The NBA 2010 offseason/draft thread

[Groundhog]

11 game road trip? Sheesh. Miami start with 8 of 12 at home, and their longest road swing is 5 games.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

11 game road trip? Sheesh. Miami start with 8 of 12 at home, and their longest road swing is 5 games.

Yeah, they also only have one 4-in-5 game stretch. They got one of the easiest schedules too.

Chicago, Milwaukee, and Atlanta got stuck with 23 back-to-backs which is brutal. Not surprisingly, but Cleveland's schedule went from one of the easiest to one of the hardest.

[Groundhog]

What utter BS. I wish the NBA could at least pretend that it tries to treat everyone equal. Not only do the superstars get superstar calls, but their entire team gets treated better.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I found this an interesting read, re: Scalabrine/Harangody, the Token Celtics Whiteguy.

freedarko.com: Luke Harangody, Boston and the Gathering Whiteness

I share the authors optimism about Harangody too, and I think he's spot on when he asks who is more likely to have the 8-10 year NBA career - Harangody, or 1st round pick Orton? Even before Orton stunk it up in the summer league, I'd say Harangody every time.

I'm not sure I agree with that slandering of the city though.

[jeff061]

I like Scalabrine because he is a funny and entertaining guy to listen to, doesn't mean I think he's much on the court. I don't intimately follow the Celts, but did he really have a fan base because of what he did in game?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I like Scalabrine because he is a funny and entertaining guy to listen to, doesn't mean I think he's much on the court. I don't intimately follow the Celts, but did he really have a fan base because of what he did in game?

Nah. Was more because he was funny and irrelevant. Kinda like how the backup qb on a football team.

that was a bullshit blog post by a POS.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I'm not sure I agree with that slandering of the city though.

+1 As bad a contract as it was, I actually sympathize with Brian Scalabrine. He's almost certainly one of the top 500 (call it 1,000 if you want) basketball players in the world - a 6'7 guy who can dunk and shoot 3's, yet a certain segment of fans and the media treat him as a glorified mascot, someone fans chanted for like the walk-on at the end of every college's bench. But it wasn't because of skin color, and overall, if the writer is more excited to see Luke Harangody in Boston than Shaquille O'Neal, it says more about him than about the city.

[Groundhog]

FWIW freedarko is a pretty darn good blog IMO. Their book from a few years ago was a great read:

Amazon.com: FreeDarko presents The Macrophenomenal Pro Basketball Almanac: Styles, Stats, and Stars in Today's Game (9781596915619): Bethlehem Shoals, Dr. Lawyer IndianChief, Silverbird 5000, Brown Recluse Esq., Big Baby Belafonte: Books

I also don't find much fault with this particular post, because yeah, Scalabrine got cheered because he sucked (comparatively), the same way walk-ons (and development players in our local league) get cheered for because they also suck (comparatively).

I actually think a lot of what he says about white stereotypes is true. Maybe using Scalabrine as the launching pad for that wasn't the best move though, but hey, it's his local team. Without getting too controversial, I actually wonder where a guy like Harangody, who was an absolutely outstanding college player, would have been drafted if he were African American.

[DeToxRox]

Darko's nickname in Detroit was the Human Victory Cigar because he only came in when we were up about 20 and there was a minute left.

That's your #2 overall pick folks.

[Groundhog]

I wonder if any guy has ever been projected as badly as Darko was. Prior to the draft he was made out to have serious scoring potential, a soft touch around the hoop, and decent range on his jumper. Did people scout the wrong player prior to the draft, because I don't think he EVER showed any of that. Having said that, I think if any other team had picked him, played him 25 minutes a game from day 1, he would have turned out to be a very different player.

[RainMaker]

There have been other odd projections. I know Tyson Chandler was projected to be a big who could play on the perimeter.

Nikoloz Tskitishvili was supposed to be he Russian Dirk Nowitzki and was absolutely abysmal.

