werewolf LIV! Terror at the country club (GAME OVER WOLVES WIN) - Page 41

Alan T · 09-15-2007, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

This may be hard to believe, but this is the first game where, as a wolf, I was one of the last players standing. I've been a surviving winner as a villager (several times), but as a wolf I almost always get lynched within the first two or three days.

Thanks for running the game, Lathum. I had a lot of fun.

I think alot of that is due to you killing me early

When I died, I had a feeling that barkeep and hoops were good, and you and Mr.bug were bad. Wasn't sure on the others at the time.

The next day or two I flip flopped on some people as I watched along. Like one day I felt hoops was bad because of the way he was questioning. Later on I felt path and Pass both might be bad. Didn't ever have a read on Purdue brad until the whole vote switch thing.

So is that why I was killed early.. you knew once I had it in my head to go after you , I would be a pain in the butt?

EagleFan · 09-15-2007, 11:02 PM

Dammit, I should have gone with my first feeling about him. Oh well, good game all.

Lathum · 09-15-2007, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

you knew once I had it in my head to go after you , I would be a pain in the butt?

some things never change

st.cronin · 09-15-2007, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

I think alot of that is due to you killing me early

When I died, I had a feeling that barkeep and hoops were good, and you and Mr.bug were bad. Wasn't sure on the others at the time.

The next day or two I flip flopped on some people as I watched along. Like one day I felt hoops was bad because of the way he was questioning. Later on I felt path and Pass both might be bad. Didn't ever have a read on Purdue brad until the whole vote switch thing.

So is that why I was killed early.. you knew once I had it in my head to go after you , I would be a pain in the butt?

I don't remember precisely why we picked you. It may have been we were trying to set somebody else up for lynch, and thought a night kill of you would make somebody else look bad, but I don't really remember what the dynamics of the game were on that day. I do know that we weren't really scared of anybody on day 2. We were flying high from day 2 to whichever day it was when GoldenEagle made his infamous tie vote, and then Crim survived at night.

Neon_Chaos · 09-15-2007, 11:07 PM

I loved how everything went according to my plan on Day 1 (except that very very very lucky RPI lynch).

As the convert, I really had only one objective: weed out the seer ASAP.

Thanks to AlanT for putting that vote on me, allowing me to whine and cry to attract attention.

Fake-reveal. Vote switch.

If the seer didn't reveal himself, I would have led everyone on a wild goose chase.

As it is, the real seer was lynched, so I basically did my job.

Wolves got me on night 1.

I love this game.

st.cronin · 09-15-2007, 11:10 PM

Neon, I thought about this later, but what you should have also done is: As soon as RPI was lynched, you should have turned around and fake-revealed as the BODYGUARD. That actually would have been semi-plausible, and would have been awesome beyond belief.

EagleFan · 09-15-2007, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oliegirl

ef, you are going to cost us the game, I'm a villager...you need to change your vote to cronin if its not too late.

I offered earlier to hand off the serving tray but no one replied...so you can't use that I still have it against me.

I was actually thinking about logging back in and changing again but figured just to go with it at this point. Wishing I had reconsiidered now. I leanred a lot abuot going with my feelings instead of letting others influence that. I never had a negative read on you but heard enough from others the past few days to get you linked with Pass in my mind. It seemed that hoops trusted cronin enough that I figured to go against my gut. Oh well, a learning experience.

EagleFan · 09-15-2007, 11:12 PM

Also, thank you to Lathum for the game and for putting up with my early game PM's with the psetering questions.

EagleFan · 09-15-2007, 11:13 PM

Now a question for the wolves. Why did I get left alive? Until cronin did me in at the end that is.

st.cronin · 09-15-2007, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Now a question for the wolves. Why did I get left alive? Until cronin did me in at the end that is.

Let me see if I can re-cap the kills.

Night 1 - Neon, obvious, he was either the seer or the goth or a loose cannon villager.
Night 2 - Alan T, not sure (possibly to set up Barkeep or hoopsguy for lynch)
Night 3 - Telle, had revealed as bodyguard, another obvious move
Night 4 - DaddyTorgo - demonstrated his Duke power, an obvious move
Night 5 - Crim - This was actually a very confused choice, we had a number of different candidates we were thinking about. I don't think we realized Crim was the bartender at the time, but he had a high degree of trust.
Night 6 - ???? I forget who path was after, maybe RA? Anybody know?
Night 7 - Chief Rum, had killed path
Night 8 - Raiders Army, it was between GoldenEagle and Raiders Army, I thought it slightly more likely that hoops would pass GE the golf club.
Night 9 - hoopsguy, I don't know what would have happened had I let him live, but I felt like I could sell oliegirl to the other two players if he was dead, the other combinations didn't seem as attractive to me.

