Jerry Sandusky thread

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by saldana

whether or not the coaches are still there or have left already does not alter the fact that when they WERE there, the school is responsible (or at least should be) responsible for the coaches actions...that is the message here.

How much responsibility should a school have? Should the school pay for someone to to trail every member of the staff and playing team? You are asking for 100% oversight in which it isn't possible. What percentage should the school be responsible for when the coach or a player does something wrong? The school obviously had some knowledge of what is going on in this instance, but all those involved are looking at jail time if they are not already dead. I would say that alone is a pretty big risk/reward. I think anyone willing to look away from child molestation probably won't care about future penalties the school might incur as they seem to have a win at all cost. So why punish the school?

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Does Ben Howland have the authority at UCLA to overrule the school president on whether or not to report a crime to the authorities?

Yes, this whole thing revolves around crimes that need to be taken care of outside of the NCAA. However, this entire series of events happened because the school had no control over the football program or the coach. Every coach in every sport at every school wants more power. The difference is at other schools there's usually someone that puts the breaks on the type of power Paterno was wielding.

How many other schools' Board of Trustees could have gone to their coaches' house and told him he was fired and been told "No, now get out of my house" like Penn State in 2004?

[Logan]

I think we should just rewind this entire thread at this point.

[Ben E Lou]

Haven't read it yet, but this has gotta be good: "I HOPE U ALL FUCKIN DIE" And Other Reasoned, Measured Responses To The NCAA's Penn State Punishment

[Logan]

Brendan Mahon ‏@BigBabyMahon

Every Kids dream is to play in the NFL and Bill O'Brien and his staff will get me there

That's a pretty good OL recruit for 2013, kid from NJ. I think it's completely crazy to put that much faith in a somewhat decimated program. Of course, who knows if his thoughts change before February.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Haven't read it yet, but this has gotta be good: "I HOPE U ALL FUCKIN DIE" And Other Reasoned, Measured Responses To The NCAA's Penn State Punishment

I made it through the first 4 or 5 before I wretched.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by Logan

I think we should just rewind this entire thread at this point.

If GroundCat wasn't banned, we wouldn't even need this thread.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Logan

That's a pretty good OL recruit for 2013, kid from NJ. I think it's completely crazy to put that much faith in a somewhat decimated program. Of course, who knows if his thoughts change before February.

6 months of other guys recruiting on this will pull a chunk of their class away, I'm sure.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by bronconick

If your school fucks up to the point where they have to pay a former FBI head $500,000 per month to investigate how you got so fucked up, have him write up a report and then agree that what he said is factual, then yes. The "unprecedented" part of this is using the Freeh report instead of wasting time with their own investigation that would get stonewalled anyway.

Otherwise, it's going to be business as usual, but if everyone starts getting paranoid that their football players can't beat up their girlfriends anymore, that's fine with me too.

PSU consented because the alternative was the NCAA and Big-10 revoking their membership, which at the least would have resulted in years of litigation and kept the story and the details in the media. They consented to get this over with, not because they agree the NCAA acted reasonably.

By the way, what happens if the administrators charged with perjury end up being acquitted? Then the NCAA loses even its argument that there was somehow an institutional problem at the school.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

PSU consented because the alternative was the NCAA and Big-10 revoking their membership, which at the least would have resulted in years of litigation and kept the story and the details in the media. They consented to get this over with, not because they agree the NCAA acted reasonably.

By the way, what happens if the administrators charged with perjury end up being acquitted? Then the NCAA loses even its argument that there was somehow an institutional problem at the school.

I think the NCAA would point at the extremely difficult path to reach the burden of proof for perjury and then sleep very well at night.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Haven't read it yet, but this has gotta be good: "I HOPE U ALL FUCKIN DIE" And Other Reasoned, Measured Responses To The NCAA's Penn State Punishment

That's a lot of people questioning the NCAA's sexual preference.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

By the way, what happens if the administrators charged with perjury end up being acquitted? Then the NCAA loses even its argument that there was somehow an institutional problem at the school.

Umm, what?

[stevew]

Originally Posted by molson

That's a lot of people questioning the NCAA's sexual preference.

why is there all this mention of a bundle of sticks everywhere?

