The Obama Presidency - 2008 & 2012

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Mysterious Pro-Secession Billboard Appears In Missouri | ThinkProgress

There have been a bunch of truther ads on the trains here. I hope we continue to see weird ads appear.

[Ronnie Dobbs3]

Crazy to think a second reconstruction could solve some problems?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

Crazy to think a second reconstruction could solve some problems?

Did you not learn your lesson the first time?

[lungs]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

Crazy to think a second reconstruction could solve some problems?

I'd be more inclined to say a second Sherman's March would do much more good.

[sterlingice]

And to think this thread had been pretty dead for the last couple of months!

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

And to think this thread had been pretty dead for the last couple of months!

Eh, it'll take better bait than that to get anyone to play would be my guess.

[sterlingice]

I was thinking more about how the debt ceiling/budget negotiations got people in here and back to the old games pretty quickly

SI

[JPhillips]

[DaddyTorgo]

Hehe - I need to play more of that this weekend.

[SirFozzie]

Here's some chutzpah for you.. on the one year anniversary of the Sandy Hook Massacre, a group of gun lobbyists want to celebrate "Guns Save Lives" Day:

http://blogs.seattletimes.com/politi...ave-lives-day/

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Nice. Good to see they are talking. Wonder what Cruz will do next.

Cruz does seem to have support from a "core" group. Not sure if the straw poll is valid ... its got some credible names on it but don't know who Ben Carson is.

Cruz the overwhelming favorite in conservative straw poll - NBC Politics

Though his approval rating may be slipping nationally, Texas Sen. Ted Cruz received an overwhelming nod of confidence from conservative activists on Saturday with a decisive victory in the Values Voter straw poll.

The Texas firebrand received a whopping 42 percent of the vote at the gathering of social conservatives, garnering more than triple the amount of support of second place finisher, conservative activists Dr. Ben Carson, who got 13 percent. Former presidential candidate Rick Santorum came in a close third, also receiving 13 percent of the vote. Sens. Rand Paul and Marco Rubio rounded out the top five, receiving six and five percent of support, respectively.

Tony Perkins, head of the Family Research Council President that sponsored the summit, said Cruz was “very grateful to know that there are Americans across the country who are standing with him as he stands for your values in Washington, D.C."
:
As a result, the poll found, the number of Americans who view the Texas Republican negatively has more than doubled since June, from 12 percent to 28 percent.

The poll also found just 24 percent of respondents have a favorable opinion about the GOP, and only 21 percent have a favorable view of the Tea Party, which are both at all-time lows in the history of poll.

[Edward64]

Kudo's to Obama for his 2 wins and also trying at Somalia.

al-Libi is on a boat being interrogated instead of Gitmo. I think they should fly him to Bagram like the other guy.

Libyan terror suspect Anas al-Libi being interrogated at sea - CBS News

Abu Anas al-Libi -- a 49-year-old Libyan -- is charged in the 1998 bombings of the U.S. embassies in Tanzania and Kenya that killed 224 people, including 12 Americans.

U.S. commandos captured him over the weekend in Libya. The government wants al-Libi to face justice, but the hope is he will also provide invaluable information about al Qaeda.

Al-Libi is being held aboard the USS San Antonio. Sources say al-Libi, who was part of Osama bin Laden's inner circle in the 1990s, is being questioned by a group of specially-trained investigators. The "High Value Detainee Interrogation Group" is pressing al-Libi for intelligence about the al Qaeda network and potential attack plans.

Al-Libi, who spent years as a foreign operative for al Qaeda, was captured just after dawn Saturday on a street in his homeland of Libya.

I don't get Karzai. He must have a lot of confidence in Afghanistan being able to stand on its own if the US pulls-out. If I was him, I would be signing whatever needed to be signed and doing what the US needs to stay. Good chance he ends up like the other PM right after the USSR pulled out.

Senior Pakistan Taliban commander captured in Afghanistan | Fox News

Deputy spokesperson Marie Harf told reporters Friday that U.S. forces nabbed Taliban terrorist leader Latif Mehsud in a recent military operation. Harf said Mehsud served as a senior deputy and trusted confidant of Pakistan Taliban leader Hakimullah Mehsud.
:
:
A spokesman for President Hamid Karzai told the Washington Post that a senior Taliban commander was captured in Logar as he was being driven to a facility operated by the intelligence service for questioning. The spokesman, Aimal Faizi, said the commander, who he did not name, was then taken to an American detention facility in Bagram.