The pattern was to always try to eliminate the most trusted player. GoldenEagle was often a candidate, but unlike DT or Telle or Chief Rum, there was never a night when he was far and away the best candidate.

Lathum · 09-15-2007, 11:34 PM

Cronin, GoldenEagle didn't play

st.cronin · 09-15-2007, 11:36 PM

Um, read EagleFan for GoldenEagle, sorry.

EagleFan · 09-15-2007, 11:38 PM

question to hoops: what made you trust cronin to give him the club, or did you even give him the club?

sebastian0622 · 09-15-2007, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Dammit, I should have gone with my first feeling about him. Oh well, good game all.

Exactly. Damn. Like I said, he beat us fair and square.

I just didn't have trust for Olie, and that ultimately made things a crapshoot in the end. Perhaps had she been more vocal it would have created a better trail, but as it was we had sort of a limited--excuse my academic nature--sample size from which to draw correlations. St. Cronin was an active enough player that his dormancy in going out of his way to put things together (hoopsguy style) made me exceedingly wary and nervous of him in the end, but when put in the balance with Olie, well, I figured I'd rather lose to someone who really worked hard in the balance throughout the game than let someone get away with mostly lurking. That's how StC won it--he managed to stick through to the end without leaving an obvious hairy trail. Sure, in all retrospect and revisionism, it will probably look obvious, but in the moment, he really did play a hell of a game.

Not a knock on you, Olie, at all, just to clear any misconceptions up; I found myself being pretty quiet. I'm new, and this is a hard game to manipulate, especially against experienced players.

But...THANKS EVERYONE! This was a cool experience, even for just for the limited time I was involved. Even following along before I participated was cool. For a game as ridiculously simple as Mafia/Werewolf is, the strategy is incredibly complex.

Congrats St. Cronin and wolf team for your well-deserved (yet close!) victory!

EagleFan · 09-15-2007, 11:43 PM

To the wolves: What went down on night 5? Was that entirely orchestrated or a last minute thing?

st.cronin · 09-15-2007, 11:48 PM

Night 5 we did not expect a tie, for one thing. I forgot exactly what the final order we sent in was, but at one point path was considering fake-revealing as the bartender. I think the plan was that we wanted Chief Rum lynched, and then hoops would have been night killed. But then we also said, if path gets lynched, kill somebody else (Render, maybe), and if a 3rd party is lynched, kill Crim. But we didn't really think that was too likely, and we didn't even think about a tie (at least I didn't).

Lathum · 09-15-2007, 11:50 PM

Sebastian, I hope you will join us for future games.

If you think St.Cronin was a good wolf....

hoopsguy · 09-15-2007, 11:57 PM

Why did I trust Cronin? Well, I didn't trust Raiders because it felt like every one of his posts for a couple of days went like this:

"I think hoops is a wolf. VOTE HOOPS"
"I'll change my vote to the vote leader, but if that is a villager and Hoops is still alive tomorrow then I'm voting him for sure"

That sort of stuff is so typical of wolf play, and it was so damn repetitive, that it got my tilted to the point where I discounted his item pass to Crim. So I wasn't passing the item to him.

I trusted Eagles, but thought they would go away from him because I had announced the item. If I had not announced it, then I would have quietly passed it to Eagles and we probably have a little different game. But the best move to do was to move it to Chief the night before. Dumb, dumb, dumb - and I didn't even think of it. I suck at this game sometimes.

Anyway, back to Cronin. The others in the game were Pass (who I thought was a wolf), Olie (not saying much at all except "I still have an item"), MrDNA (Sebastian not yet with us), and Arlington who was pretty low volume posting as well. So it was time to make some assumptions on who I wanted to play with to get the win. And I chose poorly. Mostly because of a bad read this game, with a smidge of guilt from previous games thrown in to cement the selection.

Very mixed bag game for me - extreme highs and lows in terms of results from my play. I want to be in that end-game situation every time as a villager, but it is frustrating when you look back and there are a slew of things that you could have done differently that would likely have changed the outcome.

Good game to the wolves. Must have been a blast playing without a seer all game long.

Good game to the villagers for making it as close as we did after a miserable start.

EagleFan · 09-16-2007, 12:04 AM

I apologize to the villagers for letting you down in the end.

