Obama versus McCain (versus the rest)

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Arles

You understand that this pro-republican crowd was boing the mention of Clinton, not Palin, correct? Please tell me you got that.

of course but I think, if we agree that theyre going after the Pro Hillary contingent, having the present crowd boo isn't going to help the cause, you get that, right?

[JPhillips]

The experience part doesn't bother me much as I don't think there's a lot of relevant experience for being the President, although it really should close the door on all Obama experience criticism. My problem is that she doesn't seem to know about much. The audio from the Time interview a couple of weeks ago is painful.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

dan - where'd the chart come from? I have someone I want to show it to

Sorry it came from a housing blog, via Washington Post, let me supply the link. 1 min.

[DanGarion]

Here is the link to what I posted.

A Decade of Slow Growth: Why the United States will Face a Decade of Economic Stagnation and Face a L Shaped Recession. 10 Charts and Pictures as to Why This will Occur. » Dr. Housing Bubble Blog

And the Washington Post link http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...060900950.html

[DaddyTorgo]

cool dangarion - thanks!

[Apathetic Lurker]

I think it might be funny if/or when the republicans lose, they come out and say democrats are a bunch of sexist pigs since they didnt want a woman in the office.....

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Yes, your Osama / Obama lines, the ones that McCain's campaign and the likes of NR/RedState (you know, those known liberals) called off-limits are clearly just you having fun. You throw out racial bullshit, you will get called on it. And if the shoe fits...

You boys sure are thin-skinned about your guy's name...

At least I didn't pull a Teddy Kennedy...

YouTube - Ted Kennedy calling Barak Obama, Osama Bin Laden.Funny!!!

[astrosfan64]

McCain selecting Palin as his VP, pretty much guaranted I'll be voting democrat for the first time in my life. I've always been libertarian or republican.

I can not honestly vote for anyone that knows they are going to have a baby with down syndrome and don't abort it. That is not logical or sound judgement and pretty much lets me know you don't get it.

No thanks. I need rational and logical people in office.

Next point. This baby is five months old now or something like that. What kind of mother is she going to be to a newborn, flying around the country all the time. Some kind of shitty family values if you ask me.

BOO Palin, Boo this choice. Go obama.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

You boys sure are thin-skinned about your guy's name...

At least I didn't pull a Teddy Kennedy...

YouTube - Ted Kennedy calling Barak Obama, Osama Bin Laden.Funny!!!

Listen, asshole, go back to your fellow misanthropes, okay? I'm sure you can sit together and reminisce how things were better back in the day.

And the idea that I'm voting for Obama is amusing, to say the least. I like McCain and think he's a good guy, and easily my choice for the GOP nominee (though I liked Guliani, and pre-batshit crazy Mitt Romney).

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

And the idea that I'm voting for Obama is amusing, to say the least.

Let me pull a Flasch....yeah right, you're not voting for Obama.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

You boys sure are thin-skinned about your guy's name...

At least I didn't pull a Teddy Kennedy...

YouTube - Ted Kennedy calling Barak Obama, Osama Bin Laden.Funny!!!

are you sure youre not Bubba Wheels and just made a new forum name after being banned?

[DaddyTorgo]

what's the over/under for how long till SFL Cat gets banned for trolling/general asshattery?

[SFL Cat]

Thought I was on *ignore*

[Flasch186]

i wont ignore anyone, not even the guy who hates me, Duckman, because, Like Obama says it's best to engage with your enemy as well as your friends

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

Let me pull a Flasch....yeah right, you're not voting for Obama.

I don't really know who you are, and I'm not tied down enough to one party to really feel strongly enough to argue for or against someone, however I don't recall seeing a single one of your posts add really anything constructive to this conversation.

In fact the majority of your posts seem to be striving to either try to infuriate others (such as a troll would do), or you just are outright racist in reality. As I don't know you, I won't judge.. but if your intention is to try to steer this thread away from any kind of reasonable debate on the politicians or their suggested policies, you are doing so very well.