[Toddzilla]

Any and all arguements that include "don't punish the (innocent) fans" are beyond worthless. Just stop it already.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by bronconick

6 months of other guys recruiting on this will pull a chunk of their class away, I'm sure.

Also, I suspect that some younger players currently on the roster will start to jump ship after this season. There could be a ripple effect come January.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Any and all arguements that include "don't punish the (innocent) fans" are beyond worthless. Just stop it already.

Agree. PSU doesnt deserve to have any fans

[molson]

How would you react if this happened at your schools and the crazies came out? Would you try to counteract the crazies with rational discourse or would you just hide and stay out of it (like I think 1 or 2 FOFC Penn Staters have done)? I don't think you could really do the former with the level of rage out there, I think you could only stay out of it. Which leaves the crazies as your exclusive school representatives. I don't get why the anger is going that far for people, so far beyond the people that did bad things, but if it makes you feel better, I guess whatever works.

[Klinglerware]

Ping: RutgersAl

[Noop]

The B1G conference's response was weak.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by molson

I don't think you could really do the former with the level of rage out there, I think you could only stay out of it. Which leaves the crazies as your exclusive school representatives.

Yup.

[Ben E Lou]

Who would have imagined this a year ago???

[stevew]

Did people actually believe that Paterno was actually coaching the past 10 years or so? Maybe I was mistaken, but I assumed he was just there and people with competent brains actually made the actual coaching decisions. Sure JoePa can determine whether to kick or receive, but I didn't see him as doing any second level statistical analysis.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Haven't read it yet, but this has gotta be good: "I HOPE U ALL FUCKIN DIE" And Other Reasoned, Measured Responses To The NCAA's Penn State Punishment

if i had the time, i would track down who all those people are and send those tweets to their employers, just to amuse myself....that was epic...thanks SD for the laughs

[SportsDino]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

If you have a time machine (and you've already used it to go kill Hitler), do you think JoePa's statue and status gets somewhat reinstated in 20 or 30 years at Penn State?

SI

To properly takedown the statue they should have decapitated it and used the head as a chamberpot, then melted it down for scrap and sell it to a junkyard and donate the resulting couple of bucks to charity. Joe A.R. Paterno's legacy would be overpriced at that amount, but for once it would actually go towards bettering off someone but that old shithead and his goons.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Who would have imagined this a year ago???

I don't know, but that is one of the best SI covers I've seen. Very well done, props to the artist!

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by saldana

if i had the time, i would track down who all those people are and send those tweets to their employers, just to amuse myself....that was epic...thanks SD for the laughs

That was scary. There are some very disturbed people in the world.

[Grover]

I didn't see it, but was there anything about current players being able to transfer without penalty?

[molson]

Originally Posted by Dutch

I don't know, but that is one of the best SI covers I've seen. Very well done, props to the artist!

Ya, that inspired me too look up some past SI covers I remembered, they have a pretty cool search engine at their website. Most of the recent ones suck but every once in while in the past they just hit the perfect note in a way that made me remember how I used to love to get SI every week.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Grover

I didn't see it, but was there anything about current players being able to transfer without penalty?

Yup. They're essentially Free Agents. From what I'm reading, some recruiting has already begun.

[Klinglerware]

I've noticed that I'm going to CNNSI and even the NYTimes for sports news more and more. Fair or not, these days, ESPN seems too enmeshed in the fabric of the news that they cover that they cannot really guarantee that their reporting can be trusted to be free of agenda.

[pbot]

At this point, I'm 'relieved' that the NCAA made the announcement now, while Penn State is in summer session. Had they announced this during the regular fall/spring semester I can only imagine the mayhem that would have ensued. I don't know where rock bottom is for this scandal, but another student riot certainly would've brought it to a new low.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

Yup. They're essentially Free Agents. From what I'm reading, some recruiting has already begun.

So how does this work, do other schools actually need to have scholarships to give? What's to stop, say, a program like Temple, Buffalo, or Syracuse or some other school in close proximity from doing something insane like not renewing their current roster's scholarships, inviting the entire PSU football roster to join en masse, and reaping the financial benefits of a bunch of PSU fans adopting their program every Saturday?

[Scoobz0202]

I had read a tweet from a reporter, no idea on the validity of it, that the NCAA was considering allowing schools to go above their scholarship limit to receive Penn State students.