Definitely a learnign experience. I need to be a little more reliant on my own feelings when it gets down to the end game (if I make it that far again).

Definitely a fun experience. I can see how this can get addictive.

st.cronin · 09-16-2007, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleFan

I apologize to the villagers for letting you down in the end.

Definitely a learnign experience. I need to be a little more reliant on my own feelings when it gets down to the end game (if I make it that far again).

Definitely a fun experience. I can see how this can get addictive.

I thought you played very well, you had me really terrified for the last couple of days.

Chief Rum · 09-16-2007, 01:33 AM

Wow, way to go, cronin and the rest of the wolves.

I know it's going to sound dumb now, but I KNEW IT! Freakin' a, how many times did I tell myself that and type it out, too, in this game? But I talked myself out of it, several times.

I went with my gut and killed path, and it worked. And my gut said PB was a wolf shortly before the Crim night kill attempt and cronin was screaming for a lynch all game.

But my gut was also pretty convinced on Neon as an original wolf and on Render as a wolf. I think this is a good game for me to look back on and learn from. There were things I did really well, but some others I didn't.

I always had respect for cronin as a player, so this only raises that estimation. Neon I have a new respect for. Not that he didn't paly well before (he did), but that was a very good move for his role on Day One.

As usual, the game was a mix of luck and of good play. The play of the wolves was terrific. I loved the new players' play, too. Eaglefan and Crim, please continue to join us. You both were active and did very well. sebatsian, I didn't get to play with you, but hopefully you will come back for the next game, and we can meet up there. Arlington Colt, I hope you are back, too, but post more. I doubt MrDNA will ever read this.

For the luck, to get RPI when the wolves did, wow. That was extremely fortunate. So a lot of good play and a little bit of luck had us villagers working uphill from the start.

Back to RPI, I'm a little confused on the opening PM thing. So, he didn't even know he was the seer? Meaning, he didn't know Neon had fake-revealed, and he could have done something about it? It seems to me that actually is rather a key error there, unless I am mistaken. If RPI steps up in the face of a lynch to challenge Neon, this game is completely different.

So I certainly hope that's not what happened.

ArlingtonColt · 09-16-2007, 02:37 AM

I was onto both pass and cronin... I just couldn't find any way to CONVINCE anyone else... they didn't make any glaring mistakes... I just had a feeling and always went with who I thought were wolves, not necessarily with the group. I was trying to get a cronin vote going the night I was lynched, but noone trusted my item usage. In the end it was very fun and I learned ALOT. I need to be sure to take more notes next time in order to backup my votes with hard evidence.

Barkeep49 · 09-16-2007, 07:17 AM

First let me say I suck. Congrats to Neon for a game well played and to cronin for throwing out the fake villager reveal, an idea i'd previously thought about, snagging me. It's a shame I didn't live a day longer as I'd have put forth a futile effort to lynch cronin for misleading me, which might have been successful after my lynching as a villager.

hoopsguy · 09-16-2007, 07:38 AM

The day to get Cronin was when Mr. Bug ended up being lynched. I just didn't understand the case all that well and wish I had pushed harder on this day.

Similarly, I read the wolves protecting the wrong guy on the day that I got swayed over to Render. In other words, they weren't protected Path and RendeR, they were protecting Path and Cronin.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda.

Barkeep49 · 09-16-2007, 07:43 AM

Also, I should point out that the simplest explanation possible was correct for both Neon and I (fake reveal =wolf; only a villager would vigorously defend a wolf on Day 2). Yeah to simplicity even if I forgot it.

Barkeep49 · 09-16-2007, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Back to RPI, I'm a little confused on the opening PM thing. So, he didn't even know he was the seer? Meaning, he didn't know Neon had fake-revealed, and he could have done something about it? It seems to me that actually is rather a key error there, unless I am mistaken. If RPI steps up in the face of a lynch to challenge Neon, this game is completely different.

So I certainly hope that's not what happened.

Were you around that night CR? The way things went down I don't think RPI was around and even if he was there was hardly any time for him to do the "No I'm the seer" bit. It was a hectic time when Neon revealed. So hectic that DT thought he was lynched and outed himself as the Duke. I really think the non PM was a nonstarter.

Lathum · 09-16-2007, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Back to RPI, I'm a little confused on the opening PM thing. So, he didn't even know he was the seer? Meaning, he didn't know Neon had fake-revealed, and he could have done something about it? It seems to me that actually is rather a key error there, unless I am mistaken. If RPI steps up in the face of a lynch to challenge Neon, this game is completely different.