[Groundhog]

Ahhh, forgot about Tskitishvili. Yeah, he was horrendous, though 2002 wasn't exactly a great draft year.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I wonder if any guy has ever been projected as badly as Darko was. Prior to the draft he was made out to have serious scoring potential, a soft touch around the hoop, and decent range on his jumper. Did people scout the wrong player prior to the draft, because I don't think he EVER showed any of that. Having said that, I think if any other team had picked him, played him 25 minutes a game from day 1, he would have turned out to be a very different player.

I agree with the last part. I love Larry Brown as a coach, but he was the wrong guy to have coaching Darko. The 2 year process of converting Darko into a center without playing time didn't exactly work out.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Chief Rum, your Clippers got the rough end of the scheduling stick. An 11-game road trip and a stretch of 17 of 20 away from L.A. All while the Lakers walk away with the easiest schedule in basketball.

Don't you guys have equal rights on Staples or do they pick dates first?

Lemme guess...around January-February or so?

This is an annual happening for all of the Staples Center tenants actually (although 11 games is the longest I have heard one of these scheduled).

The Grammies take over the Staples Center every year early in the year and the result is that the Lakers and Clippers (and NHL Kings) get annual "vacations" for a couple weeks. Why the Grammies need so long to set their party up, you got me.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Chief Rum, your Clippers got the rough end of the scheduling stick. An 11-game road trip and a stretch of 17 of 20 away from L.A. All while the Lakers walk away with the easiest schedule in basketball.

Don't you guys have equal rights on Staples or do they pick dates first?

Seeing as how they never play themselves, I guess it would be considered the easiest schedule

[Neon_Chaos]

I find it amusing that the two O'neals now playing for the Celtics in Boston are not Irish.

[MrBug708]

Chad Ford is reporting a 4-team deal...

Houston Trades: Ariza
Houston Gets: C. Lee

New Orleans Trades: Collison and Posey
New Orleans Gets: Ariza

New Jersey Trades: C. Lee
New Jersey Gets: Murphy

Indiana Trades: Murphy
Indiana Gets: Collison and Posey

[RainMaker]

Great deal for Indiana. Not sure I understand what Houston is doing.

[Ajaxab]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I wonder if any guy has ever been projected as badly as Darko was. Prior to the draft he was made out to have serious scoring potential, a soft touch around the hoop, and decent range on his jumper. Did people scout the wrong player prior to the draft, because I don't think he EVER showed any of that. Having said that, I think if any other team had picked him, played him 25 minutes a game from day 1, he would have turned out to be a very different player.

Could we put Kwame Brown in this category too? I'd need to check, but wasn't he a #1 overall pick? I guess he got some minutes at least which is more than can be said for Darko.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Ajaxab

Could we put Kwame Brown in this category too? I'd need to check, but wasn't he a #1 overall pick? I guess he got some minutes at least which is more than can be said for Darko.

If I remember right, Kwame Brown was #1 by default that year. There really wasn't a great player at the top of that draft.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Great deal for Indiana. Not sure I understand what Houston is doing.

Salary dump. Saves $10 million this year once you factor in the luxury tax.

I also disagree that Darko was the biggest bust ever. Getting picked over Carmelo and Bosh makes it look worse, but at least he's still in the NBA and getting minutes. There have been plenty of complete washouts.

[albionmoonlight]

dola:

There were some good players in that draft, but if you look at the top, it wasn't like Washington had a lot from which to pick: 2001 NBA Draft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[whomario]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Great deal for Indiana. Not sure I understand what Houston is doing.

the only explanation would be that they think Budinger can be not just good (which is relatively save to assume) but really good. And Lee is better than people give him credit for after that crappy year in NJ. But still that´s downgrading talent-wise and Battier isn´t getting any younger ...

