Werewolf 40,000: The Horus Heresy CHAOS DEFEATED; MUTANTS SURVIVE

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

I think it is almost too convienent that grey "converted" mustang and then "cleared" fouts last night. They may have been working together all along. If mustang knew his death would leave to ghost form from the beginning then it is a great move for grey to say he converted him.

Who is "they", Grey and Mustang or Grey and Fouts?

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Fouts

King says saldana is a mutant, which is what I thought all along.

vote saldana

If true, this is a bad move...the mutants count in the villager ratio when calculating chaos win. Yes, they impede our total victory. But eliminating them also move the chaos closer to their victory. We should only kill muntants when we have rooted out the chaos and have enough ratio left to spend time gunning for total victory. But chaos should be our first and last objective with this lynch

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by BrianD

This is an interesting point, and scary if true. Didn't Grey interrogate GE on the first night? I've been through my own interrogation with him, and there was no actual communication. Fouts, I'm assuming you agree with this?

No communication at all. He was there only to determine my loyalty. I'm starting to think he is the Mutant Psyker.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Fouts

No communication at all. He was there only to determine my loyalty. I'm starting to think he is the Mutant Psyker.

So he can telepathically communicate with mutants and interrogate people? That seems like too much for one role.

[Fouts]

Alright blade, you have convinced me. If you are a once good guy, come back as bad guy, then call me a fool.

unvote saldana

vote greyroofoo

[kingfc22]

The only way I see grey as good is if he is a mutant. I don't think tangle would make alan and grey both regular good guys since they seemingly have the same ability.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

If true, this is a bad move...the mutants count in the villager ratio when calculating chaos win. Yes, they impede our total victory. But eliminating them also move the chaos closer to their victory. We should only kill muntants when we have rooted out the chaos and have enough ratio left to spend time gunning for total victory. But chaos should be our first and last objective with this lynch

I agree with this.

I'm out for dinner. Hopefully I'll be back before the deadline.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by BrianD

So he can telepathically communicate with mutants and interrogate people? That seems like too much for one role.

Originally Posted by rule

The mutants are 'led' by a Mutant Psyker who has gained some rudimentary psychic powers. He can contact the other mutants in the game by sending out one PM per night. He does not know the idendity of the other mutants, but has a chance of discovering the identity of one every time he sends a night message. The other Mutants know the identity of the Mutant Psyker but not of each other.

Yeah, it is alot of power.

[kingfc22]

That's scary. All 3 of us pretty much posted the same theory at the same time.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Dude, where were you 2 days ago. Oh wait, we killed you.

GE has been non-existent, so that might explain his not helping us. How many chaos do you think there are? We started with 18.

I will say this. As it becomes more and more apparent that each and every one of us has a role, i think that increases the number of baddies. Counting the fact the mutants want the villagers to win, i think we have 4-5 bad guys(with 1, pos. 2 dead now). I also believe, despite their alignment, they hold the power of their roles most likely. So i dont doubt grey has been visiting people, or anxiety was scanning people. I just dont think they are doing it in good heart.

The fact GE is our best weapon against the chaos, and has helped us 0, voted for 0, found us 0, and is not dead yet worries me highly. The fact grey talked his way past my guard and both agreed had a conversation on night 1 worries me as well. A lot worries me, but thats WW

[kingfc22]

Okay, got to go back to work.

Going to Vote Greyroofoo.

I think he has been playing us the entire time.

[Fouts]

Blade, what is Swaggs then? Did you read his story about his reveal? Isn't it likely that Grey is the mutant leader and Swaggs is the chaos leader?

[Blade6119]

VOTE GREYROOFOO

It will be fitting if im wrong after how i got screwed on day 2, but i THINK this should be a pretty solid lynch

[st.cronin]

What exactly is the argument against grey? That he has the same role as Alan, and Alan was good, therefore grey is bad? I'm not sure I see it. This seems like villagers talking themselves into a crazy scenario when the simple scenario makes the most sense.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Blade, what is Swaggs then? Did you read his story about his reveal? Isn't it likely that Grey is the mutant leader and Swaggs is the chaos leader?

