2020 Democratic Primaries/General Election Thread

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Curious who you think has a better shot at beating Trump?

Yeah no shit. Sanders vs Trump or Warren vs Trump is a complete joke. Maybe Bloomberg might have a shot but too early to tell on that.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

My favorite R supporters have said that the DNC are paying off all the other candidates in an effort to pave the way for Biden and to screw Sanders again, and how unfair it is and how awful they all are.

Backroom deals happen in all parties. I'm sure Pete was promised something. The elites in the party had a meltdown after Nevada.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Pete's problem is that there's no advancement potential in Indiana. He won't be a rep or senator or governor. His only options are moving or landing a cabinet position.

Now if all he wants is to be rich, lots of doors have opened for him to walk through.

Pete's fairly moderate and no reason he couldn't compete for a Senate or Governor seat.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I think we might now know who the first gay President is going to be. I saw a stat that says if Pete runs in 2060, he will still be younger than Bernie is now. He has plenty of time. Now, he needs to work really hard at endearing himself to POC. He needs to find something that will not come off as pandering, but would be very popular among the marginalized and often disenfranchised. Maybe work with Abrams in her voting projects

He's going to need to get some governmental experience though. Maybe he can be in the Cabinet of a Democrat, but aside from that just working on projects won't get him the votes he needs.

Originally Posted by tarcone

So Biden vs. Trump. Jeez I wonder who wins?

Biden. Easily. I thought from the beginning that the best person to beat Trump was Biden (though with a lower popular vote win than Clinton), but I far preferred Warren's policies.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Pete's fairly moderate and no reason he couldn't compete for a Senate or Governor seat.

He can try, but the last time he ran for a statewide office he was destroyed. Indiana isn't that great to Democrats. Now he can move to a different state and run for Senator there.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Biden. Easily. I thought from the beginning that the best person to beat Trump was Biden (though with a lower popular vote win than Clinton), but I far preferred Warren's policies.

Biden will likely get obliterated in debates by Trump, and judging from how the primaries are turning out he's going to lose a lot of support, much like Hilary did, because he's not Bernie/Warren/Etc. Bernie will scream collusion, conspiracy, and his supporters will not vote in the general.

I agree, Biden is probably still the strongest opponent, but no way is it "Easily".

[Edward64]

If economy and markets are doing strong, I'm going to give the edge to Trump.

I am worried about Sanders' supporters turning out if Biden wins though. I also like to think Biden has improved with each debate and he'll be ready by the time it gets to Trump.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Biden will likely get obliterated in debates by Trump, and judging from how the primaries are turning out he's going to lose a lot of support, much like Hilary did, because he's not Bernie/Warren/Etc. Bernie will scream collusion, conspiracy, and his supporters will not vote in the general.

Did you watch the debates 4 years ago? Trump was utterly destroyed but it didn't make a lick of difference. Biden vs Trump will likely be even, if Trump decides to debate.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Did you watch the debates 4 years ago? Trump was utterly destroyed but it didn't make a lick of difference. Biden vs Trump will likely be even, if Trump decides to debate.

Did you watch the debates this cycle? Biden can't complete a coherent sentence. Imagine him trying to respond fluently to Trump's endless tirades.

edit: Trump's not much better at completing coherent thoughts, but the second a debate degenerates into a mud slinging insult match (which I predict will take all of 10 seconds), Trump wins.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Did you watch the debates this cycle? Biden can't complete a coherent sentence. Imagine him trying to respond fluently to Trump's endless tirades.

edit: Trump's not much better at completing coherent thoughts, but the second a debate degenerates into a mud slinging insult match (which I predict will take all of 10 seconds), Trump wins.

Biden's best debate was the one before South Carolina. He probably won that debate (or co-won it with Sanders). He's better than Trump was without a doubt.

[JPhillips]

And right on cue, the GOP is back to being concerned about Hunter Biden.

[Arles]

Debate "ability" isn't that important in the presidential race. Debate "likeability", on the other hand, is vital. Very few (ie, Obama) have both. I think Trump also benefited from the mantra that all the media was against him. So, even if he went out, pulled his pants down and then took a big dump on the stage - the next day people would be like "the media is just out to get him, Trump is our guy!".

If Biden can come off as likeable, i think he can pick off a chunk of moderates who would be holding their nose and voting for Trump vs Bernie. Whether that is better than the support Bernie would be getting from his zealots - who knows. I will contend that a big piece of Bernie's support is young people - who are the most flaky voting block available. I would say that Biden would have the edge, but Bernie's rally's will always be better!

