Big 10 Expansion Thread -Big Ten ready for a playoff .. finally?

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by Arles

My hope is that A&M, KU, KSU and maybe someone else (Virgina Tech?) goes to the SEC, with the OK-TX four to the pac 10 along with Utah. Finally, Rutgers, ND, Mizzou and Georgia Tech join up with the Big 10. Then, only Iowa State and Baylor would lose out from the Big 12. I'd hate to see one of Kansas/Missouri (and even KSU) get left in the cold. Those are some pretty good programs.

I like the way you're thinking Arles, lol. Though I'd like to see Missouri in the SEC with Kansas. You'd have the Border War plus an interesting match-up between Arkansas and Missouri.

[Tigercat]

I can accept Missouri to the SEC as a good idea, and maybe even get a little excited about an occasional road trip there. But Kansas? Eww. A late November SEC West matchup in Kansas does not appeal.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Arles

... Finally, Rutgers, ND, Mizzou and Georgia Tech join up with the Big 10. ...

Y'know what just struck me with that scenario? That GT might have to resort to giving away tickets to home games (even moreso than they do already).

That's the aspect of the B10 possibility, which I'm among those who at least feels it isn't that bad of a fit in a number of ways, that seems kind of problematic.

ND sure, tOSU yeah, maybe Michigan (unless their struggles continue) but other than that I can picture a lot of 15k games if GT isn't perpetually at the top of the conference standings. And that's before we even consider the impact of Georgia State.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

I can accept Missouri to the SEC as a good idea, and maybe even get a little excited about an occasional road trip there. But Kansas? Eww. A late November SEC West matchup in Kansas does not appeal.

I wouldn't hate either Missouri or Kansas, honestly. Not my first choices, but if we don't get Virginia Tech or similar, that may be where we have to go.

[miked]

If RU and GT join the same conference, I will be in heaven.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Y'know what just struck me with that scenario? That GT might have to resort to giving away tickets to home games (even moreso than they do already).

That's the aspect of the B10 possibility, which I'm among those who at least feels it isn't that bad of a fit in a number of ways, that seems kind of problematic.

ND sure, tOSU yeah, maybe Michigan (unless their struggles continue) but other than that I can picture a lot of 15k games if GT isn't perpetually at the top of the conference standings. And that's before we even consider the impact of Georgia State.

Yeah, I don't live in Atlanta any more, but I don't know that I would go out of my way to see a Minnesota vs Tech game or something.

I know you don't mind the Big 10 idea for Tech, but I just don't care too much for the thought myself. I pretty much like them where they are in the ACC

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

I wouldn't hate either Missouri or Kansas, honestly. Not my first choices, but if we don't get Virginia Tech or similar, that may be where we have to go.

Wherever you are in Arkansas is a good bit closer to Kansas than BR or NO. Unless the team is very good, it is hard to get up for that kind of road trip. Kansas for basketball will be great, distance or no. But Kansas's football talent, even when they do well through over achieving... Hard to get up for a game that you should win on paper against a team that is 800+ miles away.

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

I can accept Missouri to the SEC as a good idea, and maybe even get a little excited about an occasional road trip there. But Kansas? Eww. A late November SEC West matchup in Kansas does not appeal.

So you're ok going to Columbia, but aren't looking forward to heading to Lawrence? Really?

Kansas football isn't great by any means, but we're competitive enough.

[Tigercat]

Dola, although I feel a bit foolish (certainly not the first time) as I looked up the Mileage and Missouri isn't that much closer. I always thought Lawrence was further in state than it is I guess.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by the_meanstrosity

So you're ok going to Columbia, but aren't looking forward to heading to Lawrence? Really?

Heh, see my fail dola attempt above addressing my college town location fail.

[MJ4H]

Some speculation that the SEC is going to make a run at convincing OU that the SEC is a better fit than the PAC-x and use A&M as a lure. Honestly, I could see it working. It shouldn't be hard to convince them that it's a better fit. The convincing would have to be to leave Texas's side.

