2020 Democratic Primaries/General Election Thread

[Front Office Midget]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

If you follow their group in Reddit, yes, yes they will. They're already throwing their tantrums and screaming about being happy if the party gets fucked over to radicalize more people who will be angry about losing.



So they're ready to let the country get fucked for the next 20-30 years now, just so they can get people to their side after and get power. I mean, that's rather scorched earth, but when your primary opposition outlaw's your party and policies and makes you irrelevant because you couldn't pull your shit together.....I doubt they'll see even that as a loss. Remind of those people who know who always need to feed the drama beast.

Do people actually know Bernie Sanders supporters in real life or are you just basing it off of a loud minority on REDDIT of all places?

As far as I've seen, this "Bernie Bro" "temper tantrum" business still seems like a straw man fallacy to me. I live in an extremely progressive bubble and have never heard anything resembling the caricatures I read here.

A lot of Bernie supporters are people who would *already* be voting Green or Independent or staying home, but are throwing their support behind a "Democrat" who actually stands for their values instead of one who offends them by assuming they have their vote because they are the "lesser of two evils". It's offensive to think we should be expected to vote for someone who voted for the Iraq War and has been on the wrong side of many issues, which Rainmaker has pointed out.

It says something that the primary "smear" on Bernie right now is that he said positive things about literacy programs in the Castro regime. That's because he's been right on most important issues, that the establishment is grasping at straws to tarnish his name because they know that McCarthyism is still alive and well in America. Also because the electorate is largely ignorant on U.S. policies in the western hemisphere (and elsewhere) that have been willing to support authoritarian regimes as long as those regimes support American corporatism.

Democrats tried a "safe, electable" candidate in 2016 and look how it worked out. Somehow, 4 years later, they still seem to think that the same strategy will work this time "because now the other evil is REALLY bad, and we're so much lesser!" ay ay ay. "Leftists better support the conservative Democrat or they're the reason we lose!" lol

I'll vote Biden in November if I must, but I wouldn't fault anyone who will not. As Rainmaker alluded to, is Biden really less likely to get us into a new war than the current President? I guess we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

[Front Office Midget]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

It shouldn't. If Bernie has the movement he says he does then he'll win big tomorrow and it'll be hard to catch him. They need to go out and win or stop complaining if they don't. They could be trying to convince the supporters of Pete and Amy to join them. It's no guarantee they go to Biden.

Dola:

Agreed completely. But we live in such a fractured society. I literally don't know anyone who has said they support Pete, Amy, or Biden.

[JPhillips]

It’s a contest for votes. There’s no conspiracy, just go win. I expect by the end of the week it will be down to two, so one of them will win enough to get the nomination.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by Arles

...means making sure their best candidate (in the minds of the leadership) gets the nomination.

Wasn't this already what they tried to do last time with HRC?

[GrantDawg]

Chris Matthews is pulling out of the race and endorsing Biden.

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[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by Front Office Midget

Do people actually know Bernie Sanders supporters in real life or are you just basing it off of a loud minority on REDDIT of all places?

Why does the "BernieBro" myth persist? Because pundits don't understand how the internet works | Salon.com

[JPhillips]

Pete, Amy, and now Beto all on stage and endorsing. That’s a baller move.

[Edward64]

It's so good to see true democrats coalescing under a democratic candidate.

Let's hope it's not too late to save the Democratic party from the outsider extremist commie-lover (who should just create his own socialist party).

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Are we still blaming Jill Stein voters or is it Russia that did it to Hillary?

That's some of the most ill-thought out, linear, Pavlovian thinking we've seen around here. I'm pretty sure you missed my favorite. Sanders supporters who either didn't vote or swapped to t, just to 'prove a point.'

[tarcone]

Wow. Biden vs. trump. Dems giving up?

Love when the progressive party throws out an old white dude with neurological issues.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Chris Matthews is pulling out of the race and endorsing Biden.

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Wow Chris Matthews just retired on air, with no warning and apologized for his comments on women-wonder what the back story is there? I was never a big fan of his, but certainly surprised to see him leave.

[molson]

Imagine a Sanders presidency where not only he'd be obstructed by Republicans, but also, presumably Democrats, who, they believe, are trying to the rig this entire process, including by sabotaging the Iowa caucus app just to screw him over.

Would Sanders supporters' support him expanding the power of the executive branch to enact progressive policy that cannot be enacted through legislative means? Like executive orders to cancel student debt or expand healthcare?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Wow Chris Matthews just retired on air, with no warning and apologized for his comments on women-wonder what the back story is there?