Perhaps you should cool it off, or take a break from this thread before you find yourself boxed for ridiculous trolling. There are others whom are doing your "side" of the discussion a far better service with actual intelligent discussion such as Arles or others.

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by astrosfan64

Next point. This baby is five months old now or something like that. What kind of mother is she going to be to a newborn, flying around the country all the time. Some kind of shitty family values if you ask me.

My mother feels the same way about Palin fwiw, also mentioning that her second youngest is four or five years old.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by astrosfan64

McCain selecting Palin as his VP, pretty much guaranted I'll be voting democrat for the first time in my life. I've always been libertarian or republican.

I can not honestly vote for anyone that knows they are going to have a baby with down syndrome and don't abort it. That is not logical or sound judgement and pretty much lets me know you don't get it.

No thanks. I need rational and logical people in office.

Next point. This baby is five months old now or something like that. What kind of mother is she going to be to a newborn, flying around the country all the time. Some kind of shitty family values if you ask me.

BOO Palin, Boo this choice. Go obama.

There are plenty of reasons not to like the Palin pick, but questioning her ability to mother seems way out of line IMO. Women all over the country balance work and motherhood. She seems to be a very concerned mother and I'm sure between her husband and th rest of the family arrangements can be made. I'd really hate to think in this day and age we're going to disqualify women with young children.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Arles

To me, Biden is a solid choice for Obama, but would have been a terrible choice for McCain. In the same light, Palin is a nice choice for McCain, but would have been an awful choice for Obama.

Agreed 100%. Which is why I was worried when Kaine was being tossed around as a VP.

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

I do agree that only the Dems could blow an election like this one.

True, although this time I don't think it would be due to poor organization and a poor campaign (2000/2004) or poor candidates (1984/1988), but due to parts of the Democratic "big tent" not seeing the forest for the trees.

I know it's been beaten to death, but the case in point is any pro-choice Clinton supporter who doesn't vote or votes for McCain. Registering disappointment is fine, but if McCain wins, with both Palin as VP and the current state of the Supreme Court (with impending retirements), Roe v. Wade is done and we might even see it go the other way with a federal ban on a women's right to chose.

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Woohoo! My taxes will be lower under Obama.

Same here. Well, $12 anyway.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

There are plenty of reasons not to like the Palin pick, but questioning her ability to mother seems way out of line IMO. Women all over the country balance work and motherhood. She seems to be a very concerned mother and I'm sure between her husband and th rest of the family arrangements can be made. I'd really hate to think in this day and age we're going to disqualify women with young children.

+1

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I don't really know who you are, and I'm not tied down enough to one party to really feel strongly enough to argue for or against someone, however I don't recall seeing a single one of your posts add really anything constructive to this conversation.

In fact the majority of your posts seem to be striving to either try to infuriate others (such as a troll would do), or you just are outright racist in reality. As I don't know you, I won't judge.. but if your intention is to try to steer this thread away from any kind of reasonable debate on the politicians or their suggested policies, you are doing so very well.

Perhaps you should cool it off, or take a break from this thread before you find yourself boxed for ridiculous trolling. There are others whom are doing your "side" of the discussion a far better service with actual intelligent discussion such as Arles or others.

I'm going to do as you suggest. Frankly, being called a racist would bother me, but only if that comes from someone who doesn't automatically pull out the flame-thrower whenever I post someting. Coming from the usual suspects like Flash, flere, or John Galt, frankly, I don't really give much of a shit about what they think of me or my opinions just as I'm sure they don't give much of a shit about what I think. But since you aren't part of that group, and seem generally to be a civil poster, I'll bow to your judgement and apologize for any offense I've caused. Out for a while.