There was no immediate comment from Karzai's office on the report.

The detention apparently angered Karzai and may have contributed to a series of emotional outbursts this week alleging that the U.S. and NATO inflicted suffering on the Afghan people and repeatedly violated its sovereignty.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Cruz does seem to have support from a "core" group. Not sure if the straw poll is valid ... its got some credible names on it but don't know who Ben Carson is.

Cruz the overwhelming favorite in conservative straw poll - NBC Politics

Dr. Ben Carson is a surgeon who said of ObamaCare-"It's the worst thing to happen in this nation since slavery."

Ben Carson: Obamacare worst thing to happen to the U.S. since slavery - Washington Times

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Dr. Ben Carson is a surgeon who said of ObamaCare-"It's the worst thing to happen in this nation since slavery."

Ben Carson: Obamacare worst thing to happen to the U.S. since slavery - Washington Times

Well that was stupid of him, saying was bad is not going to make him popular with deep south conservatives.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Dr. Ben Carson is a surgeon who said of ObamaCare-"It's the worst thing to happen in this nation since slavery."

Ben Carson: Obamacare worst thing to happen to the U.S. since slavery - Washington Times

Which complements Tavis Smiley's statement below I guess.
Tavis Smiley: 'Black People Will Have Lost Ground in Every Single Economic Indicator' Under Obama | NewsBusters

SEAN HANNITY, HOST: My last question to you. You often do these seminars with the state of black America. I've watched them on C-Span and different channels, right?

TAVIS SMILEY: Right.

HANNITY: Are black Americans better off five years into the Obama presidency?

SMILEY: Let me answer your question very forthrightly. No, they are not. The data is going to indicate sadly that when the Obama administration is over, black people will have lost ground in every single leading economic indicator category. On that regard, the president ought to be held responsible.

[JPhillips]

Wonder if the press would spend as much time on a conference that chose Bernie Sanders and Sean Penn 1 and 2?

[JPhillips]

Joe the not-a-plumber comes right out and says it:

America Needs a White Republican President
Admit it. You want a white Republican president again.

Now before you start feeling like you’re a racist, understand you are not.

Read more at America Needs a White Republican President

[DaddyTorgo]

Um whoa - is that for real and not a parody?

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Joe the not-a-plumber comes right out and says it:

Actually if you check the link to the full article at the bottom, it takes you to the TheBlackSphere.net. There it shows the article was written by Kevin Jackson, who is black. Not nice of the Plumber there to make it look like he wrote it.

And too bad for him and the original writer because the next President will likely be an equally if not more Liberal Democrat and a woman on top of that if Hillary runs.

[Edward64]

I do think the recession was a primer for the decline e.g. just because the recession officially ended in 2009 doesn't mean the Financial crisis during the Bush years didn't continue to linger and impact black Americans.

However, it has been long enough and it is happening in Obama's second watch. I do think in the next couple years (assuming we don't go into another crisis) the numbers will get better for black Americans.

America Needs a White Republican President

Real Politics reports Obama’s statistics as follows:

Median family income for black Americans has declined a whopping 10.9 percent during the Obama administration…This decline does not include losses suffered during the financial crisis and the recession that followed, but it instead measures declines since June 2009, when the recession officially ended.

That’s not the only bad news for African-Americans. The poverty rate for blacks is now 25.8 percent. The black labor force participation rate, which rose throughout the 1980s and 1990s, has declined for the past decade and quite sharply under Obama to 61.4 percent. The black unemployment rate, according to Pew Research, stands at 13.4 percent. Among black, male, high school dropouts, PBS’ Paul Salmon reports, the unemployment rate is a staggering 95 percent.

[tarcone]

I saw a billboard in St. Louis. It said: "If Aliens Land Remember The 1st Commandment."

Kind of on par with the secession billboard.