Plus i thought Ariza improved a ton as the season went on, much more effort on defense and better shot selection on offense. Also one of the few guys on the team that showed at least some playmaking ability and in a team whose backcourt-starters are among the worst in that category that´s wort sth, Battier and Budinger also not good there (Battier can pass the heck out of the ball but can´t penetrate)

The one plus is that Lee can defend quicker/leaner 2 guards pretty well and Ariza just like Battier and Budinger is better defending 3s.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

dola:

There were some good players in that draft, but if you look at the top, it wasn't like Washington had a lot from which to pick: 2001 NBA Draft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I try and forget that draft. The year Chicago inexplicably traded away Elton Brand for the twin 18 year old stiffs.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

I try and forget that draft. The year Chicago inexplicably traded away Elton Brand for the twin 18 year old stiffs.

Didn't Chicago actually try first to trade Brand away for Kwame?

[stevew]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Great deal for Indiana. Not sure I understand what Houston is doing.

I think they offloaded an expensive chucker, and then saved themselves about 10 million dollars. Plus got an interesting young player. Big win for Houston here.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

If I remember right, Kwame Brown was #1 by default that year. There really wasn't a great player at the top of that draft.

There were some epic fails really

Brown-nuff said
Chandler-Okay, too injury prone though. Still a serviceable player
Gasol-Probably goes #1 if draft happened as attitudes changed, at the time would have been virtually impossible to be #1 pick though
curry-fat piece of shit
Richardson/Battier-both acceptable NBA talents
Eddie Griffin-dead
Diop-LOL
Rodney White-playing in china
joe johnson-great player


In the end, Multiple All Stars are Gasol, Joe Johnson, Gilbert Arenas, Tony Parker

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

I try and forget that draft. The year Chicago inexplicably traded away Elton Brand for the twin 18 year old stiffs.

Ladies and Gentleman.....Jerry Krause!

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by stevew

There were some epic fails really

Brown-nuff said
Chandler-Okay, too injury prone though. Still a serviceable player
Gasol-Probably goes #1 if draft happened as attitudes changed, at the time would have been virtually impossible to be #1 pick though
curry-fat piece of shit
Richardson/Battier-both acceptable NBA talents
Eddie Griffin-dead
Diop-LOL
Rodney White-playing in china
joe johnson-great player


In the end, Multiple All Stars are Gasol, Joe Johnson, Gilbert Arenas, Tony Parker

Has to be one of the most bizarre drafts in history. Was the height of the "take a high school kid" phenomenon that backfired in everyone's face. It wasn't great, but sneaky good when you look at it from top to bottom.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

I try and forget that draft. The year Chicago inexplicably traded away Elton Brand for the twin 18 year old stiffs.

Technically the Bulls traded Brand away for one 18-year-old stiff (Chandler). They are completely and wholely responsible for drafting Eddie Curry all by themselves.

[Groundhog]

Pacers made out like thieves. Collison looked pretty awesome last season. I guess New Orleans really, really, really wanted to get rid of Posey (and keep Paul happy).

Houston doesn't lose much defensively with Lee+Battier in the starting 5, and I think Lee will be a much more efficient scoring option than Ariza.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Technically the Bulls traded Brand away for one 18-year-old stiff (Chandler). They are completely and wholely responsible for drafting Eddie Curry all by themselves.

I long wonder which way the Bulls woulda gone in that draft (and where their fortunes would have gone) had they NOT traded Brand. And it long agonizes me.

And to go a step further. Bear in mind they ALSO had Brad Miller at that point, pre-All Star days. AND Ron Artest. That's one helluva young core with 20/20 hindsight (Artest's insanity put aside for a moment).

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by stevew

I think they offloaded an expensive chucker, and then saved themselves about 10 million dollars. Plus got an interesting young player. Big win for Houston here.

Yeah that's my read on the situation as well. Ariza was very overpaid, Houston gets under the luxury tax and picks up a pretty decent player in the deal. Everybody above seems to forget they picked up Kevin Martin, they aren't exclusively going with Budinger or Battier at the 3 next year either. Another great deal by Morey IMO, correcting a mistake he made last year (giving Ariza waaaay to much money as an overreaction to LA signing Artest)

[bhlloy]

DOLA - really interested to see if Collison can succeed outside of that system. If you are going to fall into a starting job in the NBA, replacing Chris Paul in an offense that is completely designed around him isn't a bad situation to fall into.

