Werewolf 40,000: The Horus Heresy CHAOS DEFEATED; MUTANTS SURVIVE

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by saldana

i knew that...i was dicking with you the whole time...i would have been more surprised if you werent pisses.


as far as grey goes, he vouched for bullet, who came up clean....and as far as i am concerned, he is #1 on my suspect list....i am just waiting to vote until i hear from fouts and brian about what happened to them last night, since i saw both of them involved with someone else....one of whom i do know, the other i dont.

I dont know what happened to mustang, and i have to go, but yesterday before he died, he and grey were playing off each other. They were def. setting each other up to make comments and to look good. It says hes a ghost, which i dont fully understand yet(though i think i have an idea), but if it means hes bad i think that casts a bad light on grey as well. Hopefully someone can present the cases on everyone while im gone, but from what ive read grey is by far the best target today.

[Swaggs]

Blade, do you have a vote today?

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

What a cruel irony...

Blade returns from the dead and is making sense to me, but it is probably going to fall upon deaf ears.

I wont be around much today, so i cant be of too much help. I just see more of an argument against him then you, tough i havent read everything so maybe im missing ket evidence.

I trust 1 person entirely, and i thank them for helping me come back to life. Everyone else is going to be analyzed pretty heavily later today.

I really have to go, someone please help me catch up a bit with a summary or something. THANKS!!

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Blade, do you have a vote today?

Yes, i am back to my full self. I can vote, protect, the whole shebang. I wont vote until later when im better informed, but wanted to get this in before the bandwagon started

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Yes, i am back to my full self. I can vote, protect, the whole shebang. I wont vote until later when im better informed, but wanted to get this in before the bandwagon started

Well, I fear the bandwagon has already taken off, but I am hoping that maybe Fouts will help me out a bit, and now maybe you can see some of the bigger picture and help others see it, too.

[saldana]

blade, i will try to get a summary type post up for you around 7 eastern.

[saldana]

dola, i am out for work, be back on between 6 and 7

[Swaggs]

Alright fellas... I'm out for awhile.

Should be back before the deadline.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by saldana

as far as grey goes, he vouched for bullet, who came up clean....and as far as i am concerned, he is #1 on my suspect list....i am just waiting to vote until i hear from fouts and brian about what happened to them last night, since i saw both of them involved with someone else....one of whom i do know, the other i dont.

Nothing happened to me last night. If anyone viewed me, it must have been remotely. I didn't see anyone, talk to anyone, or go anywhere.

Mustang, were you watching me sleep again? We've talked about that.

[Abe Sargent]

An hour during the day without a post? Wow

[Mustang]

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

An hour during the day without a post? Wow

There seem to be a bunch of people not around today. Kind of sad.

[path12]

Always people around when I check in. Of course they're all dead, but still......

[Fouts]

Grey visited me last night to verify I'm loyal. It appeared he left satisfied. It convinces him that I'm non-choas, but 'm not sure how that makes him non-chaos. I can see how people he visits are convinced though.

Swaggs, what am I supposed to be helping with?

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Grey visited me last night to verify I'm loyal. It appeared he left satisfied. It convinces him that I'm non-choas, but 'm not sure how that makes him non-chaos. I can see how people he visits are convinced though.

Swaggs, what am I supposed to be helping with?

You didn't get the feeling that you'd be in big trouble if you weren't Chaos? Not that the description of your encounter would say that specifically, but you didn't feel that way?

[Fouts]

Yeah, he seed a bit intimidating, but nothing I saw confirms him to be non-chaos.

[bulletsponge]

is Blade a zombie or some other undead?

[Fouts]

Well I reread Swaggs story, and I don't know anything about a family spear. Sorry. You said night 4 that you are turning into a vampire, which sounds bad for us.

I'm afraid the only two targets we have are swaggs and saldana. Everyone is convinced of Swaggs' guilt, but nobody will scan him.

[Fouts]

Brian, answer this; Why has there been no attempt on Grey, but 2 attempts on Alan?

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Yeah, he seed a bit intimidating, but nothing I saw confirms him to be non-chaos.

Wow, you are a tough critic (though possibly smarter than the rest of us).

Grey got past the bodyguard to interrogate GE, he left me feeling that the only reason I was alive was that I was loyal, he cleared Bullet before we found out he was loyal, and he intimidated you with his interrogation.

About the only thing we can't confirm was his statement that he converted Mustang. All of that adds up to trust for me.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Brian, answer this; Why has there been no attempt on Grey, but 2 attempts on Alan?

That is a good question. I would guess it is because there have been so many people who refuse to believe Grey and the Chaos don't want to take that lynching option away from us, but it could be that he is safe because he is Chaos.

