The Trump Presidency – 2016

[panerd]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

That argument makes no sense. Why have government at all if a bad person can one day be in charge of a part of it?

Either she has a lot of power (which I don't think she does) or she doesn't. If she doesn't it's a lot to do about nothing. If she does than they created this monster themselves.

But in theory I actually agree with what you probably don't think I would agree with. Large unchecked government executive power is a really bad thing because of exactly what happens when a bad person/unqualified person is in charge.

[RainMaker]

Donald J. Trump on Twitter: "I don't know Putin, have no deals in Russia, and the haters are going crazy - yet Obama can make a deal with Iran, #1 in terror, no problem!"

AJ Joshi on Twitter: "Trump talks about his relationship with Putin back in 2013 🤔 #Confused #1in https://t.co/nDdzldE1gf"

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Neuqua

Usually I can find some people on both sides of the aisle but since her name was originally brought up I have not found a single person happy with DeVos.

does lukewarm about her count?

She may/may not be _the_ right person for the job, but she's definitely the right _sort_ of person for it.

Anyone that upsets the education cabal this much certainly gets the benefit of a doubt with me.

[larrymcg421]

Jill Stein is an idiot. Just because she's a "progressive" idiot doesn't make it okay.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by panerd

1979: Let's create an agency to help oversee federal education policy. Typical big government supporter thought... What harm can it possibly do? More government is great!

2003: Who could have foresaw a massive waste of a program like NCLB? Oh well big government still is great! At least we have homeland security and other programs that won't ever grow past their intended purposes.

2017: OMG! Homeschool your children! You mean these government programs always grow into giant bureaucracies and can sometimes fall into the wrong hands and actually have unforeseen consequences? You don't say?

NCLB was a Bush introduction, by the way, and ushered in the testing culture that's wreaked such havoc on our pre-university educational system (the effects of which I see every.fucking.day. in so many bad ways).

There's problems with the system, obviously. But DeVos will leave the system a complete smoldering ruin. Those of you teaching in public schools right now think it's bad? The corporatization of the higher education system that created a serf class of faculty and a wealthy class of administrators is coming for you. That means poverty, job insecurity, lack of support, etc. But wait, there's more! There's going to be a flight of students from public education as well - those who can afford it will go private. Those who can't, will try their damnedest to homeschool.

Oh, and control to the states? Say hello to even greater disparity in educational quality. The Mississippis, Louisianas, and the public system of Las Vegases of the world (among others) will be even worse, and you'd better fucking pray that you're lucky enough to be born in a state that still has the last vestiges of a respectable education system. If you don't and your parents can't afford private school, or lack the ability to homeschool you, you're fucked for life - you'll be born poor or working class, you'll live poor or working class, and you'll die poor or working class.

Got to hand it to Trump and Co. - they're doing an excellent job of recreating feudalism - much of the population is going to end up shackled in poverty or working poor, with little way out. A modest group of middle class, and the top dominated by the wealthy, who will control everything.

The United States is no longer a meritocracy, if ever it was one. It's a moneytocracy.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by Izulde

NCLB was a Bush introduction, by the way, and ushered in the testing culture that's wreaked such havoc on our pre-university educational system (the effects of which I see every.fucking.day. in so many bad ways).

There's problems with the system, obviously. But DeVos will leave the system a complete smoldering ruin. Those of you teaching in public schools right now think it's bad? The corporatization of the higher education system that created a serf class of faculty and a wealthy class of administrators is coming for you. That means poverty, job insecurity, lack of support, etc. But wait, there's more! There's going to be a flight of students from public education as well - those who can afford it will go private. Those who can't, will try their damnedest to homeschool.

Oh, and control to the states? Say hello to even greater disparity in educational quality. The Mississippis, Louisianas, and the public system of Las Vegases of the world (among others) will be even worse, and you'd better fucking pray that you're lucky enough to be born in a state that still has the last vestiges of a respectable education system. If you don't and your parents can't afford private school, or lack the ability to homeschool you, you're fucked for life - you'll be born poor or working class, you'll live poor or working class, and you'll die poor or working class.