[LloydLungs]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Pacers made out like thieves. Collison looked pretty awesome last season. I guess New Orleans really, really, really wanted to get rid of Posey (and keep Paul happy).

I like the deal for the Hornets. Collison is a nice player, a legit NBA starter for the majority of teams (but not here). I don't think he's a star, though. He fills up a stat sheet, but that does include the turnover column. Plus he doesn't provide much defense. So for a PG that wasn't going to play much, we also unload a corpse and get a decent starting SF that can't shoot but will be the 4th scoring option here. And he seems like he could be a good fit with Paul, assuming Paul is the least bit interested.

The Hornets have a 6-foot PG, a 6-3 SG, a 6-8 PF and a 6-10 C. It's a badly undersized team that desperately needed some lengthy wing defense to help keep people out of the paint so that West and Okafor don't get exposed as badly as they did last season. I'm hoping that will be his biggest contribution here.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by stevew

Rodney White-playing in china

Jordan should never be able to evaluate talent for a NBA team again. Remember that the hot rumor leading up to the draft was that Jordan was in love with Rodney White and was trying like hell to find a partner to trade down with so he could grab White.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by LloydLungs

I like the deal for the Hornets. Collison is a nice player, a legit NBA starter for the majority of teams (but not here). I don't think he's a star, though. He fills up a stat sheet, but that does include the turnover column. Plus he doesn't provide much defense. So for a PG that wasn't going to play much, we also unload a corpse and get a decent starting SF that can't shoot but will be the 4th scoring option here. And he seems like he could be a good fit with Paul, assuming Paul is the least bit interested.

The Hornets have a 6-foot PG, a 6-3 SG, a 6-8 PF and a 6-10 C. It's a badly undersized team that desperately needed some lengthy wing defense to help keep people out of the paint so that West and Okafor don't get exposed as badly as they did last season. I'm hoping that will be his biggest contribution here.

Doesnt play defense, turns the ball over?!? What did the Hornets do to DC?!?

[whomario]

for the hornets it made tons of sense. With Paul healthy you can get maybe 15-20 minutes at most out of Collison (that´s 10 as a backup and a few as the SG against favourable matchups) plus they have Thornton who can have a similar effect scoring wise but is at least a bit closer to having actual 2-guard size.
So even if Collison turns out to be the better player (compared to Ariza) he wouldn´t be as valuable for the Hornets for at least the next 2 years.
And if Paul leaves in 2012 then Collison pretty likely would be able to demand big money when his rookie deal ends.

I still don´t really like the trade for the Rockets, but it´s not bad on 2nd look. Just though Ariza improved a lot over the year and was counting on a very good season in a slightly decreased role with more open looks and more energy to spend on defense.

[RainMaker]

The problem from the Hornets perspective is that Ariza isn't really good.

[whomario]

Ariza playing with a proper Point Guard should put up 15-18 PPG with increased Shooting Percentage. He imo really has a ton of natural talent. Don´t forget that it was the first time he was playing major minutes and had the ball for more than spot up situations and on fast breaks. Considering that i thought he showed a lot of promise last year and as said improved as the season went on.
The only question is if he´s really willing to play a role suited for him. If he is, then he´s going to offer good outside shooting (shot 41% from deep on 5 attempts post all star break with no PG and no inside presence), an ability to penetrate and pass the ball (4+ APG and 2 TOPG the last 3 months), play good defense and rebound the ball some.

I don´t know, i really think that´s going to be worth a lot more than a scoring PG playing behind a Top 3 PG in the league.

But as said, i´m a fan and might have clouded judgement here.