It's believed to have been a reference to a several years(?) old comment he made complimenting someone on their appearance. The abrupt move comes after a meeting today which followed a recent string of several on-air / public gaffes. (I suspect that age may have been starting to catch up with him honestly)

I'm obviously shedding no tears over his departure however as a former on-air talent, I will say that he certainly just lived out a dream pretty much every single one of us had at some point. Leaving Karnacki (?) to live out the nightmare that goes with it, which is unfortunate even if have no love for him either.

[GrantDawg]

To fight the old white guy with obvious neurological issues the Republican party is rolling out?

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[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Arles

A buddy of mine posed an interesting question to me today and I'd like to hear what you guys think. You have to chose one:

1. Biden or Bernie wins, but the economy is in a downward trend (through no fault of their own - just the normal cycle). Republicans pounce and gain seats in the senate/house, setting them up for a strong 2024. But, you don't have to deal with Trump anymore.

2. Trump wins but the same economic issues appear. He goes even more off the rails and democrats make gains in the senate/house. You have to deal with Trump for another 4 years, but the democrats are actually in a strong position to have a group capable of making change if the candidate in 2024 can win.

This is actually pretty tough for me because 4 more years of Trump would be hard to stomach. But, I think I chose option 2 for the chance at some real reform on gun control, health care and cleaner energy for 2024.

1.

4 more years of Trump and we may not have much of a country left worth saving.

[ISiddiqui]

You know Biden's speech accepting Buttigieg's endorsement is one of the most gracious political speech I've ever heard - almost like Biden was endorsing Buttigieg. A very very good speech as well.

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[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Wow. Biden vs. trump. Dems giving up?

Love when the progressive party throws out an old white dude with neurological issues.

Believe me, I'm as disappointed as anyone. I am so over this demographic and their hold on political power. They just keep fucking over Gen X, and it never ends.



Although, I'm sure you'd have had a powerfully snarky message no matter who they decided to fall in behind.



Someone on my feed was all pissed that the DNC wasn't letting the same thing happen to them that happened with trump. Like why would the D's want that mess? Makes sense to pragmatically look at the numbers and move forward from there.



Sanders isn't a D. Should he take the nomination I'll support him, but....then again, that's how I feel about Biden too.



One of the pod's that I was listening to this morning said that Sanders can beat trump, but that he will need more young people to come out than came out for Obama, and Biden can beat trump if more moderates and independents come out than came out for Obama. Which I thought was interesting. They both need elements that play to their strengths, but more, because they have weaknesses.


Which brings me to Obama, who I'm sure will come out for Biden and bring a big kick in the pants should he move forward as the nominee. I'm kind of looking forward to the General just for the ads.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Lathum

1.

4 more years of Trump and we may not have much of a country left worth saving.

4 more years and we may not have any future legitimate elections.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Edward64

It's so good to see true democrats coalescing under a democratic candidate.

Let's hope it's not too late to save the Democratic party from the outsider extremist commie-lover (who should just create his own socialist party).

The party should definitely nominate people Trump supporters find palatable.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

It's believed to have been a reference to a several years(?) old comment he made complimenting someone on their appearance. The abrupt move comes after a meeting today which followed a recent string of several on-air / public gaffes. (I suspect that age may have been starting to catch up with him honestly)

I'm obviously shedding no tears over his departure however as a former on-air talent, I will say that he certainly just lived out a dream pretty much every single one of us had at some point. Leaving Karnacki (?) to live out the nightmare that goes with it, which is unfortunate even if have no love for him either.

Rumors are there are some more stories coming out.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

Sanders isn't a D. Should he take the nomination I'll support him, but....then again, that's how I feel about Biden too.

It's funny how the line is that Sanders isn't a Democrat (which is technically true). But the same people get really mad when his supporters won't commit to voting for the Democratic nominee. Like you're not part of our party but you better vote for us!

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

It's believed to have been a reference to a several years(?) old comment he made complimenting someone on their appearance. The abrupt move comes after a meeting today which followed a recent string of several on-air / public gaffes. (I suspect that age may have been starting to catch up with him honestly)

I'm obviously shedding no tears over his departure however as a former on-air talent, I will say that he certainly just lived out a dream pretty much every single one of us had at some point. Leaving Karnacki (?) to live out the nightmare that goes with it, which is unfortunate even if have no love for him either.

Thanks Jon for the catch-up. I have thought for a long time that there was something going wrong with him mentally, and would not be surprised to see that come out at some point. Karnacki is a whiz at election results/politics. He certainly seems a better choice than Matthews at the moment. Nicole Wallace is being mentioned too as a replacement. Interestingly enough so is Shep Smith which I don't think is possible with his terms over leaving Fox

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It's funny how the line is that Sanders isn't a Democrat (which is technically true). But the same people get really mad when his supporters won't commit to voting for the Democratic nominee. Like you're not part of our party but you better vote for us!