[SirFozzie]

So,the thought was that the Republicans were looking to trade cancelling out the second round of sequester cuts to get entitlement reform, but since they've overplayed their hand here, and taken such a kicking in the polls, the Democrats new goal is to only use the first year sequester cuts as a short term, and look to raise the spending in the negotiations.

edit: New tweets from Costa:

per aide, McConnell's chief fight now is to protect BCA spending levels set in '11. McConnell's fear is that Dems, if they get some more momentum/House Rs stall, will req change to BCA levels, and he's trying to prevent that. top Sen GOP aide: "Dems want to spend $80 billion more next year than the BCA allows". McConnell's end-'13 goal, per his broader circle, was to only trade sequester relief for entmt ref (Medicare age raise, CPI, etc). But the shutdown/CR fight + debt limit showdown pretty much spoiled (for now) McConnell's (and Ryan's) plan for seq/entmt trades. So McConnell working not just to solve current impasse, but to protect BCA levels--his chief leverage pt for future fiscal talks. Big pic: McConnell World fears if Ds get seq relief now, that card will be hard to play in future, makes revenue the chief trade option and McConnell is never going to "go there" on revenue, same goes for most Rs. so they want to save seq relief for smthg other than CR/DL. Sen Rs griping that House's stumbles/Cruz's defund push didn't achieve repeal or delay or anything-except now putting BCA levels at risk

So in short, the Senate Republicans are furious that the defund/delay Don Quixote tactics by the House have not only failed to acheive anything, but emboldened a unified Democrat caucus to try to push for an end to the second year of sequestration (and perhaps even a rollback to pre-2011 numbers). The Republicans have to get something out, because they're standing on the cliff edge, and are trying to find a way to step away from the cliff that doesn't result in either the Tea Party or the Democrats pushing them off the cliff.

[EagleFan]

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising Americas debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our governments reckless fiscal policies. Increasing Americas debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

Senator Barack Obama, 2006

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

The Republicans have to get something out, because they're standing on the cliff edge, and are trying to find a way to step away from the cliff that doesn't result in either the Tea Party or the Democrats pushing them off the cliff.

Here's a thought ... let's just leave it shut the fuck down. Til midterm elections if need be.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising Americas debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our governments reckless fiscal policies. Increasing Americas debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

Senator Barack Obama, 2006

But everyone knows if they raise the debt limit this year that it was George Bush's fault. You can't fault Obama.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Here's a thought ... let's just leave it shut the fuck down. Til midterm elections if need be.

And that would be the end of the Republican party AND the conservative movement.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

And that would be the end of the Republican party AND the conservative movement.

Doubtful. Not in more than a small handful of districts I imagine.

And it might be even less as people figure out just how much shit the gov't handles (and spends money on) that it really ought to be out of.

[Edward64]

GOP House vs GOP Senate.

T-4.

Government shutdown debate grates on Congress members’ moods - The Washington Post

Most vocal in their bitterness were House Republicans, who voted midday and then left Washington until Monday, sputtering as they went that President Obama had halted talks with their leaders in favor of negotiating with Senate Republicans — and even angrier that their Senate colleagues seemed receptive to the president’s overture.

“They’re trying to cut the House out, and trying to jam us with the Senate. We’re not going to roll over and take that,” said House Budget Chairman Paul Ryan (R-Wis.).

Rep. Aaron Schock (R-Ill.), not generally considered one of the House’s bomb-throwers, advised Republicans in the Senate to “grow a backbone and stand up with the House Republicans, like they said they were going to.”

Senate Republicans were likewise fed up with their House colleagues, for refusing to accept that they will not win major changes to the federal health-care law and that their party’s leverage only decreases as the shutdown drags and default approaches.

“Our friends in the House apparently can’t muster the votes to send something over here to open up the government, so it’s dysfunction at every level,” said Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.).

Several rounds of past budget fights have ended with Senate Republicans forging agreement with Senate Democrats and then shoving it over to the House to be adopted on a bipartisan vote, over the objections of the GOP’s most conservative members.

Republicans in both chambers appeared to be bracing for a repeat of that outcome, which would solve the current crisis but only deepen mistrust between Republicans in the Senate and in the House.

[Edward64]

Hopefully some positive news before tomorrow morning.

Last Hope? Still Stuck And Running Out Of Time, Reid And McConnell Meet On Debt Ceiling

Despite that, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) and other Democratic leaders sought to soothe financial markets by saying that Reid and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) began talking Saturday morning.
:
:
An aide to Reid confirmed the two leaders met at McConnell's request, and were joined by Sens. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) and Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.). Senate Democratic leaders also met with President Barack Obama at the White House Saturday afternoon.
:
:
With less than five full days before the United States treads into default territory, right now the only path forward lies in the talks with McConnell and Reid.

