Big 10 Expansion Thread -Big Ten ready for a playoff .. finally?

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Curious, since I'm not aware of any source who has said Texas wants another "heavyweight" for them to stay, I'm assuming it's your assumption. Why would Texas want another power team? Why would they want MORE competition? Why would they want to split their pie with 11 teams instead of 12?

As for heavyweight, Missouri has won the same number of games as Nebraska since 2002.

Honestly don't remember where this train of thought came from, but it wasn't my assumption. I'll concede since I don't have time to go backtracking on the hundred thousand things I've read today to find the source. Pretty sure it was accurate, though.

I do know the logic is that a conference with just them as a powerhouse is much weaker than the other big conferences with several powerhouses.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Curious, since I'm not aware of any source who has said Texas wants another "heavyweight" for them to stay, I'm assuming it's your assumption. Why would Texas want another power team? Why would they want MORE competition? Why would they want to split their pie with 11 teams instead of 12?

As for heavyweight, Missouri has won the same number of games as Nebraska since 2002.

I would think that a team might want another powerhouse to raise the conference's SOS to better enable a path to the National Championship Game each year. I know that is why some Pac-10 fans want Texas, Oklahoma, etc. Whoever wins the Pac-16 (if it happens) is going to almost be guaranteed a National Championship berth most years.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Arles

Moving the Pac-10 to 12 teams with Utah isn't the worst thing in the world.

I'd be seriously bummed if the Pac-10 only expanded to 12, as it would make for difficult scheduling decisions that would inevitably leave a lot of teams unhappy. If the choice were to stick with 10 or expand to 12, I'd prefer sticking with 10. But too late now...unless we boot WSU.

j/k, that's not going to happen...

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I would think that a team might want another powerhouse to raise the conference's SOS to better enable a path to the National Championship Game each year. I know that is why some Pac-10 fans want Texas, Oklahoma, etc. Whoever wins the Pac-16 (if it happens) is going to almost be guaranteed a National Championship berth most years.

I don't know. Texas didn't have another powerhouse in conference last year and scheduled rather embarassing out-of-conference opponents and still got in.

Since the BCS is more about perception and not results, I think they would be fine winning any major conference since their name is Texas. In fact, I'd want a conference that didn't have another powerhouse that had to be beaten to get in.

[sooner333]

Looks like KU is getting a personal visit from Larry Scott.

FlightAware > N228PK

(Of course, as my friend pointed out: It's also been to Salt Lake City in the past two days)

[the_meanstrosity]

I honestly don't know how valid this info is, but supposedly Larry Scott's plane is leaving Austin and headed for Kansas City later tonight. It should also be known that Scott's plane has recently been in Salt Lake City (this past Friday). So who knows what's going on. But it's looking like Texas A&M is heading to the SEC.

Doh, you beat me to it Sooner.

[timmynausea]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't know. Texas didn't have another powerhouse in conference last year and scheduled rather embarassing out-of-conference opponents and still got in.

Since the BCS is more about perception and not results, I think they would be fine winning any major conference since their name is Texas. In fact, I'd want a conference that didn't have another powerhouse that had to be beaten to get in.

I actually agree with the premise of "easier to get to the BCS title game" being potentially more desirable to a coach or fan. However, consolidation = power and money. That's why all the conferences are expanding. Ensuring that your conference will have huge TV deals (and the steady revenue check that comes with it) is worth much more to an AD than easiest path to the BCS, otherwise everybody would be trying to mimic the old ACC setup of FSU and the seven dwarves (or Miami's similar setup in the old Big East) rather than abandoning those.

The Big 12 needed the serious threat of disbandment to squeeze $17 mill per team out of Fox. To me, that means the Pac 16, expanded SEC and expanded Big Ten will/would be able to squeeze that much more out of their TV deals, and with the concentration of name brand teams in fewer hands, it gives those conferences even more leverage.

[timmynausea]

The Texas A&M rivals page is now saying "barring the unforseen or political activity" the Aggies will join the SEC.

The Big Score: A&M goes it alone

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

"barring . . . political activity"

Heh. Not that I blame them, but that's more than a little bit of CYA there.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

I was really hoping Kansas and Missouri came to the Mountain West which would make a nice 12 team conference now that Boise State is in the fold.