Got to hand it to Trump and Co. - they're doing an excellent job of recreating feudalism - much of the population is going to end up shackled in poverty or working poor, with little way out. A modest group of middle class, and the top dominated by the wealthy, who will control everything.

The United States is no longer a meritocracy, if ever it was one. It's a moneytocracy.

This. Every single word of this.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Jill Stein is an idiot. Just because she's a "progressive" idiot doesn't make it okay.

She's running a scam in conjunction with Putin. Everything is about siphoning off Dem voters and turning them into cash.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Izulde

NCLB was a Bush introduction, by the way, and ushered in the testing culture that's wreaked such havoc on our pre-university educational system (the effects of which I see every.fucking.day. in so many bad ways).

There's problems with the system, obviously. But DeVos will leave the system a complete smoldering ruin. Those of you teaching in public schools right now think it's bad? The corporatization of the higher education system that created a serf class of faculty and a wealthy class of administrators is coming for you. That means poverty, job insecurity, lack of support, etc. But wait, there's more! There's going to be a flight of students from public education as well - those who can afford it will go private. Those who can't, will try their damnedest to homeschool.

Oh, and control to the states? Say hello to even greater disparity in educational quality. The Mississippis, Louisianas, and the public system of Las Vegases of the world (among others) will be even worse, and you'd better fucking pray that you're lucky enough to be born in a state that still has the last vestiges of a respectable education system. If you don't and your parents can't afford private school, or lack the ability to homeschool you, you're fucked for life - you'll be born poor or working class, you'll live poor or working class, and you'll die poor or working class.

Got to hand it to Trump and Co. - they're doing an excellent job of recreating feudalism - much of the population is going to end up shackled in poverty or working poor, with little way out. A modest group of middle class, and the top dominated by the wealthy, who will control everything.

The United States is no longer a meritocracy, if ever it was one. It's a moneytocracy.

In particular rural schools will get hosed if charters/vouchers take off nationwide. I think about where I went to school in Southern Ohio, and there's no profit to be had there. There's one school for the community, a community with a serious drug and poverty problem. No charter school is going to be interested in that district, and there are thousands of those districts around the country.

What will happen is that the charter/voucher folks will siphon off money from the public system, but city public schools are still going to get their share. So rural schools get no possible benefits from charters, but do end up with less funding.

I'm ambivalent at best on charters, but even if they achieve what their supporters say they can achieve, that still leaves thousands of school districts with nothing but a funding cut and a cheap hat.

[larrymcg421]

So the GOP just silenced Elizabeth Warren on the Senate floor for reading the letter Coretta Scott King wrote in 1986 opposing Sessions' nomination to a federal judgeship.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Izulde

NCLB was a Bush introduction, by the way, and ushered in the testing culture that's wreaked such havoc on our pre-university educational system (the effects of which I see every.fucking.day. in so many bad ways).

There's problems with the system, obviously. But DeVos will leave the system a complete smoldering ruin. Those of you teaching in public schools right now think it's bad? The corporatization of the higher education system that created a serf class of faculty and a wealthy class of administrators is coming for you. That means poverty, job insecurity, lack of support, etc. But wait, there's more! There's going to be a flight of students from public education as well - those who can afford it will go private. Those who can't, will try their damnedest to homeschool.

Oh, and control to the states? Say hello to even greater disparity in educational quality. The Mississippis, Louisianas, and the public system of Las Vegases of the world (among others) will be even worse, and you'd better fucking pray that you're lucky enough to be born in a state that still has the last vestiges of a respectable education system. If you don't and your parents can't afford private school, or lack the ability to homeschool you, you're fucked for life - you'll be born poor or working class, you'll live poor or working class, and you'll die poor or working class.

Got to hand it to Trump and Co. - they're doing an excellent job of recreating feudalism - much of the population is going to end up shackled in poverty or working poor, with little way out. A modest group of middle class, and the top dominated by the wealthy, who will control everything.

The United States is no longer a meritocracy, if ever it was one. It's a moneytocracy.