[Edward64]

Yeah, thanks Amy. Every little bit helps

[Lathum]

Klobuchar is out

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Yeah, thanks Amy. Every little bit helps

Makes future debates a lot easier to watch also with just 4 or possibly less candidates.

[NobodyHere]

So is there anyone left besides Biden Bloomberg and Bernie, and Warren?

[molson]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

So is there anyone left besides Biden Bloomberg and Bernie, and Warren?

Just Gabbard, but she won't qualify for any debates.

[ISiddiqui]

Klobuchar is endorsing Biden later today:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/202...biden-n1147191

[Kodos]

So welcome to four more years with a president who is in their 70s.

[albionmoonlight]

There's got to be a Poly Sci dissertation on why the GOP candidates did not fall in line to drop out and endorse a not-Trump but the Dem candidates fell in line to drop out and endorse a not-Bernie.

[Scarecrow]

So are we going to end up with:

Sanders/Warrren vs Biden/Klobuchar come convention time?

[SirFozzie]

Unlikely. Sanders and Warren have been sniping for a WHILE.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

There's got to be a Poly Sci dissertation on why the GOP candidates did not fall in line to drop out and endorse a not-Trump but the Dem candidates fell in line to drop out and endorse a not-Bernie.

Rare case of the Dems just plain doing better politickin' than the Repubs.

[Ben E Lou]

Counterpoint to myself: will the consolidation piss off enough Bernie bros so badly that they throw a temper tantrum in November and refuse to vote for Biden, throwing the election to teh Donald?

[Kodos]

If so, they'll get the president that they deserve.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Bernie bros

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

temper tantrum

Yes.

But who knows if that will outweigh minorities who won't come out for Bernie, or those turned off by revolution talk when the economy's OK, and who will either stay home or vote for what is to them, the safer and known course instead of the guy who thought it was awesome when the Cuban middle class had to start over with nothing in the U.S. because a few rich people were taken down too.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by molson

Yes.

But who knows if that will outweigh minorities who won't come out for Bernie, or those turned off by revolution talk when the economy's OK, and who will either stay home or vote for what is to them, the safer and known course instead of the guy who thought it was awesome when the Cuban middle class had to start over with nothing in the U.S. because a few rich people were taken down too.

lol, praising some literacy program in a tiny regional country where much of the population was enslaved by the previous regime is worse than decades of supporting war criminals

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

There's got to be a Poly Sci dissertation on why the GOP candidates did not fall in line to drop out and endorse a not-Trump but the Dem candidates fell in line to drop out and endorse a not-Bernie.

Money.

The Republican Party is run by rich people and at the end of the day, life would be good if Cruz, Trump, Jeb or whoever won the Presidency.

The Democratic Party is run by rich people and at the end of the day, their income streams and donor base dry up with Bernie in charge.

Masks come off quick when decisions will actually impact your life.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Kodos

If so, they'll get the president that they deserve.

No, we all will.

[ISiddiqui]

So the speculation is that both Klobuchar AND Buttigieg will be endorsing Biden at his Dallas event at 7:30pm CT. Amy and Pete on the same stage making nice? That's going to interesting to watch.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

So is there anyone left besides Biden Bloomberg and Bernie, and Warren?

Warren likely stays in because she's going to be promised the VP slot if she does. Bloomberg stays in because his goal from the start is a brokered convention where he can buy the nomination.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Biden will likely get obliterated in debates by Trump, and judging from how the primaries are turning out he's going to lose a lot of support, much like Hilary did, because he's not Bernie/Warren/Etc. Bernie will scream collusion, conspiracy, and his supporters will not vote in the general.

I agree, Biden is probably still the strongest opponent, but no way is it "Easily".

How long until they start arguing about who has the biggest dick at the debate?

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

How long until they start arguing about who has the biggest dick at the debate?

Sadly, you know it's gonna happen.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

So the speculation is that both Klobuchar AND Buttigieg will be endorsing Biden at his Dallas event at 7:30pm CT. Amy and Pete on the same stage making nice? That's going to interesting to watch.

Amy may not be the President, but she made sure she's the President of her and Pete.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

There's got to be a Poly Sci dissertation on why the GOP candidates did not fall in line to drop out and endorse a not-Trump but the Dem candidates fell in line to drop out and endorse a not-Bernie.

The Democrats with ties to Wall Street fall in line in fear of Bernie while Trump's ultra nationalism wasn't as scary

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Biden's best debate was the one before South Carolina. He probably won that debate (or co-won it with Sanders). He's better than Trump was without a doubt.

