*World Cup Game Discussion Thread* (SPOILERS)

[Galaxy]

So, it's:

Sweden vs. Germany
Mexico vs. Argentina
Australia vs. Italy
Ukraine vs. Switzerland

The other bracket
Ecuador vs. England
Portugal vs. Netherlands
Ghana vs. Brazil
Likely-France vs. Spain


Also, was some type of relationship between Croatia and Australia happening? Keep talking about it a little bit during the game.

[vyshka]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

We have this debate every four years.

What's nice about soccer is that its format doesn't lend itself well to the constant commercial interruptions our billion-dollar television networks subject us to with other sports.

But the sport itself doesn't suit our tastes. If you're raised on baseball and football, soccer is just too foreign.

I think the hockey strike has made this a Big Three for now, though that could revert at some point. But one thing hockey and soccer have in common is that you don't hear a lot of Americans called the best players in the world.

Perhaps we just can't handle that.

I agree that the format doesn't lend itself to commercialization which is
probably one of the biggest things holding it back. I don't see how anyone
who has watched a baseball game, can call a soccer game more boring.
Probably part of the problem is the quality of the games that people can see
here. It would be nice if we had better coverage of the European leagues
than we do.

Anyone know if any of Keller's goal kicks didn't end with the opposing team
having possession?

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by vyshka

I don't see how anyone
who has watched a baseball game, can call a soccer game more boring.

This is my feeling too. I can not stand baseball and can't even make it through a single innings, even at the International level where I can watch just about any sport.

[GoldenEagle]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

So, it's:

Sweden vs. Germany
Mexico vs. Argentina
Australia vs. Italy
Likely-Ukraine vs. Switzerland/France/S. Korea

The other bracket
Ecuador vs. England
Portugal vs. Netherlands
Ghana vs. Brazil
Likely-Switzerland/France/S. Korea vs. Spain


Also, was some type of relationship between Croatia and Australia happening? Keep talking about it a little bit during the game.

I think Viduka has dual citzenship between those two countries?

[GoldenEagle]

Originally Posted by vyshka

I agree that the format doesn't lend itself to commercialization which is
probably one of the biggest things holding it back. I don't see how anyone
who has watched a baseball game, can call a soccer game more boring.
Probably part of the problem is the quality of the games that people can see
here. It would be nice if we had better coverage of the European leagues
than we do.

It is all in the mindset. To most Americans, soccer is just a bunch of guys kicking around a ball. They just can not understand how some one can get so excited about that. There is nothing wrong with that, but it is going to take a mind-set change for American soccer to bloom.

For most American males, they only want to play the 'mancho' sports that are going to get them attention. Soccer is just not that sport here.

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

So, it's:

Sweden vs. Germany
Mexico vs. Argentina
Australia vs. Italy
Likely-Ukraine vs. Switzerland/France/S. Korea

The other bracket
Ecuador vs. England
Portugal vs. Netherlands
Ghana vs. Brazil
Likely-Switzerland/France/S. Korea vs. Spain


Also, was some type of relationship between Croatia and Australia happening? Keep talking about it a little bit during the game.

I think I'd rather be in the top bracket.

[GoldenEagle]

From what I am hearing, Klinnsman (sp?) will be the US coach if Arena goes. I think he has already announced that he is stepping down at the end of the World Cup. The rumor is he has been keeping tabs on MLS players and would like to help develop the league.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Also, was some type of relationship between Croatia and Australia happening? Keep talking about it a little bit during the game.

Yeah, a number of players (don't know exactly which ones off the top of my head) on our squad have Croatian backgrounds, as do a few Croatian players, including one who was born and grew up here. We have a big Croatian population in Australia, especially in Melbourne.

[vex]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

He's in the MLS now. He always goes to Spain in Football Manager

Germany for me.

Adu is at Juventus.

[MrBug708]

So do we all hate Freddy Adu after his PTI comments?

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

So do we all hate Freddy Adu after his PTI comments?

Yeah he's a dolt. I guess i should cut him some slack for being a kid still though.

I read it as, 'you better start playing me on the US national team or I'm going to take my overrated skills to Ghana'.

Really, I'm not sure who in Europe is even going to give him a chance on the first team (reserves I could see).

[MJ4H]

what were they?