Again, no idea to the truth to that or if anything more was decided.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

So how does this work, do other schools actually need to have scholarships to give? What's to stop, say, a program like Temple, Buffalo, or Syracuse or some other program in close proximity from doing something insane like not renewing their current roster's scholarships, inviting the entire PSU to join en masse, and reap the benefits of a bunch of PSU fans adopting their program every Saturday?

I would think that if they left en masse and went to the same place, the PSU fans would hate them and that school forever. It's college football. They cheer for the uniform, not so much the individuals.

Originally Posted by Scoobz0202

I had read a tweet from a reporter, no idea on the validity of it, that the NCAA was considering allowing schools to go above their scholarship limit to receive Penn State students.

Again, no idea to the truth to that or if anything more was decided.

I thought that this was mentioned at the presser this morning as being under consideration. (I was working and only half paying attention, so I may have heard that not from the NCAA but from an analyst.)

[Scoobz0202]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

I thought that this was mentioned at the presser this morning as being under consideration. (I was working and only half paying attention, so I may have heard that not from the NCAA but from an analyst.)

It might have been that the scholarship loss was deferred to the next year. So if Ohio State offered a 26th scholarship this year, then they would only have 24 next year.

But yea, unsure where I read it.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

So how does this work, do other schools actually need to have scholarships to give? What's to stop, say, a program like Temple, Buffalo, or Syracuse or some other school in close proximity from doing something insane like not renewing their current roster's scholarships, inviting the entire PSU football roster to join en masse, and reaping the financial benefits of a bunch of PSU fans adopting their program every Saturday?

The entire roster won't go. There's too many players using this as a rallying point. It will last them a year tops. Once the loss of scholarships start to kick in and the losses mount, players won't be so thrilled.

[Scoobz0202]

Found this via google search on SBNation.

hxxp://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2012/7/23/3177402/penn-state-football-roster-ncaa-transfers

Additionally, the NCAA is considering waiving scholarship limits for programs to which these football student-athletes transfer, provided they reduce proportionately in the next year. For example, the limit is 25 new scholarships per year to a total of 85 scholarships. If the limits are waived in 2012-13 to accommodate one Penn State student-athlete who wishes to transfer to a particular school already at the limits, in 2013-14 the school will be limited to 24 new scholarships and 84 total scholarships.

[Matthean]

EDIT: Looks like max scholarships is just going from 85 to 75 to 65.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by Scoobz0202

Found this via google search on SBNation.

hxxp://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2012/7/23/3177402/penn-state-football-roster-ncaa-transfers

Okay, that makes sense. No free lunch...

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

Okay, that makes sense. No free lunch...

Not sure if they still are, but IIRC, Michigan really wanted the TE PSU picked up as he's considered the best in the country.

[Klinglerware]

Not to make too much light of the scandal, but the Big East sure could have used this 10 years ago...

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Scoobz0202

It might have been that the scholarship loss was deferred to the next year. So if Ohio State offered a 26th scholarship this year, then they would only have 24 next year.

But yea, unsure where I read it.

NCAA Supplemental Draft.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

Not to make too much light of the scandal, but the Big East sure could have used this 10 years ago...

Yeah, so we'll see if all of those Jersey kids are heading to Rutgers or if they're going to California, essentially.

I guess the real thing is, so many of these programs already have things figured out that it seems the real trickle-down might be to 2nd tier programs. It'd be crazy if say, a MAC program got a bunch of PSU second-string kids and provided they were any good (big if, obviously..) could make something happen with that.

It's quite the possibility.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Yeah, so we'll see if all of those Jersey kids are heading to Rutgers or if they're going to California, essentially.

I guess the real thing is, so many of these programs already have things figured out that it seems the real trickle-down might be to 2nd tier programs. It'd be crazy if say, a MAC program got a bunch of PSU second-string kids and provided they were any good (big if, obviously..) could make something happen with that.

It's quite the possibility.

That's a good point, national recruits still won't be going to Syracuse (or maybe even Rutgers). But the top half of the Big East (c. 2002): BC, VT, Pitt, et. al., would probably have been more successful at getting many of the recruits in the PSU pool...

