The Trump Presidency – 2016

[RainMaker]

Bowling Green vs. Ohio State - Game Summary - September 3, 2016 - ESPN

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Bowling Green vs. Ohio State - Game Summary - September 3, 2016 - ESPN

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by bbgunn

Bowling Green Massacre? Seriously?

I wonder why they didn't cover it...

Jesus, she makes Sarah Palin look like a member of MENSA

[digamma]

I actually think Conway is really freaking smart. She just has no qualms about being completely dishonest if it helps her advance her position.

[Neuqua]

Agreed.

It was after watching Conway a couple times on TV, and seeing how she could potentially come across to folks who want to believe her, that I said out loud that Trump may actually have a chance at winning this thing.

She's good at her job.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by digamma

I actually think Conway is really freaking smart. She just has no qualms about being completely dishonest if it helps her advance her position.

She's incredibly clever - she lies through her teeth knowing the target audience won't care and often she wants the lies to be discredited as they're distracting from what the other hand is doing (dismantling Dodd Frank and De Voss at present).

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

She's incredibly clever - she lies through her teeth knowing the target audience won't care and often she wants the lies to be discredited as they're distracting from what the other hand is doing (dismantling Dodd Frank and De Voss at present).

Don't tell the angry liberals on the board that. They're still absolutely positive that these people don't have a brain.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Don't tell the angry liberals on the board that. They're still absolutely positive that these people don't have a brain.

Huh? I would be far less worried if I thought these people didn't have a brain.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Don't tell the angry liberals on the board that. They're still absolutely positive that these people don't have a brain.

It's what separates Chaotic Neutral from Chaotic Evil on the D&D Alignment chart

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Don't tell the angry liberals on the board that. They're still absolutely positive that these people don't have a brain.

Yeah . . . I can call the current GOP leaders lots of things, but I think that they are incredibly smart and amazing at politics.

But if it makes you feel better to be wrong about incorrect things about libburls are "absolutely positive" about, then go ahead. It's almost the weekend. Enjoy yourself.

[SirFozzie]

I think they're many things.

Hypocrites (then again, you probably have to do six hypocritical things before lunch to be a politician)

Completely amoral.

Heartless assholes

The very definition of the money-changers that Jesus kicked out of the temple.

But not people who don't have a brain.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Yeah . . . I can call the current GOP leaders lots of things, but I think that they are incredibly smart and amazing at politics.

But if it makes you feel better to be wrong about incorrect things about libburls are "absolutely positive" about, then go ahead. It's almost the weekend. Enjoy yourself.

You're not an angry liberal, so my statement remains correct.

[CrimsonFox]

I'm kind of feeling like we are witnessing Zapp Brannigan's advice for what to say to your date. "Here's my book of pickup lines. Say as many as you can as fast as you can." There seems to be a book of "How to insult other countries so that they will go to war with you" book that Trump and Bannon are using the same process for.

Double Date-Futurama - Video Clip | Comedy Central

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

I think they're many things.

Hypocrites (then again, you probably have to do six hypocritical things before lunch to be a politician)

Completely amoral.

Heartless assholes

The very definition of the money-changers that Jesus kicked out of the temple.

But not people who don't have a brain.

This is where we have to be very careful and draw a very, very fine line. Everyone who supports Trump isn't one, two or all of those things. The left is not filled with violent people who would rather resort to physical violence than let a controversial speaker from the right speak.

If we continue down that path, things are going to get brutal for all of us. I've been watching a ton of the hard left/hard right speakers the last few weeks on youtube. TRhe thing that is most striking to me is how much each side wants to paint the other as horrible people. They both do it from the attitude that "I AM RIGHT" so they feel they can say or do anything they want.

I was just told (and correctly so because I think I got it wrong) by members of this board that 18 year olds could change when they took science courses. I'm going to guess they don't change when the prof walks into the room and says "If you believe in creationism, you are a moron who wastes oxygen for the rest of us"

Some people ARE all of those things. But not all. In fact, not most. I don't care how much the hate flows through you, watch the terminology.

Or don't. Maybe you feel, like I did earlier in the thread, that they've already made up their minds and someone who is wrong on something is a heartless asshole or stupid. That's fine. Just understand by saying that we are exactly 0.000% closer to having a better society.

Writing this is really for me by the way, not you. I see myself making the same mistakes and I am working hard to make sure I don't do it anymore. I believe that attitude is a HUGE part of what caused the democrats to lose the rust belt and is a massive reason we have Trump in office. Maybe I'm wrong on that. . . . but it isn't going to hurt me or anyone else to be more careful of the language I use when describing people who disagree with my views.

