Game of Thrones on HBO

[ISiddiqui]

To go further... it isn't like Trystane is at King's Landing - Myrcella is in Dorne. And you'd think Tyrion would know that they'd forget about the Myrcella plan in a heartbeat if they knew Dany was coming over. They'd likely try to marry Trystane to Dany.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

So Olly is totally going to try and kill Jon Snow, right?

They've filmed him with menacing outer frame angles all season. It's almost a betrayal of film technique if he doesn't try something.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I usually enjoy most (not all) of Andy Greenwald's Game of Thrones reviews. This line from this week's review made me laugh:

"Because last night’s episode of Thrones taught us that only three things can stop a rampaging army of pickax-wielding, undead popsicles: obsidian, Valyrian steel, and 6 to 10 inches of shallow water."

I don't know, it was halfway up Giant. So, I'm guessing it's closer to 6-10 feet of water than 10 inches.

[Julio Riddols]

Originally Posted by stevew

They've filmed him with menacing outer frame angles all season. It's almost a betrayal of film technique if he doesn't try something.

I think he's gonna try and kill him but some shit will go down at the same time and Jon will redeem himself in some way and after that Olly will come around. Either that or Olly will die in some way before he is able to do anything.

[RainMaker]

Can someone explain the difference in the zombies and the guys who shatter to pieces when you hit them with Valaryian steel? Are they the same or are the main guys different? Are the all considered whitewalkers?

[Vince, Pt. II]

The shatter guy was a wight/White Walker/Other. The zombies/skeletons are just animated corpses. The re-animated ones with blue eyes sort of fit between.

[stevew]

The white walkers can transform dead people into zombies and can only be killed by dragonglass or valyrian steel.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Can someone explain the difference in the zombies and the guys who shatter to pieces when you hit them with Valaryian steel? Are they the same or are the main guys different? Are the all considered whitewalkers?

From my understanding from the books.

The Whitewalkers are the guys who can be killed by dragonglass. The zombies are wights.

I'd always thought that the Whitewalkers/Others were different from the wights. ie, the wights were the reanimated corpses.

[chinaski]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

From my understanding from the books.

The Whitewalkers are the guys who can be killed by dragonglass. The zombies are wights.

I'd always thought that the Whitewalkers/Others were different from the wights. ie, the wights were the reanimated corpses.

Yeah, it's this.

[RainMaker]

Ok thanks, that's what I figured. What was the deal with the baby a couple seasons ago?

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Ok thanks, that's what I figured. What was the deal with the baby a couple seasons ago?

That's actually interesting. We know that the Whitewalkers can reanimate the dead into wights.

But what did the White Darth Maul do to that baby? I'm assuming that he turned the living baby into a Whitewalker?

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Ok thanks, that's what I figured. What was the deal with the baby a couple seasons ago?

You would NEVER make it at the temple of the Many-Faced God.

Neither would I. "So.....the vagueness is cool for scrubbing the corpses and all, but I'm going to need you to be a LOT more specific about this whole murder business. Let's start with some notes!"

[chinaski]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

That's actually interesting. We know that the Whitewalkers can reanimate the dead into wights.

But what did the White Darth Maul do to that baby? I'm assuming that he turned the living baby into a Whitewalker?

White Walkers have the ability to turn the living into a wight by touch.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by chinaski

White Walkers have the ability to turn the living into a wight by touch.

That's the conclusion I arrived at based on the baby scene. Would make sense of the arrangement with that one guy with the 20 wives who was a baby factory.

The wights/zombies are weak but there's a lot of them.

[whomario]

But what they want with a baby zombie ?

Originally Posted by SteveMax58

The wights/zombies are weak but there's a lot of them.

They also do not give a shit about dying or be hurt and you need to do serious damage to even slow them, always a good quality for your mass infantry. And if you pick up more guys as you go, that makes for pretty straight forward strategy

I thought the score and the general sound to the zombie attack was magnificent. The snippets of the title track (or am i crazy ?), the bouts of eerie quiet and more atmosperic sounds/sound effects (especially after john snow went down). Awesome how it faded to credits with no music at first. Perfect way to bring home the desolation we just witnessed.

Imo the subtle use of sound and the scenery was the difference between this and a World War Z (which i thought was a good movie on its own and seen as an action movie)

The scene with the zombified kids killed me ...