Keep the faith. pic.twitter.com/FJh3BkNvqN

— Richard M. Nixon (@dick_nixon) March 2, 2020

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Counterpoint to myself: will the consolidation piss off enough Bernie bros so badly that they throw a temper tantrum in November and refuse to vote for Biden, throwing the election to teh Donald?

I think some will but Biden is pretty far to the right on issues that matter to Sanders supporters. Hasn't helped that Biden has spent the primary talking about how great Republicans are and how he can't wait to work with them. If you nominated a guy who has been wrong about almost every single major issue in his 40 year political career, why is he owed anyone's vote?

I'd probably hold my nose and vote Biden depending on what he says and plans to do. Then again, he's much more of a warmonger than Trump so it's not as cut and dry. Foreign policy matters a lot to me, I'm tired of endless wars (and pulling out of Afghanistan gets a big thumbs up from me).

I would not have voted for Bloomberg though under any circumstance. My primary picks were Warren and Sanders. Won't vote in a primary for anyone who supported the Iraq War.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Amy may not be the President, but she made sure she's the President of her and Pete.

LOL

I do think Klobuchar has a good shot of being named Biden's running mate. Buttigieg may be angling for US Ambassador to the UN?

[Arles]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

There's got to be a Poly Sci dissertation on why the GOP candidates did not fall in line to drop out and endorse a not-Trump but the Dem candidates fell in line to drop out and endorse a not-Bernie.

I don't think the GOP ever thought Trump could win (even with a large split in the primary). Meanwhile, the Dems want to do everything in their power to get rid of Trump. The latter means making sure their best candidate (in the minds of the leadership) gets the nomination.

[molson]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

lol, praising some literacy program in a tiny regional country where much of the population was enslaved by the previous regime is worse than decades of supporting war criminals

His praise of Cuba and the Soviet Union has gone way beyond literacy. There's a reason Sanders talks and is asked about Cuba in the first place. You have to go back to the late 80s, and we all gave him the benefit of the doubt that he matured since then, but then from there it doesn't take much to wonder where he really stands now, and how much he's learned to not say what people don't want to hear to further his personal ambitions.

But if it really is all about literacy, what makes that so relevant in light of the atrocities of those regimes? Pointing to random metrics irrelevant to anything else is authoritarian propaganda.

I think you're also minimizing, as Sanders has always done, what Castro did to Cuba long-term. A lot of countries were ruled by military dictatorships in the 50s. I don't know what you do and don't believe about Castro and Cuba and how much you think what we know is really just right-wing conspiracies and propaganda like Sanders has said back then, but, other people have different perspectives and that will impact Sanders with some people.

You mentioned earlier how your company does business with China. Some people would find that immoral. In your value system, it's OK and that's fine. Other people may have different value systems and concerns. The fact that your values aren't identical with those who find some things about Sanders problematic doesn't mean that those things can't impact elections.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by molson

But if it really is all about literacy, what makes that so relevant in light of the atrocities of those regimes? Pointing to random metrics irrelevant to anything else is authoritarian propaganda.

Keeping people illiterate was a technique by slaveholders. So it was a big deal that the country made such a turnaround in that regard. Literacy and slavery have a history so it is just something people talk about together.

Originally Posted by molson

I think you're also minimizing, as Sanders has always done, what Castro did to Cuba long-term. A lot of countries were ruled by military dictatorships in the 50s. I don't know what you do and don't believe about Castro and Cuba and how much you think what we know is really just right-wing conspiracies and propaganda like Sanders has said back then, but, other people have different perspectives and that will impact Sanders with some people.

I think you're minimizing what we did. We supported Batista and all the atrocities he committed. Castro is a bad person, but he was the lesser evil. Both are bad and I don't agree with Sanders downplaying what Castro was. But I also understand how our actions caused Castro to take power.

My point has been that this country has backed some of the most reprehensible dictators in human history. And we cherry-pick a few because they didn't hand over their sugar cane fields or whatever financial interest it was at the time.

We should compare history though. Biden has praised war criminal Henry Kissinger and parroted his policies on the Senate floor. He supported dictator Mubarak just a few years back. Supported the Serbian bombings that kept war criminal Milosevic in power. And has maintained a consistent stance of supporting violent right-wing dictators in Central America. And lets not forget about the Iraq War.

Who ultimately has supported worse people in their career?

Originally Posted by molson

You mentioned earlier how your company does business with China. Some people would find that immoral. In your value system, it's OK and that's fine. Other people may have different value systems and concerns.

