*World Cup Game Discussion Thread* (SPOILERS)

[Flasch186]

i'd like to call for that apology again

[Critch]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

The flag was up, Koreans stop, Swiss score a goal, goal stands.

It was the correct call, Tommy Smyth just doesn't know the rules. It was a square pass that the Korean intercepted and knocked through. You can't be offside if it's an opposing player who played the ball.

And stopping because the flag is up? The flag is only ever guidance, from earliest soccer you're taught to play to the whistle.

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by Critch

It was the correct call, Tommy Smyth just doesn't know the rules. It was a square pass that the Korean intercepted and knocked through. You can't be offside if it's an opposing player who played the ball.

And stopping because the flag is up? The flag is only ever guidance, from earliest soccer you're taught to play to the whistle.

Ah, just saw the replay again. I had thought the ball was just a pass by the Swiss but it does indeed go off the Korean.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

The refs are raping the Koreans with a missing penalty kick when a swiss defender hand balled and now this?


-Anxiety

Well, Korea kinda needed the refs to be sitting at 4 our of 2 in the first place. They give some, they take some, in the end it should even out. Or so one hopes.

[MIJB#19]

48 games played, my new rankings. All feel inspired to counter my list with your own list!

1. Argentina
2. Spain
3. Brazil
4. Italy
5. Germany
6. Portugal
7. Netherlands
8. Ivory Coast
9. England
10. Switzerland
11. France
12. Ghana
13. Czech Republic
14. Sweden
15. Mexico
16. Ukraine
17. Australia
18. Croatia
19. Ecuador
20. USA
21. Serbia & Montenegro
22. Paraguay
23. South Korea
24. Angola
25. Togo
27. Poland
28. Japan
28. Tunisia
29. Trinidad & Tobago
30. Iran
31. Costa Rica
32. Saudi Arabia

[vex]

From the Daily Oklahoman:


Taking a dive part of the World Cup game


By Andrew Gilman
Soccer may be the world's most-popular game, but on the field, acting seems to be the most-popular sport.

Welcome to the World Cup where floppers are in fashion, diving is all the rage and feigning a life-threatening injury is just part of the game. But what is happening in Germany isn't staying in Germany. At every level of soccer these days, a slight push looks like a shove and a trip and fall might as well be the same as losing life or limb.
"It appears that if you scream and roll over four times, you'll get a free kick and the other player will get a card," said Keith Eddy, who played soccer professionally in England, and played alongside Pele for the New York Cosmos of the North American Soccer League. "It's become common for the stretcher to come out, a player to go off. They limp around for about 10 seconds and they're back on the field again."
Soccer is centered around the feet, but it's the head games that make the biggest difference -- particularly on the World Cup stage. A good dive here or a good fake fall there can easily influence a referee's decision. And with goals at a premium at the World Cup, one call can make all the difference.
And that, more than anything encourages players to try their hand -- and feet -- at acting.
"The referees are certainly being influenced," said Eddy. "And in soccer, more than any other sport, that's huge."
Vlade Divac flops in an NBA game, he may get a free throw out of the deal. But if Brazil's Renaldo dives, grabs his ankle in sheer agony and pain, he may get a free kick.
"I think we're seeing that the players make the fouls look worse than they really are," said Brian Harvey, Oklahoma City University soccer coach and a former professional player in England and Australia. "Players are looking to gain an advantage from diving or flopping. One minute they are writhing in pain and the next they are like Lazarus, rising from death."
And that's led to players of all ages doing what comes natural -- mimicking their soccer role models -- and that might not be such a good thing.
"The problem is that kids are great imitators," Harvey said. "If they see the stars falling about and drawing fouls, they think they can pull one over the referee as well. Let's just say it's not something we encourage."
However, it is something that works. What flailing does is cause attention, and when there's just one referee, there may not be a better way to turn someone's head than to cover your own with your arms while laying on the ground in mock pain.
"It's a difficult game to referee," Eddy said. "There are so many subjective calls. Referees have to recognize when players are acting. And that's not easy to do."
The Ghana players stayed on the ground a bit longer than usual after contact with U.S. players during its 2-1 World Cup win Thursday.
Yet, Ghana also benefitted from a penalty kick, that led to its second goal. Then again, Claudio Renya crumpled to the ground -- maybe in hopes to get a call -- was carted off the field, yet he returned.
"It's dramatics," said Jesse Failey, an assistant coach at Putnam City North who also played college soccer at Dayton, Ohio, and Oklahoma City. "It's not like in football, where you get hit and you go down. In soccer, you can cheat without cheating, but you don't like to see your kids doing it. It's a big part of the game."
And one that's been around for a while and created its share of problems. Enough problems that authority has been given to referees to call a foul on a player if the referee believes that player was faking an injury, acting or executing a dive. Hard to call, harder to tell if the player is acting.
"Guys know when there is contact, it helps to make sure the referee sees it," said Adam Brooks who formerly ran the independent soccer news and analysis site SoccerNationUSA and now plays on an indoor soccer team in Oklahoma City. "There's a lot of cynical play and some are worse than others. I wouldn't say that I see a lot of faking going on, but I do see guys letting themselves go."
Eddy and Harvey, both British, said the Italians and the Latin countries are known for their dramatics, yet both said the situation is getting worse -- everywhere. "It's a real bad part of the game," Eddy said of players who are hurting the integrity of the game. "But then again, it may be smart. They're playing to win, and if they can con referees, they will do it."

