2009 MLB Regular Season Thread

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Now why can't Meche pitch like THAT more often. Good lord.

Greinke start will be interesting today. Had his worst outing last time out. We'll see if he gets back on track today.

[miked]

Originally Posted by stevew

Garrett Anderson just went yard

That has got to be worth noting

Yes, they'll think it's the beginning of his "power surge" and start giving him even more ABs.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Anybody got a couple of spare outfielders the Braves could borrow?

Top half of the order tonight through 8 innings: 5-14
Bottom half of the order (Anderson, Norton, Francouer, Johnson): 0-12

Which explains why they trail Pittsburgh 3-1.

And 3 of the Braves starting pitchers have a higher batting average than tonight's fill-in 1B Greg "I'm a waste of a roster spot" Norton.

::raises hand::

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

I thought Wang looked much better last night. Results weren't that much better, but his movement and velocity were much improved from what he was throwing earlier. I think they've got to give him at least one more - I wouldn't be surprised if he's about to turn the corner.

[JPhillips]

Ah Dusty. Last night Cordero had come in to finish up a 2-0 victory when the rains hit. After a two hour plus rain delay Dusty inexplicably puts Cordero back in the game. Cordero promptly gives up two runs and the game goes into extra innings.

[Butter]

Yes, that made no sense. I went to bed before the resumption of the game, safe in believing that Dusty would just run Masset out there, and finish things off. Are saves really that important to Cordero? Or is Dusty just THAT stupid?

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

I thought Wang looked much better last night. Results weren't that much better, but his movement and velocity were much improved from what he was throwing earlier. I think they've got to give him at least one more - I wouldn't be surprised if he's about to turn the corner.

The Yanks are pissing me off. All this money they spend and still can't beat the Sox. Put Chamberlain back in the bullpen...and stop relying on ARod to come through for us in the clutch.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

As a Sox fan I wholeheartedly approve of your plan to take your second best pitcher out of the rotation and start shitting on your best hitter.

[Ksyrup]

Yeah, I don't get how the solution to 1 bad starting pitcher is to take a good starting pitcher out of the rotation. That leaves you with 2 holes, not 1.

The math goes something like this...6 IP >>>>>>> 1 IP

[Fighter of Foo]

In addition, the way they've handled Phil Hughes the last year and a half has been retarded at best.

[Jas_lov]

Oh God, not Joba to the bullpen again. I thought this had been put to rest. He's too valuable in the rotation to put in the bullpen. The bullpen hasn't even been the problem the last 2 games vs. Boston and they've been much improved in the last month. Wang and Burnett go less than 3 innings and you want to take Joba out of the rotation, it makes no sense and it isn't going to happen.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Fighter of Foo

In addition, the way they've handled Phil Hughes the last year and a half has been retarded at best.

First mistake: preferring him to Santana.

[Jas_lov]

Keeping Hughes, Melky Cabrera, and another prospect might turn out better for the Yankees in the long run though.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Making the trade also might have won them a WS last year.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

Keeping Hughes, Melky Cabrera, and another prospect might turn out better for the Yankees in the long run though.

LOL @ That. They could've had Santana for nothing and didn't pull the trigger. Plus it wouldn't have stopped them from still pursuing CC.

Right now Hughes, even at his max potential, is not going to be nearly as good as Santana, and Melky is meh. He's the worst CF in the AL East. Now granted, their is a lot of talent in CF in the AL East, but he isn't very good.

They'd have been better off getting Santana and Mike Cameron, or hell, even try dealing for Aaron Rowand since he'd give you what Melky does. When you have Santana on the mound every 5th day, you're going to win more often then not.

For the Yanks, not pulling the trigger didn't make any sense.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

Keeping Hughes, Melky Cabrera, and another prospect might turn out better for the Yankees in the long run though.

Even INCLUDING weekly NFL threads, this is the craziest shit you've ever posted.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Yes, that made no sense. I went to bed before the resumption of the game, safe in believing that Dusty would just run Masset out there, and finish things off. Are saves really that important to Cordero? Or is Dusty just THAT stupid?