What confused me about his reveal, and one reason im leaning towards trust with him, is his reveal was loaded with evidence that gave us reasons to vote for him. What bad guy claims hes turning into a vampire?
Couple things stick out here. He said he was abnormal, said you were preventing him from becoming normal, and he said he was becoming a vampire. That screamed mutant to me, i dont know about you. The AlanT thing is was threw me for a loop, i havent figured out how alan fits in with the curse. I figured you were mentioned, as the head of adminisomething, you would be key in putting into law what the mutants want, and you dont want to do that. Everything to me points to mutant, except the alan thing which confuses me.

Now, he also mentioned mustang knowing about the curse, which i never saw. If anyone would link that for me, id appreciate it.

Here are the relevant sections of his reveal for reference in my mind:

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I am cursed and as such, am abnormal. The counter to this is that I cannot be lynched, period. If I am lynched, nothing will happen, at all.Each night, I have the ability to research the history of my gene-line to try and figure out how to overcome the curse.
Night 1: I was told that it was very important that Alan T survive this "troubling time." Without him, my chances for survival would become very small.
Night 3: I learned that, it is believed that the family of Fouts once possed a spear that had, in the past, prevented my ancestors from acting upon the curse.
Night 4: It seems that, as I age, I will develop (paraphrasing here) uncontrollable vampire-like tendencies.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

What confused me about his reveal, and one reason im leaning towards trust with him, is his reveal was loaded with evidence that gave us reasons to vote for him. What bad guy claims hes turning into a vampire?
Couple things stick out here. He said he was abnormal, said you were preventing him from becoming normal, and he said he was becoming a vampire. That screamed mutant to me, i dont know about you. The AlanT thing is was threw me for a loop, i havent figured out how alan fits in with the curse. I figured you were mentioned, as the head of adminisomething, you would be key in putting into law what the mutants want, and you dont want to do that. Everything to me points to mutant, except the alan thing which confuses me.

Now, he also mentioned mustang knowing about the curse, which i never saw. If anyone would link that for me, id appreciate it.

Here are the relevant sections of his reveal for reference in my mind:

Wow. You are not suspicious of a wacky reveal like that? I liken the role he has claimed to one like Lathum had a couple games back, when Lathum summoned me as the avatar, and ended up winning the game for himself.

If Swaggs isn't connected to Mustang, he needs to explain how Mustang knows that he has to be lynched twice. Mustang needs to provide us with his cohorts, because he is holding something back.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

What exactly is the argument against grey? That he has the same role as Alan, and Alan was good, therefore grey is bad? I'm not sure I see it. This seems like villagers talking themselves into a crazy scenario when the simple scenario makes the most sense.

Grey supported my claims, then turned and got me lynched. he talked his way past our bodyguards to our biggest weapon against the chaos on night one, openly admitted to having a conversation(where others he has scanned have said no talking was involved), and the person he met, our biggest weapon, is suprisingly still alive and not suprisingly not helping us in any way.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

What exactly is the argument against grey? That he has the same role as Alan, and Alan was good, therefore grey is bad? I'm not sure I see it. This seems like villagers talking themselves into a crazy scenario when the simple scenario makes the most sense.

What do you suggest we do? I haven't trusted Grey since the bullet lynch.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Wow. You are not suspicious of a wacky reveal like that? I liken the role he has claimed to one like Lathum had a couple games back, when Lathum summoned me as the avatar, and ended up winning the game for himself.

If Swaggs isn't connected to Mustang, he needs to explain how Mustang knows that he has to be lynched twice. Mustang needs to provide us with his cohorts, because he is holding something back.

Mustang cant speak until tonight, and then i would like him to tell us a bit more. But i got the strong vibes swaggs was a mutant, and as such has reason to try and hide information. But if he were chaos, if you were, would you tell people you were turning into a un-controllable vampire? That seems like its begging to be lynched. If i was bad, id do what grey is doing, going about his day acting normal as can be(oh, and killing off every seer who can verify his role, except for two people he scanned, king and GE(he scan king, im not sure))...anywho, i figured he was telling us hes a mutant, and therefore not our best target

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Fouts

What do you suggest we do? I haven't trusted Grey since the bullet lynch.