So I certainly hope that's not what happened.

That is indeed what happened and it didn't effect the game at all. Period.

If RPI challenges his reveal then Neon Chaos is killed instead on day 1 and RPIFan is killed that night ( as I had stated, he was their night kill candidate if Neon Chaos was lynched).

In actuality him not knowing helped the village. It saved a villagers life. Since the wolves had no way of knowing their random kill would be the seer, hypotheticaly if he reveals neon is lynched that night, another villager is killed at night then another villager gets lynched the next day instead of Neon Chaos.

I made a mistake, it happens

Alan T · 09-16-2007, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Also, I should point out that the simplest explanation possible was correct for both Neon and I (fake reveal =wolf; only a villager would vigorously defend a wolf on Day 2). Yeah to simplicity even if I forgot it.

That was my take on it. I felt Neon was evil, you were good due to Neon being evil. (Of course next time this comes up in a game, we have to wonder if someone is trying to go to second level thinking in that situation)

Thats also why I suddenly suspected St.cronin the day I died and tossed out his name. I felt he was doing a classic job of tossing out an idea and then letting someone else run with it to their own peril. It suddenly felt to me that Cronin caught Barkeep hook, line and sinker there. Barkeep argued the case that Cronin wanted him to which in the end got Barkeep killed by his own team, and let Cronin acomplish his goal without any risk. Thats what triggered me to him and I announced him shortly before I died as someone I was intrigued by in my short list of him and Mr.Bug.

The next day Hoopsguy brought up my death and I wondered if it would lead anyone to cronin, but mostly it was discounted and Cronin slipped through after that. I was completely wrong about Mr.Bug though. I don't fully remember why I had Mr.Bug down on my suspect list, but it probably was for something similar. I was a bit shocked that Mr.Bug wasn't a wolf, but oh well.

Was fun following along after my death. I thought it was an excellent game played by Cronin. About midpoint through the game I thought the wolves were goners because of the items in play. It seemed even without the bodyguard or seer around, the villagers had alot to protect them.

Lathum · 09-16-2007, 08:22 AM

One think I wanted to mention that helped the village alot.

I added a mechanic that I didn't think would actualy come into play but it did. The reason why Crim was able to identify PurdueBrad the night he was attacked was because he was the bartender. If the bartender was attacked and the serving tray protected him he was 100% to identify the attacker.

Because he was a bartender, get it.

PurdueBrad · 09-16-2007, 08:28 AM

Cronin, WAY TO GO!

Good game everybody. It looked for a while like the wolves were going to roll easy but it actually got pretty darn close.

Night five was mentioned and that was our big snafu. We got greedy. We had actions sent in for whether RendeR, Hoops, or Chief got lynched. We simply decided to try to get Chief because that night Hoops would've gone, taking out two of the more experienced players. Instead, with the tie, nobody went, our plan was for Crim, he pulled the block and reveal which then also led to us losing Pass that next day as well.

Basically starting day three I tried to be a bit more bold and out there because eventually we knew we were going to have to take the trade-off of my life for villagers. When day five finally came, I decided that we could possibly get a 4-1 trade if I was obnoxious enough and switched late enough. So my real goal was to get Chief lynched, Hoops at night, I figured I would be the vote the next day but as Brutal I was going to take Crim with me, and then that night we would've taken someone else. This would've kept Pass around and been a pretty devastating play to the villagers. Sadly, no luck.

Anyway, had a great time and thanks to Cronin, I'm 2-0 (one villager win where I made it to the end, and now a wolf victory despite the fact that my head is mounted on the wall of some country club!).

Chief Rum · 09-16-2007, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

That is indeed what happened and it didn't effect the game at all. Period.

If RPI challenges his reveal then Neon Chaos is killed instead on day 1 and RPIFan is killed that night ( as I had stated, he was their night kill candidate if Neon Chaos was lynched).

In actuality him not knowing helped the village. It saved a villagers life. Since the wolves had no way of knowing their random kill would be the seer, hypotheticaly if he reveals neon is lynched that night, another villager is killed at night then another villager gets lynched the next day instead of Neon Chaos.

I made a mistake, it happens[/color]

It may be moot, because if RPI wasn't around as BK said, he couldn't have done anything. That said, if I am reading this right, I disagree with you completly that this didn't have an effect.