[MrBug708]

He said that the PK was the right call and kept referring to Ghana as WE instead of they...among other things

[bulletsponge]

hes trying to get to be a regular on the US national team, no doubt. his handlers know even though american attention spans to soccer is very small, he will make truckloads more money being an american international than a Ghanan. the second he would become a Ghanan national player is the second he completely looses all his endorments in the states, the only thing that makes him special so far is that he is an american, not one of hundereds of other talented 16yo's

[SirFozzie]

He can't play for Ghana, he's played a national team for the game, he's locked in to the US

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Wow. Croatian defender gets his second yellow, but the ref misses it!
Guy get his third yellow now!?
Final score 2-2 or 3-2? I'm confused.

Just watched this on Tivo. LOL.

[Abe Sargent]

I personally think Arena screwed up not taking Adu on the National team to teh World Cup. Get him some playing time to learn the game at an international level above Canada. (He previously played for the US National team in a friendly
agaisnt Canada)

Of course, that's not the only screw up. Eddie Johnson was playing well enough to get starts. We had FOUR SHOTS ON TARGET in three games. You think switching some offensive players around might have done something, Bruce?

-Anxiety

[GoldenEagle]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

He can't play for Ghana, he's played a national team for the game, he's locked in to the US

Not true. He can still play for Ghana if he chooses under new FIFA rules.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

He can't play for Ghana, he's played a national team for the game, he's locked in to the US

Sure he can. His one appearance wasnt on a non sanctioned FIFA INT game and therefore does not count

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Also, was some type of relationship between Croatia and Australia happening? Keep talking about it a little bit during the game.

Australia took many refugees from the breakup of Yugoslavia. Three of the Croatian squad were born in Australia and developed their game at the Australian Institute of Sport. Simunic - the player who received 3 yellow cards and should have had a fourth for his rugby tackle on Viduka early in the game - is the highest profile player. Names like Viduka, Kalac, Popovic etc in the Aussie squad tell you about their family background.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by Bisbo

Just logged on, so please excuse me if this already has been addressed, but can somebody please tell me why Landon Donovan wasn't in the lineup today?

Hey, that was my line last time. That's copyright infringement!

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

He can't play for Ghana, he's played a national team for the game, he's locked in to the US

According to him he can. Actually that was the part of the interview that pissed me off the most. They asked him if he had the option to play for either the Ghana team or the USA team right now which one would he choose. And he basically hemmed and hawed, saying it was too difficult to choose and he didn't know who he was going to be playing for in 2010.

The way I took it was he had his feelings hurt he wasn't on the USA team this year and he was threatening the US to play for Ghana if they didn't start playing him on the international squad immediately.

[SirFozzie]

Well, Freddy Adu is Freddy Adumb on this one.

You play a game for the national team, you are locked in.

[Icy]

Spain winning 1-0 already, playing 11 reserves, even the keeper. If you guys are watching it, look at Joaquin as right winger. He is probably the fastest guy in Spain with a ball on his foot. Some guys are faster on pure speed, but not controlling the ball.

Real Madrid is always looking to buy him from Betis, it's said every preseason but they never end doint it. He should be a starter and probably will be after this game if he keeps playing this way.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Well, Freddy Adu is Freddy Adumb on this one.

You play a game for the national team, you are locked in.

Not if it was only a frienldy match, I think. Let's see what the FIFA Statutes say:

If a Player has more than one nationality, or if a Player acquires a new nationality, or if the Player is eligible to play for several Association teams due to his nationality, the following exceptions apply:

(a) Up to his 21st birthday, a player may only once request changing the Association for which he is eligible to play international matches. A Player may exercise this right to change Associations only if he has not played at “A" international level for his current Association and if at the time of his first full or partial appearance in an international match in an official competition of any other category, he already had such nationalities. Changing Associations is not permitted during the preliminary competition of a FIFA competition, continental championship or Olympic Tournaments if a player has already been fielded in a match of one of these competitions.

(b) Any Player who has already acquired eligibility to play for one Association but has another nationality imposed upon him by a government authority, is also entitled to change associations. This provision is not subject to any age limits.

Leaves the question what playing at "A" international level means. If friendlies don't count, as like in the past, then Adu is young enough to change his mind.

[Icy]

What an ugly and boring second half in the Spain-Saudi game. Spanish reserve guys should have taken the chance to try to impress the national coach but they only played well in the first half. Really boring game.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

hes trying to get to be a regular on the US national team, no doubt. his handlers know even though american attention spans to soccer is very small, he will make truckloads more money being an american international than a Ghanan. the second he would become a Ghanan national player is the second he completely looses all his endorments in the states, the only thing that makes him special so far is that he is an american, not one of hundereds of other talented 16yo's

I agree thhere's no way he goes to play for Ghana. If he does, bye bye Nike deal and any chance at being an American hero. Or put another way, every single American soccer fan would hate him. Anyway, a lot of 16 year olds have been the next best thing and end up playing in a lower league their whole career. He has a long way to go before he's proven he's deserving of anything.