Mustang hasn't been proven WRONG yet, has he? Why are we getting tricky with this? Mustang's story made sense, and it matched up what we knew to have happened at night.

I am somewhat suspicious of Blade. I would like somebody to step forward and admit that they raised Blade - except my best guess is that it was in fact Swaggs.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Mustang hasn't been proven WRONG yet, has he? Why are we getting tricky with this? Mustang's story made sense, and it matched up what we knew to have happened at night.

I am somewhat suspicious of Blade. I would like somebody to step forward and admit that they raised Blade - except my best guess is that it was in fact Swaggs.

Swaggs raising blade worries me. What posted role can bring back the dead?

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

Grey came to me last night and we discussed Blade. I do not know why he came to me. He told me Blade was not chaos and I have every reason to believe him. Blade may be human or he may be a mutant, but he is not chaos.

This is key...he says they had a talk, and not only that they had it about me. There was no grey saying GE is loyal to the emporer, none of that. It was highly odd

This comment was before he voted for me and accused me of lying about my role...interesting again:

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

personally i think this is a huge case of villagers trying to execute villagers.

And both of their inital responses about the night 1 meeting:

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

Grey and I did meet last night. He came into my quaters and we had a heart to heart discussion about Blade. We both came to the conclussion that Blade is not chaos. I was prepard to kill Blade on the spot like I did Daddy Torgo, but it would be a mistake.

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

sorry, I was reading through the last 5 pages.

Blade speaks truth.

GE wanted to show me his copy of FOF 40k

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Swaggs raising blade worries me. What posted role can bring back the dead?

I would rather not lynch Blade until we know this for sure. I think the safest bet is to stick with Swaggs. Possibly we will know more about Blade tomorrow. If nobody admits to raising him, then surely it must have been Swaggs, right?

[Fouts]

Blade will have his vengeance.

[Blade6119]

dola:

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

Grey came to me last night and we discussed Blade. I do not know why he came to me. He told me Blade was not chaos and I have every reason to believe him. Blade may be human or he may be a mutant, but he is not chaos.

So grey tells GE im not a chaos, then calls me a liar and votes for me/encourages others to? Obviously its a bald faced lie, question is what reason do they have to lie?

[st.cronin]

The problem is if Grey was chaos, why would he even get involved in that pissing match? Why would he pick a side? Why wouldn't he just say, "I visited GE. GE is not chaos." Or something like that. That he picked a side tells me he's a misguided villager, not a chaos.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Blade will have his vengeance.

If i wanted vengeance i would be after saldana. He is the total reason i got lynched, and the reason i didnt get to finish baiting GE and grey on day 2. But alan's death has earned saldana trust.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I would rather not lynch Blade until we know this for sure. I think the safest bet is to stick with Swaggs. Possibly we will know more about Blade tomorrow. If nobody admits to raising him, then surely it must have been Swaggs, right?

So are we to believe that Swaggs killed Alan, and raised blade?

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

What exactly is the argument against grey? That he has the same role as Alan, and Alan was good, therefore grey is bad? I'm not sure I see it. This seems like villagers talking themselves into a crazy scenario when the simple scenario makes the most sense.

You mean like how on day 2 my crazy bodyguard scenario made no sense so it had to be false? Ya, simple scenario is always the right way to go

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Fouts

So are we to believe that Swaggs killed Alan, and raised blade?

lol, if you do your stupid

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Fouts

So are we to believe that Swaggs killed Alan, and raised blade?

Or perhaps there is another chaos out there - or even a human assasin, who went after Alan last night.

[Blade6119]

dola, stupid is a harsh word...more like truth-challenged

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

lol, if you do your stupid

Ok, tell us who raised you then.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Ok, tell us who raised you then.

He can tell you if he chooses. It shouldnt be too tough to guess considering most players have claimed roles. I will not say until i have given him time to do so. Its his role, his power, his reveal. He may do with it as he pleases, im just grateful he chose me

[st.cronin]

Well, I'm out til after lynch. My vote is on Swaggs, and I think he's the best bet. Blade is fishy. I don't believe anything he says.