[RainMaker]

She probably falls in the middle. She isn't some complete moron that some people describe. She's also not playing 3-D chess with the world either.

People like that have existed forever. Alex Jones types that understand there is an audience that is quite gullible and stupid. Just because they cater to them doesn't make them stupid themselves.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by TroyF

This is where we have to be very careful and draw a very, very fine line. Everyone who supports Trump isn't one, two or all of those things. The left is not filled with violent people who would rather resort to physical violence than let a controversial speaker from the right speak.

If we continue down that path, things are going to get brutal for all of us. I've been watching a ton of the hard left/hard right speakers the last few weeks on youtube. TRhe thing that is most striking to me is how much each side wants to paint the other as horrible people. They both do it from the attitude that "I AM RIGHT" so they feel they can say or do anything they want.

I was just told (and correctly so because I think I got it wrong) by members of this board that 18 year olds could change when they took science courses. I'm going to guess they don't change when the prof walks into the room and says "If you believe in creationism, you are a moron who wastes oxygen for the rest of us"

Some people ARE all of those things. But not all. In fact, not most. I don't care how much the hate flows through you, watch the terminology.

Or don't. Maybe you feel, like I did earlier in the thread, that they've already made up their minds and someone who is wrong on something is a heartless asshole or stupid. That's fine. Just understand by saying that we are exactly 0.000% closer to having a better society.

Writing this is really for me by the way, not you. I see myself making the same mistakes and I am working hard to make sure I don't do it anymore. I believe that attitude is a HUGE part of what caused the democrats to lose the rust belt and is a massive reason we have Trump in office. Maybe I'm wrong on that. . . . but it isn't going to hurt me or anyone else to be more careful of the language I use when describing people who disagree with my views.

I meant the GOP politicians, not the followers btw,

[stevew]

Was kind of wondering if Conway had accidentally leaked something she received in a briefing. As in perhaps there actually was a substantially foiled plot there(bowling Green) and we gained intelligence about it thru a channel we didn't want to burn?

[Easy Mac]

Sean, can you confirm or deny that 100k Visas were revoked, per reports.

Huh, news to me, next question.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by stevew

Was kind of wondering if Conway had accidentally leaked something she received in a briefing. As in perhaps there actually was a substantially foiled plot there(bowling Green) and we gained intelligence about it thru a channel we didn't want to burn?

From a vox article:

Where Conway is coming from (I think)
In 2011, two Iraqi refugees, Waad Ramadan Alwan and Mohanad Shareef Hammadi, were arrested in Bowling Green, Kentucky, on federal terrorism charges. Allegedly, they had been plotting to send money and weapons back home to Iraqi insurgents.

During the investigation, the FBI found something worrying: fingerprints from Alwan on a roadside bomb in Iraq. This suggested there was a very specific flaw in America’s refugee screening process: Databases of fingerprints from Iraqi militants were not well-integrated into the broader State Department–run refugee admissions process. As a result, the Obama administration initiated a new review of all roughly 57,000 Iraqi refugees who had been recently admitted into the United States.

This process was manpower- and time-intensive, and resulted in a significant slowdown in Iraqi refugee admissions to the United States for six months. But it was not a ban, as Conway, Trump, and many in the conservative media claimed: Refugees from Iraq entered the United States in all six months.

and a link to the source for that:

FBI — Two Iraqi Nationals Indicted on Federal Terrorism Charges in Kentucky

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

All politicians seriously need a refresher on proper IT protocol. There's a ton of holes in the IT up on the Hill. Even though this involved House Dems, I have little doubt that both sides of the aisle are equally negligent.

Police probing IT contractors for House Dems over ‘unauthorized’ computer access | Fox News

[RainMaker]

Interesting take on Russia and Europe.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/01/30...dy-are-at-war/

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by stevew

Was kind of wondering if Conway had accidentally leaked something she received in a briefing. As in perhaps there actually was a substantially foiled plot there(bowling Green) and we gained intelligence about it thru a channel we didn't want to burn?

what briefing? they said they didn't go to briefings.

[sabotai]

Big Boy. #PresidentBannon pic.twitter.com/bR06v4TJeD

— Pia Guerra (@PiaGuerra) January 30, 2017

This is a thing that I found to be funny.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by stevew

Was kind of wondering if Conway had accidentally leaked something she received in a briefing. As in perhaps there actually was a substantially foiled plot there(bowling Green) and we gained intelligence about it thru a channel we didn't want to burn?