Can someone brief me on dragon glass ? How much of the stuff is around and where ? Why are there still no weapons of it really after all this time ? And tell me they did leave most of what they have at castle black, please ... (Also, why the hell do you leave it in that freaking tent and not carry some with you all the time, Snow ? “fuck the glass! And fuck you, Idiot !“ it should have been)

Is the valyrian steel knowledge worth anything with so little left?

Why was the boat sitting there btw ?

Glad the new wildling leader survived, good character and actor.

Tyrion pulled a punch regarding joffrey ... animals were hardly all he tortured.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by whomario

Can someone brief me on dragon glass ? How much of the stuff is around and where ? Why are there still no weapons of it really after all this time ? And tell me they did leave most of what they have at castle black, please ... (Also, why the hell do you leave it in that freaking tent and not carry some with you all the time, Snow ? “fuck the glass! And fuck you, Idiot !“ it should have been)
.

From here: Ask the Maester: The Origin of the Night’s King, the Wights, and Dragonglass «

Kristen asks: “A couple questions about dragonglass: Is dragonglass manufactured, or is it a natural resource? Do you need dragons to create it? Is it similar to Valyrian steel, in that there’s a finite amount of it in the world, and it’s only controlled by a fortunate few?”

Dragonglass is a naturally occurring, volcanic glass, described by the Maesters as being “forged in the fires of the gods, far below the earth.” The Night’s Watch’s records from the Age of Heroes tell us that the Children of the Forest used to supply the Watch with 100 daggers per year. Also, we know that the tunnels under the castle of Dragonstone on the island of the same name (which is still held by Stannis Baratheon) are rich with multicolored, boulder-size deposits of dragonglass. The Valyrians called dragonglass “frozen fire” and were known to use it to create mysterious black candles. For what purpose, no one really knows. I would assume that the ruins of Valyria, formerly the land of numerous magical volcanoes, would contain plenty of dragonglass for anyone brave enough to go get it.

I guess it’s possible that Dany could use her dragons to create dragonglass through concentrated and controlled fire-breathing on the right kind of igneous rock. But if she could control her dragons like that, then a much easier and more direct way to kill wights and White Walkers, it seems to me, would be to simply have the dragons breathe fire directly on said wights and White Walkers.

[whomario]

Ok, was not yet up when i looked earlier , thanks But do they have some available right now ? Seems to me theres hardly time and other than sam, has anybody given a shit and collected the stuff ? And Snow did not take it all or a lot of it with him ? I like him, but idealistic people of character from winterfell are dumbasses, largely

[Vince, Pt. II]

So I loved the hell out of the most recent episode, but I have to wonder whether or not the writers have written themselves into a corner. There is literally no way that anything north of Moat Cailin can stand up to that army. Forget the lack of Dragonglass or Valyrian Steel, I'm just talking about the undead infantry. The obvious answer is "dragons" but they are a long way away, and have no conceivable plot reason to get there any time soon. The wall was obviously designed to keep them out, but there's also not nearly enough manpower on the wall. I worry that in order to maintain continuity, there's going to have to be some sort of deus ex machina to contain the threat...unless the show is going to get really dark.

[ISiddiqui]

The undead are just going to hang out for a vacay... I mean they have beachfront property now .

[stevew]

Do the white walkers need a certain temperature to exist in? Obviously the Wall is there to keep them north of the wall, but are their other factors as well. When it hits a long winter, that means that Kings Landing is going to be under snow, correct?

Also isn't there some sort of horn that can supposedly bring down the walls aka Jericho? They can't mention that and not use it.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by stevew

Also isn't there some sort of horn that can supposedly bring down the walls aka Jericho? They can't mention that and not use it.

Yeah. Mance Rayder had it. He never really intended to use it, since his main goal was getting his people south of the Wall to get away from the Others. Using the Horn would have brought the Wall down and kind of defeated the purpose of it all. He would've only used it as a very last resort.

I sort of forget where it ended up in the books and whether it was mentioned at all in the show.

[ISiddiqui]

I don't think the Horn of Joramun was ever really mentioned in the show. Nor the other magical Horn.

In the books...