I think this is why Texas was doing all the threatening and posturing. This weekend could get really interesting.

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

Dola, although I feel a bit foolish (certainly not the first time) as I looked up the Mileage and Missouri isn't that much closer. I always thought Lawrence was further in state than it is I guess.

It's actually probably quicker to get to Kansas. You're about 45 minutes to an hour from Kansas City (nearby KCI airport).

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Baylor is probably 4th on the list of teams to replace TAMU. It probably doesnt get past KU/Utah in that instance

I know. However, could the state politicans try to force Baylor with Texas?

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

Heh, see my fail dola attempt above addressing my college town location fail.

No problem.

I'll be the first to say that KU has a long way to go in football. Are we as bad as we were prior to Mangino? Heck no. Are we an annual top 25 program? No way. Could we be? I like to think so. We've got the revenue to build a winning football program. What we don't have are the nearby recruits. Thus Turner Gill and his staff are really going to have to hit the entire nation hard. We've got some great facilities and a beautiful campus. So we're getting there.

[RedKingGold]

Does anyone want Temple?

Is this thing on?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Some speculation that the SEC is going to make a run at convincing OU that the SEC is a better fit than the PAC-x and use A&M as a lure. Honestly, I could see it working. It shouldn't be hard to convince them that it's a better fit. The convincing would have to be to leave Texas's side.

Yeah, I just don't see TX & OK splitting up.

I've been pretty good so far (IMO) about not doing too much speculation about who goes where or who ends up where, at least not relative to the rest of the sports fandom but let me ask you about something since you're physically on the other side of the conference.

Let's assume for a second here that A&M is in, and that TX & OK aren't. For the purpose of my question to you let's also stipulate that GT, Memphis, Miami, and Louisville are all eliminated from consideration due to the rumored UGA/UT/UF/KY alliance. Who would you see as the +1 more partner to A&M if they expansion stopped with 14 teams?

[MJ4H]

Virginia Tech, without question.

[Greyroofoo]

So Boise State is in the MWC now?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Virginia Tech, without question.

Hrm, I can probably make that leap mentally, might even say that's ultimately the best choice for the conference in a +2-only scenario.

Although there's really nothing about it that I actually like, the thing about that which actually makes more sense to me in terms of balancing the additions is that neither has an in-state rival & neither has inherent oh-no-you-didn't opposition to their addition.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

So Boise State is in the MWC now?

Yep.

[dawgfan]

I have a hard time imagining Oklahoma and Texas not joining the same conference, and I really doubt it will be any conference other than the Pac-10, especially considering the Pac-10 appears to be willing to invite Oklahoma State too.

But, even if they do split up, I'll still be happy as long as the Pac-10 expands to 16 and one of those teams is Texas.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

So Boise State is in the MWC now?

They're definitely trying to strengthen their hand to get the Big XII leftovers. Again, if KU, KSU, ISU, and Baylor are left out. If you snatch up some parts of those, they're as competitive as the possible "new ACC/Big East" in football and quite good in basketball if you pick up the right schools. KU, KSU, and Baylor will all be top 25 next season, for instance, as well as at least BYU.

I suppose Conference USA is the other conference that could be trying to snag teams but they just don't have enough in football right now.

SI

[Radii]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Does anyone want Temple?

Is this thing on?

nope.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

I know. However, could the state politicans try to force Baylor with Texas?

Maybe, but since its private, the only ones who care are the Baylor alums. Probably not strong enough to pull rank

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Hrm, I can probably make that leap mentally, might even say that's ultimately the best choice for the conference in a +2-only scenario.

Although there's really nothing about it that I actually like, the thing about that which actually makes more sense to me in terms of balancing the additions is that neither has an in-state rival & neither has inherent oh-no-you-didn't opposition to their addition.

Yeah those last two make it an easy choice. Should open up at least somewhat of a new market? Maybe as far up as DC? What do you think? You know more about that kind of thing than I do. That's just the feeling I get. Don't know who else it would be that certain SEC members wouldn't crap their pants over (Clemson, Louisville, FSU, etc.).