[Groundhog]

The problem with New Orleans IMO is that they are pretty awful depth-wise. I like David West, but I don't think CP3-D.West is going to win you any titles. I think what I would've done is traded CP3 pre-draft, brought in a top-5 draft pick and hopefully one other solid starter via that trade, and assume that Collison isn't just a flash in the pan and that Thornton continues to develop.

[LloydLungs]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

The problem with New Orleans IMO is that they are pretty awful depth-wise.

Assuming we're able to find a decent PG backup, I'm kind of liking our depth from 1-3. Problem is muscle in the paint, both starters and backups.

[Groundhog]

I think 2 and 3 are OK, and Thornton could be a lot better than OK based on what I saw of him last year, and I think Pondexter should at least be as good as Wright was at the backup 3. 4 and 5 though are abysmal outside of West, unless Okafor suddenly regains his rookie season form.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Florida Highway Patrol: Udonis Haslem cited after Miami-Dade traffic stop - ESPN

MIAMI -- Miami Heat forward Udonis Haslem was arrested Sunday for possession of marijuana following a traffic stop in Miami-Dade County.

Haslem, 30, was stopped around 3:05 p.m. going eastbound on the Gratigny Parkway because of speeding, Florida Highway Patrol spokesman Sgt. Mark Wysocky said. Haslem was also charged with illegal window tint, Wysocky said.

A passenger in Haslem's 2008 Mercedes, Antwain Fleming, was also charged with possession. Both were being transported to Miami-Dade County Jail for processing. Corrections officials said neither had been added to the county system as of early Sunday evening.

"During the traffic stop the trooper smelled an odor of marijuana from within the vehicle," Wysocky wrote in a press release. "After the subsequent search, Mr. Haslem and Mr. Fleming were placed under arrest."

Both Haslem's agent, Henry Thomas, and Heat officials were collecting information and did not have an immediate comment.

Haslem has spent all seven of his NBA seasons with the Heat, and the South Florida native signed a new five-year contract to stay with the team last month.

[Groundhog]

Looks like Beasley was a real bad role model.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Looks like Beasley was a real bad role model.

Yeah... the kid was the bad role model, I'm sure.

[Groundhog]

I was being sarcastic.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

I was being sarcastic.

Fair enough, I didn't think to have my sarcasto-meter on.

[kingfc22]

Police: Stephenson hit girlfriend's head on step

NEW YORK -- Indiana Pacers draft pick Lance Stephenson, after pushing his girlfriend down a flight of stairs, grabbed her and hit her head on the bottom step, prosecutors said Monday.
A judge released Stephenson, 19, without bail late Sunday night after his arrest on assault, menacing and harassment charges. Prosecutors had asked for $7,500 bail.
Authorities say the confrontation occurred around 5 a.m. Sunday when the victim, Jasmine Williams, was returning home to her apartment building with two friends. Witnesses said Stephenson was waiting for her and yelled, "Are you kidding me?" before pushing her down the stairs.
A criminal complaint provided Monday by the Brooklyn district attorney's office said that as Williams lay at the bottom of the stairs, Stephenson picked up her head and slammed it on the bottom step.
When police arrived, Stephenson told them the woman had fallen down the stairs, prosecutors said. The complaint said Williams suffered head and back wounds, and possible damage to her neck.
Pacers president Larry Bird has said he was aware of the situation. Stephenson attorney Alberto Ebanks didn't return phone and e-mail messages Monday.
Stephenson was one of the nation's top high school prospects. He played one season at Cincinnati before applying for early entry to the NBA draft.
His next court date is scheduled for Oct. 19, according to New York-area media reports.
Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

[Galaril]

So, it sounds like Carmello will not be staying with Denver. If I was Denver I would trade him as soon as possible preferably atop draft pick in next years draft. This is better than getting nothing for the guy even if it is only .60 cents on the dollar. They will be shit without him but it also would mean probably a lottery pick next year. If they keep him based solely on emotions with the slim hope of changing his mind they will still not win a championship with him.