Spoiler

Mel burns the supposed Horn of Joramun, but Tormund tells Jon that wasn't the actual Horn.. they just found it in a giant's grave and it looked cool, so they said that was it - but the real one is out there still

[Honolulu_Blue]

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

So I loved the hell out of the most recent episode, but I have to wonder whether or not the writers have written themselves into a corner. There is literally no way that anything north of Moat Cailin can stand up to that army. Forget the lack of Dragonglass or Valyrian Steel, I'm just talking about the undead infantry. The obvious answer is "dragons" but they are a long way away, and have no conceivable plot reason to get there any time soon. The wall was obviously designed to keep them out, but there's also not nearly enough manpower on the wall. I worry that in order to maintain continuity, there's going to have to be some sort of deus ex machina to contain the threat...unless the show is going to get really dark.

I can think of a plot reason: Tyrion is a “believer“ or at least came to appreciate the watches role. And he liked Snow. And if varys ever arrives he could get word from the north somehow. Rally the watch and northern folk and ride that wave (especially if Stannis were to die, which would not exactly shock me)

Also, dont forget Brann coming back into play next season , he has to play some sort of role in all this. Maybe a Bran-posessed army of wolves and the like ?

[jeff061]

I was extremely happy with Bran not being in this season and would be perfectly OK if he disappeared without explanation.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I was extremely happy with Bran not being in this season and would be perfectly OK if he disappeared without explanation.

jeff061 doesn't like orphaned crippled kids. Got it.

[stevew]

That kid looks older than Greg Oden did at age 20.

[RainMaker]

What was the point of the Brotherhood without Banners scenes earlier in the show if they were never going to use them again?

[ISiddiqui]

Hopefully they will...

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

What was the point of the Brotherhood without Banners scenes earlier in the show if they were never going to use them again?

Hopefully they get back to them but I believe they were used to help confirm that magic was reawakening and that resurrection is possible.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

What was the point of the Brotherhood without Banners scenes earlier in the show if they were never going to use them again?

I think it could be the whole R'hollor can bring back the dead thing. I imagine that could play a role in future events, especially as the war between the Lord of Light and The Others escalate.

The Others aren't the only ones who can raise the dead and Dondarrion and the Brotherhood without Banners are our first exposure to this.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

On the other hand was anyone else a bit stunned by how stupid Tyrion was being in his "who is going to support you in Westeros" speech? Way to ignore 1/7th of the Kingdom who is basically waiting to jump up and down in joy if you came back (aka, Dorne).

Tyrion's still trying to get Dany's trust and make himself indispensable, hence why he was willing to throw Jorah under the bus. If he tells Dany "oh, btw, there's a whole region of the country who'll support you, led by almost as accomplished a political schemer as myself except with armies and lands" suddenly he's not so necessary.

Also, if shallow water can stop that army, I'm sure the enchanted 100 foot wall can too (until it's breached, via horn or otherwise). The water thing does bring up the question of why anyone over in Essos should care about the white walkers.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Tyrion's still trying to get Dany's trust and make himself indispensable, hence why he was willing to throw Jorah under the bus. If he tells Dany "oh, btw, there's a whole region of the country who'll support you, led by almost as accomplished a political schemer as myself except with armies and lands" suddenly he's not so necessary.

You think he's necessary if he should have known a region would support Dany but didn't let her know? In the context of her initially gaining her trust by telling her what to do with someone who betrayed her trust?

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

...the enchanted 100 foot wall...

IS the wall enchanted? I thought it was just a big ass wall.

[stevew]

700 foot wall

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

You think he's necessary if he should have known a region would support Dany but didn't let her know? In the context of her initially gaining her trust by telling her what to do with someone who betrayed her trust?

I think we're looking a little too deeply into a shortened conversation but he clearly knows about Dorne and didn't say anything untrue... I choose to believe it was moreso just presenting things in the simplest, toughest light for Dany's cause, but lazy writing is an equally probable explanation. I think either of those are far better explanations than "Tyrion's character has now forgotten about a part of the kingdom that was an integral part of his scheming as Hand."

[ISiddiqui]

Well, yes, I'm making the point that it was lazy writing.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

IS the wall enchanted? I thought it was just a big ass wall.

yes it is enchanted...it is said that the wall can defend itself.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I usually enjoy most (not all) of Andy Greenwald's Game of Thrones reviews. This line from this week's review made me laugh:

"Because last night’s episode of Thrones taught us that only three things can stop a rampaging army of pickax-wielding, undead popsicles: obsidian, Valyrian steel, and 6 to 10 inches of shallow water."