[Blade6119]

Alright guys, whats the plan? Lynch grey, then have king scan swaggs? Everybody like that plan, or no?

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Wow. You are not suspicious of a wacky reveal like that? I liken the role he has claimed to one like Lathum had a couple games back, when Lathum summoned me as the avatar, and ended up winning the game for himself.

If Swaggs isn't connected to Mustang, he needs to explain how Mustang knows that he has to be lynched twice. Mustang needs to provide us with his cohorts, because he is holding something back.

it would stand to reason that if alan is a counter balance to grey (they have the same role for different teams), then mustang could be a counter balance to king....king is able to find out what our powers are, what if mustang could do the same thing for the chaos and he scanned swaggs, providing him with the 2x lynch information.

just a thought since we were looking for possible explanations, and the mirror image roles seem to be permeating this game

as i said this morning, i have never trusted grey, and have nothing but the word of a ghost to suspect swaggs of anything
vote greyroofoo

[saldana]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Well, I'm out til after lynch. My vote is on Swaggs, and I think he's the best bet. Blade is fishy. I don't believe anything he says.

funny, i dont believe anything you say. i think it is highly unlikely that the chaos or mutants have the ability to perform conversions AND resurrect a dead player as another of their cadre...the permutations of how many bad guys are left in this game are already ridiculous.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by saldana

it would stand to reason that if alan is a counter balance to grey (they have the same role for different teams), then mustang could be a counter balance to king....king is able to find out what our powers are, what if mustang could do the same thing for the chaos and he scanned swaggs, providing him with the 2x lynch information.

just a thought since we were looking for possible explanations, and the mirror image roles seem to be permeating this game

as i said this morning, i have never trusted grey, and have nothing but the word of a ghost to suspect swaggs of anything
vote greyroofoo

Path was a mutant and he had the other bodyguard like role...anxiety seemed to have a seer like role, the same one twothree had i believe. I actually see a lot now that i look. Ironically, the primarch, who everyone assumed were the same on day 1, may be the one group most unique

[Fouts]

Going to leave my vote on Grey. I'm found him suspicious for quite awhile. I'm going to a class and won't be back until late tonight. I think we'll get this one right, but I'm not convinced Tangle will tell us if we were right.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Alright guys, whats the plan? Lynch grey, then have king scan swaggs? Everybody like that plan, or no?

works for me....although i am now interested in seeing what golden eagle has to say about his night activities....the other people i asked gave me the responses i expected.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Path was a mutant and he had the other bodyguard like role...anxiety seemed to have a seer like role, the same one twothree had i believe. I actually see a lot now that i look. Ironically, the primarch, who everyone assumed were the same on day 1, may be the one group most unique

like i said when you showed up this afternoon, i was anxious to see your perspective while you were dead...its always easier to pick stuff up when you are only reading.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by saldana

like i said when you showed up this afternoon, i was anxious to see your perspective while you were dead...its always easier to pick stuff up when you are only reading.

To be honest i didnt read much. I still havent read much, only about 5 of the 20 or so i need to. I skimmed then when dead, but didnt read. Leaving ASU in a sec, and intend to read it all when i get home in like an hour. I may be missing things, but i think i hit the key points(the mustang saving/death claims, swaggs reveal, who has scanned who)

[Blade6119]

BrianD, can you tell me about your role at all? You and cronin are the roles i really am interested in right now, and cronin has claimed what his is repeatedly(claimed being the key word there)

[Blade6119]

Well well, here is GE...lets hear what our resident chaos hunter has to say...

[Blade6119]

dola, and id love to hear a night by ngiht rundown of what GE has done

[saldana]

just to mark the time since blades last post...i am sure ge is still reading, but he is still in the thread at this point

[Blade6119]

and GE is gone...i love how helpful he is...really

[Blade6119]

and hes back! Its like musical chairs!

[Blade6119]

I have to leave...i think its rather imperitive that grey is lynched today. That result will give us a strong path to follow, whatever the outcome. If GE talks in the next hour or so to deadline, dont sway your votes. Grey needs to be lynched, its rather key now.