I just think that if we are going to have any chance at all, we have to get some clues as to who is good and who is bad. We can't be guessing randomly through the whole game, so I'm taking Grey's interrogation as being one of those clues. I was in the camp who believed both Grey and Alan. In fact, I was going to vote for you yesterday until the big reveals came out. Now I put you at the same level of trust that I give to Grey. My list of untrusted is getting smaller and smaller.

[Greyroofoo]

This is my offical sucking up to Blade post. I dunno how he was brought back, by who, or for what purpose.

I just know that blade is my only hope for survival tonight.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by BrianD

That is a good question. I would guess it is because there have been so many people who refuse to believe Grey and the Chaos don't want to take that lynching option away from us, but it could be that he is safe because he is Chaos.

I just think that if we are going to have any chance at all, we have to get some clues as to who is good and who is bad. We can't be guessing randomly through the whole game, so I'm taking Grey's interrogation as being one of those clues. I was in the camp who believed both Grey and Alan. In fact, I was going to vote for you yesterday until the big reveals came out. Now I put you at the same level of trust that I give to Grey. My list of untrusted is getting smaller and smaller.

So you are buying that Mustang was converted? Hard pill for me to swallow.

I don't like Swaggs story, but he hasn't been scanned. King says saldana is a mutant, which is what I thought all along.

vote saldana

[Fouts]

I guess I don't see the game balance where twothree, alan, grey, and king are all human. Although, all of this has only brought us one confirmed chaos kill. We got a crap load of seers, but most of them suck.

[Greyroofoo]

Originally Posted by Saldana's Role;

The Paternoval Envoy of the Navigators is the elected representative of the Navigator's guild and therefore is de facto in charge of intra-Imperium commerce and trade. Whilst not technically under the Imperium's control, the Navigator's guild and the Imperium generally have the same goals at heart, namely stability, so have established a working relationship, the Paternoval Envoy being the liason officer.

aren't the bolded words basically king's reasoning?

[Fouts]

Mustang, why won't you give us more chaos members. The rules say that you guys can freely PM with each other.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Fouts

So you are buying that Mustang was converted? Hard pill for me to swallow.

I don't like Swaggs story, but he hasn't been scanned. King says saldana is a mutant, which is what I thought all along.

vote saldana

Normally I wouldn't, but I've been trusting Grey for this whole game, and it would seem silly to stop the trust now. Honestly, he has been pretty much dictating my game-play since he viewed me. He was the one thing I thought I "knew" for sure. If it turns out that he was playing me, I'll lynch him first in every other game I see him in.

A vote for Saldana is not a bad thing since the mutants need to go too. I'd like to get in one of the two votes needed for Swaggs first, but I won't be sad if I get outvoted and Saldana goes. I am a little curious what he thinks he saw me do last night (or what he thinks was done to me), but he might just be setting me up for something.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

I dont know what happened to mustang, and i have to go, but yesterday before he died, he and grey were playing off each other. They were def. setting each other up to make comments and to look good. It says hes a ghost, which i dont fully understand yet(though i think i have an idea), but if it means hes bad i think that casts a bad light on grey as well. Hopefully someone can present the cases on everyone while im gone, but from what ive read grey is by far the best target today.

I am right with you blade. It looked setup to me, too, but without proof that Mustang was chaos when he died it will be hard to vote for him. I think its crappy of Tangle to not give us Mustangs affiliation.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Fouts

I guess I don't see the game balance where twothree, alan, grey, and king are all human. Although, all of this has only brought us one confirmed chaos kill. We got a crap load of seers, but most of them suck.

I would say 4 crappy seers balances well with 1 good one.

I'm not sure they are that crappy though. They all give us some information, and we should be able to piece them together. Twothree gave us Chaos/non-Chaos. King gives us their roles. Alan and Grey seemed to give us loyal/non-loyal, but that seems a little odd and redundant.

If we put viewings of twothree together with either Grey or Alan, we should get normal/abnormal and loyal/non-loyal. Normal+anything is human, abnormal+loyal=mutant, abnormal=non-loyal=chaos. Maybe Alan and Grey had the same role so we could be sure to match some things up before they both died...though it would be nice to double up on twothree then too.

I'm not sure what to say about Saldana since his "visions" were totally unhelpful until the Mustang situation.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Fouts

I am right with you blade. It looked setup to me, too, but without proof that Mustang was chaos when he died it will be hard to vote for him. I think its crappy of Tangle to not give us Mustangs affiliation.

Too bad we didn't get King's view of him. It would have been nice to know that he would go poof before we killed him.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by BrianD

I would say 4 crappy seers balances well with 1 good one.