It's also a good idea to stop rowing completely when you're within rock throwing range of a huge undead army.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

It's also a good idea to stop rowing completely when you're within rock throwing range of a huge undead army.

Yeah, but that made for a killer visual Also served well in bringing home the point of the episode as i saw it. Some situations are beyond fear in a way.


If you, like me, want to use the enthusiasm of this epic episode to get a better grip on/re-acquaint yourself with the historic backstory of the series in a non-spoilery way: Someone was kind enough to upload the little "History & Lore" clips from the BluRay boxes (while also adding the season-appropriate soundtrack) which are basically 3-5 minute clips of the characters explaining different aspects of the backstory set over some pretty cool drawings of the events. (sometimes even contradictory accounts, like the sack of Kings Landing from the perspective of Viserys, Robert, Maester Luwin and Tywin).
For season 1 it is basically "the concise history of Westeros" while the other boxes contained more information on different houses, places or events.

GAME of THRONES - Season 1 ~ Complete History & Lore Animated Shorts (The Boss Owl Edition) - YouTube (for season 1 box, i trust you can find the other 3. Clips start about 5 minutes in)

I´d be down for a series of prequel movies some fine day

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by saldana

yes it is enchanted...it is said that the wall can defend itself.

Wasn't that just a quip in passing after some of the wildlings fell during the climb?

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

Wasn't that just a quip in passing after some of the wildlings fell during the climb?

Yeah, i remember it similarly. From the backstory i have read/watched of it now today, this seems to be one of those "well, old legends say it is" type of thing. However, some of these have proven true before, so ...

But i personally would say this is one that either is not true or will at least not come into play with the current "magical climate", i.e. within the duration of the struggle. There hasn´t been much indication that Martin or the show runners incorporate magic without some specific connection to specific figure, if i am not mistaken (the murderous shadow, the return of the dragons dragons, Brans animal-connections, the warlocks, even the rise of the dead with the now very-much-a-personality white walker)
I think that chunks of Ice breaking of a strucure like that is pretty normal. Heck, maybe its part of the design.

I wonder if Jon goes back to his original idea of flodding and freezing the tunnels, now that there is clearly no need for Rangers to go North and probably nothing living is going to be on the other side of the wall at any case.

[stevew]

So is that pretty much the last settlement north of the wall? As in (N->S) Bran/Dead People/Wall

[whomario]

Originally Posted by stevew

So is that pretty much the last settlement north of the wall? As in (N->S) Bran/Dead People/Wall

As far as the relevant world, it looks that way. If this were a documentary i would point out that there are still probably bands of people scattered over the huge landscape, but since its a TV show with a zombie army sweeping the land (and doing it with a plan rather than having to be awakened into action by people chanting stupidly from behind the wall ) ...

But i strongly assume that Bran and the Children of the Forrest will play a huge rule in some way next season.

I also thought of another plot reason for Dany and her dragons to come north, Snow possibly/maybe/sort of having Tagaryen blood ...

Dragons at the Wall would likely make for some spectacular visuals, at the very least

[stevew]

I suppose it's a common theory that Bran will warg into a dragon at some point(Drogon?)

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

Wasn't that just a quip in passing after some of the wildlings fell during the climb?

Not a huge spoiler, especially because this character didn't show up in the show, but it is book info

Spoiler

Coldhands couldn't (or at least wouldn't) go through the Wall.

Not sure if they're following that, but it's certainly believed to be enchanted, and I'd say we've seen enough things like Giants, White Walkers, Wights to put some stock into that.

[path12]

I don't know what it is, I watched the first four episodes this season and my interest has just fallen away for the rest of it and don't even know if I'll finish the season.

I'm assuming this is me telling me I'd rather see how the books unfold.

[Edward64]

There's a good chance the series won't be completed by GRRM.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by path12

I don't know what it is, I watched the first four episodes this season and my interest has just fallen away for the rest of it and don't even know if I'll finish the season.

I'm assuming this is me telling me I'd rather see how the books unfold.

I would watch the last episode to see if your interest isn't rekindled.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Edward64

There's a good chance the series won't be completed by GRRM.

Really?