[the_meanstrosity]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

They're definitely trying to strengthen their hand to get the Big XII leftovers. Again, if KU, KSU, ISU, and Baylor are left out. If you snatch up some parts of those, they're as competitive as the possible "new ACC/Big East" in football and quite good in basketball if you pick up the right schools. KU, KSU, and Baylor will all be top 25 next season, for instance, as well as at least BYU.

I suppose Conference USA is the other conference that could be trying to snag teams but they just don't have enough in football right now.

SI

I'd feel a lot better about the Big East then the MWC. I honestly don't believe the MWC is an option for Kansas. KSU fans seem to think it's an option for KSU if they can't get a tie in with Kansas to the Big East.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Yeah those last two make it an easy choice. Should open up at least somewhat of a new market? Maybe as far up as DC? What do you think? You know more about that kind of thing than I do. That's just the feeling I get. Don't know who else it would be that certain SEC members wouldn't crap their pants over (Clemson, Louisville, FSU, etc.).

Supposedly there's no real opposition to FSU or Clemson (which has surprised me frankly) being added, so I imagine they're at least theoretically in play.

As for what might be added by anyone in particular, my belief is not much really. I can see A&M improving things in Texas to some extent but DC isn't a very good college football market (by the standards we're used to seeing with the SEC) regardless of who you're talking about adding.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Not sure if this was posted before. Great insight on what's happening in the process within the negotiations.

WildcatReport.com - Message Boards

Really shows well how quickly things can change. One option on the table in the morning may be history a few hours later.

[MJ4H]

Jon, I'm hearing GTech is in play. You hearing anything about that?

[Tigercat]

I wonder if the possibility of going into the SEC with Texas A&M and VT would make the move more appealing to GT.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Jon, I'm hearing GTech is in play. You hearing anything about that?

Eh, my sources aren't good enough to put me on the front end of the info curve


And as for the local media, to be honest, you'd almost think none of this was happening. What relatively little coverage there has been usually just puts the word "longshot" or similar into any story that references GT going anywhere.

[Swaggs]

With all I have digested over the past week, I think the movement ends next week with the following happening:

--SEC and ACC hold tight at 12.
--Big Ten adds Nebraska and a championship game. Holds tight and takes another swing at Notre Dame in a few years.
--Pac 10 adds Colorado, Texas, A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, OSU and a championship game.
--The Big East and Missouri, Kansas, Kansas State, and Iowa State join together (under the Big East name) with the existing BE basketball schools to form a 12-team football/20-team basketball conference. The Big East forms a Big East network with Notre Dame heavily involved (have heard that Notre Dame would agree to allow away games and presumably non-nationally televised games to be televised on a Big East Network). The Big East continues to be threatened by future expansion.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

I wonder if the possibility of going into the SEC with Texas A&M and VT would make the move more appealing to GT.

I have a tough time imagining that would have much effect one way or the other. In different divisions they'd rarely see A&M and neither would do much to improve the perception of the conference in terms of academics (not necessarily fair but I believe it's true).

At the end of the day the SEC is a football factory conference. Nothing short of complete insanity by the decision makers would lead GT to join, I've got a better chance of winning the Boston Marathon than Tech does of being competitive in the SEC on a regular basis. The differences in culture & in attitudes about athletics are so vast that it's barely recognizable as the same genre afaic.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

With all I have digested over the past week, I think the movement ends next week with the following happening:

--SEC and ACC hold tight at 12.
--Big Ten adds Nebraska and a championship game. Holds tight and takes another swing at Notre Dame in a few years.
--Pac 10 adds Colorado, Texas, A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, OSU and a championship game.
--The Big East and Missouri, Kansas, Kansas State, and Iowa State join together (under the Big East name) with the existing BE basketball schools to form a 12-team football/20-team basketball conference. The Big East forms a Big East network with Notre Dame heavily involved (have heard that Notre Dame would agree to allow away games and presumably non-nationally televised games to be televised on a Big East Network). The Big East continues to be threatened by future expansion.

