when you consider some of us were willing to consider multiple people as Spawn Aware yesterday.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by path12

Chubby, if you believe I'm good as the doctor then you need to know that KWhit, Alan and now hoops have all scanned as human by me. If you don't believe I'm good as the doctor then you need to empath one of my statements.

I know that. I merely stating the MV vouching for him rasies suspicion in my mind since I know MV to be spawn. Unless he's trying to gain good points for vouching for something already known to be good.

[LoneStarGirl]

Question, Alant you said that spawns can change one way or another while we are on the planet... does that mean you can be a spawn then come human?

And dont we think that the people who have been cleared will be perfect candidates for conversion?

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Strikes me as pretty much the most direct way to get what we want and need.

Do waste a empath when I know it to be false. I don't think for a second there's two empaths.

[jeheinz72]

I'd say 2 and then 1.

Not to say I don't believe you, but I think MV having lied about being an empath is more of a clear-cut lynch subject than you seeing Telle do something that could be GM-wording related (maybe).

[Tyrith]

Gaaah, now I don't feel like I can trust you, either, Chubby, because that distrust of Alan seems very, very strange and weak.

[Chubby]

Barkeep - Is what I empath and the results made public? (as I hope it is)

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Chubby

Do waste a empath when I know it to be false. I don't think for a second there's two empaths.

Well, maybe some of the rest of us don't agree, and if he's actually a wolf it will be well worth our time to make sure of it.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

Question, Alant you said that spawns can change one way or another while we are on the planet... does that mean you can be a spawn then come human?

And dont we think that the people who have been cleared will be perfect candidates for conversion?

I don't know of any game mechanism that allows spawns to later become human. Closest thing in the rules is the role where they show up and appear to everything as spawn at night, but during the day show up completely human to seer scans, empath statements, etc. But they are on the spawn team the entire time

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Chubby

Do waste a empath when I know it to be false. I don't think for a second there's two empaths.

I don't think we can rule that out. Plus there is a gain to the Spawn in trying to get MV lynched today if he's good.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Gaaah, now I don't feel like I can trust you, either, Chubby, because that distrust of Alan seems very, very strange and weak.

Guilt by association. If a spawn vouched for you it'd raise doubts about you as well.

[KWhit]

There are 2 scenarios that make sense to me.

1) Chubby's telling the truth.

2) Chubby is lying about being an empath. MV is really the empath, but Chubby has to do something drastic. Connecting the dots, the only reason that makes sense for Chubby to fake this has to do with MV becoming a doctor. The implication there is that the spawn don't want MV to become a doctor. The only way I can see the spawn making such an outrageous play is their afraid MV will scan Path and Path is a spawn.


Crazy scenario there, but it's the only one that really makes sense to me right now if Chubby's lying.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Well, maybe some of the rest of us don't agree, and if he's actually a wolf it will be well worth our time to make sure of it.

No idea if the empath works differently in this game, but in most games the empath gets the PM. I assume it will work the same here, where we won't see any result from either Marc or Chubby's empath scans (We didn't see the one that Marc claimed to have done on me before for instance).. so Chubby telling the truth or lying we would have to believe him as we won't see it.

[path12]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

And dont we think that the people who have been cleared will be perfect candidates for conversion?

That's why we're all spending nights in the brig. Now that I've cleared three, I'm hunting spawn with my scans going forward.

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by KWhit

There are 2 scenarios that make sense to me.

1) Chubby's telling the truth.

2) Chubby is lying about being an empath. MV is really the empath, but Chubby has to do something drastic. Connecting the dots, the only reason that makes sense for Chubby to fake this has to do with MV becoming a doctor. The implication there is that the spawn don't want MV to become a doctor. The only way I can see the spawn making such an outrageous play is their afraid MV will scan Path and Path is a spawn.


Crazy scenario there, but it's the only one that really makes sense to me right now if Chubby's lying.

pretty mcuh yeah... if hes lying its a terrible move.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Chubby

Guilt by association. If a spawn vouched for you it'd raise doubts about you as well.

But keep in mind Chubby, the Spawn know who is who. It's a pretty common wolf-tactic to say good things about known good people, in an effort to curry favor.

I think we all see your point, but a Spawn doing that (clearing a known cleared, or even a villager in general) is far from an extraordinary

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

I don't think we can rule that out. Plus there is a gain to the Spawn in trying to get MV lynched today if he's good.

That is what I am thinking... Marc is about to become not only empath but also a doctor.. Marc has already shown that he didn't know the editing rule so I'm not sure that he has a full grasp of this complex rule set so any misinformation he has said in thread could possibly be accidental.

Its a tough call here as getting marc killed would kill off an empath and a doctor if Chubby is lying.. or if Chubby is telling the truth, he is basing alot of it on what seems to be hunches which in some cases (such as his accusing of me) seem to be very bad hunches.

[path12]

Originally Posted by KWhit

There are 2 scenarios that make sense to me.

1) Chubby's telling the truth.

2) Chubby is lying about being an empath. MV is really the empath, but Chubby has to do something drastic. Connecting the dots, the only reason that makes sense for Chubby to fake this has to do with MV becoming a doctor. The implication there is that the spawn don't want MV to become a doctor. The only way I can see the spawn making such an outrageous play is their afraid MV will scan Path and Path is a spawn.


Crazy scenario there, but it's the only one that really makes sense to me right now if Chubby's lying.

I really need to get back to work, but there's also 3) Chubby is mistaken and there are two empaths. I don't like the fact that MV was wrong about the amount of times he could check a statement though.

[Chubby]

Force MV to scan me.