[Flasch186]

I do legitimately feel bad for the GOP with the hurricane causing a major hiccup in their plans. Ive read that they may turn the convention into a telethon to raise money for the after effects of Gustav BUT that certainly isn't what the ENC had in mind and I dont know how it will play out or if its even fair to judge or grade, etc. Also Ive heard that the convention may be delayed as views on TV of a festival aired in contrast with the devastation, destruction, and despair in the Gulfcoast would probably not be good...I would hope the Dems would not take advantage of the situation via commentary or TV ads. This is not a fair situation for the GOP to find themselves in and I hope they handle it with the utmost care for everyone involved and effected without any politicalization from either side.

[astrosfan64]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

There are plenty of reasons not to like the Palin pick, but questioning her ability to mother seems way out of line IMO. Women all over the country balance work and motherhood. She seems to be a very concerned mother and I'm sure between her husband and th rest of the family arrangements can be made. I'd really hate to think in this day and age we're going to disqualify women with young children.

Does she breast feed? Any woman who doesn't breast feed is selfish, unless there is a medical reason not to (which is very rare). It is a proven fact that it is healthier for breast fed children for both their immune system and intellengence.

No matter how much, I would love to be a "mother" to my newborn I simply can't do it. It is a fact that newborns know the smells of their mother and need the touch and feel of their mothers.

I have to admit, I can't understand why people have children, to let somebody who makes 10 bucks an hour to raise them. I look at all these daycares and I'm like WTF, why even have kids.

One of the reasons that USA is going to shit, is two working parents. I'll even give a bit and say one parent should be home (i would still prefer it the mom), but one parent needs to be home with a developing child.

[ace1914]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

I've never seen it broken down like this. Looks like I would have been pretty much even under either one.

[astrosfan64]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

+1

Explain your +1? You honestly think that working as an administrative assistant or manager at a company can compare to flying all over the country? Give me a break.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by astrosfan64

I can not honestly vote for anyone that knows they are going to have a baby with down syndrome and don't abort it. That is not logical or sound judgement and pretty much lets me know you don't get it.

Wow... I think that is all I can say to this. My brother has cerebral palsy and I am glad he is around. He can also function without the help of others, has a wife and kids, etc. How can we know what the resulting life of a child is going to be if we do not give them a chance at life?

I can understand going the other route, but to basically call her decision not logical? To me, if she was staunchly pro-life and then changed her mind when she learned her baby has down's is the height of hypocrisy. Kudos to her for actually living her creed.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by astrosfan64

Does she breast feed? Any woman who doesn't breast feed is selfish, unless there is a medical reason not to (which is very rare). It is a proven fact that it is healthier for breast fed children for both their immune system and intellengence.

No matter how much, I would love to be a "mother" to my newborn I simply can't do it. It is a fact that newborns know the smells of their mother and need the touch and feel of their mothers.

I have to admit, I can't understand why people have children, to let somebody who makes 10 bucks an hour to raise them. I look at all these daycares and I'm like WTF, why even have kids.

One of the reasons that USA is going to shit, is two working parents. I'll even give a bit and say one parent should be home (i would still prefer it the mom), but one parent needs to be home with a developing child.

Agreed...however, because of our country's lifestyle choices, it will never be the majority of homes with kids being like this.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by astrosfan64

Does she breast feed? Any woman who doesn't breast feed is selfish, unless there is a medical reason not to (which is very rare). It is a proven fact that it is healthier for breast fed children for both their immune system and intellengence.

For one, what if the child can't figure it out? We had one that did and one that didn't do it. Quite honestly they are not far apart in any way. I would actually place the one that breastfed behind the one that didn't. But that is primarily because he didn't need to develop language skills because his brother took care of everything for him.

Originally Posted by astrosfan64

I have to admit, I can't understand why people have children, to let somebody who makes 10 bucks an hour to raise them. I look at all these daycares and I'm like WTF, why even have kids.

One of the reasons that USA is going to shit, is two working parents. I'll even give a bit and say one parent should be home (i would still prefer it the mom), but one parent needs to be home with a developing child.

