The Trump Presidency – 2016

[miked]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

No bill will be perfect, and there's a lot of good stuff in there. But IMO


** I don't think this is the right time to be worrying about educational institutions. Get through the pandemic first, then concern yourselves with them. If they have to shut down for a year then so be it, we have bigger problems at the moment.

That's pretty silly considering we are doing most of the medical research and rely on students for much of it. Not to mention they are probably some of the biggest employers in their states.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Well, the democratic House bill is out:

Sahil Kapur on Twitter: "House Democrats just introduced their $2.5 trillion coronavirus stimulus package.

The 1,404 page bill: https://t.co/yBZCJH8IJH

The one-page summary 👇… https://t.co/SMhyvJsPsE"

Finally. Pass it tomorrow and then real negotiations can happen. Dems arguing point by point against a GOP bill was a losing game.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by miked

That's pretty silly considering we are doing most of the medical research and rely on students for much of it. Not to mention they are probably some of the biggest employers in their states.

Target it to the medical programs specifically so they can stay open, but not a general all-purpose grant. As long as the coronavirus is around and a major threat, it's dangerous to the public health to have people in the close proximity that classes not designed for remote learning requires. That far outweighs the employment factor.

[Butter]

It's a good starting point, built for negotiation. Several places to give things up to get things from the GOP. However, they've always been better at playing the game. We'll see what happens.

[stevew]

Nationwide early voting and mail in voting is something I hope is included.

[whomario]

Aaron Rupar on Twitter: "Trump interjects to ask Dr. Birx a loaded question meant to demean reporters. Birx tries to play it cool. Bizarre stuff.… https://t.co/7WvfoPZy2E"

The guy is just insane.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Which is so strange since the hardest hit will be a large part of their base.

Anecdotally working with a large portion of his elderly base, I can say they are not taking this very seriously. Most are still convinced this is some liberal plot to get Trump.

[Comey]

Trump talking about the virus in past tense, when yesterday was the worst day so far, says everything anyone needs to know about how he's handling this.

[QuikSand]

...and his approval for handling the CV situation is now north of 50%. There are people out there who don't like Trump who believe he's doing well at this

[Bee]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

...and his approval for handling the CV situation is now north of 50%. There are people out there who don't like Trump who believe he's doing well at this

Maybe they are grading on a curve

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

...and his approval for handling the CV situation is now north of 50%. There are people out there who don't like Trump who believe he's doing well at this

I have disliked Trump for a very long time and I have tried to be objective with him in this current situation. He makes it really hard. That video clip above demonstrates one example. Any opinion that is not in praise of him is the enemy.

We shouldn't be surprised by anything anymore, but he keeps giving me reasons to not like him. In yesterday's briefing he complimented the governors of Nebraska and Idaho. He said they were doing a very good job containing the virus, unlike the governor of New York. Nebraska and Idaho have Repulican governors. Andrew Cuomo is not.

People eat that shit up and they aren't smart enough to consider that New York has a lot more people, more people want to visit New York, there are more chances for spread.

He just a jackass for saying shit like that.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

...and his approval for handling the CV situation is now north of 50%. There are people out there who don't like Trump who believe he's doing well at this

The only way that I can make any sense of this whatsoever is that whenever there's a crisis people rally around the President. So being north of 50% is insane when you think of it in terms of people thinking he is doing a good job.

But it is at least understandable if you believe that the baseline number for a normal president at the very beginning of a crisis would be 90%, and so being just above 50% is actually reflective of high disapproval.

I don't know if that's the case, but I cannot think of another reason his numbers here are higher than his 38% unshakable base.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

He just a jackass

fixed

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

fixed

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

...and his approval for handling the CV situation is now north of 50%. There are people out there who don't like Trump who believe he's doing well at this

amazing what happens when you give out free money, or at least have it in the works

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I don't know if that's the case, but I cannot think of another reason his numbers here are higher than his 38% unshakable base.

There are people not part of his base who think the coronavirus has been blown out of proportion, we shouldn't be listening to the health experts and shutting things down, more people die from a lot of other things than have died so far from the virus, etc. That's where I think at least some of it comes from.