If he's spawn and I'm not nothing happens, correct?
If path scans him then they both die.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Alan T

No idea if the empath works differently in this game, but in most games the empath gets the PM. I assume it will work the same here, where we won't see any result from either Marc or Chubby's empath scans (We didn't see the one that Marc claimed to have done on me before for instance).. so Chubby telling the truth or lying we would have to believe him as we won't see it.

If that's the case, then I see no point to Chubby empathing Marc's claim to be the empath. Him coming back and saying that the PM said Marc lied really isn't going to make more people believe him or not.

Chubby, empath something else.

[Chubby]

path - Then MV and I both empath a different statement.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Chubby

Barkeep - Is what I empath and the results made public? (as I hope it is)

Empath statements are not made public.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Alan T

No idea if the empath works differently in this game, but in most games the empath gets the PM. I assume it will work the same here, where we won't see any result from either Marc or Chubby's empath scans (We didn't see the one that Marc claimed to have done on me before for instance).. so Chubby telling the truth or lying we would have to believe him as we won't see it.

Which, ultimately, makes me want to stay out of the entire mess. I think this is an argument being construed as certain that is far from it, and I want to resolve one mess at a time. If hoops is good, then let's just follow the lead we've got and kill Telle. If hoops is unaware spawn...we're pretty hosed, but that's going to be the case regardless.

Part of it for me is that the MV play seems so ultra silly to make as a wolf -- claiming to be an empath when it's almost certain there's one out there when it really doesn't garner any strategic advantage? It's ultra silly and doesn't make any sense. Whereas there are a variety of plays I could see Chubby making as a wolf in order to get us to lynch MV and stall for a lot of time wandering down the road of figuring out who he was protecting -- if anyone.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by KWhit

There are 2 scenarios that make sense to me.

1) Chubby's telling the truth.

2) Chubby is lying about being an empath. MV is really the empath, but Chubby has to do something drastic. Connecting the dots, the only reason that makes sense for Chubby to fake this has to do with MV becoming a doctor. The implication there is that the spawn don't want MV to become a doctor. The only way I can see the spawn making such an outrageous play is their afraid MV will scan Path and Path is a spawn.


Crazy scenario there, but it's the only one that really makes sense to me right now if Chubby's lying.

Your #2 is my worst nightmare by the way. I mentioned on day 1 a few times that I had two suspects that just felt off to me.. but didn't want to mention them.. I later finally said Hoops was one.. well the other one was Path... That is why at the time I said I didn't want to run with my gut feelings this game as if they were wrong I would kill off our Security officer and doctor on an incorrect gut feeling and likely lose the game for us.

That is why I have been insistant on getting a new doctor and getting Path scanned.. and unfortunatly haven't been too lucky...

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Chubby

Force MV to scan me.

If he's spawn and I'm not nothing happens, correct?
If path scans him then they both die.

No, if you're spawn and he's not you both die; it tells us nothing about him. Although I don't trust MV to be in a room with anyone valuable right now, either.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Your #2 is my worst nightmare by the way. I mentioned on day 1 a few times that I had two suspects that just felt off to me.. but didn't want to mention them.. I later finally said Hoops was one.. well the other one was Path... That is why at the time I said I didn't want to run with my gut feelings this game as if they were wrong I would kill off our Security officer and doctor on an incorrect gut feeling and likely lose the game for us.

That is why I have been insistant on getting a new doctor and getting Path scanned.. and unfortunatly haven't been too lucky...

Find me a post of path's to empath

[path12]

Originally Posted by Chubby

path - Then MV and I both empath a different statement.

That'd be cool if the results were in thread. Since that's not the case it's more problematic.......I'm willing to scan one of you tomorrow since I actually believe that Telle is the best vote for today.

No way MV should be in the brig though until this is straightened out.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Which, ultimately, makes me want to stay out of the entire mess. I think this is an argument being construed as certain that is far from it, and I want to resolve one mess at a time. If hoops is good, then let's just follow the lead we've got and kill Telle. If hoops is unaware spawn...we're pretty hosed, but that's going to be the case regardless.

Part of it for me is that the MV play seems so ultra silly to make as a wolf -- claiming to be an empath when it's almost certain there's one out there when it really doesn't garner any strategic advantage? It's ultra silly and doesn't make any sense. Whereas there are a variety of plays I could see Chubby making as a wolf in order to get us to lynch MV and stall for a lot of time wandering down the road of figuring out who he was protecting -- if anyone.

The only thing is I don't necessarily see that Hoops being good = Telle is bad.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Your #2 is my worst nightmare by the way. I mentioned on day 1 a few times that I had two suspects that just felt off to me.. but didn't want to mention them.. I later finally said Hoops was one.. well the other one was Path... That is why at the time I said I didn't want to run with my gut feelings this game as if they were wrong I would kill off our Security officer and doctor on an incorrect gut feeling and likely lose the game for us.

That is why I have been insistant on getting a new doctor and getting Path scanned.. and unfortunatly haven't been too lucky...

And that #2 means we're ultimately screwed, as it wouldn't surprise me if we're barking up a path and hoops are bad together tree and we're going to spend the next two days lynching sheep and digging a hole through the hull. I think we pretty much have to assume that path is good for now, or we're in deep crap. Our best case scenario for getting out of that is having MV scan him and that seems highly likely to get them both killed, one way or another. Although that's not terrible in the case of MV killing path.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Chubby

Find me a post of path's to empath

Originally Posted by path12

Chubby, if you believe I'm good as the doctor then you need to know that KWhit, Alan and now hoops have all scanned as human by me. If you don't believe I'm good as the doctor then you need to empath one of my statements.

My suggestion. Not sure if that works or not though.