Can we bring our little brother (K-State) and our wacky neighbor (Iowa State)? I'd feel bad about leaving them out in the cold. I think Baylor's out of our hands, tho, with the TCU-Baylor dynamic. But if I really want to look at best case, I'd love to pick up all 5 Big XII orphans and take Memphis up on their offer. They're about 400 miles due south of Columbia, would add some nice cash with that bowl offer, and bring some basketball clout with them.

EDIT: And while I'm dreaming, I want a pony!

SI

[dawgfan]

I'm assuming you'd be OK leaving the little brother and wacky neighbor behind to join the Pac-16?

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by sooner333

Looks like KU is getting a personal visit from Larry Scott.

FlightAware > N228PK

(Of course, as my friend pointed out: It's also been to Salt Lake City in the past two days)

KCI is also the airport for K-State and Mizzou.

It's also been to Lubbock (Texas Tech), Waco (Baylor), and Oklahoma City (Oklahoma State/Oklahoma).

And if your REALLY paranoid, it also touched down in Huntsville (Sam Houston St), and was originally scheduled to go to San Marcos (Texas State), but decided to go to Austin instead.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

KCI is also the airport for K-State and Mizzou.

It's also been to Lubbock (Texas Tech), Waco (Baylor), and Oklahoma City (Oklahoma State/Oklahoma).

And if your REALLY paranoid, it also touched down in Huntsville (Sam Houston St), and was originally scheduled to go to San Marcos (Texas State), but decided to go to Austin instead.

Texas is going to show just how much clout they have, and bring along Sam Houston State to the PAC-10+ if A&M goes to the SEC.

[Eaglesfan27]

So if Texas and A&M really go to separate leagues, does the rivalry die?

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

So if Texas and A&M really go to separate leagues, does the rivalry die?

I wouldn't think so. There is a big chunk of the A&M traditions that are put downs of some sort towards Texas. It is a huge part of their culture. Texas and Oklahoma are huge rivals, and they weren't in the same conference for the first 70 or so years of their rivalry.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I'm assuming you'd be OK leaving the little brother and wacky neighbor behind to join the Pac-16?

I'd really want to do everything I could to help them find a home, first, if possible. Again, this is like what kcchief19 said the other day- being on the wrong side of this thing just feels awful and is a death knell of sorts, or at least a big step down, to the schools involved. I'd rather sacrifice a little of my cache to help them out a lot if it comes down to that. I'm sure that's not how Lew will see things.

SI

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

So if Texas and A&M really go to separate leagues, does the rivalry die?

Originally Posted by cartman

I wouldn't think so. There is a big chunk of the A&M traditions that are put downs of some sort towards Texas. It is a huge part of their culture. Texas and Oklahoma are huge rivals, and they weren't in the same conference for the first 70 or so years of their rivalry.

I just had an thought. Now that Nebraska and Oklahoma are not in the same conference any more, do you think they might try to restart their annual game since they're no longer subject to the conference schedule? What made me think of it was visiting Nebraska and Colorado blog sites and noting the Buffs fans in particular were sad to see the Nebraska-Colorado series possibly coming to an end, which puzzled me since there's nothing stopping them from scheduling it as a non-conference game. Only now did I think about the possibility of Nebraska-Oklahoma being revived as an annual series, though. Would either school go for it?

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Pac-10 going to offer again after just getting turned down?

Sources also said that Missouri was a done deal and that the PAC-10 was dumb for going after Texas after they turned down the Big-10 (the first time)

[kcchief19]

Interesting ... Missouri curators are meeting, mostly by teleconference. Among those not in the room -- Missouri AD Mike Alden, who is on the conference call. Wonder where Mr. Alden is? KC? Salt Lake City? Austin?

[MrBug708]

Rumors on the Utah board is that Utah has an offer to the PAC-10

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

I just had an thought. Now that Nebraska and Oklahoma are not in the same conference any more, do you think they might try to restart their annual game since they're no longer subject to the conference schedule? What made me think of it was visiting Nebraska and Colorado blog sites and noting the Buffs fans in particular were sad to see the Nebraska-Colorado series possibly coming to an end, which puzzled me since there's nothing stopping them from scheduling it as a non-conference game. Only now did I think about the possibility of Nebraska-Oklahoma being revived as an annual series, though. Would either school go for it?