No way the SEC is going to stand pat while the Pac-10 builds a super conference. I seriously wonder about the Big 10 doing so as well.

As for your scenario, poor forgoten Baylor.

[Swaggs]

I have read that the ACC schools are currently very tight and, without several ACC members defecting to the SEC, I think the SEC sits comfortably at 12 for as long as the Big Ten does.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

(have heard that Notre Dame would agree to allow away games and presumably non-nationally televised games to be televised on a Big East Network)

Umm ... is there any non-nationally televised football game for ND that isn't an away game?

Or am I misunderstanding what you're saying here?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

No way the SEC is going to stand pat while the Pac-10 builds a super conference.

Why?

Even with the likely composition of a Pac 16, the SEC is still equal or ahead of them in terms of football perception & dollars.

And even more importantly, if we take Texas & Oklahoma out of play for the SEC by putting them in the P16 then there's absolutely no one the SEC could (realistically) add that would strengthen them in a meaningful way. They'd have to be really stupid to jump to 16 strictly for the sake of doing so & that's what any big move not involving Texas really amounts to.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by digamma

Call. For the record, I'm calling on the 7 out of 10. I have no idea if Missouri ends up in the Big Ten or the Missouri Valley Conference.

I've been congratulating my Mizzou-alum roommate and his Mizzou-alum buddy all day on their future Mountain West Championships.

Then Boise State had to screw that up.

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I have a tough time imagining that would have much effect one way or the other. In different divisions they'd rarely see A&M and neither would do much to improve the perception of the conference in terms of academics (not necessarily fair but I believe it's true).

Lost in many sports discussions amongst people 30 and older is how much SEC schools not Kentucky and Arkansas (both of which have been mostly stagnant) and Miss St (needs work, perhaps has regressed) continue to really improve their academics. 20 - 30 years ago most of the SEC would not have been Tier 1 (top 130 or so schools depending on ranking used). Today all but the Mississippi Schools are Tier 1. I also know that the academic cooperation in the SEC has been drastically on the rise as the institutions have bettered themselves.

Now compared to GT who is still probably academically above every SEC school but Vandy, that isn't much to compare. But I think the idea that the SEC is a blackhole of academics is becoming obsolete in reality.

[MrBug708]

Does the SEC still allow schools to take partial qualifiers?

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Umm ... is there any non-nationally televised football game for ND that isn't an away game?

Or am I misunderstanding what you're saying here?

I should have written any away games that are not nationally televised, which are rare but happen from time to time (I think there was one against Air Force or San Diego St. a few years ago).

Thinking it over, though. Maybe I read that wrong and it was referring to televising all of their non-nationally broadcasted basketball games (which would make a Big East Network have additional appeal) as opposed to the one in every few years of football games that are inconsequential enough to get picked up somewhere (since they usually only visit teams like Purdue, Stanford, USC, Navy, or Michigan -- all of which are TV-worthy).

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Or the lowest rated Rose Bowl ever.

It'd pretty much have to be one or the other. Either they'll have earned their way there despite a half-dozen or so programs with greater history standing in their way, or they'll have benefitted from the greatest unanimous suckfest in the history of those opposing programs, backing in because USC, Texas, Oklahoma, Penn State, Nebraska, Michigan and Ohio State all just laid over and died.

I submit that for it to be the lowest rated Rose Bowl ever, it would basically take a pair of "good enough" years combined with seven cases of epic bed-shitting from the schools I just listed.

If they earned their way in, you're probably talking about a couple of top 5 or top 10 teams in the rankings, given who they'd have had to beat to get there. I can't see that as being "the lowest rated ever."

Even if I was talking more about the intensity of the rivalry on that stage than the networks' pocketbooks.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

But I think the idea that the SEC is a blackhole of academics is becoming obsolete in reality.

Hey my wife is a UT-Knoxville alum, so I'm not going to throw any dirt on the SEC academically without great risk of my personal happiness

That said however your last sentence is the one that goes to the real heart of the matter, basically the adage that perception IS reality. However much the SEC members may have stepped up their academics isn't nearly as important to the conversation as how they are perceived.