If you're gonna play in the sandbox you should probably act like you belong there.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The party should definitely nominate people Trump supporters find palatable.

Maybe but better than the alternatives ... nominate a socialist-commie-lover who Trump will quash; or if the commie-lover somehow wins, be rudderless because he has little support in Congress.

[GrantDawg]

Rainmaker, if you prefer Trump, it is fine to not vote for whoever the Dem candidate is. If you care more for your "rightness" than the country, you do you.

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[JPhillips]

Reports are Matthews was somewhere between a mutual parting and a firing. If that's true, they really screwed the newsroom in not telling anyone this was coming tonight.

[tarcone]

Mayor Pete should have been the poster child of the Dem party. With the exception of color, he is everything the Dems should want.

But, nope, they throw out a retread. And an old white guy to beat.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by tarcone

With the exception of color, he is everything the Dems should want.

Pretty damn big exception. He should figure a way to appeal to "those people of color".

Maybe be a patient grasshopper, spend some time in a cabinet post or special representative and build that trust, support, relationship. Same for you also Amy. Both of you have bright futures in the Democratic party and I'm sure we'll see you again in 4-8-12-16 years.

[panerd]

Has anyone in the DNC really thought out long term what the plan is with Biden? Suppose he is the nominee and he wins they cant possibly think they can run him out again at age 81 can they?

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by panerd

Has anyone in the DNC really thought out long term what the plan is with Biden? Suppose he is the nominee and he wins they cant possibly think they can run him out again at age 81 can they?

Yeah they obviously need to get a younger VP with him to be able to run next cycle.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Mayor Pete should have been the poster child of the Dem party. With the exception of color, he is everything the Dems should want.

But, nope, they throw out a retread. And an old white guy to beat.

Eh, Pete is CIA-lite that was bankrolled by Wall Street. The whole thing felt phony to me. His statements read like daily affirmations and his mimicking of Obama got creepy.

Still think Warren is probably the prototype. Policies appeal to moderates and progressives in the party. She ran a terrible campaign though.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Maybe but better than the alternatives ... nominate a socialist-commie-lover who Trump will quash; or if the commie-lover somehow wins, be rudderless because he has little support in Congress.

Your boy nationalized the agriculture business and heavily restricted free trade. Not to mention all those giveaways to the mining industry. Calls Kim Jong-Un and MBS friends. If you're worried about the reds coming, you're too late.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Your boy nationalized the agriculture business and heavily restricted free trade. Not to mention all those giveaways to the mining industry. Calls Kim Jong-Un and MBS friends. If you're worried about the reds coming, you're too late.

Links? I am sure you there is some hyperbole there (e.g. Hillary is a Republican) and want to understand your context.

Biden didn't do a commie-musical at the height of the cold war. I'll be glad to supply that link if you haven't seen it already.

So why doesn't he just start his own socialist-commie-loving party? Sure he's going to take voters away from the Dems, but he was "a" reason Hillary lost in 2016 because of his divisiveness and sour-puss Bernie Bros & Sis.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

If you're gonna play in the sandbox you should probably act like you belong there.

That's fine. Just don't cry about their votes afterwards.

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Rainmaker, if you prefer Trump, it is fine to not vote for whoever the Dem candidate is. If you care more for your "rightness" than the country, you do you.

Trump is bad and I don't want him. I also think Biden has a track record of being wrong about almost every major decision this country has made in the past 30 year. Now he's senile.

I'd vote Biden because he is the better choice. But I understand why people who were anti-Iraq war or tired of this country being run as a plutocracy would sit home for this one. Heck, if foreign policy is your primary concern, I could even see why people would switch to Trump because at least he's been anti-war.

Originally Posted by panerd

Has anyone in the DNC really thought out long term what the plan is with Biden? Suppose he is the nominee and he wins they cant possibly think they can run him out again at age 81 can they?

The DNC is the New York Knicks of politics. The answer to whether they've thought ahead on anything is likely no.

[JPhillips]

If the Knicks had won 4 of the last 7 championships and had scored more points in two of the three they lost.

The problem for the DNC hasn't been at the presidential level.

[JPhillips]

dola

Bernie campaigning with Marianne Williamson is a really bad look.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

If the Knicks had won 4 of the last 7 championships and had scored more points in two of the three they lost.

The problem for the DNC hasn't been at the presidential level.