I'm not sure they are that crappy though. They all give us some information, and we should be able to piece them together. Twothree gave us Chaos/non-Chaos. King gives us their roles. Alan and Grey seemed to give us loyal/non-loyal, but that seems a little odd and redundant.

If we put viewings of twothree together with either Grey or Alan, we should get normal/abnormal and loyal/non-loyal. Normal+anything is human, abnormal+loyal=mutant, abnormal=non-loyal=chaos. Maybe Alan and Grey had the same role so we could be sure to match some things up before they both died...though it would be nice to double up on twothree then too.

I'm not sure what to say about Saldana since his "visions" were totally unhelpful until the Mustang situation.

Good post, and what you say about the seers matching up makes alot of sense. Alan and Grey are the only copies of each other? Hmm.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Good post, and what you say about the seers matching up makes alot of sense. Alan and Grey are the only copies of each other? Hmm.

The only ones that we know about at least. I suppose there could be others. I'm really curious who is able to raise the dead. Any thoughts on that one? Any thoughts on the goodness/badness of Blade? I'd hate to just kill him again right away, but who knows why he was raised?

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by BrianD

The only ones that we know about at least. I suppose there could be others. I'm really curious who is able to raise the dead. Any thoughts on that one? Any thoughts on the goodness/badness of Blade? I'd hate to just kill him again right away, but who knows why he was raised?

Thank you...i was waiting for someone to step in a defend grey, as well as cast doubt on me. You have filled both roles wonderfully. I was not raised from the dead, i am not an undead like bullet suggested. I am back in a different form, yes, but all this new form does is allow me to continue my mission.

Fouts, you wont vote for grey, but will you vote for brian?

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Ive got classes for the next 3-4 hours, and will need time to really read, not skim like when i was dead, the last 20 or so pages...i will say this much:

How is grey soo trusted? He didnt get past my guards because he was good, as some reasoned, he got past because his position in our government is 2nd only to the emporer. GE is still alive, which doesnt make sense. They kill fozzie, the mutant hunter, but leave the one guy who can hunt them? I call BS. I might be missing some key evidence, but right now im still stunned grey is alive and trusted. The fact GE is alive in my mind casts a terrible light on grey, not some good one. Can anyone tell me why grey isnt dead, and further why he is becoming trusted(i saw this in the reasoning for why people were voting swaggs, which i have no idea about, havent read that far)

Forgot to reply to this one.

I have been untrusting of Grey for quite awhile, but nobody will go with me on it. I wanted to lynch Grey during the Bullet/St.Cronin tie, but couldn't get the votes and I had to choose Bullet over St.Cronin. Grey just has a lot of info for somebody checking for loyal/non-loyal. Grey worked hard to keep Bullet alive, but how could he know Bullet wasn't a mutant? Although, Grey had zero info on St.Cronin, other than path locked him up every night, but that is ok info to lynch cronin? I don't buy it, Grey knows too much.

It looks like they will lynch Swaggs twice, because they have the backing. I might have had a problem with this, but Swaggs hasn't explained how Mustang knows that he needs to be killed twice.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Thank you...i was waiting for someone to step in a defend grey, as well as cast doubt on me. You have filled both roles wonderfully. I was not raised from the dead, i am not an undead like bullet suggested. I am back in a different form, yes, but all this new form does is allow me to continue my mission.

Fouts, you wont vote for grey, but will you vote for brian?

Chill dude, I didn't say you were bad, I'm just saying you are an unknown. I have no intentions to vote for you until we learn more about you. I would really love for someone to admit to helping you come back, but you aren't on my target short-list.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Forgot to reply to this one.

I have been untrusting of Grey for quite awhile, but nobody will go with me on it. I wanted to lynch Grey during the Bullet/St.Cronin tie, but couldn't get the votes and I had to choose Bullet over St.Cronin. Grey just has a lot of info for somebody checking for loyal/non-loyal. Grey worked hard to keep Bullet alive, but how could he know Bullet wasn't a mutant? Although, Grey had zero info on St.Cronin, other than path locked him up every night, but that is ok info to lynch cronin? I don't buy it, Grey knows too much.

It looks like they will lynch Swaggs twice, because they have the backing. I might have had a problem with this, but Swaggs hasn't explained how Mustang knows that he needs to be killed twice.

I'm curious why you think Grey viewed you and then told the world of your loyalty. Do you think he was just trying to gain your trust?

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Forgot to reply to this one.

I have been untrusting of Grey for quite awhile, but nobody will go with me on it. I wanted to lynch Grey during the Bullet/St.Cronin tie, but couldn't get the votes and I had to choose Bullet over St.Cronin. Grey just has a lot of info for somebody checking for loyal/non-loyal. Grey worked hard to keep Bullet alive, but how could he know Bullet wasn't a mutant? Although, Grey had zero info on St.Cronin, other than path locked him up every night, but that is ok info to lynch cronin? I don't buy it, Grey knows too much.

