Werewolf XXXIV: Tombstone (GAME OVER - Night 13)

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

The 2 shot deaths are important somehow, in my opinion.

If one person has two guns on them, they are clearly a prime suspect. Otherwise, I think multiple cowboys = better chance of a successful kill.

Perhaps if there are only two cowboys with guns, if we manage to arrest one it might even our odds.

[Chubby]

I've got a hunch that the two shot thing is just a mechanism to have the cowboys waste their bullets,

No solid info to go on to get to that hunch but just putting out a theory I have.

[Racer]

Originally Posted by Racer

Since we are currently somewhat discussing Lathum's allegiance, I looked back and found this. St. Cronin was the second person to vote to lynch Lathum at 9:45 a.m CST on 10/10. He became the first person to vote to unlynch Lathum of the four on that list at 12:22 pm CST. I am not sure what to make of this since it is my first game, but would a Cowboy typically be one of the first to vote to lynch his own kind?

In response to Swaggs's post, this is the one time I spoke about Lathum. The fact that St. Cronin was the second person to vote to lynch Lathum lends me to believe that Lathum is probably a villager.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

I have a question. Why was it better to have a shootout between Bullett and Cronin than have him in the Jail? once Cronin was seen killing, wasn't it a foregone conclusion he would have been locked up?then Bullet would have still been the potential killer of a cowboy later.

I was pretty sure bullet was a villager since the game started, killing Cronin solidfies that (tho it's not 100%, more like 95%)

We needed to know if Cronin did in fact kill Fouts (which I knew he did but everyone else didn't). If he sits in jail the cowboys could have tried to break him out. At worst, it's a wasted day of voting, i'd rather have our showdowns used on known baddies than on a chance (just personal preference on that).

[Racer]

To add to my last post, although I think Lathum is probably not a Cowboy, I would not say I trust him at this point.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Lathum

...There are alot of players who haven't had any heat and have been throwing alot of accusations around such as yourself. Why shouldn't we throw you in jail?

I don't know that I've thrown too many accusations around, but I have been vocal about an inconcistency I felt I saw in Saldana. I've mentioned the problem I have with you, NtN, and company forming a false CoT that may very well have slowed townie progress. I've thrown out that I'm positive that the list of people that voted to lynch both GE and Gram contains at least some cowboys. I've shared my list of trusted and untrusted, and believe that I might even feel inclined to lynch anyone below that trusted line.

Damn okay I guess I have been throwing some accusations around. I carp too damn much.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Chubby

I'd like this list fleshed out a little more.

Since Swaggs was in jail, wouldn't we know if he had a gun or not?

Saldana confirmed that I did not have a gun.

Originally Posted by saldana

for the record. Swaggs did not have a gun when i arrested him

also for the record, i only had a gun when i was a lawdog...once y'all dumped a spittoon on my head, i became an unarmed civilizillian.

and hoops, if you are around this evening, around 7 easternish, i believe my correct response is "I'll be yer huckleberry"

[Abe Sargent]

Lynch LoneStarGirl

I voted this way yesterday as well, so it's at least consistent. I feel like we are on Day Three, not Day Six. Let's get this train a movin'

-Anxiety

[Swaggs]

Alright... this time I am really out.

[Glengoyne]

I've got to head in to the Hospital pretty soon, and I'm really unsure of when I'll be back in front of a computer.

As far as suggestions about jailing people.
-Jail some folks I don't reasonably trust. My trust list hasn't changed since page 38.
-Jail some people who voted to lynch both GE and Gram.
-Evaluate the gun situation, cross reference the gun list with the people in the above categories. Arrest those that fall into multiple or all of those lists.

All I'm asking for is someone who might actually be guilty.

For lynching. I almost forgot. I think we need to lynch one of these two, just because it gives us some better options to jailing likely suspects. I don't have a reason to suspect or ally myself with LSG.

So lynch LSG

Keep the pressure on BK, perhaps we'll learn something else helpful that will either cause us to lynch or trust him.

[Abe Sargent]

It's been my experience that good wolves leave experienced vets in play when:

A). They are wolves themselves; or
B). They are jumping at shadows or villagers, thus limiting theiur usefulness; or
C). Because they suspect vheat on them at lynch time; or
D). They are so onto a wolf that killing them would make people vote de facto to lynch said wolf.