If memory serves, the Iraqi dude whose arrest prompted the Obama Administration to re-examine the Iraqis in the country (because his fingerprints were found on IEDs in Iraq) was arrested in Bowling Green.

He and his companion were charged with supporting terror plots in Iraq.

Iraqi + Obama Administration re-examination + location = whip the base into BOWLING GREEN MASSACRE TERRISTS TERRISTS SUPPORT THE BAN

People can be convinced they remember things they don't actually, and it's not terribly hard to do.

Shit, I'm 36 years old and my brain is absolutely convinced the iPod was a thing when I was in the 2nd grade (as in, it shows up on the regular when I dream about my primary school days).

Factually, I know my brain is fullashit.

My brain is a little more recalcitrant to accept that.

Folks remembering Muslims cheering in the streets of New Jersey on 9/11 and "the Bowling Green Massacre" are, admittedly, more extreme examples of the phenomenon, but there you are.

[sabotai]

https://www.bowlinggreenmassacrefund.com/

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by TroyF

This is where we have to be very careful and draw a very, very fine line. Everyone who supports Trump isn't one, two or all of those things. The left is not filled with violent people who would rather resort to physical violence than let a controversial speaker from the right speak.

If we continue down that path, things are going to get brutal for all of us. I've been watching a ton of the hard left/hard right speakers the last few weeks on youtube. TRhe thing that is most striking to me is how much each side wants to paint the other as horrible people. They both do it from the attitude that "I AM RIGHT" so they feel they can say or do anything they want.

I was just told (and correctly so because I think I got it wrong) by members of this board that 18 year olds could change when they took science courses. I'm going to guess they don't change when the prof walks into the room and says "If you believe in creationism, you are a moron who wastes oxygen for the rest of us"

Some people ARE all of those things. But not all. In fact, not most. I don't care how much the hate flows through you, watch the terminology.

Or don't. Maybe you feel, like I did earlier in the thread, that they've already made up their minds and someone who is wrong on something is a heartless asshole or stupid. That's fine. Just understand by saying that we are exactly 0.000% closer to having a better society.

Writing this is really for me by the way, not you. I see myself making the same mistakes and I am working hard to make sure I don't do it anymore. I believe that attitude is a HUGE part of what caused the democrats to lose the rust belt and is a massive reason we have Trump in office. Maybe I'm wrong on that. . . . but it isn't going to hurt me or anyone else to be more careful of the language I use when describing people who disagree with my views.

Yeah, I think this is a great post. I don't think personally anyone is ever going to get me to not be completely horrified at the way the Trump administration is going, but I'm trying not to have this visceral reaction to anything that I read or hear and actually consider the source before tearing into something.

A good example would be reading a headline yesterday that "Trump administration vetoes Obama bill to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill" and my blood pressure immediately goes through the roof - but then you read a couple of articles from different places and it turns out it's very likely a shittily written piece of legislation that is opposed by the NRA and the ACLU and was crammed in at the end of Obama's term with the expectation that he'd have a Democratic president to carry it forward. Pretty sure I still disagree with the decision, but at least you can have a debate about it. Rather than immediately going to "what the fuck are these morons doing" which shuts down any chance of a conversation at all.

Sadly I don't see any way we're backing off the precipice of anything that doesn't come from my side is a piece of shit and if you aren't on my side you are complete scum, and it's not just in the US either. World feels like it's heading down a dangerous path again.

[whomario]

Am i the only one that finds it inherently wrong that supposedly binding contracts between countries or between countries and people can just be overturned on the drop of the hat just because there is a change in leadership ? I mean, imagine this happened at lower levels/in industry.

At the very least there should have to be a sort of "notice period" (or is there one that i missed ?)

(yes, i realize a Visa is not a contract, but it is close enough as an analogy ...)

If i buy a ticket to a concert and the organizing firm/arena management changes, my ticket does not suddenly become null and void without repayment. If two firms reach an agreement and the ownership changes, new ownership still has to honor any agreements in place or re-negotiate.

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

All politicians seriously need a refresher on proper IT protocol. There's a ton of holes in the IT up on the Hill. Even though this involved House Dems, I have little doubt that both sides of the aisle are equally negligent.