Did you read at all the pages of debate and discussion on whether Neon was a Goth and how that affected people's play? If RPI knows he is the seer (and if he is around, which maybe he would have been if he knew he was the seer, and not vanilla villager or whatever he was told), Neon gets lynched on Day One, and we know he was the Goth.

Plus, then Telle protects RPI, and who knews what happens with the wolf kill. Maybe that kill still goes for RPI and your BG mechanics and their effect come into play. Maybe they kill someone else who has a huge effect on the game. Who knows?

Look, I'm not going to belabor a mistake, because I know doing this stuff is freakin' hard. I have made tons of mistakes as the moderator, which I know you know. And I had fun playing and thought you by and large did a terrific job. But don't tell me that error didn't have an effect. It most certainly did. In fact, could have changed the entire game.

st.cronin · 09-16-2007, 03:41 PM

Chief, slight correction: Telle was not around at deadline on night 1, so her move (protecting hoops) would not have changed.

Had RPI revealed, what might have happened was: Neon gets lynched, and RPI gets night killed. That was our last order, if Neon gets lynched, kill RPI.

Lathum · 09-16-2007, 03:44 PM

I don't think the fact that Neaon was the Goth had any real effect on peoples gameplay, and like Cronin said, Telle wasn't around at the deadline to change he protect order.

Chief Rum · 09-16-2007, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

I don't think the fact that Neaon was the Goth had any real effect on peoples gameplay, and like Cronin said, Telle wasn't around at the deadline to change he protect order.

It had a real effect on my play, and you can certainly say I had an effect on the game.

Chief Rum · 09-16-2007, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Chief, slight correction: Telle was not around at deadline on night 1, so her move (protecting hoops) would not have changed.

Had RPI revealed, what might have happened was: Neon gets lynched, and RPI gets night killed. That was our last order, if Neon gets lynched, kill RPI.

That limits the damage, yes, but I still say the fact alone that Neon would have been the known Goth would have changed people's play and what we discussed, and really the whole direction of the game. We spent pages debating about Neon as Goth. Heck, you should know--you and I went at it tons in this game over that very same issue.

st.cronin · 09-16-2007, 04:12 PM

It certainly would have changed the game, but I think what Lathum means is that it would have been neutral in terms of advantaging the village or the wolves. I mean, at least some part of why people went after path was because they thought he was protecting Neon on day 1.

st.cronin · 09-16-2007, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

First let me say I suck. Congrats to Neon for a game well played and to cronin for throwing out the fake villager reveal, an idea i'd previously thought about, snagging me. It's a shame I didn't live a day longer as I'd have put forth a futile effort to lynch cronin for misleading me, which might have been successful after my lynching as a villager.

I shouldn't take too much credit for that - remember, at the time, I had no idea what Neon's role actually was. We certainly thought he MIGHT be the goth, but I think we thought it more likely he was the seer. I'd thought about fake-revealing as villager, myself, in other games.

Barkeep49 · 09-16-2007, 04:39 PM

I'll still maintain that a false villager reveal is not the end of the world and that lying can be beneficial to the village in the right situations and is not automatically evil.

st.cronin · 09-16-2007, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I'll still maintain that a false villager reveal is not the end of the world and that lying can be beneficial to the village in the right situations and is not automatically evil.

I absolutely agree.

Alan T · 09-16-2007, 04:55 PM

Well, in the future I likely would play it the exact same way every time.. assume they are bad and not waste more time on them unless given some reason to.

I've done false reveals as a villager before several times, but thats a bit different than saying you are the seer when you aren't

Alan T · 09-16-2007, 06:30 PM

Chief, less WW talk and more smack talk for our game in FOFC-BBCF league tonight! I predict you should pull off the upset and beat me 42-35!

EagleFan · 09-16-2007, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

Chief, less WW talk and more smack talk for our game in FOFC-BBCF league tonight! I predict you should pull off the upset and beat me 42-35!

I think your "smack talk" needs a little work...

Chief Rum · 09-16-2007, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EagleFan

I think your "smack talk" needs a little work...

Ditto. lol

And I'm about to go over to the site and see how hard I got my teeth kicked in. Yeah, my smack talk needs work, too.

Crim · 09-17-2007, 12:22 AM

Great game, cronin! Well, I guess I can wear my two consecutive blocks on you as my only evidence of doing anything right this game. Hoops is right, the game could have really gone either way the day we lynched Bug. As one of the vocal leaders of that debacle, I feel a lot of responsibility for it, but live and learn, right? I definitely had a great time, and appreciate the warm welcome from you vets.

