Werewolf XXVIII: Mad Wizard and the Wolves (Game over Pg45)

[Barkeep49]

DOLA -- Though in fairness if I had been around at that lynch I'd have argued pretty forceably not to kill CW.

[Barkeep49]

DOUBLE DOLA -- But yeah Sack, I think that makes a lot of sense. A lot of sense indeed. And it almost came to work. This is why you need to play more. From both this game and the time I played with you, you are as good of a bad guy as anybody.

[hoopsguy]

I liked the mix of one-time powers available to the bad guy.

[SirFozzie]

BTW folks, please give Coffee and Sack HUGE props.

Having two players drop out (and one of em my chief baddy!) wasn't fun, and they stepped in admirably.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I liked the mix of one-time powers available to the bad guy.

*laughs* Thanks hoops, That was the most fun. I wanted to give the Wizard something he could do every night.

[Barkeep49]

Yeah major props indeed to CW and Sack. Stepping in is not easy and both did excellent jobs. Both are a credit to our WW community, I feel.

[Alan T]

Ok, here is my little game recap

Day 1 I obviously was not here for, and I don't know the reasoning behind Qwikshot's death. I caught up on day 2.

Day 2 was kind of a learning day, and trying very hard to stay entirely out of the two races involved. usually paranoia on the good guys side ends up making it all good guys killing the wrong people on that day unless they just get lucky.

when we went after blade, we decided to use a role to kill 2 people at one time. We picked Blade because he was shaping the game in a way that would affect our plan, and picked Lathum because he just felt wrong. Something about him seemed off this game. Lathum as Alpha could not be killed at night, only during the day so we ended up killing neither of them. However thanks to Blade being very informative for us the next day we learned who the alpha was. (Lathum)

It was important for us to try to build a lynch force against lathum, but the opportunity never came up for us without outing us entirely. Him playing as close to the vest as he did actually helped us since we knew almost everything about who he was and his role. At this point we had to build up a group of distrust , including one of our own, and Anxiety was a trooper for us. Some people get all upset when they are out of the game, but he never complained.

The next night was one of our mistakes. I pushed to go after Blade again, thinking it was needed so a circle of trust did not start forming. Anxiety really wanted to go after Cronin because of a gut feel, and Cronin going after him. In hindsight, we should have done Cronin. That would have really changed the game too. The good side about killing Blade was it made Tyrith a nice target the rest of the game.

The anxiety lynch was self-explanatory. Everyone was gunning for him anyways, so it was all about us trying to hide in the masses there, and for the most part that worked.

When Cronin made his reveal, that made things much tougher for us. Even though he did not have any bad guys yet, it really complicated things for us and formed a huge circle of trust. So we had to get Sack into that, while I stayed out. I did the best I could to try to be one of the last distrusted people around. We knew when Anxiety died what the voting rules were, we had hoped no one else would. but Cronin did after all

Hmm what else.. as Fozzie mentioned, we didnt have to crack the code, we had Saldana's role right in front of us for Sack to use.

At the end, the day I died, I only had a 33% chance of dying. I was hoping it would take out Schmidty or Saldana so Tyrith would be alive another day. If I had lived, my tie breaker role would have been proven true exactly how I had said. We hopefully would have killed someone at night, and then it would be 4-2 game and really close to our win at that point.

Its amazing how much difference one day makes.

I think Cronin played an excellent game, and hoops I think you made great choices on who to protect

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Schmidty: I don't think you give yourself enough credit.

Maybe so, but I don't feel good about how much I guessed this game. It made me feel dumb.

I'm certainly no Sherlock Holmes.

[Barkeep49]

Alan thanks for the recap. Great reading!

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

DOUBLE DOLA -- But yeah Sack, I think that makes a lot of sense. A lot of sense indeed. And it almost came to work. This is why you need to play more. From both this game and the time I played with you, you are as good of a bad guy as anybody.

Well, the funny thing was, I didn't have any intention of trying to insert myself with you and saldana.

My 'just a vanilla wolf' comment, or however I phrased it, was trying to defuse speculation that I might have a role. Any role. I figured that way I could play it as being afraid of drawing the wizard's attention.

You guys jumped on my phrasing and gave me the opportunity to switch tactics, and then second-guessed yourselves about a day before I really wanted you to start thinking.

In retrospect, I wish I'd have killed Schmidty instead of targeting cronin the first night, if only because maybe then it doesn't form that big ol' trust link to Lathum.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Maybe so, but I don't feel good about how much I guessed this game. It made me feel dumb.

I'm certainly no Sherlock Holmes.

We really didn't have a lot to go off of but guesses. You did alright in my mind.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

In retrospect, I wish I'd have killed Schmidty instead of targeting cronin the first night, if only because maybe then it doesn't form that big ol' trust link to Lathum.