Police probing IT contractors for House Dems over ‘unauthorized’ computer access | Fox News

I know for a fact that a member of the german "Bundestag" (kind of like the Congress) routinely forgot his written-down list of passwords lying around on his desk and was insanely ill-equiped in that area in general (a friend of mine worked in his office). And that guy was one of the younger members ...

I wouldn´t be shocked if Trump was using the same password for his Twitter than he does for official devices (just going to assume they are password protected) and also has his password saved on all his devices

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

A good example would be reading a headline yesterday that "Trump administration vetoes Obama bill to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill" and my blood pressure immediately goes through the roof - but then you read a couple of articles from different places and it turns out it's very likely a shittily written piece of legislation that is opposed by the NRA and the ACLU and was crammed in at the end of Obama's term with the expectation that he'd have a Democratic president to carry it forward. Pretty sure I still disagree with the decision, but at least you can have a debate about it. Rather than immediately going to "what the fuck are these morons doing" which shuts down any chance of a conversation at all.

It's simply a regulation that says the Social Security Administration would report those who are collecting disability benefits for severe mental disorders to the FBI background check system. That way their name would come up when purchasing a gun.

Basically if you are deemed so mentally ill that you cannot handle your own financial affairs, you are temporarily denied a gun. Whether you agree with it or not it's not shoddily put together. Just a regulation.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by whomario

I wouldn´t be shocked if Trump was using the same password for his Twitter than he does for official devices (just going to assume they are password protected) and also has his password saved on all his devices

I don't know if there's been an update on this but he was still using a Galaxy S3 not too long ago. That'd be a much bigger concern for me than password protection. Hacking an S3 is ridiculously easy.

[JPhillips]

Trump has made his empire by welshing out of contracts and daring people to do something about it. We shouldn't be surprised when he does the same in office.

[CrescentMoonie]

Some interesting thoughts from Dave Rubin about classic vs modern liberalism plays out in regards to the reaction to Trump.

The Left is No Longer Liberal

[bbgunn]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

Some interesting thoughts from Dave Rubin about classic vs modern liberalism plays out in regards to the reaction to Trump.

The Left is No Longer Liberal

That is awesome. I find myself agreeing a lot with what he says. I may need to learn a bit more about this Rubin character.

[JPhillips]

The regressive left, as I call them, should stop labeling people.

[whomario]

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-...gration-order/

The opinion of this so-called judge, which essentially takes law-enforcement away from our country, is ridiculous and will be overturned!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) 4. Februar 2017

[CrescentMoonie]

The Rise of Partisanship in the US House of Representatives

An interesting use of big data to visualize both when the drift apart from working together like adults happened and which members still kept trying. It certainly makes the current presidential situation seem inevitable, and also dispels the myth that things have always been this toxic.

The positioning of Ron Paul in 2005 and 2007 also furthers my belief that my views, which I would say are somewhere between Reagan conservative and sensible libertarianism, are fairly close to classic liberalism.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

The Rise of Partisanship in the US House of Representatives

An interesting use of big data to visualize both when the drift apart from working together like adults happened and which members still kept trying. It certainly makes the current presidential situation seem inevitable, and also dispels the myth that things have always been this toxic.

The positioning of Ron Paul in 2005 and 2007 also furthers my belief that my views, which I would say are somewhere between Reagan conservative and sensible libertarianism, are fairly close to classic liberalism.

Wow, that´s a pretty amazing project.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Don't tell the angry liberals on the board that. They're still absolutely positive that these people don't have a brain.

You can have a brain and still be stupid, it's called common sense. She really isn't distracting anybody paying attention.

[jeff061]

Who's paying attention?

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by jeff061

Who's paying attention?

Touche

[panerd]

So with today's overturn...

1. Trumps' followers can blame liberal judges for making us unsafe.
2. If a terror attack happens now it is the liberal judges' fault.

Maybe Trump and/or his team aren't as dumb as some think?

[jeff061]

You can twist anything to look genius, it's entertaining seeing the mental acrobats people in this thread pull. Trumps an idiot and none of these actions are strokes of genius, they are strokes of belligerence and short sited thinking. I'm watching my dog attack a stuff animal, I think she may have an IQ point or 2 on Trump.

I don't think his team consists of mental midgets like Trump, they just leave me pining for the days when reasonable people like Dick Cheney ran the country. What I don't know is if the disaster we have witnessed thus far is a product of Trump's stupidty(while ignoring his advisors) or the flat out extemism of his team.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by jeff061

You can twist anything to look genius, it's entertaining seeing the mental acrobats people in this thread pull. Trumps an idiot and none of these actions are strokes of genius, they are strokes of belligerence and short sited thinking. I'm watching my dog attack a stuff animal, I think she may have an IQ point or 2 on Trump.