[NobodyHere]

Am I allowed to hate both parties in all this?

I don't like Trump's slush fund but why are Democrats pushing to forgive student loans? WTF does that have to do with a virus? It's just attempted vote buying for the coming election.

[ISiddiqui]

It's an economic stimulus. Forgiving $10k in student loans (I'm guessing from federal loans) would help significantly - especially if people's individual payments are substantial are they are underemployed at this time.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

It's an economic stimulus. Forgiving $10k in student loans (I'm guessing from federal loans) would help significantly - especially if people's individual payments are substantial are they are underemployed at this time.

I don't mind a moratortium on payments and interest for those who lost their jobs due to the virus. But why should people with the means to pay back their loans get them forgiven? Shouldn't the money be focused on the newly unemployed?

This is just the Democrats trying to buy votes on the backs of taxpayers.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I don't mind a moratortium on payments and interest for those who lost their jobs due to the virus. But why should people with the means to pay back their loans get them forgiven? Shouldn't the money be focused on the newly unemployed?

This is just the Democrats trying to buy votes on the backs of taxpayers.

This is an economic stimulus not simply a targeted bailout - that's why everyone is getting $1000 and then will have claw backs during tax time later for those who make more. So trying to cipher and filter who has 'lost their job' or is underemployed is going to take a whole Hell of a lot of time.

Objecting to paying $10k of student loan payments to boost the economy seems really misguided to me when billions are going to companies. Sounds like a "corporations matter, people don't" sort of mentality to be honest.

And let me be clear, I do think some things in the House bill don't boost the economy and probably shouldn't be there. Forgiving some student loan debt is something I think 100% needs to be in this stimulus bill.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

This is an economic stimulus not simply a targeted bailout - that's why everyone is getting $1000 and then will have claw backs during tax time later for those who make more. So trying to cipher and filter who has 'lost their job' or is underemployed is going to take a whole Hell of a lot of time.

Why not just makes those checks bigger and scrap the student loan forgiveness? Or why not go after car loans so Americans can go out any buy new cars? How about home loans, do we forgive those too?

People with college degrees tend to be among the more affluent in society. Why do they need a stimulus more than other groups?

Democrats are just trying to buy the youth vote.

Objecting to paying $10k of student loan payments to boost the economy seems really misguided to me when billions are going to companies. Sounds like a "corporations matter, people don't" sort of mentality to be honest.

I'm allowed to object to more than one thing at once.

And let me be clear, I do think some things in the House bill don't boost the economy and probably shouldn't be there. Forgiving some student loan debt is something I think 100% needs to be in this stimulus bill.

I'm guessing you have some student loans.

[ISiddiqui]

Yes, as do the vast majority of people I know have student loans in every field - from attorneys to doctors to teachers to waiters to pizza delivery people. A good portion of people laid off have student loans. The last bankruptcy bill made it impossible to discharge student loan debt - that makes it far different than car and home loans (which can be discharged). Not to mention that a good portion of student loan debt is issued through government backed loans - making it easier to forgive part of it. If your home and auto loan are held by the federal government, maybe we can have that discussion as well.

You want a real economic stimulus, forgiving some part of student loan debt would help quite significantly. Probably far more than a one time payment of $2000. I don't think we can do a half-ass stimulus like the one we did in 2008/9 if you really want the economy to recover from a potential Depression.

[ISiddiqui]

Some more info:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/23/call...-outbreak.html

Americans are more burdened today by the loans they take out for their education than credit card or auto debt, with the outstanding student loan balance in the country toppling $1.7 trillion. Nearly a third of borrowers are behind on their payments and 1.2 million people went into default in 2019, a 14% increase from the year prior.

“As policymakers configure a response to the economic damage of the coronavirus, history should serve as a warning: Student loan borrowers were already defaulting every 26 seconds in 2019,” said Seth Frotman, the former student loan ombudsman at the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and executive director of the Student Borrower Protection Center, an advocacy group.

The graph shows student loans overdue by more than 90 days are far greater than home, auto, or even credit card late payments.