Welcome to the Third World educational system. Please have a seat.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

So the GOP just silenced Elizabeth Warren on the Senate floor for reading the letter Coretta Scott King wrote in 1986 opposing Sessions' nomination to a federal judgeship.

and then she recorded herself reading it and posted it on facebook.

and then the letter itself was posted on facebook by someone else.

and then one of her colleague's read the letter to congress anyway.

and mitch continues to look like a bully all the time.

[cartman]

Trump is telling the courts that "even a bad high school student" would reinstate his travel ban. Good to know that is what he feels is the bar to become a federal judge.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

and mitch continues to look like a bully all the time.

Which energizes the right wing base as much as Warren energizes the left.

[cuervo72]

Yemen Withdraws Permission for U.S. Antiterror Ground Missions

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by cartman

Trump is telling the courts that "even a bad high school student" would reinstate his travel ban. Good to know that is what he feels is the bar to become a federal judge.

Replace "even" with "only" and he might be on to something.

[albionmoonlight]

My predictions:

Dems will get some seats in the mid-terms, but not enough to overcome the unfavorable map and GOP structural advantages. GOP continues to hold both houses of Congress after 2018.

Trump will morph into celebrity President in chief. Pence and a few others will take over the actual day to day running of the government. Trump will keep the fun parts of the job. And he keeps saying and doing things to stay newsworthy.

Once serious folks get a sense that Trump's finger is not hovering over the button, they relax a bit. The Women's March type protests continue, but they do not make inroads into Trump's base, and the establishment GOP continues to support Trump and push legislation.

Trump's popularity continues to hover in that 40-50% range.

The 2020 election is a toss up with a slight lean GOP based on structural advantages in the EC.

[Atocep]

I would actually be more comfortable with Trump running things than Bannon.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cartman

Good to know that is what he feels is the bar to become a federal judge.

Based on things I've seen over time, I'd say he's probably expecting too much of them.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Trump's popularity continues to hover in that 40-50% range.

I don't think it will stay in this range for four years. If the economy booms or there's a major external event he could jump into the fifties, but if things stay relatively quiet and status quo I'd expect him to slowly drop until he's in the thirties.

[RainMaker]

The economy is pretty good despite what we've been told. And I'm not sure he's going to be much help since he doesn't know whether a strong or weak dollar is good for the economy. Basic economic stuff.

Donald Trump is unsure if strong or weak US dollar is best for the economy | The Independent

[BYU 14]

Did I miss an Islamic terror attack in Atlanta?

Or are we revising who committed the 1996 bombings? Spicer is a piece of work.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

The economy is pretty good despite what we've been told.

I said before the election that I think it's fairly likely that we'll be in a recession at some point over the next four years as we've had a pretty long period of expansion.

Trump also has a problem because research shows people respond less to absolute conditions and more to changes in condition. Keeping the economy as is won't sway a lot of voters. He needs to show obvious improvement, and that's tough, because you're right, things are pretty good now.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Did I miss an Islamic terror attack in Atlanta?

Or are we revising who committed the 1996 bombings? Spicer is a piece of work.

Eh... Christian fundamentalist, Islamic fundamentalist, what's the difference? Oh wait...

[CrimsonFox]

Disastrous football game...

[Groundhog]

...and now slamming a company on Twitter re: them dropping his daughter's clothing line, 21 mins into his daily intelligence briefing, causing their stock to take a hit. No conflict of interest there.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Izulde

The corporatization of the higher education system that created a serf class of faculty and a wealthy class of administrators is coming for you.

If your philosophy was implemented in Dept. of Education starting tomorrow, what are the top three things that you think it should be doing at a national level?

I get the objections to Devos, though to the points others have raised I know plenty of people supporting her so I guess we just know different kinds of people. I'm not looking for 'run the other way from Devos' though. I just haven't heard much on this in recent years. What I have heard, maybe from reading the wrong places, is more funding(nobody says from where), vouchers are bad, mandatory testing is bad, etc. I'm interested in practical solutions here. How do we improve the performance of public education, from your point of view?

[JPhillips]

We don't have a schools problem, we have a poverty problem. Middle class and wealthy school districts do well compared to other nations. I have no idea how to fix poverty, but that's what we need to work on. Too much education policy is about schools that are already successful.