Maybe because accidents happen? My wife and I had a 3 year plan for having kids. Instead, she was pregnant within two months of us being married. That said, how is daycare any different than a child going to school? Heck, after staying home with my 3 year old for 6 months while out of work, he probably gets more instruction at daycare, simply because there is much more structure there during the day. With me doing chores, cooking, picking up and dropping off the 6 year old, there was not much time for any sort of teaching my youngest.

All that said, I would prefer that my wife be able to stay at home, but unfortunately, we are not able to do that.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by astrosfan64

Explain your +1? You honestly think that working as an administrative assistant or manager at a company can compare to flying all over the country? Give me a break.

I'm not really a fan of having a holier-than-thou attitude when criticizing other people's parenting choices. Some may be better than others, but I don't think it's anybody's right to decide what is best for me and my children, and if someone for example tried to come up to my (as yet hypothetical) wife and tell her she was doing a disservice by not breastfeeding my (hypothetical) child, I'd have some very colorful language telling them what they could do in response.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by astrosfan64

Next point. This baby is five months old now or something like that. What kind of mother is she going to be to a newborn, flying around the country all the time. Some kind of shitty family values if you ask me.

Just curious, but would you have this problem if Mr. Palin was running for VP? Or is just because the mother is running?

There are many families in america where the father is atleast 50-50 (if not more responsible for the kids) now days. I will be interested to here from all the Obama supporters on how the woman's role is in the kitchen and home with the baby. I mean, there's no way the husband could pick up any slack while both him and the baby travel with Gov Palin - right? Plus, I would say Palin has shown some pretty solid family values by raising the other four kids.

Plus, according to three different articles she is still breastfeeding and a very active mom. It just involves good time management. In fact, I would bet that being a VP candidate with the additional resources means she spends more time with her child than most working "administrative assistants" do. Her husband is also extremely involved. But, maybe she should just go back to the kitchen in Alaska and know her role in society.

[ace1914]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

Wow... I think that is all I can say to this. My brother has cerebral palsy and I am glad he is around. He can also function without the help of others, has a wife and kids, etc. How can we know what the resulting life of a child is going to be if we do not give them a chance at life?

I can understand going the other route, but to basically call her decision not logical? To me, if she was staunchly pro-life and then changed her mind when she learned her baby has down's is the height of hypocrisy. Kudos to her for actually living her creed.

I agree. My wife and I haven't been blessed with a child yet, but when we do the last thing that would ever be on my mind would be aborting....no lets be frank...killing the kid. I'm all about pro-choice, believe me because to each their own, but I applaud her and her husband. That's a real testament to family strength and values.

[Flasch186]

Again, I think abortion rights and the choice that lies therein is a personal issue within a family and has nothing to do with anyone outside of that family and shouldnt be judged....hence my abortion rights stance vs. those that are Anti-abortion rights. Palin's choice is not to be commended and someone who exercises their right to end a pregnancy is not to be commended either or looked down upon and vice versa....it doesnt belong to anyone to judge as good or bad, IMO.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

I do legitimately feel bad for the GOP with the hurricane causing a major hiccup in their plans. Ive read that they may turn the convention into a telethon to raise money for the after effects of Gustav BUT that certainly isn't what the ENC had in mind and I dont know how it will play out or if its even fair to judge or grade, etc. Also Ive heard that the convention may be delayed as views on TV of a festival aired in contrast with the devastation, destruction, and despair in the Gulfcoast would probably not be good...I would hope the Dems would not take advantage of the situation via commentary or TV ads. This is not a fair situation for the GOP to find themselves in and I hope they handle it with the utmost care for everyone involved and effected without any politicalization from either side.

That's life, IMO. Looking out for the people in Louisiana should be everyone's number one goal (in both parties). If that means that republicans have to adjust their convention schedule and do more to help, they should be thankful for the opportunity to help on such a big stage.