That move was so dumb that it's taken the heat off of him for bunting with men on first and third with no outs.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Logan

Even INCLUDING weekly NFL threads, this is the craziest shit you've ever posted.

Yep.

Seriously, Melky is in the bottom half of the best AL CF's and he is not going to ever get much higher then that.

I won't even go into Hughes because while I think he as potential, he benefited nicely from being a Yankee prospect and the hype the media attached to him.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Yep.

Seriously, Melky is in the bottom half of the best AL CF's and he is not going to ever get much higher then that.

I won't even go into Hughes because while I think he as potential, he benefited nicely from being a Yankee prospect and the hype the media attached to him.

Agreed on both counts.

Funny also that the media seems to be hyping the Yanks ability to work a trade for Mauer using prospects - I haven't looked at farm systems depth recently but my impression was that they didn't have much (despite Cashman's efforts to rebuild it).

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Their farm system is "mid-table" I would say. Only Jackson looks to be an impact player in the near future. They've got a lot of arms, but who knows if any of them are any good.

[DaddyTorgo]

I laugh when I hear people try to claim that Melky + Robinson Cano are top-tier players. Neither of them scares me at all.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Agreed on both counts.

Funny also that the media seems to be hyping the Yanks ability to work a trade for Mauer using prospects - I haven't looked at farm systems depth recently but my impression was that they didn't have much (despite Cashman's efforts to rebuild it).

Well they have Austin Jackson who seems legit, but I mean everyone was praising Jose Tabata as the second coming and he ended up in a deal for Nady after he gained like 40 lbs and lost his ability to hit.

Delin Betances could be legit but he has durability concerns.

There isn't anyone in that farm system that I think people would clamor for.

I doubt Mauer ever got dealt but if he did there are probably 10 teams with way more top end guys in the minors then the Yanks have.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Their farm system is "mid-table" I would say. Only Jackson looks to be an impact player in the near future. They've got a lot of arms, but who knows if any of them are any good.

They always seem to have a lot of arms that get hyped beyond belief and stupid teams always seem to fall for the hype and trade them players for pitchers that end up being turds.

It happens far more often (and more high-profile) with the Yankees then with other teams I'd argue.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Well they have Austin Jackson who seems legit, but I mean everyone was praising Jose Tabata as the second coming and he ended up in a deal for Nady after he gained like 40 lbs and lost his ability to hit.

Delin Betances could be legit but he has durability concerns.

There isn't anyone in that farm system that I think people would clamor for.

I doubt Mauer ever got dealt but if he did there are probably 10 teams with way more top end guys in the minors then the Yanks have.

Exactly. And yet the media seems to hype it up like the Yankees are the only logical destination and they have all the pieces that the Twins would obviously want. It's kind of

[Fighter of Foo]

Originally Posted by Logan

Even INCLUDING weekly NFL threads, this is the craziest shit you've ever posted.

It's only been a year and a half. Maybe the Yanks stop dicking around with Hughes & give the kid some job security and he becomes a top 10 starter that he has the talent to become. Maybe Johan blows out his arm or something.

Not likely mind you, but possible.

EDIT: Mauer's not going anywhere.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Fighter of Foo

It's only been a year and a half. Maybe the Yanks stop dicking around with Hughes & give the kid some job security and he becomes a top 10 starter that he has the talent to become. Maybe Johan blows out his arm or something.

Not likely mind you, but possible.

You can have your maybes, I'll take reality.

eta: Let's go back to the original statement: "might turn out better for the Yankees." Let's say Hughes does exactly what you say and becomes a Top 10 starter. Well, that's worse than what Santana is. So let's bump that up and say he becomes Johan Santana v2. Ignoring those short odds for a second, how does it work out better for the Yankees (especially Cashman and Girardi, who will both be gone with another failure) to be getting that down the road compared to both last year and today when they are 9 years removed from a title and are getting desperate?