Although in his defense, I actually think he and Rossi would have done better than Donovan and Beasley. Surely couldn't have done worse. 4 frickin' shots on goal.

[Celeval]

Actually, I think this is the World Cup where the United States joins the soccer-playing nations of the world in the fullest meaning.


We're considering firing our coach for a poor showing. That's huge.

[QuikSand]

If the international rules had Adu completely locked in to play for the US team forever, leaveing him no option at all to play for Ghana... don't we think somebody -- Tony, Stat Boy, that Schwab guy, Freddie himself, whomever -- somebody would have brought this up either before or during this becoming a major line of questioning on the air? Am I missing something?

Incidentally, perhaps for any profound sort of patriotism on the matter, I found Adu very charming and linkeable on PTI.

[Celeval]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

He's in the MLS now. He always goes to Spain in Football Manager

Heerenveen in mine (9th season there - he's played well, ratings-wise but not spectacular). Adu has started 38 games in two seasons since a transfer to Roma (24 y/o now).

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

If the international rules had Adu completely locked in to play for the US team forever, leaveing him no option at all to play for Ghana... don't we think somebody -- Tony, Stat Boy, that Schwab guy, Freddie himself, whomever -- somebody would have brought this up either before or during this becoming a major line of questioning on the air? Am I missing something?

Incidentally, perhaps for any profound sort of patriotism on the matter, I found Adu very charming and linkeable on PTI.

He definitely is not locked into playing for the US. Friendlies don't count for CAP-tieing someone to a country, only internationally sanctioned (by FIFA) matches do. He has until he turns 21 to change his nationality if he doesn't play in a sanctioned match for the US National Team before then.

[moriarty]

Originally Posted by Celeval

Heerenveen in mine (9th season there - he's played well, ratings-wise but not spectacular). Adu has started 38 games in two seasons since a transfer to Roma (24 y/o now).

I have him as my starting left winger fro Manchester City. He's been a stud scoring goals, and averaging right around an 8.0 rating for several seasons now. Tends to wear down later in the season though (I think the US raters for FM were a bit generous with him).

[vex]

Originally Posted by moriarty

I have him as my starting left winger fro Manchester City. He's been a stud scoring goals, and averaging right around an 8.0 rating for several seasons now. Tends to wear down later in the season though (I think the US raters for FM were a bit generous with him).

I think they were a bit generous with MANY US players.

[cartman]

I too am a bit perplexed about the talk around why US fans don't want to watch soccer. Only sports with action and/or lots of scoring will get our attention, so the theory goes.

If that's the case, how come golf gets so much TV attention? There's mostly some guys walking around, a ball gets hit once every few minutes, and the object of the game is to get the lowest score possible.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by cartman

If that's the case, how come golf gets so much TV attention?

With the exception of The Masters and the occasional Tiger-effect event ratings, the numbers for the PGA aren't all that great - often around 2.0 Household rating or less.

The difference is that the TV audience for golf is one of the highest income demographics of any program, sports or otherwise, making it very desirable for certain niche advertisers. It's one of relatively few ways to reach older affluent males with TV consistently (I believe the average PGA viewer is a 57 y/o male).

The proliferation of golf on TV is simply a case of networks trying to generate inventory that's saleable, and often at a premium rate higher that what the raw viewership numbers would dictate.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

With the exception of The Masters and the occasional Tiger-effect event ratings, the numbers for the PGA aren't all that great - often around 2.0 Household rating or less.

The difference is that the TV audience for golf is one of the highest income demographics of any program, sports or otherwise, making it very desirable for certain niche advertisers. It's one of relatively few ways to reach older affluent males with TV consistently (I believe the average PGA viewer is a 57 y/o male).

The proliferation of golf on TV is simply a case of networks trying to generate inventory that's saleable, and often at a premium rate higher that what the raw viewership numbers would dictate.

Interesting - what else appeals to this ? I'm curious, because one of the arguements I read in favor of keeping Arrested Development on the air was that it had a higher income bracket. Are there specific shows and segments that tend to attract the big money viewers as a niche ?

[kingfc22]

France vs. Togo ref is the same guy who did the US vs. Italy game.

Should be interesting.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by cartman

I too am a bit perplexed about the talk around why US fans don't want to watch soccer. Only sports with action and/or lots of scoring will get our attention, so the theory goes.

If that's the case, how come golf gets so much TV attention? There's mostly some guys walking around, a ball gets hit once every few minutes, and the object of the game is to get the lowest score possible.