Yeah I think without that, that there is no way I'd have trusted Lathum without Lathum playing far less close to the vest.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Yeah I think without that, that there is no way I'd have trusted Lathum without Lathum playing far less close to the vest.

If memory serves, and possibly Alan can back me up on this, I was pushing for a Schmidty kill, but he thought it was more important to take out cronin.

That was kind of a no-win. cronin could've sniffed him out, giving you guys an easy lynch, but Schmidty had his own tangled webs we had to deal with.

Ultimately didn't work out.

[Barkeep49]

Yeah but if you take out schmidty instead of cronin, I buy that Lathum isn't a hencemen but rather is the wizard.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

If memory serves, and possibly Alan can back me up on this, I was pushing for a Schmidty kill, but he thought it was more important to take out cronin.

I would have went for Cronin too, since he's a much better player.

Damn, I have no idea why I'm so down on myself, but I'm just being honest. I really think my play-style (which will likely go on in the future) is really weak.

Then again, I think I'll stick with it in the future.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Yeah but if you take out schmidty instead of cronin, I buy that Lathum isn't a hencemen but rather is the wizard.

Yep. The thing is, the whole game for us revolved around night-killing Schmidty and getting Lathum taken out.

Schmidty was my target for tonight if I survived the threat of exposure (I knew I couldn't be lynched).

Since y'all couldn't lynch me, once those two were out, it was gonna be game over no matter what. I wonder if Fozzie realized that - only Lathum had the power to kill me, and Schmidty would have gained that. Let's say that we had successfully used the double-kill on Schmidty and somebody else, and then gotten Lathum lynched by the end of day 2. Even with a 3-whatever disadvantage, you guys would have had an impossible task. It was potentially a game-unbalancer, but we couldn't work it to our advantage.

[Schmidty]

By the way Foz, your game was AWESOME. I was so worn out at the end, that I didn't even know we won, and I bitched about it. But don't worry, I bitch about EVERYTHING.

[Barkeep49]

Sack: Couldn't the good guys have won a minor victory?

[Tyrith]

I don't think you were ever going to be able to get the lynch pile on lathum, though, because for some reason me, cronin, and hoops seemed to pick up the alpha vibe as soon as he was so sure about blade. It didn't make a lot of sense, but there was some gut instinct there.

[hoopsguy]

Yeah, I expect I would have dropped a "risk/reward" post in defense of Lathum if it looked like he was in trouble.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

If memory serves, and possibly Alan can back me up on this, I was pushing for a Schmidty kill, but he thought it was more important to take out cronin.

That was kind of a no-win. cronin could've sniffed him out, giving you guys an easy lynch, but Schmidty had his own tangled webs we had to deal with.

Ultimately didn't work out.

Yeah, you wanted Schmidty then. I just had a strong feeling if Cronin was alive, he was going to sniff me and the numbers would have caught up to us. I might have been wrong there, I am still shocked Hoops guarded Schmidty the next night. I felt he was going to guard himself.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Sack: Couldn't the good guys have won a minor victory?

Barkeep - the only scenario open to them would have been to ignore the wizard entirely and just go for the henchmen.

At that point, once the wizard is revealed he automatically flees, but if all danger to him has been removed...I dunno.

That seems like it would've been a weird mechanic. I have to think that either Fozzie had a plan for that, or else it would've triggered automatic game over, if Schmidty and Lathum both bit it.

[hoopsguy]

I never planned on guarding myself, although I guess it could have happened if we got to the very end of the game. I just don't think that the bodyguard role is that important. I would prefer to try and identify, then protect, the most important players. Only way I would stay home is if I had a strong, strong impression that I was going to be the target.

Or this could all be positioning for next time I'm bodyguard ...

[Barkeep49]

Hoops I think you are severely underutilizing the BG role with that being even half true. The BG should do whatever it take to foil the bad guys. And that ability to foil the bad guys makes the BG himself an attractive target. I see no reason not to "stay home" a fair amount.

[hoopsguy]

I think it depends on the nature of the revealed roles in the game - I expected there would be a seer in the game (there always is) and that there would be an alpha because it was in my role.

A total of six of my protects were for the seer, the alpha, and the beta.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I think it depends on the nature of the revealed roles in the game - I expected there would be a seer in the game (there always is) and that there would be an alpha because it was in my role.

A total of six of my protects were for the seer, the alpha, and the beta.

This is a CLASSIC hoops post. Classic. Prove one point, and then at the very end equivicate something he didn't prove with what he did prove.

[hoopsguy]

I wonder why people never trust me

I hear what you are saying ... and I am not really trying to convince others to play it the way I did this game. But I was trying to give my viewpoint on how I played it this particular game.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I'm pretty pleased with this game. Except for tyrith, I don't really feel like I was ever too off base in what I believed.

Ahem.

[path12]

Dola, thanks for the game, Foz. Lots of fun. I still think the move to tie up hoops was the right play for learning the most. Too bad it put a bullseye on me.