[stevew]

One thing I've noticed is that in trades, it seems that the Yankees have to pay one price, but the going rate for other teams is not as substantial. For instance, the Yankees might have to take on an additional financial part that another team wouldnt. Now that may account for the fact that Yankee prospects are overhyped, and I guess I could see that. It's just my loose theory on the matter.

[Jas_lov]

Melky is having a much better year than a couple of the other CFs in the AL East but I guess that means nothing. He's only 24, Hughes is 22, and you're writing these guys off like they're nobodies. All I said was that the trade might be better for the Yankees in the long run, it's too early to say. Now it looks like a mistake, I agree. But 5-10 years from now those two plus the other prospect in the deal might be very good players.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

The Yankees also pay the price for giving in so much (to players mostly). Nobody takes "final offer" and "we won't go that high" seriously from them.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

Melky is having a much better year than a couple of the other CFs in the AL East but I guess that means nothing. He's only 24, Hughes is 22, and you're writing these guys off like they're nobodies. All I said was that the trade might be better for the Yankees in the long run, it's too early to say. Now it looks like a mistake, I agree. But 5-10 years from now those two plus the other prospect in the deal might be very good players.

Melky Cabrera has had 1600 PA at an OPS+ of 86.

I think he is what he is. It's a total tossup between him and Ellsbury for the bottom in the AL East, and Jacoby's defense would make me consider him over Melky.

[Fighter of Foo]

Originally Posted by Logan

You can have your maybes, I'll take reality.

eta: Let's go back to the original statement: "might turn out better for the Yankees." Let's say Hughes does exactly what you say and becomes a Top 10 starter. Well, that's worse than what Santana is. So let's bump that up and say he becomes Johan Santana v2. Ignoring those short odds for a second, how does it work out better for the Yankees (especially Cashman and Girardi, who will both be gone with another failure) to be getting that down the road compared to both last year and today when they are 9 years removed from a title and are getting desperate?

I deal exclusively in reality. Dismissing something unlikely as impossible is a fool's game.

[Logan]

BTW, the "other prospect" you keep referring to was Ian Kennedy. Kennedy was pumped up beyond belief despite having the most average stuff you'll see. Earned his spot in the rotation after being deemed too valuable to part with for Santana, and promptly got lit up. Before he was diagnosed with an anyeurism, he was dominating AAA for the third straight year; that's not a sign of an AAAA player at all or anything.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

As a Sox fan I wholeheartedly approve of your plan to take your second best pitcher out of the rotation and start shitting on your best hitter.

SI

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Melky Cabrera has had 1600 PA at an OPS+ of 86.

I think he is what he is. It's a total tossup between him and Ellsbury for the bottom in the AL East, and Jacoby's defense would make me consider him over Melky.

Ellsbury also has game-changing speed and fewer PA's too.

988 PA's with an OPS+ of 92
Total Fielding Runs above average (per year) over career +14.2

Melky

1789 PA with an OPS+ of 86
Total Fielding Runs above average (per year) over career +4.8

[Ryan S]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

Put Chamberlain back in the bullpen...

No, No, No! It is a hell of a lot easier (and cheaper) to find someone to fill the 8th inning spot than it is to find a good starter.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Dola, just saw this:

Verlander, since April 27th, is 7-0 with a 1.10 ERA. Unreal.

Yeah, he's been putting up sick stats for 2 months now

SI

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Ryan S

No, No, No! It is a hell of a lot easier (and cheaper) to find someone to fill the 8th inning spot than it is to find a good starter.

What about the 9th inning spot? One more year on Rivera's deal, some slippage in his performance...

[RomaGoth]

I have been very disappointed with the Yankee prospects, especially Kennedy and Hughes. Will they turn into something someday? Who knows? I do know that they face incredible pressure playing for that team though, unlike what any other players face in MLB. If guys like Giambi, Teixera, Sabathia, and Burnett have a tough time with the pressure in NY, it should be expected that really young players like Kennedy/Hughes/Cabrera will have an even more difficult time of it.

With that being said, I would have preferred to see them pick up Santana last year instead. But, they didn't so now we just need to see if these prospects will turn into something or get traded anyway...