[Galaxy]

Updated bracket (the games are all in order of the winner of each game playing the next listed game in both brackets....

Sweden vs. Germany
Mexico vs. Argentina
Australia vs. Italy
Ukraine vs. Switzerland

The other bracket
Ecuador vs. England
Portugal vs. Netherlands
Ghana vs. Brazil
France vs. Spain

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Ryan S

Because there is no official game clock. The referee is the time keeper. The timer on your TV screen is unofficial.

That seems unbelievably ridiculous, especially after watching the bozos that call themselves in this WC.

Has it ever been discussed that an official clock should be installed to create some kind of sanity to the sport?

[bulletsponge]

Has it ever been discussed that an official clock should be installed to create some kind of sanity to the sport?

and take some power out of the officals hands? that mean the Italians would have to bribe even more people!

[Celeval]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

That seems unbelievably ridiculous, especially after watching the bozos that call themselves in this WC.

Has it ever been discussed that an official clock should be installed to create some kind of sanity to the sport?

Seriously? Doubt it, and I'd not want it to be. There's always going to be flexibility in the time - I mean, when do you decide to stop the clock? When to start it? This is a free-flowing game, and the moving clock is a part of that.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

That seems unbelievably ridiculous, especially after watching the bozos that call themselves in this WC.

Has it ever been discussed that an official clock should be installed to create some kind of sanity to the sport?

MLS did this, and everyone (Americans included) laughed it off as ridiculous (rightfully so).

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

That seems unbelievably ridiculous, especially after watching the bozos that call themselves in this WC.

Has it ever been discussed that an official clock should be installed to create some kind of sanity to the sport?

Wow, within just a few days of watching football, and knowing next to none of the rules, you have all of the answers

Football's different to almost every other sport in that human error is an accepted and integral part of the game. The chances of the game being Americanised to try and make it more regulated are pretty much zero - it's the biggest sport in the world, in terms of both participation and supporter numbers, and while FIFA would like to crack America, it's not the be-all end-all.

I would say that the refereering is an example that too much regulation is a bad thing. The refs are causing so much consternation not because they are making more mistakes necessarily, but because they have been told to interpret certain laws stringently, which players generally have been accepted that you won't get called for breaking in the past.

So the game has suddenly got more strict, fans and players aren't used to it, and the focus of the everything is the b*****d in the black. Then the mistakes they do make are magnified because all eyes are already on them.

But it is having the effect of creating controversy, and IMHO that's why football is so popular - 9 times out of 10 you can make a case that 'we wuz robbed' and the hope is never quite extinguished.

Sometimes you are beaten by a better team(I would say Leicester were beaten by a better team twice last season, yet we lost a lot more than that ) but if your star striker hadn't stubbed his toe shooting from 6 inches out, or the defender hadn't cleared the ball off the line, or the ref had seen the full back decapitate your winger, you would have won. Somebody has somewhere along the line almost always unfairly stolen your rightful victory, and if it wasn't a cheating opponent, or a biased ref, it was either your sulking #10, or failing that quite clearly the manager was to blame.

Football is a sport of continued disappointed occasionally interrupted by unexpected spurts of hope, and even more occasionally by brief moments of unreal ecstacy (kinda like my sex life actually, but that's another story )

USA, rightly or wrongly, is seen as a country that is generally impatient, will only tolerate winners, and is not prepared to go through the bad times to enjoy the good. Freddie Mercury sang 'I want it all and I want it now': Unfortunately this is not what football is all about, and for that reason I believe it will not be more than a minority sport in the immediate US future.