Of course, lead remediation would help a lot of poor people academically and socially, so I'd start there.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

...and now slamming a company on Twitter re: them dropping his daughter's clothing line, 21 mins into his daily intelligence briefing, causing their stock to take a hit. No conflict of interest there.

It took a hit, but bounced right back up and is back at the same level the stock was at closing, up 4%. My guess is an automated trading system got the PRESIDENT SAID BAD input and did a sell off, and then other automated systems pounced on that to drive it back up.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

vouchers are bad, mandatory testing is bad, etc.

And right there is why I'm hopeful for DeVos.

If she's upsetting people who say those two things then that's a feather in her cap right off the bat.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And right there is why I'm hopeful for DeVos.

If she's upsetting people who say those two things then that's a feather in her cap right off the bat.

So the decades of evidence showing that testing has little to no predictive ability for either college or career success is wrong?

[Atocep]

It goes without saying that heavy focus on testing leads to teachers teaching the test. It becomes their only option because that's what they're rated on.

Kids taught that way aren't prepared for college or the real world.

[MrBug708]

Vouchers are good for those who can afford private school

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

So the decades of evidence showing that testing has little to no predictive ability for either college or career success is wrong?

It illuminates what you do/don't know about subject X. Which, you know, IS rather important ... contrary to the "I'm okay, you're okay" bullshit that swirls around it.

I'd like to see every single anti-testing advocate in the education cabal barred from ever drawing a taxpayer check again frankly.

It's not testing they hate, it's accountability.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Atocep

It goes without saying that heavy focus on testing leads to teachers teaching the test. It becomes their only option because that's what they're rated on.

If the test covers the material that the course is responsible* for then where exactly in the supposed problem with "teaching the test"?

*work with that supposition m'kay, I acknowledge that the tests are not always aligned with the course adequately. But that's a coordination issue, not a methodology issue

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

...and now slamming a company on Twitter re: them dropping his daughter's clothing line, 21 mins into his daily intelligence briefing, causing their stock to take a hit. No conflict of interest there.

Ironic that the guy who campaigned on helping American businesses spends half his time trying to hurt American businesses on Twitter. Sorry no one wanted to buy your kid's shitty clothing line.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

It illuminates what you do/don't know about subject X.

It literally does not do that at all. The typical multiple choice test is the cheapest, and least effective, means of assessment.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

If the test covers the material that the course is responsible* for then where exactly in the supposed problem with "teaching the test"?

*work with that supposition m'kay, I acknowledge that the tests are not always aligned with the course adequately. But that's a coordination issue, not a methodology issue

I went through a language school twice that moves at a ridiculous pace (fluency expected in 1 year). The first time I went through we were taught the language but there was heavy focus on testing. We had quizzes every other day and a major test every 1-2 weeks. Fail 2 in a row and you're out of the course. Tons of pressure on the instructors because they were rated on student. performance.

Our class ended up doing below expectations and I know a couple of instructors lost their jobs.

The 2nd time I went through for a different language we had the same pace and heavy focus on testing. Most of the teaching was geared directly toward the tests we were given and the last 3 months were practice finals over and over. Nearly everything we did the last quarter was geared toward that final.

In the end our class did well and I didn't feel I learned anywhere near as much as I did with the first course. It took a 1 month follow on class to get me where I felt I needed to be.

My personal experience and speaking with teachers in this area tells me that in a perfect world heavy testing focus would be great. In reality, it leads to huge gaps in learning because it's impossible to test knowledge as widely as needed and with teacher's jobs relying on test scores they're naturally going to find the most efficient way to get their students their scores.

I understand the other options aren't perfect either, but experiencing a heavy testing curriculum myself I'd rather put the learning on myself and the teacher and not the test writera.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

If the test covers the material that the course is responsible* for then where exactly in the supposed problem with "teaching the test"?