Barkeep and hoops are still around. Which is Barkeep? Which is hoops? We need to ask that question.

-Anxiety

[Chubby]

NO INFO RE: GUNS AT ALL

Anxiety, saldana, Glengoyne

I would really like all three of these people to come out and say if they have a gun or not.

[Racer]

Originally Posted by saldana

for the record. Swaggs did not have a gun when i arrested him

also for the record, i only had a gun when i was a lawdog...once y'all dumped a spittoon on my head, i became an unarmed civilizillian.

and hoops, if you are around this evening, around 7 easternish, i believe my correct response is "I'll be yer huckleberry"

Chubby, Saldana says he only had a gun when he was the Sheriff.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

It's been my experience that good wolves leave experienced vets in play when:

A). They are wolves themselves; or
B). They are jumping at shadows or villagers, thus limiting theiur usefulness; or
C). Because they suspect vheat on them at lynch time; or
D). They are so onto a wolf that killing them would make people vote de facto to lynch said wolf.


Barkeep and hoops are still around. Which is Barkeep? Which is hoops? We need to ask that question.

-Anxiety

I don't know, that's why I jailed him.

I do think he's being honest in the info (since I don't have any vices and he said that) he is revealing so that leads me to trust him but I can't say with 100% certainly he's not a cowboy.

[Chubby]

Racer - K, i was going off of Chiefs list. SO that's one down.


I'd really like a breakdown from Spleen in one post of all the people that have died that looks like this:

Name - Allegiance - Role

[Chubby]

1)Bartender - Barkeep
2)Adventure-starved young man - St. Cronin
3)School Teacher - Fouts
4)Card dealer - Thomkal
5)Baker - hoops
6)Prostitute - Chief Rum


I'd also like this list worked on as well both in terms of if anyone has come out and claimed a role or whatnot.

I believe in post #257 saldana was claiming the retired judge role, no?

[Chubby]

obviously

7)Pinkerton Detective - Chubby

[spleen1015]

Thomkal - Villager - Card dealer
GoldenEagle - Villager - Retired sheriff
Grammaticus - Villager - Retired Army Captain
Fouts - Villager - School teacher
st. cronin - Cowboy - Interestingly enough, I didn't get a PM about his death.
SnDvls - Villager - Miner

[Chubby]

9)Singer - Lonestargirl

[Chubby]

Alan - Shouldn't spleen have gotten a PM about Cronin's death since he still would have had to deal with the body, unless it's still rotting in the street?

[path12]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

On the topic of trust lists:

Pretty Trusted:
Chubby - caught Cronin
Bullet - shot Cronin
Swaggs - saved a villager with his power

Sort of Trusted:
Anxiety - demonstrated actor power to two people, in a manner that appeared to be defensive (on night of a kill)


That is pretty much it.

This list matches my thoughts with the one exception of maybe adding Spleen to the sort of trusted list. I do think (nothing more) that the mortician is likely a villager role.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Chubby

I've got a hunch that the two shot thing is just a mechanism to have the cowboys waste their bullets,

No solid info to go on to get to that hunch but just putting out a theory I have.

The two shot thing might or might not have validity, but I remember the giant red herring some people went on with the rule changes/messages in my Animal Farm game and just want to caution that it very well may just be flavor.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Chubby

Alan - Shouldn't spleen have gotten a PM about Cronin's death since he still would have had to deal with the body, unless it's still rotting in the street?

I just got it.

st. cronin was the Adventure starved young man.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Chubby

1)Bartender - Barkeep
2)Adventure-starved young man - St. Cronin
3)School Teacher - Fouts
4)Card dealer - Thomkal
5)Baker - hoops
6)Prostitute - Chief Rum


I'd also like this list worked on as well both in terms of if anyone has come out and claimed a role or whatnot.

I believe in post #257 saldana was claiming the retired judge role, no?

I'm the baker, not hoops.

[Chubby]

Ok, noted That's why I reposted the list, I don't want any people going around with the wrong info.