Student loan payments and defaults are a greater issue than other payments.

This notion that only rich folks have student loans needs to be permanently retired.

[NobodyHere]

It still seems like an odd target for a bill that's suppose to combat unique economic situation caused by the virus.

[ISiddiqui]

Once again, it's an economic stimulus bill: to help those who have been directly affected as well as turbocharging the economy (which prevents more people from being economically affected). Economists last week were saying we may hit 30% unemployment in the 2nd Q. We are going to need far more than some direct stimulus to those who have been affected so far in order to prevent a Depression.

[cartman]

apparently Trump has substituted Dr. Fauci with Dr. Oz.

[JPhillips]

lol Birx said Singapore is doing well because they followed the President's guidelines.

You can serve Trump or you can serve the truth.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by cartman

apparently Trump has substituted Dr. Fauci with Dr. Oz.

Are you serious?

[molson]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Sounds like a "corporations matter, people don't" sort of mentality to be honest.

Arguing that the stimulus needs to target the economy generally rather than the people impacted can be used as an argument for corporate bailouts.

It's not surprising they can't get anything done when there's fundamental differences in ways to look at this.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Are you serious?

Sadly, yes. He had Dr. Oz with him at today's town hall.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by cartman

Sadly, yes. He had Dr. Oz with him at today's town hall.

If he turns to Doogie Howser next then he officially has my support.

[Brian Swartz]

So question on Trump's brilliant plan to have everyone back at work by Easter. Let's say he decides to do that; forget for the moment about what the national situation in terms of the virus is at that point.

How does he go about it? I mean, he can't undeclare states of emergencies for states - that's the responsibility and purview of the governors. Does he threaten to withhold federal funding to them if they don't release restrictions? How might this actually play out if he still wants it to happen but the governors don't?

[ISiddiqui]

Tbf, he said he'd love to have everyone back to work by Easter. So maybe it's a hope - perhaps at most he'd have the federal government come back.

[Brian Swartz]

That's true, but I mean if you look at the balance of his comments:

Originally Posted by POTUS

We lose much more than that to automobile accidents. We don't call up the automobile companies and say stop making cars. We have to get back to work.

Cure worse than the disease, talking about the possibility to destroying the country if it's shut down for too long, etc.

Whether that's Easter or some other similar time, at least for the last couple days what he's saying and what most governors are saying is not aligned. I'm just curious what options he really has for making this happen, because at a certain point there will be rising sentiment on that side of things. I think it's starting to happen already.

[ISiddiqui]

Well I'm not saying his arguments aren't dumb. But I don't know if the CDC is going to be on board with Easter. He can just send the federal workforce back to the office, and then try to urge Governors to change their policies.

[Jas_lov]

He has no idea and is just saying shit to make himself look better to his base. A month ago he said 15 cases would go to 0.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

So question on Trump's brilliant plan to have everyone back at work by Easter. Let's say he decides to do that; forget for the moment about what the national situation in terms of the virus is at that point.

How does he go about it? I mean, he can't undeclare states of emergencies for states - that's the responsibility and purview of the governors. Does he threaten to withhold federal funding to them if they don't release restrictions? How might this actually play out if he still wants it to happen but the governors don't?

Would he call on businesses to reopen in defiance of state and local restrictions and dare the Governors to arrest/fine them, hoping they'll stand down? I mean, I could maybe see some of the Governors giving in to him, but Cuomo is going to tell Trump to fuck himself.

[albionmoonlight]

I'd love it for shit to get back to normal.

Sadly, I think that events will overtake him, and by Easter he'll be saying that he never said that things would be back to normal by Easter.

[QuikSand]

He sees this as the way out from blame, right? He announces everything is fine, and after that if you’re pissed off about being at home or about losing your job, it’s Cuomo’s fault. I don’t think he cares about people falling seriously ill or dying, unless it’s clearly a problem for his re-election.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Arles;3271297 (From other thread)

I think Trump is just doing it to prop up the markets, but I can't believe he thinks we will be "back to normal" by Easter. Best case is maybe we start transitioning and lowering the social distancing (maybe up to 25 again) sometime in May. But that's even a stretch.