McConnell has been at the center of resolving two previous fiscal showdowns -- over the 2011 payroll tax and the 2012 fiscal cliff -- and the House was forced to ultimately swallow his deals.

But Sen. Chris Coons (D-Del.) said the talks with McConnell and Reid are "nowhere near done."

"There's lots of discussion going on about what's the best path, but my gut says that some concerted effort to make sure we don't default is absolutely essential," he said.

Their meeting appears to be exactly what some House Republicans feared: being undercut by their colleagues in the Senate. Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.) said the Senate GOP should "stand firm" so Republicans in both chambers could "speak with one voice."

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) disagreed with Cantor, noting the Senate shouldn't have to sit back and watch if the House is unable to move a "responsible" plan to end the government shutdown. "I just think we need to reopen the government," he said.

[panerd]

Good God they try really hard with the scare tactics and end of the world stuff don't they?

Stocks Slip as Budget Talks Falter in Washington - ABC News

By the way here the actual quote if you click the article. "The Dow Jones industrial average was down 31 points, or 0.2 percent, at 15,205 in midday trading Monday." Wish I could make this stuff up!

Lebron's scoring average down drastically! "He was averging 35 points a game, after his 34 point performance he is at 34.99"

[Kodos]

Good thing I cashed in my 401(k) and invested in gold!

[cartman]

Originally Posted by panerd

Good God they try really hard with the scare tactics and end of the world stuff don't they?

Stocks Slip as Budget Talks Falter in Washington - ABC News

So 'slip' is now a scary word that signals the end of the world?

[ISiddiqui]

I am glad that the Senate is actually acting like the grownups we assumed they are. Whenever someone goes off that the Senate is "undemocratic" and how its unfair each state gets equal representation, I remember things like this - its the Senate who ends up making the deals that the children in the House can't possible come up with.

Though I assume the comprehensive deal comes on Wed night - just before the debt ceiling day.

[JPhillips]

Then we'll have to see if Cruz or Lee or Paul object and cause enough delay to cause problems. We're apparently past the point where the Senate has time to respond to objections.

[gstelmack]

If the government is shut down, where is all the spending coming from that is putting us against the debt ceiling? Shouldn't the shut down have delayed the debt ceiling hit?

All asked tongue-in-cheek, of course.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Then we'll have to see if Cruz or Lee or Paul object and cause enough delay to cause problems. We're apparently past the point where the Senate has time to respond to objections.

Well, I think if this Gang of 12 can come to a deal - there may be 60 to prevent a Cruz or Lee or Paul from gumming up things.

[JPhillips]

My understanding is that a single senator can object and force the process back to a normal time frame which would require more time than we have. This could go quickly, but only through unanimous consent. When it comes to that, Ted Cruz will become the most important man in America.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

If the government is shut down, where is all the spending coming from that is putting us against the debt ceiling? Shouldn't the shut down have delayed the debt ceiling hit?

All asked tongue-in-cheek, of course.

There may be something to that, but we actually passed the debt limit months ago and have used accounting tricks since then. It also isn't certain that Oct. 17 is D-Day. I thought it was like my house closing, "on or about..."

[panerd]

Originally Posted by cartman

So 'slip' is now a scary word that signals the end of the world?

You're so right they always report on 0.2% changes in the market come up with explanations for them. I stand corrected.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Well, I think if this Gang of 12 can come to a deal - there may be 60 to prevent a Cruz or Lee or Paul from gumming up things.

Or how about the other 97 who just keep spending the money we don't have? Of course no empire has ever collapsed for economic reasons before, roll out the printing presses otherwise we are all going to die!

[cartman]

Originally Posted by panerd

You're so right they always report on 0.2% changes in the market come up with explanations for them. I stand corrected.

You must miss that there are several channels devoted to covering financial markets, so yes, there are usually several news reports a day commenting on even minute changes in a market's price.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by cartman

You must miss that there are several channels devoted to covering financial markets, so yes, there are usually several news reports a day commenting on even minute changes in a market's price.

Front page of yahoo? Not usually... but I realize you have to apologize for the Feds like Texas sports so don't know why I bother.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by panerd

Front page of yahoo? Not usually... but I realize you have to apologize for the Feds like Texas sports so don't know why I bother.