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I just got it.

st. cronin was the Adventure starved young man.

i gave him some adventure

[Racer]

Originally Posted by Chubby

1)Bartender - Barkeep
2)Adventure-starved young man - St. Cronin
3)School Teacher - Fouts
4)Card dealer - Thomkal
5)Baker - hoops
6)Prostitute - Chief Rum


I'd also like this list worked on as well both in terms of if anyone has come out and claimed a role or whatnot.

I believe in post #257 saldana was claiming the retired judge role, no?

I have not said this before as I was intitially unsure on revealing our roles, however since a lot of people think revealing roles will help the villagers I will go ahead and reveal mine. I am the butcher.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Racer

I have not said this before as I was intitially unsure on revealing our roles, however since a lot of people think revealing roles will help the villagers I will go ahead and reveal mine. I am the butcher.

Who is the Candlestick Maker?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

I don't know that I've thrown too many accusations around, but I have been vocal about an inconcistency I felt I saw in Saldana. I've mentioned the problem I have with you, NtN, and company forming a false CoT that may very well have slowed townie progress. I've thrown out that I'm positive that the list of people that voted to lynch both GE and Gram contains at least some cowboys. I've shared my list of trusted and untrusted, and believe that I might even feel inclined to lynch anyone below that trusted line.

Damn okay I guess I have been throwing some accusations around. I carp too damn much.

so are you saying that on the first night of the game if we were cowboys we were gonna form a false circle of trust that can be smashed eaisly if we are lying. c'mon man. Thomkal was killed that night, it wasn't me so unless I am a cowboy and the cowboys had the ability to do 2 kills in one night I'm not sure why you wouldn't trust us.

[hoopsguy]

Anxiety, last I checked Barkeep and I were not the only two vets remaining in the game. In fact, I think Lathum has played as many games as Barkeep and I combined. I'm not prepared to make it an either/or between us, because if push came to shove right now I think Barkeep is probably a villager.

There are quite a few players remaining in the game who I would consider experienced players and good players. An attempt to isolate me with the "why is he still around" argument seems pretty bogus when 70% of the starting people are still in the game.

[hoopsguy]

Lathum, you could have had a role-related action that night that you executed - it does not clear you as a villager.

Role activity does not translate to villager. It just means that you didn't kill or convert that night. I think it is pretty clear you did neither on Night 1. Beyond that, I haven't got a clue.

[hoopsguy]

Dola - and a Cowboy would want to find himself in a circle of trust, under false pretenses, as quickly as possible. So I think you are being disingenuous suggesting that you would not act in that fashion as a Cowboy.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Anxiety, last I checked Barkeep and I were not the only two vets remaining in the game. In fact, I think Lathum has played as many games as Barkeep and I combined. I'm not prepared to make it an either/or between us, because if push came to shove right now I think Barkeep is probably a villager.

There are quite a few players remaining in the game who I would consider experienced players and good players. An attempt to isolate me with the "why is he still around" argument seems pretty bogus when 70% of the starting people are still in the game.

I'm glad to hear that, push come to shove, you believe I'm a villager. Perhaps you could, ya know, not vote to lynch me? I do appreciate the trust others have been giving me, but I'd rather have zero votes to lynch me.

Glengoyne suggested I be left in jail to keep the pressure on me. I'm not sure what else I can say. I will say this:

I trust:
Myself

I pretty much trust:
NTN (night action every night; has role suggestive of being a good guy)
Chubby (Actions have been pretty much accounted for and fingered a wolf)

I somewhat trust:
Swaggs (It's clear the wolves wanted GE out of the way hence they killed him. If Swaggs was a WW Duke he'd have saved a less threatening target, like say Gram)
Lathum (Tenative evidence suggests he wasn't Night 1 or 3 shooter)
Anxiety (Tenative evidence suggests he wasn't Night 1 or 3 shooter)

I have no reason to distrust:
Saldana (Think he's gotten some unfair heat from the Swaggs jailing, would lean towards good)
Spleen (I question his not having a role, but his occupation does suggest good guy)
Chief Rum (Role meshes well with mine, but otherwise I don't have a feel for him)

Slightly distrust:
Glengoyne (what does the butcher do anyway? Has made lists. List making? Often the province of werwolves. But he trusts me so he can't be all bad.)