[MJ4H]

They've backed off of how sure they were earlier, but they still seem confident A&M is going to the SEC. They are only worried about "Texas politics" preventing it in the vote. My question is: hasn't that been the problem all along?

At any rate, they are voting on it soon.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Radii

It is nice to see Mizzou, Kansas, K-State and Baylor going to help clean up the oil spill in the gulf.

I literally LOL'd here

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Tigercat

Lost in many sports discussions amongst people 30 and older is how much SEC schools not Kentucky and Arkansas (both of which have been mostly stagnant) and Miss St (needs work, perhaps has regressed) continue to really improve their academics. 20 - 30 years ago most of the SEC would not have been Tier 1 (top 130 or so schools depending on ranking used). Today all but the Mississippi Schools are Tier 1. I also know that the academic cooperation in the SEC has been drastically on the rise as the institutions have bettered themselves.

Now compared to GT who is still probably academically above every SEC school but Vandy, that isn't much to compare. But I think the idea that the SEC is a blackhole of academics is becoming obsolete in reality.

Eh = the average SEC school is significantly worse academically than the average PAC 10 School or Big 10 - the fact of the matter is, academics aren't really a big deal at all in consideration down there (or if it is, they do a pretty good job hiding it). Part of this is because state schools in the south simply aren't as good - Mississippi or Alabama or Kentucky or Arkansas aren't in the same universe as their west coast counterparts (Cal / UCLA / Texas) or Big 10 equivalents (Michigan). Overall, The PAC 10 now has USC / UCLA / Texas / / Stanford and Cal - Vandy may be the only school from the SEC that is in the same universe as those, and even that isn't a Stanford or a Cal. The Big 10 has name academic schools like Northwestern / U of I / Michigan at a pretty elite level - again, Vandy aside, no one in the SEC comes close.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Arles

My hope is that A&M, KU, KSU and maybe someone else (Virgina Tech?) goes to the SEC, with the OK-TX four to the pac 10 along with Utah. Finally, Rutgers, ND, Mizzou and Georgia Tech join up with the Big 10. Then, only Iowa State and Baylor would lose out from the Big 12. I'd hate to see one of Kansas/Missouri (and even KSU) get left in the cold. Those are some pretty good programs.

I cant see why GT would leave the ACC for the B10 unless the SEC comes calling, leaves GT out and the ACC crumbles.

plus how do KU/KSU make sense for the SEC with Clemson, VT, and FSU available?

Not sure I follow your thought process at all here...

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

I don't care if the Big East loses Syracuse or Rutgers, but my biggest fear is that they take Maryland away from teh ACC. It makes a ton of sense. Maryland and WVU have a longe rstanding out of confernece rivalry, and I'd hater to see that go away, since they'd likely be in a confernece with the powerful east teams like Penn State, Ohio, and U of M, and probbaly wouldn;t want to keep us around as an OOC rival...

I dont know, can the B10 really offer significantly more money than the new ACC deal to Maryland?

I think Maryland is perfectly happy to sit tight to be honest.

[CU Tiger]

My biggest fear here, is that Clemson's leadership, or lack there of...aHEM Mr. Barker, are so in love with their renewed academic vision (which to be fair is fooling no one but themselves, Top 20 Public University or not) that they would not take a golden ring from the hand of the SEC based on some perceived academic superiority..

But what the hell do I know, it is late, I am tired and the wine with dinner was plentiful...

[DeToxRox]

Apparently Kansas is next in line for the Pac 10 if A&M decides to go off on its own:

"The Aggies may not have much time. Pac-10 commissioner Larry Scott was en route from Colorado to the states of Texas and Oklahoma with invitations in hand, a source familiar with the process confirmed. If the Aggies cannot commit, the Pac-10 is prepared to invite Kansas with its great basketball tradition. While the Jayhawks are desperate to find a landing spot, they would have to leave in-state rival Kansas State, a political problem."

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont....92f8114a.html