Let's not forget that there are only two teams. Not to mention the fact that of the past 10 individuals that the Democrats have selected to run under their banner, only three have been elected President.

I wouldn't call 3 out of 10 a great track record as far as getting it right.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Biden didn't do a commie-musical at the height of the cold war. I'll be glad to supply that link if you haven't seen it already.

Biden voted for a trillion dollar bank bailout (of which his sons firm got over $130 million from). Supported the nationalization of Freddie and Fannie Mae which cost taxpayers $125 billion. Whipped votes for a multi-billion dollar auto handout, crafted the massive bailout to credit card companies in the 2005 bankruptcy bill, and created a loophole to place student loan debt in its own special category to again bailout the banks.

He has repeatedly voted and advocated for extending handouts to the agricultural industry. Voted for Bush's energy policy that gave $15 billion to the energy companies. Supported Obama's green energy subsidies that mainly went to Obama's supporters. And of course praised Obamacare which was an enormous subsidy to the health insurance and pharmaceutical industry.

His foreign policy has amounted to using Iraq as a taxpayer piggy bank for contractors of which his other son was a beneficiary of $1.5 billion. He has proudly touted the billions in tax dollars he has helped push toward Central America to install regimes friendly to certain businesses here (again, another handout).

If you're concerned about the capitalism seeing its demise, you're a little late.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by Carman Bulldog

Let's not forget that there are only two teams. Not to mention the fact that of the past 10 individuals that the Democrats have selected to run under their banner, only three have been elected President.

I wouldn't call 3 out of 10 a great track record as far as getting it right.

DOLA: On top of this, one of those three was also the only elected incumbent in the past 88 years not to win re-election. So we're probably closer to a 2.5 out of 10. If a 25% success rate for the Democratic nominee is the bar, then the DNC is hitting it out of the park.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Bernie campaigning with Marianne Williamson is a really bad look.

It fits, Bernie is an atheist so he must be doing the new-age thing.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

That's fine. Just don't cry about their votes afterwards.

Those people are the worst. I'll complain all day long about people who would rather see the SCOTUS and the entire Judicial of the US set up to oppose them for the next 30 years, who will completely remake the landscape of life in the US, than be a bit pragmatic and actually get somewhere in the direction they want to go. That's the sort of dogmatic adherence that has no value when it comes to actually governing.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

If the Knicks had won 4 of the last 7 championships and had scored more points in two of the three they lost.

The problem for the DNC hasn't been at the presidential level.

They just lost an election to a game show host and will probably do it again in November. Got lucky with a once-in-a-generation political figure who captivated the nation and proceeded to take that and roll around in a puddle of shit when he took office.

Lets take a look at some of the leaders of the DNC over the years. Howard Dean is now a lobbyist for the insurance industry. Wasserman-Schultz got booed off stage at the last convention. And Donna Brazile who was chair TWICE is cashing checks on Fox News. Truly the cream of the crop.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Biden voted for a trillion dollar bank bailout (of which his sons firm got over $130 million from). Supported the nationalization of Freddie and Fannie Mae which cost taxpayers $125 billion. Whipped votes for a multi-billion dollar auto handout, crafted the massive bailout to credit card companies in the 2005 bankruptcy bill, and created a loophole to place student loan debt in its own special category to again bailout the banks.

He has repeatedly voted and advocated for extending handouts to the agricultural industry. Voted for Bush's energy policy that gave $15 billion to the energy companies. Supported Obama's green energy subsidies that mainly went to Obama's supporters. And of course praised Obamacare which was an enormous subsidy to the health insurance and pharmaceutical industry.

His foreign policy has amounted to using Iraq as a taxpayer piggy bank for contractors of which his other son was a beneficiary of $1.5 billion. He has proudly touted the billions in tax dollars he has helped push toward Central America to install regimes friendly to certain businesses here (again, another handout).

If you're concerned about the capitalism seeing its demise, you're a little late.

So tie all of this together with your original below ... where was the nationalization of agriculture and heavily restricted free trade? and would like to read more about KJU and MBS (think these are easily explainable). Links please.

Your boy nationalized the agriculture business and heavily restricted free trade. Not to mention all those giveaways to the mining industry. Calls Kim Jong-Un and MBS friends

BTW - how can anyone vote for a person for US President that said it was a mistake for him to vote for the Afghan war resolution? US gets attacked, US attacks AQ & Taliban ... initial war is clearly justified. If not after 9/11 attacks, when ever will he fight back?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Edward64

So tie all of this together with your original below ... where was the nationalization of agriculture and heavily restricted free trade? and would like to read more about KJU and MBS (think these are easily explainable). Links please.