[Coffee Warlord]

Great game, I'll post a little bit more later, but I'm drunk and utterly exhausted.

So...g'night.

[hoopsguy]

Path, I wish you had been patient enough to let me actually guard someone Seriously, from where you were sitting at the time, did you think that both Schmidty and Blade (other vote switchers) were playing for the same team as you? I'm sure it was very frustrating the next day being penalized for doing what you thought was the right move at the time.

[Alan T]

I was punished for what I thought were the right moves!

[path12]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Path, I wish you had been patient enough to let me actually guard someone Seriously, from where you were sitting at the time, did you think that both Schmidty and Blade (other vote switchers) were playing for the same team as you? I'm sure it was very frustrating the next day being penalized for doing what you thought was the right move at the time.

I was feeling pretty confident about Blade being good, was not sure at all about Schmidty. But one of the main things was that I was getting a weird vibe from AE and that's really why I decided to tie it up to see which way he would go....

I wasn't sure about you early at all. You really reminded me of how you played in Star Wars and the thing, so it also wasn't a hard decision to tie you up. Of course, following along afterwards it was pretty clear I was wrong, but I was already dead by then.

[Abe Sargent]

Just want to point out that I was pushing for cronin to die early with our Night kill and the others wanted a different kill. Had they listened to me, the game would have been much easier.

Of course, that's the beauty of hindsight. It's always perfect


-Anxiety

[st.cronin]

I had a great time with this game, Fozzie. I think it was very well done.

[saldana]

good game everyone, see you in egypt.

[Lathum]

Fozzie, thanks for running a great a game. A few things about my role.

I felt it was important to play it close to the vest for a few reasons.

1. I knew I couldn't be killed at night so I needed to make sure I never got to involved in lynch talks, if I had outed myself to soon it would have been easy for a henchman to counter my story and get in a one on one runoff with me.

2. I needed schmidty to out himself first before anyone would really trust my story.

3. I knew I was the only one who could kill the wizard so I was basicly playing a waiting game. The only way I could kill him was by challenging him do a duel through night action.

This is where I am confused and maybe foz can answer this for me. I was under the impression that I could only challenge the wizard if I KNEW who he was, but once we uncovered him through a lynch he fled so I never had the chance to challenge him?

[hoopsguy]

Lathum, the way I understand it you have to submit your action. The results of it will determine what kind of victory the wolves are able to achieve.

Hope it is kosher to tell you to get your action in at this point

[Lathum]

WHAT?, how doea that make any sense.

Please advise fozzie?

[hoopsguy]

Lathum, check out posts #2219 - 2221, all by SirFozzie:

I will reveal the situation depending on the night actions.

The Wolves have won.

The only question is what type of win they have.

Dola: They can have a light, medium or complete victory, depending on what happens.

Lathum: Your decision ASAP please.

[Lathum]

OK, I didn't realize I was still susposed to submit a night action, I was out last night and very drunk and didn't really read the thread. I just saw the game was over and didn't really go any further. My night action is submitted.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Lathum

This is where I am confused and maybe foz can answer this for me. I was under the impression that I could only challenge the wizard if I KNEW who he was, but once we uncovered him through a lynch he fled so I never had the chance to challenge him?

The flee is only automatic if both henchmen are already dead - which they are.

So I don't know what's going to happen.

[stevew]

Interesting.

[stevew]

Working like I do would screw up any chance I would have to play, and it messes up following the game as well.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Family business sorry.

The wizard waves his hands, and Tyrith sighs as he sees the hate in all your eyes.. "I guess I'll be joining you now, brother" he sighs, as you tear him apart.

Your eyes travel back and forth from the wizard to Tyrith..

Just got back in town, and wanted to say im sorry i couldnt vouch for ya before i died my brother. I knew you were not the traitor, and said so countless times before i died the traitor was not my brother. Either way, good game to everyone!

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

And none of the wolves voted for either Blade or Tyrith on Day 1 - the two leading vote getters. Every one of my theories early in the game sucked.

As brothers you can see how terrible our outlook seemed on day one when people started rallying against both of us. We literally were looking for any out on anyone, and qwikshot just happened to take the heat. But people kept asking me to move to tyrith and now you know why i refused.

I still find it stunning ardent dropped as the chief baddy..that throws my whole leavers are good guys theory out the window.

[Barkeep49]

Ardent's drop was the exception to the rule though shows just how out of it he had to be.

[hoopsguy]

SirFozzie, just wondering if/when results from the final night are going to be posted ... I'm interested in seeing what the mechanic is for resolving the final showdown between the alpha and the wizard.

[SirFozzie]

if/when I can, I;ll provide a coda. the duel was to be a story driven multiple choice section that would be done via PM's and the results be posted to the thread (It would replace a lynch action)

[Lathum]

I am curious if I am still alive