Calls to regulate the clock give an indication of why it won't work, while I'm not sure whether the quite frankly ridiculous defence of Mastroeni's tackle is another example, or an indication that football has a chance: you will not find a finer example of football fans' true subjectivity than those earlier in this thread

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

while I'm not sure whether the quite frankly ridiculous defence of Mastroeni's tackle is another example, or an indication that football has a chance: you will not find a finer example of football fans' true subjectivity than those earlier in this thread

Well, since I was probably the most vigorous defender of the tackle, I guess this is pointed towards me.

Since I've lived in Europe for several years, and have played soccer since I was 5 (and still do at (almost) 34), I'm probably not the recent convert you speak of as giving USA soccer a chance.

But I still will argue that the challenge was not a red card offense, and was a make-up call. I've even gotten several Italians to admit this as well, but who knows what their story would be if the Azzuri weren't already in the 2nd round.

[RPI-Fan]

I actually agreed with what Crapshoot said 100% about the Ghana game and on.

Arena was pathetic. All his moves were bad, but the one I don't get it subbing OUT Lewis late in the game?!!?!??! I just can't grasp that. We should have had Onyewu and a couple midfielders as our "defense" those last 15 minutes. But we had 3 central defenders and a defensive fullback???? Crazy and dumb.

Olsen I thought I would be mad about but he actually played quite well -- brought a lot of energy, which no one else did.

I have so many thoughts on the US team and Arena right now (all negative unless Onyewu or Dempsey are involved), but I just don't have the patience or emotional stability to really worry about it that much at this point.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

The refs are causing so much consternation not because they are making more mistakes necessarily, but because they have been told to interpret certain laws stringently, which players generally have been accepted that you won't get called for breaking in the past.

So the game has suddenly got more strict, fans and players aren't used to it, and the focus of the everything is the b*****d in the black. Then the mistakes they do make are magnified because all eyes are already on them.

This is really well said. I agree with this part 100%. The rest of your post was kind of hit and miss with me but I see your point. However, the quoted section resonated with my thoughts so well I felt I should say it.

[ISiddiqui]

Btw, the whole 'they should keep an offical clock' will never fly. As stated, it was tried in the MLS and was reversed a few years later and still referred to an unsuccessful gimmick. Time is kept by the ref on the field and that's just the way it is. Really, what exactly would an "official clock" bring to the table?

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

48 games played, my new rankings. All feel inspired to counter my list with your own list!

1. Argentina
2. Spain
3. Brazil
4. Italy
5. Germany
6. Portugal
7. Netherlands
8. Ivory Coast
9. England
10. Switzerland
11. France
12. Ghana
13. Czech Republic
14. Sweden
15. Mexico
16. Ukraine
17. Australia
18. Croatia
19. Ecuador
20. USA
21. Serbia & Montenegro
22. Paraguay
23. South Korea
24. Angola
25. Togo
27. Poland
28. Japan
28. Tunisia
29. Trinidad & Tobago
30. Iran
31. Costa Rica
32. Saudi Arabia

If you think, based on their performance in the WC, that the US is better than teams that, you know, scored their own goals and won games, you are smoking. For example, South Korea lower than the US? Crazy. We had FOUR shots on goal, all tournament long. Just four. That's not number 20 bad, that's like number 30 bad.

-Anxiety

[Celeval]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

If you think, based on their performance in the WC, that the US is better than teams that, you know, scored their own goals and won games, you are smoking. For example, South Korea lower than the US? Crazy. We had FOUR shots on goal, all tournament long. Just four. That's not number 20 bad, that's like number 30 bad.

Are you joking? Don't you know MIJB is a EuroSnob and can't stand the USA?

[ISiddiqui]

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by Celeval

Are you joking? Don't you know MIJB is a EuroSnob and can't stand the USA?

If he wasn't such a EuroSnob, US would be ranked 7th.

Bastard.

[cartman]

Now, the real fun is about to begin. No more ties from here on out. Two teams enter the pitch, only one leaves victorious.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Celeval

Are you joking? Don't you know MIJB is a EuroSnob and can't stand the USA?

[Crapshoot]

Sigh - its a Dave O Brien game. He just announced he was alongside "Hall oF Famer" Marcelo Balboa. What HOF is Balboa in - his high school's ?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

What HOF is Balboa in - his high school's ?

National Soccer Hall of Fame, inducted 2005.
One of the most-capped US players in history, one of the leading scorers in US National team history, 2-time U.S. Soccer Athlete of the Year.