[muns]

Originally Posted by SportsDino

To properly takedown the statue they should have decapitated it and used the head as a chamberpot, then melted it down for scrap and sell it to a junkyard and donate the resulting couple of bucks to charity. Joe A.R. Paterno's legacy would be overpriced at that amount, but for once it would actually go towards bettering off someone but that old shithead and his goons.

you do know its gonna go back up right??

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

That's a good point, national recruits still won't be going to Syracuse (or maybe even Rutgers). But the top half of the Big East (c. 2002): BC, VT, Pitt, et. al., would probably be more successful at getting many of the recruits in the PSU pool...

I guess if you're a kid that wants to play now, do you essentially waste two years in Happy Valley redshirting and then benching next year, when maybe that school that offered you a schollie when you were a 7th grader has a recruiter on the phone talking you into "coming home" and helping them out now as a starter.

Those are the guys who have decisions to make. The starters might not really see any reason to leave, save for having a chance at a bowl and at that, maybe only the NFL-types would be the ones to bolt because it'll cost them money to stay in State College.

But...the ones who are content to marry their college girlfriend they met at PSU and who aren't going to the league and who grew up 3-4 hours away? I doubt they're transferring to Temple.

If it was the NFL, guys would sit around and wait until injuries and then suit up Week 5 for some new program, but since it's not...they've got to decide right now.

I think if you're a young guy who is managing to get into a starting gig this year, maybe you use this year as a contract year to raise your stock, get on some radars and then try to find a new school for your next 2-3 years.

Fascinating stuff from this perspective.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I guess if you're a kid that wants to play now, do you essentially waste two years in Happy Valley redshirting and then benching next year, when maybe that school that offered you a schollie when you were a 7th grader has a recruiter on the phone talking you into "coming home" and helping them out now as a starter.

Those are the guys who have decisions to make. The starters might not really see any reason to leave, save for having a chance at a bowl and at that, maybe only the NFL-types would be the ones to bolt because it'll cost them money to stay in State College.

But...the ones who are content to marry their college girlfriend they met at PSU and who aren't going to the league and who grew up 3-4 hours away? I doubt they're transferring to Temple.

If it was the NFL, guys would sit around and wait until injuries and then suit up Week 5 for some new program, but since it's not...they've got to decide right now.

I think if you're a young guy who is managing to get into a starting gig this year, maybe you use this year as a contract year to raise your stock, get on some radars and then try to find a new school for your next 2-3 years.

Fascinating stuff from this perspective.

Yeah, you have some real decisions to make, if you are a PSU football player right now. As much as many of us (I can especially be guilty of this) question the academic qualifications of many 1-A revenue sport athletes to the point of derision, you can't help but feel for the tough decision-making that they may be facing. And to your point, football will be only one of many factors in influencing whether they stay or go: family and friends, academic continuity, geography, etc could all come into play...

[SportsDino]

Originally Posted by muns

you do know its gonna go back up right??

Not if they properly demolish the stupid statue. Why should it ever be allowed to return? The way to punish the behavior this scandal is about is to demean and destroy the image of Paterno to show a bunch of years of football doesn't justify child rape. The taint from Joe Paterno's crimes (his crimes of Pride and Greed, in addition to Sloth and Vanity) should be so disgusting that the thought of saying "but overall he was okay" should be sickening.

It should get to the point that the stupidest of Penn State morons wants nothing more than to sweep everything about the scumbag under the rug and 'just move on'. They can't have their football program back and their 'hero' too... he needs to become just Joe "The AssRaper's Best Friend" Paterno, Joe "Shithead", Joe "My Paycheck is More Important Than Your Son", Joe Conspiracy Paterno the dipshit who cost Penn State billions of dollars and embarassed the entire damn state.

Kill the cover up culture, shine so much light on it that maybe people start to question whether it is okay to commit a crime if you think you can get away with it. The apathy of people is sickening, the 'dog eat dog while raping another dog' mentality is rotting everything in our society.

[Grover]

Originally Posted by muns

you do know its gonna go back up right??

Why would they ever put the statue back up? Caving to peer pressure from the student base and alumni?

His name is still on the library as a reminder for everybody to stay quiet inside.

[Ben E Lou]

Starting RB...

USC has notified PSU it is recruiting Redd, per source
— Joe Schad (@schadjoe) July 24, 2012