Maybe that means McCain will have to win the election without an 80K rockstar reception in prime time Such is the way it goes and I'm guessing many in Louisiana would gladly exchange places with republican advisers in Minnesota.

[ace1914]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

Again, I think abortion rights and the choice that lies therein is a personal issue within a family and has nothing to do with anyone outside of that family and shouldnt be judged....hence my abortion rights stance vs. those that are Anti-abortion rights. Palin's choice is not to be commended and someone who exercises their right to end a pregnancy is not to be commended either or looked down upon and vice versa....it doesnt belong to anyone to judge as good or bad, IMO.

Its commendable if you agree with what she did. On the flip side, I wouldn't be offended if they went the other way.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Arles

Just curious, but would you have this problem if Mr. Palin was running for VP? Or is just because the mother is running?

There are many families in america where the father is atleast 50-50 (if not more responsible for the kids) now days. I will be interested to here from all the Obama supporters on how the woman's role is in the kitchen and home with the baby. I mean, there's no way the husband could pick up any slack while both him and the baby travel with Gov Palin - right? Plus, I would say Palin has shown some pretty solid family values by raising the other four kids.

Plus, according to three different articles she is still breastfeeding and a very active mom. It just involves good time management. In fact, I would bet that being a VP candidate with the additional resources means she spends more time with her child than most working "administrative assistants" do. Her husband is also extremely involved. But, maybe she should just go back to the kitchen in Alaska and know her role in society.

Let's be clear that this is a lone opinion. Every other Obama supporter here has praised Palin as a mother.

[Buccaneer]

Academy Award-winning filmmaker Michael Moore, best-known for his documentaries "Roger and Me" and "Fahrenheit 9/11" told MSNBC commentator Keith Olbermann on Friday that projections that Hurricane Gustav could hit near New Orleans on the opening night of the Republican National Convention "is proof that there is a God in heaven."

Fuck you. This is as worse than anything that those right-wing religious nuts have said regarding disasters. But this is getting no play - big surprise. The liberals broadbrush all non-liberals for their associations with such preachers and maybe some can broadbrush all left-leaning folks for their associations with these left-wing nuts.

[Big Fo]

Yeah I definitely cringed when I saw him say that on Olbermann's show the other night.

edit: I thought everyone stopped paying attention to Moore years ago, if it hasn't happened yet I hope it does now...

[DaddyTorgo]

yeah. definite supreme asshattery by that fat tub of lard

[Recoil]

Originally Posted by Arles

Maybe that means McCain will have to win the election without an 80K rockstar reception in prime time

[astrosfan64]

Originally Posted by Arles

Just curious, but would you have this problem if Mr. Palin was running for VP? Or is just because the mother is running?

There are many families in america where the father is atleast 50-50 (if not more responsible for the kids) now days. I will be interested to here from all the Obama supporters on how the woman's role is in the kitchen and home with the baby. I mean, there's no way the husband could pick up any slack while both him and the baby travel with Gov Palin - right? Plus, I would say Palin has shown some pretty solid family values by raising the other four kids.

Plus, according to three different articles she is still breastfeeding and a very active mom. It just involves good time management. In fact, I would bet that being a VP candidate with the additional resources means she spends more time with her child than most working "administrative assistants" do. Her husband is also extremely involved. But, maybe she should just go back to the kitchen in Alaska and know her role in society.

Arles:

If you read my post, you see I already answered that question. It is my belief that one parent should be home with a child. (I believe it should be the mother, but then again so does nature). If it is the father and he has the makeup to handle that then fine.

I agree it has to be a great idea to fly around the country with your 5 month child who has Downs. Best decision ever! I'm sure that is great time managment.

[Mac Howard]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

The experience part doesn't bother me much as I don't think there's a lot of relevant experience for being the President, although it really should close the door on all Obama experience criticism.