Thanks for running it, Lathum!

RPI-Fan · 09-17-2007, 09:58 AM

Saying that I didn't know I was the seer not effecting the game is LAUGHABLE.

Day 1 could have gone totally different (protections, etc.) and it's preposterous to say it didn't effect the game.

With that said, it was a mistake and mistakes happen and it's just a game so it's not a big deal. But let's just leave it at that and move on??

DaddyTorgo · 09-17-2007, 08:41 PM

just got back. So who were the damm wolves?

Neon_Chaos · 09-17-2007, 08:58 PM

Me (convert), path, st.cronin, PurdueBrad, Passacaglia

DaddyTorgo · 09-18-2007, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Me (convert), path, st.cronin, PurdueBrad, Passacaglia

aaaah

bastards. Guess I should have duked onto path or pass instead of molson. gdamit!!!

EagleFan · 09-18-2007, 02:57 PM

nah, you should have duked onto cronin.

New rule: Always duke to cronin...

hoopsguy · 09-18-2007, 03:13 PM

Another area where RPI knowing he was seer would likely have come into play - if he had posted on this, we would not have had Barkeep defending Neon on Day 2 and getting himself knifed by RendeR as a result.

Oh well, that is the way the cookie crumbles ... I hope that this doens't distract people too much from what I considered to be a very fun game.

09-15-2007, 11:07 PM	#2005
Neon_Chaos Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Parañaque, Philippines	I loved how everything went according to my plan on Day 1 (except that very very very lucky RPI lynch). As the convert, I really had only one objective: weed out the seer ASAP. Thanks to AlanT for putting that vote on me, allowing me to whine and cry to attract attention. Fake-reveal. Vote switch. If the seer didn't reveal himself, I would have led everyone on a wild goose chase. As it is, the real seer was lynched, so I basically did my job. Wolves got me on night 1. I love this game. __________________ Come and see.

09-15-2007, 11:10 PM	#2006
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Neon, I thought about this later, but what you should have also done is: As soon as RPI was lynched, you should have turned around and fake-revealed as the BODYGUARD. That actually would have been semi-plausible, and would have been awesome beyond belief. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

09-15-2007, 11:36 PM	#2012
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Um, read EagleFan for GoldenEagle, sorry. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

09-15-2007, 11:48 PM	#2016
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Night 5 we did not expect a tie, for one thing. I forgot exactly what the final order we sent in was, but at one point path was considering fake-revealing as the bartender. I think the plan was that we wanted Chief Rum lynched, and then hoops would have been night killed. But then we also said, if path gets lynched, kill somebody else (Render, maybe), and if a 3rd party is lynched, kill Crim. But we didn't really think that was too likely, and we didn't even think about a tie (at least I didn't). __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

09-16-2007, 07:17 AM	#2023
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	First let me say I suck. Congrats to Neon for a game well played and to cronin for throwing out the fake villager reveal, an idea i'd previously thought about, snagging me. It's a shame I didn't live a day longer as I'd have put forth a futile effort to lynch cronin for misleading me, which might have been successful after my lynching as a villager. Last edited by Barkeep49 : 09-16-2007 at 07:24 AM.

09-15-2007, 11:02 PM	#2002
EagleFan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Mays Landing, NJ USA	Dammit, I should have gone with my first feeling about him. Oh well, good game all.

09-15-2007, 11:12 PM	#2008
EagleFan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Mays Landing, NJ USA	Also, thank you to Lathum for the game and for putting up with my early game PM's with the psetering questions.

09-15-2007, 11:13 PM	#2009
EagleFan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Mays Landing, NJ USA	Now a question for the wolves. Why did I get left alive? Until cronin did me in at the end that is.

09-15-2007, 11:34 PM	#2011
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	Cronin, GoldenEagle didn't play

09-15-2007, 11:38 PM	#2013
EagleFan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Mays Landing, NJ USA	question to hoops: what made you trust cronin to give him the club, or did you even give him the club?

09-15-2007, 11:43 PM	#2015
EagleFan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Mays Landing, NJ USA	To the wolves: What went down on night 5? Was that entirely orchestrated or a last minute thing?

09-15-2007, 11:50 PM	#2017
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	Sebastian, I hope you will join us for future games. If you think St.Cronin was a good wolf....