Suspicious:
LSG (Role which does nothing seems fishy to me)
Racer (have no feel for any part of his game)

[Barkeep49]

And now that I've decided she's officially suspicious, I think I'm comfortable

Execute LSG

And

Elect Chubby

And

Jail Racer
Free Barkeep49

[Chubby]

I will be at work from 4pm - 10pm EST tonight.

I close on my house tomorrow at 2pm (YAY!!!!!!)

None of this will affect my ability to vote and be up to date on posts, it just means I won't be online as much as I am say, today (it's great being home alone til 3:30pm hehe)

[Chubby]

Barkeep - Racer claimed butcher

[Chubby]

Now that I am not "tired", I will also need to decide who I want to snoop on tonight as well...

[hoopsguy]

BK, I still think we need info from the lynchings. I think you have given us a little more to work with than LSG, but I think there is almost no way that both of you are Cowboys with neither of you having guns when imprisoned. The question is whether either of you is a Cowboy. I would prefer we take our chances with lynching both people and find out.

It is definitely a bloodthirsty approach, but we are on Day 6 with one lynch (Gram)? Best I can tell, we are not putting a critical role on the line in terms of winning the game. I want the information that comes with a successful lynch - we know the Cowboys would fight to protect one of their own. I'll take my chances with this approach and would encourage others to do the same.

[Barkeep49]

Hoops let's talk this one out. How many bad guys do you think there are?

[Barkeep49]

Dola -- Or rather how many do you think we started with, as that's actually what I mean. I know you think there's been one conversion.

[hoopsguy]

Guessing there were 3-4 start with one conversion. With Cronin dead I think there are 3-4 remaining.

[hoopsguy]

Dola - I also know that Cronin was not the convert.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Dola - I also know that Cronin was not the convert.

how?

[hoopsguy]

It ties into my role information - I will know when we catch the convert. And my night action is to search for him.

[path12]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

It ties into my role information - I will know when we catch the convert. And my night action is to search for him.

So do you have the ability to clear anyone or just find the convert?

[Barkeep49]

Ok so let's say 4 plus a convert, since that's the worst case scenario. That means there are 4 remaning bad guys left and 11 good guys. That means we only have to kill 4 people to win the game. The bad guys, on the other hand, have to kill 7. If we start to go on an execution spree, aren't we doing the bad guys work for them? If we listened to you, by the start of tomorrow we could easily be down to 8 good guys and 4 bad guys. In essence, through one cycle, we'd have done nearly half of the remaining work of the bad guys for them. I just don't think the execute 'em all is the best policy. Through jailing we've gained lots of useful information. That to me is an even better out come than lynching a good guy. There are enough roles around here that at some point the bad guys are going to slip up and get caught. So let's just keep gathering the information, I feel, rather then doing the work of the wolves.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

It ties into my role information - I will know when we catch the convert. And my night action is to search for him.

I don't see how this relates to any of the roles that are on the role list.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Ok so let's say 4 plus a convert, since that's the worst case scenario. That means there are 4 remaning bad guys left and 11 good guys. That means we only have to kill 4 people to win the game. The bad guys, on the other hand, have to kill 7. If we start to go on an execution spree, aren't we doing the bad guys work for them? If we listened to you, by the start of tomorrow we could easily be down to 8 good guys and 4 bad guys. In essence, through one cycle, we'd have done nearly half of the remaining work of the bad guys for them. I just don't think the execute 'em all is the best policy. Through jailing we've gained lots of useful information. That to me is an even better out come than lynching a good guy. There are enough roles around here that at some point the bad guys are going to slip up and get caught. So let's just keep gathering the information, I feel, rather then doing the work of the wolves.

This post illustrates why I recommend lynching only LSG tonight. Barkeep is at least helping us, LSG has provided nothing useful. I certainly don't want to lynch a villager but she's left us with no choice.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by path12

So do you have the ability to clear anyone or just find the convert?

1.) Know when the conversion took place
2.) Identify the convert

And it does tie in to one of the roles on the first page. No one has claimed it yet, which surprises me a little bit.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

1.) Know when the conversion took place
2.) Identify the convert

And it does tie in to one of the roles on the first page. No one has claimed it yet, which surprises me a little bit.

Why does that surprise you?

You haven't even claimed the role yet...