Here's your nationalization.

IF OUR FORMALLY TARGETED FARMERS NEED ADDITIONAL AID UNTIL SUCH TIME AS THE TRADE DEALS WITH CHINA, MEXICO, CANADA AND OTHERS FULLY KICK IN, THAT AID WILL BE PROVIDED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, PAID FOR OUT OF THE MASSIVE TARIFF MONEY COMING INTO THE USA!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) February 21, 2020

Here's your restrictions on free trade.

Trump tariffs - Wikipedia

You're active in the political threads. Have you just not watched any news the past 3 years?

Here he is calling KJU his friend.

....Chariman Kim has a great and beautiful vision for his country, and only the United States, with me as President, can make that vision come true. He will do the right thing because he is far too smart not to, and he does not want to disappoint his friend, President Trump!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 2, 2019

Here is his calling MBS his friend.

[bronconick]

If Bernie has the capacity to expand the electorate, then he'll win the primary. If the extent that he can expand it is overated, then Biden will win. Bernie supporters need to stop whining and back up what Sanders claims at his rallies.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by bronconick

If Bernie has the capacity to expand the electorate, then he'll win the primary. If the extent that he can expand it is overated, then Biden will win. Bernie supporters need to stop whining and back up what Sanders claims at his rallies.

I agree. If Bernie can win despite the establishment coming together against him then the electability argument goes out the window.

The worst thing that could happen for Dems, though, is a contested convention with Bernie holding the majority of delegates and losing the nomination to Biden. That's Trump's easiest path to a 2020 win.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Edward64

BTW - how can anyone vote for a person for US President that said it was a mistake for him to vote for the Afghan war resolution? US gets attacked, US attacks AQ & Taliban ... initial war is clearly justified. If not after 9/11 attacks, when ever will he fight back?

The people who funded and trained AQ and the Taliban (and still do!) are Saudi Arabia, UAE, and Pakistan.

The issue with the war is there was no defined goal. The Taliban and Afghanistan was not a threat to the United States. It still isn't. The enemy was a stateless terrorist organization that is funded by our "allies". If this was truly about fighting back, those bombs would have been dropped over other countries.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Here's your nationalization.

IF OUR FORMALLY TARGETED FARMERS NEED ADDITIONAL AID UNTIL SUCH TIME AS THE TRADE DEALS WITH CHINA, MEXICO, CANADA AND OTHERS FULLY KICK IN, THAT AID WILL BE PROVIDED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, PAID FOR OUT OF THE MASSIVE TARIFF MONEY COMING INTO THE USA!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) February 21, 2020

Here's your restrictions on free trade.

Trump tariffs - Wikipedia

You're active in the political threads. Have you just not watched any news the past 3 years?

Here he is calling KJU his friend.

....Chariman Kim has a great and beautiful vision for his country, and only the United States, with me as President, can make that vision come true. He will do the right thing because he is far too smart not to, and he does not want to disappoint his friend, President Trump!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 2, 2019

Here is his calling MBS his friend.

Trump? I thought we were talking about Biden and how I preferred Biden over Sanders. Good tangent and attempt at redirection.

At least Biden isn't a dead beat dad who had a child out of wedlock, and didn't step up to support mother and child, leaving them on welfare.



BTW - I'll gladly discuss with you about my support of Trump's policies on illegal immigration, China etc. but let's focus on Biden because this thread is the 2020 Democratic Primaries Thread and not the Trump 2020 thread.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The people who funded and trained AQ and the Taliban (and still do!) are Saudi Arabia, UAE, and Pakistan.

The issue with the war is there was no defined goal. The Taliban and Afghanistan was not a threat to the United States. It still isn't. The enemy was a stateless terrorist organization that is funded by our "allies". If this was truly about fighting back, those bombs would have been dropped over other countries.

Bernie supported the resolution when first introduced and then said it was a mistake much later. Therefore, if he had to do it all over again, he would not have support the resolution to attack the Taliban & AQ in Afghanistan back in 2001. Are you disputing this?

Your second paragraph is weird. Initially (which is what we are talking about), there obviously was a defined goal. Taliban & AQ were clearly a threat to the US (like how you left out AQ). This was truly about fighting back against "who attacked us militarily".

Direct question to you - would you have supported the Afghan resolution when first introduced in 2001? I think the answer is no because you have said the only war you would have supported was WW2 but just want to confirm that you have the same position as that atheist, deadbeat dad.

[RainMaker]

You brought up the evils of socialism and I pointed out the guys you stan for love giving out trillions in government handouts.