I'm not really seeing a problem here, it's not as though there's a lot of people with better credentials for the honor.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Sigh - its a Dave O Brien game. He just announced he was alongside "Hall oF Famer" Marcelo Balboa. What HOF is Balboa in - his high school's ?

He's in the US Soccer Hall of Fame.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

National Soccer Hall of Fame, inducted 2005.
One of the most-capped US players in history, one of the leading scorers in US National team history, 2-time U.S. Soccer Athlete of the Year.

I'm not really seeing a problem here, it's not as though there's a lot of people with better credentials for the honor.

Point, Jon.

That being said, its just that no one else cares about the "National Soccer" hall - its a perspective of US football, not world football.

And nice run by Klose over there...

[cartman]

Goal fur Deutchland. 1-0 early on.

[cartman]

The hi-def broadcasts on ESPN and ESPN2 have really spoiled me. I don't get ABC HD, and the game just looks like crap.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Point, Jon.

That being said, its just that no one else cares about the "National Soccer" hall - its a perspective of US football, not world football.

And nice run by Klose over there...

And it's a US broadcast...

Step off your high horse for just a minute?

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by cartman

Goal fur Deutchland. 1-0 early on.

They're looking good - the amount of place Polodski got there was scary. The Swedish defense would do well to realize the game started.

[Crapshoot]

Klose's passing has been surreal so far. 2-0!

[cartman]

2-0 Germany. Sweden looks asleep out there.

[RPI-Fan]

Bad Swedish defense aside, Klose is looking amazing this WC.

[ISiddiqui]

Germany looks like it'll be celebrating today. Klose has been excellent, and Podolski there to take advantage... but Sweden can't just have 3 defenders follow Klose... psss, other players can score as well.

[Crapshoot]

Klose seems to be giving a lesson in how to play as a target man today. This one could be fun...

[RPI-Fan]

And now Sweden can know how it feels to get screwed ALMOST as bad as the US...

[Crapshoot]

So... who knew the Germans could play like this ?

And now its 10!

[Crapshoot]

So... who knew the Germans could play like this ?

And now its 10!

[ISiddiqui]

WTF? NEITHER of Lucic's yellows were worthy of a yellow card! That was utterly ridiculous!

[Crapshoot]

That was a pathetic second yellow - hell, both those yellows were awful. Not that it makes a difference in the game, but still.

[Coder]

As a Swede I'm obviously biased... while I think the Germans are dominating and rightfully leads this game, this referee is simply.. wow.. horrible?

Not only does he "miss" the obvious foul on Ljungberg, he then gives a second yellow card to Lucic in the next play for barely being in the way, and then has the audacity to SMIRK as he shows the red card!?!

What kind of referee is that? What about the treatment Ljungberg is given?

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by Coder

As a Swede I'm obviously biased... while I think the Germans are dominating and rightfully leads this game, this referee is simply.. wow.. horrible?

Not only does he "miss" the obvious foul on Ljungberg, he then gives a second yellow card to Lucic in the next play for barely being in the way, and then has the audacity to SMIRK as he shows the red card!?!

What kind of referee is that? What about the treatment Ljungberg is given?

At least you guys got to the 2nd round before you got screwed...

[cschex]

If it wasn't for Isakson, it would probably be 5-0 right now. I would be soo pissed at my outfield players if I were him.

[cartman]

Look for Germany to come out in a 8-1-1 in the 2nd half.

[MrBug708]

The Swedish side handled the yellow card well though. Instead of the whole team bitching and throwing a temper tantrum and the coach running around like someone killed his mom, they just dealt with it

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by cschex

If it wasn't for Isakson, it would probably be 5-0 right now.

Yeah - and this ain't a case where the red card is turning the game, or anything like that. Just a stunning performance from Germany.

[Critch]

I wish Klose would stop setting up Podolski and score for himself. I've got money on him being the top scorer.

I thought Lucic's second yellow card was deserved too, didnt seem to be much argument from the players either. He got skinned so he held back the player, thats a yellow.

[Coder]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Yeah - and this ain't a case where the red card is turning the game, or anything like that. Just a stunning performance from Germany.

Absolutely.. yet I want to think that if the ref wasn't giving the Germans the ability to climb all over Ljungberg, that we would have been better offensively.

Ref is a joke, that's for sure.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

The Swedish side handled the yellow card well though. Instead of the whole team bitching and throwing a temper tantrum and the coach running around like someone killed his mom, they just dealt with it

It's like they expected to get screwed over .

[Coder]

cheap penalty, guess he just plain sucks.. not just sucks for Swedes