I also think that's a false comparison. In golf, there are lots and lots and lots of events that directly factor into the ultimate "score." Every single hole, for every player, counts. Obviously toward the end, it becomes clear that only a limited subset are relevant to who wins the whole tournament, but there is "scoring" of a sort on literally every stroke of the ball. It's action of a sort.

A cynical view of soccer says that they play and play and play for 90 minutes, they have possession after possession, but the only thing that really "mattered," in the end was the one mistake made by the defenseman where he allowed a turnover thet resulted in the open shot for the side that won one-nil. It's not necessarily the lack of 'action" (things happen in a soccer match that can be pretty interesting) but the lack of actual scoring leaves you feeling like most of the action was really for naught.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

With the exception of The Masters and the occasional Tiger-effect event ratings, the numbers for the PGA aren't all that great - often around 2.0 Household rating or less.

The difference is that the TV audience for golf is one of the highest income demographics of any program, sports or otherwise, making it very desirable for certain niche advertisers. It's one of relatively few ways to reach older affluent males with TV consistently (I believe the average PGA viewer is a 57 y/o male).

The proliferation of golf on TV is simply a case of networks trying to generate inventory that's saleable, and often at a premium rate higher that what the raw viewership numbers would dictate.

Good and interesting info.

But I'm a little more curious about the "casual" fan. I know that's a hard one to define, but I wonder how many of the people who claim they aren't interested in soccer because of the slow pace, lack of scoring, etc. are "casual" fans of golf.

Maybe there isn't that much of a difference, based on the TV numbers for "big" golf events versus "big" soccer events. But golf seems to be much more in the national sports realm of conciousness than soccer.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I also think that's a false comparison. In golf, there are lots and lots and lots of events that directly factor into the ultimate "score." Every single hole, for every player, counts. Obviously toward the end, it becomes clear that only a limited subset are relevant to who wins the whole tournament, but there is "scoring" of a sort on literally every stroke of the ball. It's action of a sort.

A cynical view of soccer says that they play and play and play for 90 minutes, they have possession after possession, but the only thing that really "mattered," in the end was the one mistake made by the defenseman where he allowed a turnover thet resulted in the open shot for the side that won one-nil. It's not necessarily the lack of 'action" (things happen in a soccer match that can be pretty interesting) but the lack of actual scoring leaves you feeling like most of the action was really for naught.

I can accept that. But then that leaves open the comparison to a 1-0 baseball game. Some would hail it as a classic pitcher's duel, and others 2 1/2 hours of boredom.

I guess what it boils down to is that you like a sport, you will over-emphasize the positives, and if you don't like it, over-accentuate the negatives.

[Celeval]

Originally Posted by cartman

Maybe there isn't that much of a difference, based on the TV numbers for "big" golf events versus "big" soccer events. But golf seems to be much more in the national sports realm of conciousness than soccer.

Golf is also a "I try that..." game - you don't have a lot of people who go out and play 11-on-11 soccer past age 30 or so, but there are a lot of people who do out and golf to some extent.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Interesting - what else appeals to this ? I'm curious, because one of the arguements I read in favor of keeping Arrested Development on the air was that it had a higher income bracket. Are there specific shows and segments that tend to attract the big money viewers as a niche ?

It's probably narrower than just "high income", especially as TV becomes more & more niched due to cable. For example, a network like FineLiving tends to skew middle age female while History Channel skews older male, but both have higher than average household incomes.

[Critch]

If Ribery and Trezeguet could hit a barndoor from 5 yards, France would be about 5-0 up by now.

[TazFTW]

Dang, French.

[Schmidty]

Soccer question - Why don't they just stop the clock at various times in the match, instead of having the stupid overtime thing. It's totally illogical to me.

[kingfc22]

And the French will advance

[Ryan S]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Soccer question - Why don't they just stop the clock at various times in the match, instead of having the stupid overtime thing.

Because there is no official game clock. The referee is the time keeper. The timer on your TV screen is unofficial.

The reason why we now have the number of injury time minutes displayed at the end of a game is because it helps to eliminate controversy.

[Critch]

I'm hoping for the French to advance, Zidane bowing out of world soccer with a suspension for a soft booking would have been the wrong way for him to go.

Now we'll get to see him bow out in a defeat to Spain

[TazFTW]

The flag was up, Koreans stop, Swiss score a goal, goal stands.

[Abe Sargent]

The refs are raping the Koreans with a missing penalty kick when a swiss defender hand balled and now this?


-Anxiety