My guess is that for the next few years the only team that will have a good relationship with Nebraska is Colorado. I think the rest of the conference wants Nebraska to drop dead.

[MrBug708]

I dunno...there might some other teams that dont mind, especially if the money is there

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

My guess is that for the next few years the only team that will have a good relationship with Nebraska is Colorado. I think the rest of the conference wants Nebraska to drop dead.

I doubt Texas cares. Texas is probably happy both schools left since it has let them do whatever it is they want to do.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

I doubt Texas cares. Texas is probably happy both schools left since it has let them do whatever it is they want to do.

But the status quo was what Texas wanted, hence the ultimatum given to Nebraska to crap or get off the pot. Texas was "on the plane" with the Big 12. The didn't want this but will do whatever is in their best interest.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

But the status quo was what Texas wanted, hence the ultimatum given to Nebraska to crap or get off the pot. Texas was "on the plane" with the Big 12. The didn't want this but will do whatever is in their best interest.

Yes but regardless now of whatever outcome, Nebraska and Colorado leaving has guaranteed Texas more money.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Sources also said that Missouri was a done deal and that the PAC-10 was dumb for going after Texas after they turned down the Big-10 (the first time)

Sources like chip brown also said Texas and A&M to the Pac 10 was a done deal

[Chief Rum]

I'm not sure what's funnier to me...all the crazy conference switching happening in college football...or all the juvenile, dick-measuring, "my source is better than your source" posting here in this thread.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Hey, I'm just trying to post information. No problem, though, you guys can just find the shit without my input.

My comment wasn't aimed at (just) you.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Sources like chip brown also said Texas and A&M to the Pac 10 was a done deal

I don't think he said that.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Interesting ... Missouri curators are meeting, mostly by teleconference. Among those not in the room -- Missouri AD Mike Alden, who is on the conference call. Wonder where Mr. Alden is? KC? Salt Lake City? Austin?

On his knees in front of Jim Delaney?

[Galaxy]

So who's jet is that that you guys are tracking?

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Rumors on the Utah board is that Utah has an offer to the PAC-10

I think that was a strong possibility at one time, but I believe Texas will lobby for Kansas over Utah if A&M doesn't come around.

[sterlingice]

(Not saying it's right or wrong but, out of curiosity, why would Texas lobby for us?)

EDIT: I guess there's a scenario out there where Mizzou gets to the Big 10, KU to the Pac 10, and that leaves only ISU, KSU, and Baylor to reject the breaking up of the Big XII but that seems far afield as if Texas spurns the Big 10, why would they help Texas out and take Mizzou?

SI

[MJ4H]

--deleted drama llama posts--

sorry

[sterlingice]

Drama llama? Actually, that's kindof funny. Hadn't heard it before but it appears to be a popular meme on teh interwebs.

SI

[sterlingice]

Ok, here's my crazy new MWC scenario laid out. It has no chance in hell of happening due to a couple of major issues:
1)Baylor-TCU spat
2)There are probably a couple of parties- namely Mizzou, Kansas, and Utah- who might have better options out there and might act on those
3)The MWC might see a better candidate in some pool of Nevada, Fresno State, Houston, UTEP, SMU, or Tulsa than I listed above
4)Memphis will look at this and say "hey, we said a BCS conference but we didn't mean this frankenstein mess"

But I still like fleshing it out all the same. So here are the dominoes falling:

The Texas 6 is now whittled down to the Texas 5 as the Pac-10 already has Colorado. So, Texas, Tech, A&M, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma State come on board. So there's your Pac 16. If A&M goes to the SEC, the Pac-10 might want Utah so, again, another possible pitfall.

The Big 10 keeps slow playing, trying to get Notre Dame and expand their footprint east, taking a giant chomp out of the Big East and forcing Notre Dame to play ball. So, in other words, nothing changes.

That way the Big XII is left with 5- Kansas, Mizzou, Kansas State, Iowa State, and Baylor. They reach an agreement with the MWC to absorb them but some sort of power sharing occurs where everyone is magically happy with their new station in life including both conference presidents, etc (yeah, that'll happen).