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

I have been very disappointed with the Yankee prospects, especially Kennedy and Hughes. Will they turn into something someday? Who knows? I do know that they face incredible pressure playing for that team though, unlike what any other players face in MLB. If guys like Giambi, Teixera, Sabathia, and Burnett have a tough time with the pressure in NY, it should be expected that really young players like Kennedy/Hughes/Cabrera will have an even more difficult time of it.

With that being said, I would have preferred to see them pick up Santana last year instead. But, they didn't so now we just need to see if these prospects will turn into something or get traded anyway...

always an excuse. cry me a river. either they can perform or they can't.

the red sox players face an equivelent level of scrutiny, if not in sheer number of media outlets certainly in intensity of media coverage and fan-base. as do cubs prospects from a passionate fanbase. as do mets prospects. and you don't hear fans of any of those teams making the excuse about the media pressure on the prospects when they don't pan out as much as they were hyped to.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

always an excuse. cry me a river. either they can perform or they can't.

the red sox players face an equivelent level of scrutiny, if not in sheer number of media outlets certainly in intensity of media coverage and fan-base. as do cubs prospects from a passionate fanbase. as do mets prospects. and you don't hear fans of any of those teams making the excuse about the media pressure on the prospects when they don't pan out as much as they were hyped to.

I sincerely doubt that the fan/media pressure for Sox players is anywhere near what Yankees players face everyday of their playing career in NYC.

The Mets have always been second-fiddle in NYC. The Cubs are perennial losers with very loyal fans. Do the Sox face high expectations? Of course they do. But to say that they face the same pressure every day as the Yankees is just naive.

[sterlingice]

Not only that but Hughes is apparently a bust 30 games into his career. Greg Maddux was carrying around an ERA in the mid 5's 30 games into his career and he turned out ok. People expecting immediate results from prospects are almost always doomed to disappointment.

SI

[Karlifornia]

A lot of talk about the Yankees and Red Sox on here....Feels like I turned on ESPN.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

I sincerely doubt that the fan/media pressure for Sox players is anywhere near what Yankees players face everyday of their playing career in NYC. But to say that they face the same pressure every day as the Yankees is just naive.

How would you know?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

A lot of talk about the Yankees and Red Sox on here....Feels like I turned on ESPN.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

A lot of talk about the Yankees and Red Sox on here....Feels like I turned on ESPN.

Well said, sir. Well said. I will now return the thread to its regularly scheduled discussion.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Yes, Royals time!

[Ksyrup]

Can I make one more Yankees-related comment?

Wow.

Wang has the highest starter's ERA through five starts since 1913, when baseball began keeping track of ERAs.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Can I make one more Yankees-related comment?

Wow.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

I have been very disappointed with the Yankee prospects, especially Kennedy and Hughes. Will they turn into something someday? Who knows? I do know that they face incredible pressure playing for that team though, unlike what any other players face in MLB. If guys like Giambi, Teixera, Sabathia, and Burnett have a tough time with the pressure in NY, it should be expected that really young players like Kennedy/Hughes/Cabrera will have an even more difficult time of it.

What a fuckin joke. I don't know what you hear down in Pennsylvania via Idaho via Michigan, but the pressure put on these guys by the media and fans is non-existent. A team like the Yankees is the perfect place for one of these kids to come up. A guy like Hughes gets to come up last year and be the 5th starter on a rotation anchored by guys making a combined $100 million. A hitter gets to come in, bat 7th or 8th, and get protected by the likes of Matsui, Posada, Swisher, Nady, etc and is on a team where the fans die for an excuse to boo the best hitter of the generation.

How is that anywhere near the pressure faced by a kid who comes up during a team's continued shitty run and is expected to be the savior of the franchise? Think Evan Longoria had it easy just because it was Tampa? Kazmir? Think it was easy for Alex Gordon to come up? You really think the pressure Austin Jackson will face next year even remotely approaches what Strasburg will be going through in Washington?

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Logan

You really think the pressure Austin Jackson will face next year even remotely approaches what Strasburg will be going through in Washington?

yes I do