It looks like they will lynch Swaggs twice, because they have the backing. I might have had a problem with this, but Swaggs hasn't explained how Mustang knows that he needs to be killed twice.

The 2nd day, the day i died, grey confirmed my story and claimed they discussed my alignment as being good. He then aids in getting my lynched. So far, besides trying to save the assasin(which can be a good or bad power if used wrong) he has done everything in his power to lead us down the wrong path. The fact as well that somehow his trusted group, which includes the biggest threat to the chaos, isnt getting killed off should raise eyebrows.

Saldana has said hes with me, as is swaggs...if you join, we have a solid voting block on grey

[kingfc22]

Okay. I have a 30 minute break right now before I have to get back to work.

I investigated GE last night because he hadn't given us any new info lately and I thought he might be sandbagging. He is part of the imperium and can spot a Chaos member from a mile away.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Thank you...i was waiting for someone to step in a defend grey, as well as cast doubt on me. You have filled both roles wonderfully. I was not raised from the dead, i am not an undead like bullet suggested. I am back in a different form, yes, but all this new form does is allow me to continue my mission.

Fouts, you wont vote for grey, but will you vote for brian?

I have serious doubt about grey, but I'm not sure where you are coming from. What role do you think Brian has? Keep in mind, Anxiety and Mustang were chaos. How many chaos can there be?

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Okay. I have a 30 minute break right now before I have to get back to work.

I investigated GE last night because he hadn't given us any new info lately and I thought he might be sandbagging. He is part of the imperium and can spot a Chaos member from a mile away.

Yet hasnt.....right now grey, brian, king, and GE are my suspect list....gotta go work #s, one second

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Chill dude, I didn't say you were bad, I'm just saying you are an unknown. I have no intentions to vote for you until we learn more about you. I would really love for someone to admit to helping you come back, but you aren't on my target short-list.

And for the record, I didn't vote for you the first time.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Fouts

I have serious doubt about grey, but I'm not sure where you are coming from. What role do you think Brian has? Keep in mind, Anxiety and Mustang were chaos. How many chaos can there be?

We dont know mustang was chaos, we just assume. All 4 primarch have different roles and powers, and mustangs very well may have been just this, that after his death he can still contribute at night. I only count anxiety as a bad guy. I need to review his posts, 1 sec

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by BrianD

I'm curious why you think Grey viewed you and then told the world of your loyalty. Do you think he was just trying to gain your trust?

Yes, that is what I think.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Chill dude, I didn't say you were bad, I'm just saying you are an unknown. I have no intentions to vote for you until we learn more about you. I would really love for someone to admit to helping you come back, but you aren't on my target short-list.

Id love if they didnt. They have my trust, and possibly my protection tonight if i think its a repeatable power(not likely, ill likely guard someone with higher value)...im have 4 days of suspicion all built up, bear with me for a bit

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Okay. I have a 30 minute break right now before I have to get back to work.

I investigated GE last night because he hadn't given us any new info lately and I thought he might be sandbagging. He is part of the imperium and can spot a Chaos member from a mile away.

That doesn't make sense, GE hasn't voted for a Chaos member yet.

[Fouts]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Yet hasnt.....right now grey, brian, king, and GE are my suspect list....gotta go work #s, one second

Dude, where were you 2 days ago. Oh wait, we killed you.

GE has been non-existent, so that might explain his not helping us. How many chaos do you think there are? We started with 18.

What about your return from death? Care to explain that?

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by BrianD

And for the record, I didn't vote for you the first time.

I didnt accuse you of it...in regards to the first vote, the one who stood out to me(besides alan and saldana) was grey. He confirmed my story, then turned on me. It was a highly irregular move.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

The 2nd day, the day i died, grey confirmed my story and claimed they discussed my alignment as being good. He then aids in getting my lynched.

This is an interesting point, and scary if true. Didn't Grey interrogate GE on the first night? I've been through my own interrogation with him, and there was no actual communication. Fouts, I'm assuming you agree with this?

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Fouts

Dude, where were you 2 days ago. Oh wait, we killed you.

GE has been non-existent, so that might explain his not helping us. How many chaos do you think there are? We started with 18.

What about your return from death? Care to explain that?

If he wants to share, hes welcome to. When i revealed info, it got me killed...im not going to get him killed as well. If he wishes to share, ill support his claims. But i know who brought me back, how he did it, and when he ordered it.

[kingfc22]

I think it is almost too convienent that grey "converted" mustang and then "cleared" fouts last night. They may have been working together all along. If mustang knew his death would leave to ghost form from the beginning then it is a great move for grey to say he converted him.