The Republican spin on her lack of experience has been desperate. The crucial point of her lack of experience is that by far the most effective argument against Obama - his inexperience - has been rendered futile by this appointment - at best it will be seen meaningless, at worst hypocritical. It does not open up the Republican campaign to effective accusations of inexperience but negates the attacks on Obama for the same.

When I first heard the announcement I thought that it was very clever - McCain retained his image as a maverick while introducing a nomination that appealed to the conservative right of the party. It takes away the media focus on the Democrat Convention. It also looked as if he could gain some of those Clinton votes. But as I learned more about her and thought a little deeper then it didn't seem so clever.

What woman who voted for Clinton will vote for a gun-toting, pro-life, creationist, global warming sceptic that wants to drill in ANWR? Anyone that could vote for both Clinton and Palin should be put down

This has to be a hell of a risk. McCain has destroyed his primary argument against Obama for an unpredictable gain in votes. McCain puts himself forward as the America-first patriot but this selection clearly puts his election first. Some women will clearly vote for her but many won't because of her conservatism, particularly on abortion. Some conservatives will be happier with the McCain ticket but some independents less. She has promoted at personal cost ethics in politics but may well be involved in a corruption scandal herself. The gain in votes has to be unknown.

I have to admit this is turning out to be a fascinating contest despite my lack of any direct practical interest

[astrosfan64]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

Wow... I think that is all I can say to this. My brother has cerebral palsy and I am glad he is around. He can also function without the help of others, has a wife and kids, etc. How can we know what the resulting life of a child is going to be if we do not give them a chance at life?

I can understand going the other route, but to basically call her decision not logical? To me, if she was staunchly pro-life and then changed her mind when she learned her baby has down's is the height of hypocrisy. Kudos to her for actually living her creed.

Warhammer:

I think its all fine and dandy that your parents choose this for you and your brother. Do I believe the decision is logical? No. Does it really matter that your mom and dad make logical decisions? Unless they are running for President or VP or some kind of elected office it doesn't. Well at least to me it doesn't.

I expect my elected officials to make intellegent informed decisions. The whole purpose you get the test, is to determine whether you should abort the fetus. I believe the stat is like 97% of babies who are detected with Downs are aborted.

So that goes to show you that our proposed elected official is at 3%.

I guess here is my point. I understand she "loves" all of her children. I don't want a president or vp that make decisions out of love or fear of god. I want one that uses logic and reason.

[ISiddiqui]

That's like the dumbest post ever. Ever.

[stevew]

I would more question the really bad decision to have a child post 40(danger rates rise substantially I believe) more than whether or not she decided to abort her baby(personal choice). Is she catholic or something?

[astrosfan64]

Originally Posted by stevew

I would more question the really bad decision to have a child post 40 than to whether or not she decided to abort her baby. Is she catholic or something?

Excellent point, I forgot to mention that.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

Thought I was on *ignore*

Zing!

[astrosfan64]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

Maybe because accidents happen? My wife and I had a 3 year plan for having kids. Instead, she was pregnant within two months of us being married. That said, how is daycare any different than a child going to school? Heck, after staying home with my 3 year old for 6 months while out of work, he probably gets more instruction at daycare, simply because there is much more structure there during the day. With me doing chores, cooking, picking up and dropping off the 6 year old, there was not much time for any sort of teaching my youngest.

The ages 1 - 4 are about teaching kids how to live. It isn't about sitting them in a school learning their ABC's. Their job is to learn how to be kids. They do that best by being around the people who care most about them e.g. their parents. I mean you should read to them, work with them on counting or whatever other early learning excercies you wish, but, you wouldn't do it full time. An hour or two a day is all you need to do at that young age.

Things like compassion, manners, respect, self esteem, moral values are taught at home by the parents. Its pretty hard to cram that learning into them 2 hours a night after work?

And do you really want some lady making 10 bucks an hour to teach these core values to your children?