Then, with one spot remaining, they offer to Memphis to get their FedEx money and to help the conference in basketball. It doesn't really stretch the geography of the conference much as they're pretty much due south of Columbia, Mo. This way the conference gets a $16M windfall from the new bowl, aka $1M apiece and the bowl now is tied into the conference, something that the Big XII really never had except sortof the Fiesta Bowl. Hell, you really want to stick it to Texas, elevate the Cotton Bowl to just rub it in their face.

Then you come calling for the abandonment fees from the old Big XII schools, which is roughly $10~$20M per school. Now, counting 7 schools at, let's say, $16M apiece to make it easy (since we're splitting it 16 ways), that's $7M in free cash to help improve facilities at some of the "lesser" schools. That can go a long way to help bump up some programs.

Then, you put pen to paper and draw it up. It's probably going to look like this. The notations are are football ranking, bowl/no bowl, basketball ranking, tourney/no tourney from last year.

East:
--/NB/#1/To Kansas
--/Bw/#7/To Kansas State
--/Bw/--/To Mizzou
--/Bw/--/NT Iowa State
--/NB/19/To Baylor
--/--/--/To Memphis
#6/Bo/--/NT TCU
--/NB/#8/To New Mexico

West:
#4/Bo/--/NT Boise St
12/Bo/17/To BYU
18/Bo/--/NT Utah
--/Bo/--/NT Air Force
--/Bo/--/NT Wyoming
--/NB/--/To UNLV
--/NB/--/To SDSU
--/NB/--/NT Colorado St

So, of the 16 teams- everyone except Colorado State either made a bowl game or the NCAA tourney or both including some really high basketball seeds and a couple of BCS bowls. It's not a bad group at the end of the day and there are a lot of built in advantages out there.

SI

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Ok, here's my crazy new MWC scenario laid out. It has no chance in hell of happening due to a couple of major issues:
1)Baylor-TCU spat
2)There are probably a couple of parties- namely Mizzou, Kansas, and Utah- who might have better options out there and might act on those
3)The MWC might see a better candidate in some pool of Nevada, Fresno State, Houston, UTEP, SMU, or Tulsa than I listed above
4)Memphis will look at this and say "hey, we said a BCS conference but we didn't mean this frankenstein mess"

But I still like fleshing it out all the same. So here are the dominoes falling:

The Texas 6 is now whittled down to the Texas 5 as the Pac-10 already has Colorado. So, Texas, Tech, A&M, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma State come on board. So there's your Pac 16. If A&M goes to the SEC, the Pac-10 might want Utah so, again, another possible pitfall.

The Big 10 keeps slow playing, trying to get Notre Dame and expand their footprint east, taking a giant chomp out of the Big East and forcing Notre Dame to play ball. So, in other words, nothing changes.

That way the Big XII is left with 5- Kansas, Mizzou, Kansas State, Iowa State, and Baylor. They reach an agreement with the MWC to absorb them but some sort of power sharing occurs where everyone is magically happy with their new station in life including both conference presidents, etc (yeah, that'll happen).

Then, with one spot remaining, they offer to Memphis to get their FedEx money and to help the conference in basketball. It doesn't really stretch the geography of the conference much as they're pretty much due south of Columbia, Mo. This way the conference gets a $16M windfall from the new bowl, aka $1M apiece and the bowl now is tied into the conference, something that the Big XII really never had except sortof the Fiesta Bowl. Hell, you really want to stick it to Texas, elevate the Cotton Bowl to just rub it in their face.

Then you come calling for the abandonment fees from the old Big XII schools, which is roughly $10~$20M per school. Now, counting 7 schools at, let's say, $16M apiece to make it easy (since we're splitting it 16 ways), that's $7M in free cash to help improve facilities at some of the "lesser" schools. That can go a long way to help bump up some programs.

Then, you put pen to paper and draw it up. It's probably going to look like this. The notations are are football ranking, bowl/no bowl, basketball ranking, tourney/no tourney from last year.