*work with that supposition m'kay, I acknowledge that the tests are not always aligned with the course adequately. But that's a coordination issue, not a methodology issue

Tests don't show what you can do, at all. They're nothing more than a way to regurgitate information one time and then move on. There's ample evidence showing the same student can take the same test several days in a row and their scores will follow no pattern. Test scores can be affected by sleep issues, stress at home, illness that isn't even felt yet, and a myriad of other things that aren't remotely related to the subject matter the test is supposedly assessing.

The SAT and other standardized tests have been studied for decades. They have been shown, over and over again, to have no predictive ability related to college or career success. The only reason they're still in use, and are actually increasing, is because of the massive testing and test preparation industry in the US (which grossed more than both every movie in 2014 and the NFL in 2014). Most of the people who think the tests have value are either making money off of them or have never delved into the research about them.

[Brian Swartz]

I should say that this is one issue that I totally agree with JIMGA on, though I do acknowledge it's possible I'm just not familiar enough with the counterarguments. I mean, what's the purpose of education if not to master the material(whatever subject it is?) What better way aside from testing is there to determine whether or not a student has, in fact, mastered said material?

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

So the decades of evidence showing that testing has little to no predictive ability for either college or career success is wrong?

Honest question here: what does this decades of evidence you mention indicate does have predictive ability for success? What things can primary education reasonably achieve if actual knowledge and mastery of material is not among them? It seems your statement here leads to either of two admittedly absurd conclusions:

1. Testing can't tell us anything about what a student knows.

2. You don't need to know anything to succeed in college/career.

Which of these(or both) is reflected in the evidence you cite?

Edit:

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

Tests don't show what you can do, at all. They're nothing more than a way to regurgitate information one time and then move on.

This leads me to a couple more questions.

** Is there a better way to determine and measure student knowledge?

** How is the home life/illness/stress situation anything different than what a student will face when they become an adult? Is not job performance(whatever said job is) also impacted by those things?

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

If the test covers the material that the course is responsible* for then where exactly in the supposed problem with "teaching the test"?

*work with that supposition m'kay, I acknowledge that the tests are not always aligned with the course adequately. But that's a coordination issue, not a methodology issue

Jon, you are over romanticizing the education system. And I get it. I used to side with you. I have countless times credited our free public education system for opening the doors for me from a foster kid, projects reject to a successful business owner. And no doubt without the education I received Id have never made that transition.

But the abomination that is current school melt down is stupid. Its not what you and I went through, and certainly not even akin to the education your son got.

My daughter is in the 8th grade. Public school. She is smart. Very Smart. Duke TIP program etc. Never made a B on an interim or report card, can tell you off hand the number of tests or quizes she has made a B on in her life. You get the picture. Lots of us here have these kids. They are teaching the kids for the upcoming progress test. A special district teacher is going around prepping the kids. The take home sheet has an error on it. Its not debateable it is an error.
The problem is 4x=12. X = ?
Choices are 1,2,4,8
My daughter wrote in 3.
She got it wrong on her sheet and came home pissed. After reviewing I couldn't blame her. I went to the school and met with the guidance counselor who doubles as the G&T (whatever we call that today) program admin. I nearly lost my shit. While we know the answer is wrong it is a known issue with the state test. The teacher explained to the students in class that it is an error and they need to select 4 in order for it to be counted right on next weeks test. Kylie lost points on this assignment because she didnt follow direction and select 4. Even though her answer is mathematically correct, it is incorrect because of the classroom instruction.

This and similar situations are playing out daily around the country in our school system. The test is what is important not the process, not the education, not even the truth or accuracy just the test.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

It literally does not do that at all.

LOL. Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

Most of the people who think the tests have value are either making money off of them or have never delved into the research about them.

And most people who don't see the inherent value are too out of touch with reality for their opinion to have any relevance at all.

So you keep fucking that chicken, while some of us keep doing what we can to finally bring some sanity back into the education system.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Honest question here: what does this decades of evidence you mention indicate does have predictive ability for success? What things can primary education reasonably achieve if actual knowledge and mastery of material is not among them? It seems your statement here leads to either of two admittedly absurd conclusions:

1. Testing can't tell us anything about what a student knows.

2. You don't need to know anything to succeed in college/career.

Which of these(or both) is reflected in the evidence you cite?

GPA is several times more predictive of success than SAT/ACT score.