I did not create an economy that requires me to do business with China. I am also not running for President.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Arles

(in the minds of the leadership)

That's the problem with the Democrats. Their leaders are dumbshits who always lose.

[RainMaker]

If you want to know why wealthy leadership supports Biden, just look at a health insurance stock on the news of the Klobuchar endorsement.

These people give the DNC and members a lot of money. They provide lobbying jobs for them later in life. There is a lot of money at stake for people involved in the party.



Biden is also very good for the pharmaceutical industry (and bad for you if you want to get a vaccine at a reasonable price).

https://theintercept.com/2020/03/02/...ouging-senate/

[Arles]

A buddy of mine posed an interesting question to me today and I'd like to hear what you guys think. You have to chose one:

1. Biden or Bernie wins, but the economy is in a downward trend (through no fault of their own - just the normal cycle). Republicans pounce and gain seats in the senate/house, setting them up for a strong 2024. But, you don't have to deal with Trump anymore.

2. Trump wins but the same economic issues appear. He goes even more off the rails and democrats make gains in the senate/house. You have to deal with Trump for another 4 years, but the democrats are actually in a strong position to have a group capable of making change if the candidate in 2024 can win.

This is actually pretty tough for me because 4 more years of Trump would be hard to stomach. But, I think I chose option 2 for the chance at some real reform on gun control, health care and cleaner energy for 2024.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Counterpoint to myself: will the consolidation piss off enough Bernie bros so badly that they throw a temper tantrum in November and refuse to vote for Biden, throwing the election to teh Donald?

If you follow their group in Reddit, yes, yes they will. They're already throwing their tantrums and screaming about being happy if the party gets fucked over to radicalize more people who will be angry about losing.



So they're ready to let the country get fucked for the next 20-30 years now, just so they can get people to their side after and get power. I mean, that's rather scorched earth, but when your primary opposition outlaw's your party and policies and makes you irrelevant because you couldn't pull your shit together.....I doubt they'll see even that as a loss. Remind of those people who know who always need to feed the drama beast.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Arles

A buddy of mine posed an interesting question to me today and I'd like to hear what you guys think. You have to chose one:

1. Biden or Bernie wins, but the economy is in a downward trend (through no fault of their own - just the normal cycle). Republicans pounce and gain seats in the senate/house, setting them up for a strong 2024. But, you don't have to deal with Trump anymore.

2. Trump wins but the same economic issues appear. He goes even more off the rails and democrats make gains in the senate/house. You have to deal with Trump for another 4 years, but the democrats are actually in a strong position to have a group capable of making change if the candidate in 2024 can win.

This is actually pretty tough for me because 4 more years of Trump would be hard to stomach. But, I think I chose option 2 for the chance at some real reform on gun control, health care and cleaner energy for 2024.

1 and take my chances

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

If you follow their group in Reddit, yes, yes they will. They're already throwing their tantrums and screaming about being happy if the party gets fucked over to radicalize more people who will be angry about losing.

So they're ready to let the country get fucked for the next 20-30 years now, just so they can get people to their side after and get power. I mean, that's rather scorched earth, but when your primary opposition outlaw's your party and policies and makes you irrelevant because you couldn't pull your shit together.....I doubt they'll see even that as a loss. Remind of those people who know who always need to feed the drama beast.

Good to get those excuses up and running early for when Biden gets his ass kicked like every other establishment Dem has.

[RainMaker]

Are we still blaming Jill Stein voters or is it Russia that did it to Hillary?

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

1 and take my chances

1 and it isn't close. The damage Trump is doing to the country is profound. I'm worried that the next GOP president, especially if it's someone like Cotton or Hawley, will be Trump, but with smarts and effort, but I'll take that on when we get there. Right now the biggest threat to our democracy is Trump.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Are we still blaming Jill Stein voters or is it Russia that did it to Hillary?

Yes.

The margin was so small that every reason is THE reason. Stein, Comey, Russia, Hillary's campaign choices... Change any one of those and she probably wins.

[Jas_lov]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Counterpoint to myself: will the consolidation piss off enough Bernie bros so badly that they throw a temper tantrum in November and refuse to vote for Biden, throwing the election to teh Donald?

It shouldn't. If Bernie has the movement he says he does then he'll win big tomorrow and it'll be hard to catch him. They need to go out and win or stop complaining if they don't. They could be trying to convince the supporters of Pete and Amy to join them. It's no guarantee they go to Biden.