I get in this discussion quite often. I've heard peole tell me they couldn't afford it or it isn't possible. Well, people quite often don't make the sacrafices they need to.

We have this neighbor, she and her husband both work. They have twins. They both have nice cars, plasma TV, drink wine on a daily basis, eat out etc... etc... They talk about how they would love for the mom to stay home with the kids, but they can't afford it. They could afford it, if they changed their lifestyle.

For the first three and half years of my first childs life, we had one car. We wouldn't make enough money for our house and two cars and insurance etc... without her working. So, she sacraficed and did without a car. We did without eating out all the time. I did without buying games all the time. Heck, I didn't even upgrade my computer for those early years.

I'm not saying this is the case with your relationship. I'm just making a statement, that there are a ton of people who could live off of one income, but they choose not to.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I don't really know who you are, and I'm not tied down enough to one party to really feel strongly enough to argue for or against someone, however I don't recall seeing a single one of your posts add really anything constructive to this conversation.

In fact the majority of your posts seem to be striving to either try to infuriate others (such as a troll would do), or you just are outright racist in reality. As I don't know you, I won't judge.. but if your intention is to try to steer this thread away from any kind of reasonable debate on the politicians or their suggested policies, you are doing so very well.

Perhaps you should cool it off, or take a break from this thread before you find yourself boxed for ridiculous trolling. There are others whom are doing your "side" of the discussion a far better service with actual intelligent discussion such as Arles or others.

Awesome post from a former fellow Grafton resident. I agree take a break SFL unless your post are for real then........no comment.

[astrosfan64]

After her water broke, on the day of Trig's delivery, Palin delivered a keynote address in Texas and then flew 8 hours to Alaska.

She returned to the office three days after delivering the child.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin



MOTHER OF THE YEAR!

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by astrosfan64

The ages 1 - 4 are about teaching kids how to live. It isn't about sitting them in a school learning their ABC's. Their job is to learn how to be kids. They do that best by being around the people who care most about them e.g. their parents. I mean you should read to them, work with them on counting or whatever other early learning excercies you wish, but, you wouldn't do it full time. An hour or two a day is all you need to do at that young age.

Things like compassion, manners, respect, self esteem, moral values are taught at home by the parents. Its pretty hard to cram that learning into them 2 hours a night after work?

And do you really want some lady making 10 bucks an hour to teach these core values to your children?

I get in this discussion quite often. I've heard peole tell me they couldn't afford it or it isn't possible. Well, people quite often don't make the sacrafices they need to.

We have this neighbor, she and her husband both work. They have twins. They both have nice cars, plasma TV, drink wine on a daily basis, eat out etc... etc... They talk about how they would love for the mom to stay home with the kids, but they can't afford it. They could afford it, if they changed their lifestyle.

For the first three and half years of my first childs life, we had one car. We wouldn't make enough money for our house and two cars and insurance etc... without her working. So, she sacraficed and did without a car. We did without eating out all the time. I did without buying games all the time. Heck, I didn't even upgrade my computer for those early years.

I'm not saying this is the case with your relationship. I'm just making a statement, that there are a ton of people who could live off of one income, but they choose not to.

you made one choice, they made another. Who are you to judge their choice? You have ZERO idea of the circumstances that they were in. Maybe they both needed to work to provide support to a sick parent and had a little extra leftover after that to increase their standard of living? You really have no idea of what's going on inside their lives.

Judge not lest ye be judged hmm?

[astrosfan64]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

you made one choice, they made another. Who are you to judge their choice? You have ZERO idea of the circumstances that they were in. Maybe they both needed to work to provide support to a sick parent and had a little extra leftover after that to increase their standard of living? You really have no idea of what's going on inside their lives.

Judge not lest ye be judged hmm?

Actually, I'm well aware of what goes in their lives. I'm called over there quite often to sit down with them and discuss these things.

I look at their kids and that is why I judge.