So the Fed put that on the front page of Yahoo? Interesting.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by panerd

Or how about the other 97 who just keep spending the money we don't have? Of course no empire has ever collapsed for economic reasons before, roll out the printing presses otherwise we are all going to die!

I'm sure that throwing on the brakes to your spending in an uncontrolled and haphazard manner is good for all companies and governments. If we want to use the now tortured metaphor of "spending money we don't have like a regular family", it would be like deciding to just stop paying the mortgage for a few months but continuing to pay for cable and pork-of-the-month club because Mom and Dad can't decide which ham or tv program to give up (or, you know, like selectively attempting to stop "all" discretionary funding like hurricane relief and then while begging for aid when there's a fertilizer explosion in your state).

But that would be silly because stretching a metaphor that far and basing your decisions on it would be impractical because it's no longer representing what you're trying to relate it to and is just a gross oversimplification, right?

SI

[panerd]

Originally Posted by cartman

So the Fed put that on the front page of Yahoo? Interesting.

Yes I don't think it is quite Alex Jones territory to say that ABC and Yahoo and Fox are government mouthpieces. (Or at least mouthpieces for the two pieces of the monster)

[Flasch186]

narratives

[RainMaker]

Thought this was good.

The Last Psychiatrist: How Does The Shutdown Relate To Me?

[panerd]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I'm sure that throwing on the brakes to your spending in an uncontrolled and haphazard manner is good for all companies and governments. If we want to use the now tortured metaphor of "spending money we don't have like a regular family", it would be like deciding to just stop paying the mortgage for a few months but continuing to pay for cable and pork-of-the-month club because Mom and Dad can't decide which ham or tv program to give up (or, you know, like selectively attempting to stop "all" discretionary funding like hurricane relief and then while begging for aid when there's a fertilizer explosion in your state).

But that would be silly because stretching a metaphor that far and basing your decisions on it would be impractical because it's no longer representing what you're trying to relate it to and is just a gross oversimplification, right?

SI

And I would agree with you SI if that wasn't the explanation every single time that debt limit comes up. This has been going on since at least Clinton and its always the same thing... we will fix it later but for now we just can't do anything about it. Otherwise the economy will crash. Why? The experts say. Why do they know? Because they explained why the 2007 crash after it happened, not before so they must know what will happen. You guys laugh all the time at the goldbugs (rightfully so on the fear mongering) when they claim the economy will collapse if we keep spending. Why then is the fear mongering the other way really any different?

[cartman]

Originally Posted by panerd

And I would agree with you SI if that wasn't the explanation every single time that debt limit comes up. This has been going on since at least Clinton and its always the same thing... we will fix it later but for now we just can't do anything about it. Otherwise the economy will crash. Why? The experts say. Why do they know? Because they explained why the 2007 crash after it happened, not before so they must know what will happen. You guys laugh all the time at the goldbugs (rightfully so on the fear mongering) when they claim the economy will collapse if we keep spending. Why then is the fear mongering the other way really any different?

Well, raising the debt ceiling doesn't authorize any more spending. The budget had already been passed, so they knew at the time that they would be spending the money, and what they authorized was going to exceed the debt ceiling. That is one reason why it is different.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by panerd

And I would agree with you SI if that wasn't the explanation every single time that debt limit comes up. This has been going on since at least Clinton and its always the same thing... we will fix it later but for now we just can't do anything about it. Otherwise the economy will crash. Why? The experts say. Why do they know? Because they explained why the 2007 crash after it happened, not before so they must know what will happen. You guys laugh all the time at the goldbugs (rightfully so on the fear mongering) when they claim the economy will collapse if we keep spending. Why then is the fear mongering the other way really any different?

I know, despite your "pox on both houses", stance, you do love to get in your Democratic rip (I don't remember when it started but it was probably Clinton!), never mind that since WW2 Democratic Presidents have presided over decreases in debt while Republican Presidents have gone the other way with GWB and Reagan responsible for the two largest percent increases in debt.



But how about that a national debt has been going on since the country was founded


Is structural debt bad: yes. Are there ways to fix it that we're ignoring: of course. Could many agencies stand to get a trim? Yes. Are arbitrary cuts or "across the board" cuts stupid? YES! Because there are downstream effects. And certain services have societal benefits beyond profit motive (just because the park service doesn't necessarily turn a profit doesn't mean it doesn't provide a benefit to the United States).

SI