I don't think his team consists of mental midgets like Trump, they just leave me pining for the days when reasonable people like Dick Cheney ran the country. What I don't know is if the disaster we have witnessed thus far is a product of Trump's stupidty(while ignoring his advisors) or the flat out extemism of his team.

Hey I'm not spinning for Trump at all but I'm also not so blinded by hate for the guy that I think everything he does is pure ignorance/racism. The guy just won not only the GOP primary but the presidential election. There are a lot of people that aspire to do both and do neither. The question you have to ask yourself...

So everyone on FOFC and facebook/social media sees right through the holes in Trump's administration's plans but there aren't any guys on his entire team that are able to do the same thinking as my 19 year old cousin and 13-year old niece? You may find his methods disgusting and underhanded but I would not be so sure they are just stupidity and extreme right wing madness. Maybe they knew exactly what kind of unloseable situation they set themselves up for with their immigration order last week?

EDIT: And I know its real easy to rag on the guy I agree he is a dickhead and narcissist. But if you really think he has no intelligence and anyone in the world can build a real estate empire and become a billionaire president as long as they start with some money than I'm sure there are more than a handful of examples who can prove you wrong. (Mitt Romney, Steve Forbes, John McCain, Ross Perot, John Kerry...)

[JPhillips]

Well, none of them had the Russians on their side.

If there's a major terrorist attack it would be blamed on liberals anyway, so this doesn't really change anything.

[Jas_lov]

The judge was a GWB appointee

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

The judge was a GWB appointee

Let's not get into the details shall we.

[CrescentMoonie]

Yep, Bush appointee who was approved 99-0.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Well, none of them had the Russians on their side.

If there's a major terrorist attack it would be blamed on liberals anyway, so this doesn't really change anything.

on the Russia joke.

I agree on the blame thing but I also think this ban was all politics. Trump is masterful at playing to his base and makes no apologies about it. Not policies I support or want but just like The Wire I have to respect his game. I think the people that want him to be some unintelligent imbecile that gets impeached in two years are going to suffer the same disappointment as those who thought George W Bush was over his head, uneducated, and on the way out in 2002. (And likely many of them are the same people)

[larrymcg421]

So he's instituted a controversial and hastily rolled out refugee ban on the off chance that a liberal judge would overturn it and there'd be a terrorist attack by someone from one of the seven countries in the ban? I don't think he's dumb, but if his plan is what you claim, then he's not only incredibly dumb, but insanely fucking evil.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

So he's instituted a controversial and hastily rolled out refugee ban on the off chance that a liberal judge would overturn it and there'd be a terrorist attack by someone from one of the seven countries in the ban? I don't think he's dumb, but if his plan is what you claim, then he's not only incredibly dumb, but insanely fucking evil.

No I don't think he is banking on a terror attack at all. I think his team and him came up with a plan that has three parts...

1) gives the base the red meat they desire with the campaign promise of a Muslim ban
2) knew that it would probably not fly and thus can rail on liberal courts and not protecting America
3) ace in the hole if something bad happens, not their fault

Contrast that with Obama and health care or many other issues. He does the more practical and fair thing of attempting to compromise and in turns really pisses off the GOP voters and loses a lot of his base. Suppose he signed an executive order on single payer health care... now he has solidified his base and could always blame the republicans for upending his proposal.

I don't think it's right or practical governing but also don't think it's just because trump has the IQ of jeff061's dog either.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by panerd

No I don't think he is banking on a terror attack at all. I think his team and him came up with a plan that has three parts...

1) gives the base the red meat they desire with the campaign promise of a Muslim ban
2) knew that it would probably not fly and thus can rail on liberal courts and not protecting America
3) ace in the hole if something bad happens, not their fault

Contrast that with Obama and health care or many other issues. He does the more practical and fair thing of attempting to compromise and in turns really pisses off the GOP voters and loses a lot of his base. Suppose he signed an executive order on single payer health care... now he has solidified his base and could always blame the republicans for upending his proposal.

I don't think it's right or practical governing but also don't think it's just because trump has the IQ of jeff061's dog either.

You can't just Executive Order whatever you want. Trump learned that when he found out he can't just erase the ACA.

Dems can still blame Republicans if they get rid of the ACA without putting something better in its place. That's why the repeal ACA hasn't gained much traction yet.