09-15-2007, 11:57 PM	#2018
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Why did I trust Cronin? Well, I didn't trust Raiders because it felt like every one of his posts for a couple of days went like this: "I think hoops is a wolf. VOTE HOOPS" "I'll change my vote to the vote leader, but if that is a villager and Hoops is still alive tomorrow then I'm voting him for sure" That sort of stuff is so typical of wolf play, and it was so damn repetitive, that it got my tilted to the point where I discounted his item pass to Crim. So I wasn't passing the item to him. I trusted Eagles, but thought they would go away from him because I had announced the item. If I had not announced it, then I would have quietly passed it to Eagles and we probably have a little different game. But the best move to do was to move it to Chief the night before. Dumb, dumb, dumb - and I didn't even think of it. I suck at this game sometimes. Anyway, back to Cronin. The others in the game were Pass (who I thought was a wolf), Olie (not saying much at all except "I still have an item"), MrDNA (Sebastian not yet with us), and Arlington who was pretty low volume posting as well. So it was time to make some assumptions on who I wanted to play with to get the win. And I chose poorly. Mostly because of a bad read this game, with a smidge of guilt from previous games thrown in to cement the selection. Very mixed bag game for me - extreme highs and lows in terms of results from my play. I want to be in that end-game situation every time as a villager, but it is frustrating when you look back and there are a slew of things that you could have done differently that would likely have changed the outcome. Good game to the wolves. Must have been a blast playing without a seer all game long. Good game to the villagers for making it as close as we did after a miserable start.

09-16-2007, 12:04 AM	#2019
EagleFan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Mays Landing, NJ USA	I apologize to the villagers for letting you down in the end. Definitely a learnign experience. I need to be a little more reliant on my own feelings when it gets down to the end game (if I make it that far again). Definitely a fun experience. I can see how this can get addictive.

09-16-2007, 01:33 AM	#2021
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	Wow, way to go, cronin and the rest of the wolves. I know it's going to sound dumb now, but I KNEW IT! Freakin' a, how many times did I tell myself that and type it out, too, in this game? But I talked myself out of it, several times. I went with my gut and killed path, and it worked. And my gut said PB was a wolf shortly before the Crim night kill attempt and cronin was screaming for a lynch all game. But my gut was also pretty convinced on Neon as an original wolf and on Render as a wolf. I think this is a good game for me to look back on and learn from. There were things I did really well, but some others I didn't. I always had respect for cronin as a player, so this only raises that estimation. Neon I have a new respect for. Not that he didn't paly well before (he did), but that was a very good move for his role on Day One. As usual, the game was a mix of luck and of good play. The play of the wolves was terrific. I loved the new players' play, too. Eaglefan and Crim, please continue to join us. You both were active and did very well. sebatsian, I didn't get to play with you, but hopefully you will come back for the next game, and we can meet up there. Arlington Colt, I hope you are back, too, but post more. I doubt MrDNA will ever read this. For the luck, to get RPI when the wolves did, wow. That was extremely fortunate. So a lot of good play and a little bit of luck had us villagers working uphill from the start. Back to RPI, I'm a little confused on the opening PM thing. So, he didn't even know he was the seer? Meaning, he didn't know Neon had fake-revealed, and he could have done something about it? It seems to me that actually is rather a key error there, unless I am mistaken. If RPI steps up in the face of a lynch to challenge Neon, this game is completely different. So I certainly hope that's not what happened.

09-16-2007, 02:37 AM	#2022
ArlingtonColt H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: arlington, tx	I was onto both pass and cronin... I just couldn't find any way to CONVINCE anyone else... they didn't make any glaring mistakes... I just had a feeling and always went with who I thought were wolves, not necessarily with the group. I was trying to get a cronin vote going the night I was lynched, but noone trusted my item usage. In the end it was very fun and I learned ALOT. I need to be sure to take more notes next time in order to backup my votes with hard evidence.

09-16-2007, 07:38 AM	#2024
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	The day to get Cronin was when Mr. Bug ended up being lynched. I just didn't understand the case all that well and wish I had pushed harder on this day. Similarly, I read the wolves protecting the wrong guy on the day that I got swayed over to Render. In other words, they weren't protected Path and RendeR, they were protecting Path and Cronin. Woulda, coulda, shoulda.

09-16-2007, 07:43 AM	#2025
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	Also, I should point out that the simplest explanation possible was correct for both Neon and I (fake reveal =wolf; only a villager would vigorously defend a wolf on Day 2). Yeah to simplicity even if I forgot it.

09-16-2007, 08:22 AM	#2029
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	One think I wanted to mention that helped the village alot. I added a mechanic that I didn't think would actualy come into play but it did. The reason why Crim was able to identify PurdueBrad the night he was attacked was because he was the bartender. If the bartender was attacked and the serving tray protected him he was 100% to identify the attacker. Because he was a bartender, get it.