You could have stopped at "I can't believe he thinks." Have we come across anything that indicates he cares about anything but instant gratification? That he'd be willing to gain 1 now, even if he lost 100 later?

[SirFozzie]

Here's the other thing that I think will delay. One of the major things holding back the economy is not that the United States are locked down, but most industrialized nations in North America and Europe are going to be locked down, and probably for a lot longer then we will be. Sure we can have everyone back to work and going forward, but international exports are going to be dead for some time to come. Which means prices will crash as supply way out paces demand (like for Oil, now) and we risk further dropping back.

[Arles]

Yeah, I think your response was much more measured in the other thread - but that's a bit like winning the tallest midget contest with Turmp

It's clear all Trump cares about is the economy, consumer confidence and his legacy. If you take everything he does with that backdrop - it makes a lot more sense. Still, he needs to atleast put up a facade of caring about people sometimes.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Here's the other thing that I think will delay. One of the major things holding back the economy is not that the United States are locked down, but most industrialized nations in North America and Europe are going to be locked down, and probably for a lot longer then we will be. Sure we can have everyone back to work and going forward, but international exports are going to be dead for some time to come. Which means prices will crash as supply way out paces demand (like for Oil, now) and we risk further dropping back.

I think one of the big aspects of social distancing that I'm not sure people knew is the impact to the services/hospitality/food industry. I think it's almost a bigger deal to smaller bars/hair stylists/masseuse/construction companies than to big corporations. A lot of the people suffering are bartenders, salons, servers, small business service providers and retail stores. Just raising it from 10 to 25 again would really help those people out. I still think it's a while, but that should be the first step (not business as usual).

[SirFozzie]

I am trying to be good here, really I am. I think some of it is that I'm scared about the whole situation. I mean, there's a really good chance that I will be 99% stuck in these four walls for the next 2-3 months, I don't have any income, and as such I might not get one of those stimulii checks, while my disability case is set to be heard in june, are you going to lay odds that this pandemic won't screw up the system for months and months going forward?

So, to hear comments like the ones made by trump and the TX Lt Governor piss make me angry. We're the "necessary sacrifice".

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Sure we can have everyone back to work and going forward, but international exports are going to be dead for some time to come. Which means prices will crash as supply way out paces demand (like for Oil, now) and we risk further dropping back.

Not only that, but the service and airline sectors just to name a couple were already in big trouble just from the virus without any shutdown happening. Those might never go back to where they were, but they sure don't have a chance of doing it before there's a vaccine.

That's why I think a depression is a foregone conclusion. Globally. The only question is how do we get through it in the minimum time with minimal pain and recover as quick as possible. Anything better than that is IMO a pipe dream.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Arles

I think one of the big aspects of social distancing that I'm not sure people knew is the impact to the services/hospitality/food industry. I think it's almost a bigger deal to smaller bars/hair stylists/masseuse/construction companies than to big corporations. A lot of the people suffering are bartenders, salons, servers, small business service providers and retail stores. Just raising it from 10 to 25 again would really help those people out. I still think it's a while, but that should be the first step (not business as usual).

I think that there's a real difficult conversation to be had about how to come back from this and how to balance risk and reward.

And I think that President Trump has so poisoned the well with his new tack of making it a Team MAGA thing to pretend that there is nothing wrong that it will be impossible to have that conversation.

[spleen1015]

He's already laying the ground work for how he is going to handle this.

He is going to 'open' things back up and when people keep dying, he is going to blame the governors. He's already said a few times that Cuomo has mismanaged NY. He'll prop up low death Republican led states and shit on the high death Democratic led states.

Cuomo screwed you NY and I fixed the economy!

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by cartman

apparently Trump has substituted Dr. Fauci with Dr. Oz.

Bet he wishes he could use the Wizard of Oz.

[albionmoonlight]

"How Trump's Handling the Virus" poll numbers keep going up.

[Brian Swartz]

One for the Elon Musk haters:

Virus Skeptic Musk Donates Ventilators in California Crisis