East:
--/NB/#1/To Kansas
--/Bw/#7/To Kansas State
--/Bw/--/To Mizzou
--/Bw/--/NT Iowa State
--/NB/19/To Baylor
--/--/--/To Memphis
#6/Bo/--/NT TCU
--/NB/#8/To New Mexico

West:
#4/Bo/--/NT Boise St
12/Bo/17/To BYU
18/Bo/--/NT Utah
--/Bo/--/NT Air Force
--/Bo/--/NT Wyoming
--/NB/--/To UNLV
--/NB/--/To SDSU
--/NB/--/NT Colorado St

So, of the 16 teams- everyone except Colorado State either made a bowl game or the NCAA tourney or both including some really high basketball seeds and a couple of BCS bowls. It's not a bad group at the end of the day and there are a lot of built in advantages out there.

SI

KU, MU, KSU, and ISU would take a huge hit when it comes to revenue. The MWC makes about $2 million per team now. You add the Big 12 leftovers and you might get up to $5 million per team. Compare to the other BCS conferences who have the ability to make $15-$20 million then you can see where the problem lies. So basically the MWC would have a BCS bid, but would pretty much be a mid-major when it comes to revenue.

Plus we know MU has had wandering eyes so how long do they stay in the conference? If you throw out the tv revenue the MWC would actually be a very solid conference. But sadly tv revenue is now a major player.

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Interesting ... Missouri curators are meeting, mostly by teleconference. Among those not in the room -- Missouri AD Mike Alden, who is on the conference call. Wonder where Mr. Alden is? KC? Salt Lake City? Austin?

If he's smart, Alden is on the phone with the SEC or the Big Ten.

[SackAttack]

What the_meanstrosity said.

At best, it would be a one-year windfall for the MWC (and even that might be stretching the term).

Long-term, it wouldn't come close to the other BCS conferences. There just isn't the right mix of a) market sizes and b) out-of-market passion with the teams you'd have there.

[MJ4H]

While all this is going down, Texas A&M's AD has been on vacation in Idaho.

Who goes on vacation to Idaho?

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Who goes on vacation to Idaho?

I can only think of people who love putting on floating greens.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

But the status quo was what Texas wanted, hence the ultimatum given to Nebraska to crap or get off the pot. Texas was "on the plane" with the Big 12. The didn't want this but will do whatever is in their best interest.

I think that's bull. I think Texas knew that Nebraska would leave, since it made so much sense, and used it as the way to get their own way, by saying, Hey we tried, and then bolt for more $$$ and do what you want to do. One or two teams leaving did not affects the Big 12 that much - just see the Big East from a few years ago that came back from many of their teams leaving, and this would still have Ok and Texas. If they issued the ultimatum, then they are responsible for the fall, not Nebraska, mot Missouri and Not Colorado.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

So who's jet is that that you guys are tracking?

Larry Scott (PAC-10 Commish)
Pat Kilkenny - Oregon Booster and former interim Oregon AD and Nike guy

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

While all this is going down, Texas A&M's AD has been on vacation in Idaho.

Who goes on vacation to Idaho?

On Friday I agreed to an interview with U of Idaho for a job.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

On Friday I agreed to an interview with U of Idaho for a job.

If you get it, make sure to go out of state for your vacations.

[MrBug708]

Idaho is actually a nice state to visit if you like being outdoors with a lot of space

[Izulde]

I met Idaho once, and, as I remarked to someone afterwards, 'tis a pity she's a whore.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Idaho is actually a nice state to visit if you like being outdoors with a lot of space

I'll second this. My wife's cousin lived there for a while and we went out there for her wedding. Enjoyed the trip a lot.

[MJ4H]

OK, guys. I was joking about Idaho. Hell, I would say the same thing about probably 35 other states, including my own. I agree it's cool (but I've only been through it once), but it seems like a bizarre side-note in this whole thing.

I mean, your school is going through some massively future-altering decisions here, and you are unable to drag yourself back...from Idaho? I could see Aruba or hell even New Zealand.

Maybe it only seems bizarre to me.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

OK, guys. I was joking about Idaho. Hell, I would say the same thing about probably 35 other states, including my own. I agree it's cool (but I've only been through it once), but it seems like a bizarre side-note in this whole thing.

I mean, your school is going through some massively future-altering decisions here, and you are unable to drag yourself back...from Idaho? I could see Aruba or hell even New Zealand.

Maybe it only seems bizarre to me.

I'd agree with you if I thought AD's were really that involved in this decision. At most (all?) schools, the negotiations are above them. However, for appearances, I agree that the AD should have ended his vacation early.