09-16-2007, 08:28 AM	#2030
PurdueBrad Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: DeKalb, IL	Cronin, WAY TO GO! Good game everybody. It looked for a while like the wolves were going to roll easy but it actually got pretty darn close. Night five was mentioned and that was our big snafu. We got greedy. We had actions sent in for whether RendeR, Hoops, or Chief got lynched. We simply decided to try to get Chief because that night Hoops would've gone, taking out two of the more experienced players. Instead, with the tie, nobody went, our plan was for Crim, he pulled the block and reveal which then also led to us losing Pass that next day as well. Basically starting day three I tried to be a bit more bold and out there because eventually we knew we were going to have to take the trade-off of my life for villagers. When day five finally came, I decided that we could possibly get a 4-1 trade if I was obnoxious enough and switched late enough. So my real goal was to get Chief lynched, Hoops at night, I figured I would be the vote the next day but as Brutal I was going to take Crim with me, and then that night we would've taken someone else. This would've kept Pass around and been a pretty devastating play to the villagers. Sadly, no luck. Anyway, had a great time and thanks to Cronin, I'm 2-0 (one villager win where I made it to the end, and now a wolf victory despite the fact that my head is mounted on the wall of some country club!).

09-16-2007, 03:41 PM	#2032
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Chief, slight correction: Telle was not around at deadline on night 1, so her move (protecting hoops) would not have changed. Had RPI revealed, what might have happened was: Neon gets lynched, and RPI gets night killed. That was our last order, if Neon gets lynched, kill RPI. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

09-16-2007, 03:44 PM	#2033
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	I don't think the fact that Neaon was the Goth had any real effect on peoples gameplay, and like Cronin said, Telle wasn't around at the deadline to change he protect order.

09-16-2007, 04:12 PM	#2036
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	It certainly would have changed the game, but I think what Lathum means is that it would have been neutral in terms of advantaging the village or the wolves. I mean, at least some part of why people went after path was because they thought he was protecting Neon on day 1. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

09-16-2007, 04:39 PM	#2038
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	I'll still maintain that a false villager reveal is not the end of the world and that lying can be beneficial to the village in the right situations and is not automatically evil.

09-16-2007, 04:55 PM	#2040
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	Well, in the future I likely would play it the exact same way every time.. assume they are bad and not waste more time on them unless given some reason to. I've done false reveals as a villager before several times, but thats a bit different than saying you are the seer when you aren't

09-16-2007, 06:30 PM	#2041
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	Chief, less WW talk and more smack talk for our game in FOFC-BBCF league tonight! I predict you should pull off the upset and beat me 42-35!

09-17-2007, 12:22 AM	#2044
Crim College Benchwarmer Join Date: Dec 2003	Great game, cronin! Well, I guess I can wear my two consecutive blocks on you as my only evidence of doing anything right this game. Hoops is right, the game could have really gone either way the day we lynched Bug. As one of the vocal leaders of that debacle, I feel a lot of responsibility for it, but live and learn, right? I definitely had a great time, and appreciate the warm welcome from you vets. Thanks for running it, Lathum!

09-17-2007, 09:58 AM	#2045
RPI-Fan Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Troy, NY	Saying that I didn't know I was the seer not effecting the game is LAUGHABLE. Day 1 could have gone totally different (protections, etc.) and it's preposterous to say it didn't effect the game. With that said, it was a mistake and mistakes happen and it's just a game so it's not a big deal. But let's just leave it at that and move on?? __________________ Quis custodiets ipsos custodes?

09-17-2007, 08:41 PM	#2046
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	just got back. So who were the damm wolves?

09-17-2007, 08:58 PM	#2047
Neon_Chaos Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Parañaque, Philippines	Me (convert), path, st.cronin, PurdueBrad, Passacaglia __________________ Come and see.

09-18-2007, 02:57 PM	#2049
EagleFan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Mays Landing, NJ USA	nah, you should have duked onto cronin. New rule: Always duke to cronin...

09-18-2007, 03:13 PM	#2050
hoopsguy General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago	Another area where RPI knowing he was seer would likely have come into play - if he had posted on this, we would not have had Barkeep defending Neon on Day 2 and getting himself knifed by RendeR as a result. Oh well, that is the way the cookie crumbles ... I hope that this doens't distract people too much from what I considered to be a very fun game.

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