Tests do not test actionable knowledge. They test regurgitation. The most successful education systems in the world, like Finland and Singapore, do almost no testing.

Testing does not show any mastery at all. Mastery requires putting something into action and tests, by their very nature, cannot do that (at least at a massively standardized scale). Projects, especially real world projects, show actual mastery.

There are multiple ways to assess mastery of subject matter, but standardized tests are the least effective way to determine what someone actually knows. If you want to really dig into it, some great book length treatments exist and I would suggest you start with Sir Ken Robinson's Creative Schools: The Grassroots Revolution That's Transforming Education.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

LOL. Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.

I've got an M.Ed. and will likely finish my PhD in the next 18 months. I'll take objective facts garnered from thousands of pages of reading academic studies over your opinion on anything.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

This and similar situations are playing out daily around the country in our school system. The test is what is important not the process, not the education, not even the truth or accuracy just the test.

The error, however, is a flaw with the test (as I cited earlier).
It's not a flaw inherent to "teaching the test" as an approach.

As a known issue, the common sense solution is to invalidate the question, don't score it, move on.

If that isn't happening then THAT is something that hopefully everyone should be able to agree needs to be remedied.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by CUTiger

The problem is 4x=12. X = ?
Choices are 1,2,4,8
My daughter wrote in 3.

That's definitely ridiculous, and I'd be mad too. However, I'd see the problem here as being the test itself, and the failures involved in this error not being spotted, not testing per se. Similarly, regarding the comment on multiple-choice: I agree that those aren't effective. Solution: don't use multiple-choice tests.

On the above, a simple "4x = 12. Solve for x" would seem to be a lot more useful. If these are the kinds of tests and questions that are being produced, then somewhere along the line the education beauracracy is stunningly incompetent. That's where I'd like to see the energy focused, assuming this is an accurate reflection of the situation.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

GPA is several times more predictive of success than SAT/ACT score.

This statement really confuses me. Isn't GPA largely the sum of a greater number of tests? Virtually every class I was in, and from talking to people who are students now from time to time I get the impression the situation was the same, your grade was mostly the result of testing well. This sounds like more of a sample size issue than a problem with testing itself.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

** How is the home life/illness/stress situation anything different than what a student will face when they become an adult? Is not job performance(whatever said job is) also impacted by those things?

Is there a job where everything hinges on one test, or one set of tests, every year that require you to do nothing but answer those test questions correctly?

This all boils down to the purpose of the educational system. If it is to prepare people for the real world, then what we have is woefully inadequate and testing is the $13 billion cherry on top. There aren't many real world situations where you are grouped together by age, told to move around to a separate instructor for a separate topic every 55 minutes or so, and then tested to see how much of that unrelated information you can remember before taking a break for 2-3 months and doing it again with all new subjects where essentially none of the previous information is covered again. The system is built incorrectly from the ground up.

[Marc Vaughan]

The other flaw with 'testing' being almighty is that it doesn't grade a teachers performance fairly - if a teacher lucks out with a class full of bright, motivated kids then they'll probably do alright with mediocre teaching ... however a fantastic teacher with a set of poorer students might only get 'average' grades and not be recognized because they managed to get the best possible out of their students.

The human element in teaching is hugely important - I put down my career to some teachers in High School and Sixth Form in England who didn't give up on me despite my lack of interest and general demeanor.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

This statement really confuses me. Isn't GPA largely the sum of a greater number of tests? Virtually every class I was in, and from talking to people who are students now from time to time I get the impression the situation was the same, your grade was mostly the result of testing well. This sounds like more of a sample size issue than a problem with testing itself.

Not necessarily. Good teachers assess regularly, but not necessarily with tests. Also, the percentage of the grade should be heavily weighted towards growth in the subject and production of artifacts (like presentations, reports, physical items, etc that are relevant to the subject at hand).

We could also start with idea of classes themselves. Finland is one of the elite systems in the world and they're eliminating subjects to do a more holistic approach to learning. They're moving to doing things like studying the EU in which every aspect of it, history, economy, etc, is all woven into a single, comprehensive unit.