The Obama Presidency - 2008 & 2012

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

Overall I think the DC community is very happy with how President Obama has attempted to immerse himself in the city. How will that play nationally? I don't know. People love that he goes to Ben's (although I'm pissed that it has brought all the tourists and made the lines intolerable), plays basketball at local rec centers, etc. We are used to presidents like Bush that never go out on the town (I did not live here during any other presidencies). The city loved Obama before he arrived, and he has only furthered that by being as much a part of the community as a President can. The only thing he could have done to further his image is send his daughters to public school.

I'd add that DC is more accepting of a Democrat president due to the general demographics and party leanings of the citizens. He'd definitely get a more rosier reception than a Republican president.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I'd add that DC is more accepting of a Democrat president due to the general demographics and party leanings of the citizens. He'd definitely get a more rosier reception than a Republican president.

As I said, he was loved before he got here. Having said that, if Bush spent time going to Ben's Chili Bowl instead of heading to his ranch in Texas, I have no doubt that Washingtonians would have a higher opinion of him.

I don't believe Clinton spent a lot of time in the city, either. Chelsea went to private school. Amy Carter went to DC Public Schools and that made Jimmy much more loved by Washingtonians.

We have a real inferiority complex here, seeing as how we are treated as second-class citizens by the U.S. Government. Seeing a President that wants to partake in the life you live can do a lot for morale.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

Having said that, if Bush spent time going to Ben's Chili Bowl instead of heading to his ranch in Texas, I have no doubt that Washingtonians would have a higher opinion of him.

And that's really just a cultural difference. People out here in flyover country just don't enjoy life in places like D.C. It's fun to visit, but wouldn't want to live there. We want open space and friendly people. I've been out in that area and here in Missouri and I'm well aware of the stark cultural differences.

Conversely, people in places like D.C. or NYC wonder how in the hell people live without urban areas where you walk or take public transportation everywhere. Obama fits into that culture well because he's from Chicago. Bush and many people that live in the middle of the country want out of that chaos as often as possible. D.C. people don't get that.

There's nothing wrong with either of them. It's just a totally different way of life, so it's shouldn't be surprising to anyone that Obama fits in well and Bush does not even with political leanings set aside.

[SFL Cat]

Not a bad speech. I look forward to seeing if there is any meat behind it.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

Not a bad speech. I look forward to seeing if there is any meat behind it.

That's what she said.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

And that's really just a cultural difference. People out here in flyover country just don't enjoy life in places like D.C. It's fun to visit, but wouldn't want to live there. We want open space and friendly people. I've been out in that area and here in Missouri and I'm well aware of the stark cultural differences.

Conversely, people in places like D.C. or NYC wonder how in the hell people live without urban areas where you walk or take public transportation everywhere. Obama fits into that culture well because he's from Chicago. Bush and many people that live in the middle of the country want out of that chaos as often as possible. D.C. people don't get that.

There's nothing wrong with either of them. It's just a totally different way of life, so it's shouldn't be surprising to anyone that Obama fits in well and Bush does not even with political leanings set aside.

It's not that we don't get that. It's that a) he lived here and never once went into the city, b) the federal government is based in DC, c) people (republicans generalized) think it's fine to deny Washingtonians their rights but don't even want to come to the city because of infrastructural issues (or just plain dislike of a city)

We "get" that people don't like the city. That has nothing to do with the fact that Bush NEVER spent any time in DC outside of the White House.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

Not a bad speech. I look forward to seeing if there is any meat behind it.

My sentiments as well. Good speech- now time to put some actions behind those pretty words.

SI

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

now time to put some actions behind those pretty words.

That's what she said.

[Schmidty]

Same old style over substance in my opinion.

Then again, Obama can do no wrong in Democrat eyes*. Barack Obama: Get zombified!!!!



*And he can do no right for Republicans, of course.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Then again, Obama can do no wrong in Democrat eyes*

*And he can do no right for Republicans, of course.

You know, I really don't feel that this is true. I think it might be true for those who like to argue politics on message boards, but I don't think it's true up and down the line. It seems to be a simplification that makes fighting the fight easier in a way that reminds me of the recent atheism vs. christianity thread, where often nuance was lost in the desire to score a point. FWIW, I've been registered Republican since 18, but I voted for Obama and have been mostly happy with him so far. I think I've been happier about him than many of my liberal friends.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

Not a bad speech. I look forward to seeing if there is any meat behind it.

Doubt it does.

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Shouldn't we keep the focus on the gays and Mexicans?

I have problems with the statement by Obama, but not for the xenophobic reasons SFL Cat does...blah, blah, blah.

Dude, I'm not xenophobic. My dislike for Obama is totally personal. I've been totally pissed at him ever since he showed up at one of my Klan rallies a few years ago and shouted, "Where are the white women?"

[Noop]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

Dude, I'm not xenophobic. My dislike for Obama is totally personal. I've been totally pissed at him ever since he showed up at one of my Klan rallies a few years ago and shouted, "Where are the white women?"

Really?

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Noop

Really?

Please tell me you're joking, Noop.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Please tell me you're joking, Noop.

I don't think he is in the klan but you can never be to sure.

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by Noop

I don't think he is in the klan but you can never be to sure.

Funny, you say that....I thought the prerequesite for being a Seminole fan was to be a member in good standing of the Klan...that, and having sex with barnyard animals at least once a month...

[Passacaglia]

I also don't think Obama actually showed up at a klan rally, but hey, you never can be too sure.

[SFL Cat]

Dude, video proof....

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Same old style over substance in my opinion.

Then again, Obama can do no wrong in Democrat eyes*. Barack Obama: Get zombified!!!!



*And he can do no right for Republicans, of course.

I don't see where you're getting this. There were all of two comments in this thread and both were basically "cute speech, now do something"

SI

[Noop]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

Funny, you say that....I thought the prerequesite for being a Seminole fan was to be a member in good standing of the Klan...that, and having sex with barnyard animals at least once a month...

I should slap you in the face. You just described a Gator fan except you didn't include the jhorts and a mullet.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I don't see where you're getting this. There were all of two comments in this thread and both were basically "cute speech, now do something"

SI

I didn't read the thread. I was referring to what I've seen and heard since Obama took office.

Look, I have no personal animosity toward him, but I'm disturbed by the reverence the guy gets despite his lack of any executive experience. It's just sheep-like. I'm not saying everyone's like that, but the vast majority of citizens that support Obama support him because of his persona and legend, not his specific policies and decisions.

Either way, I hope the US thrives during his reign, because I love this country and I want it to succeed. I just don't think his aspirations for a huge federal government will take us in that direction.

[RainMaker]

I don't see how anyone can judge a President this quick. Takes years for their policies to take effect and decide whether they worked or not.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't see how anyone can judge a President this quick. Takes years for their policies to take effect and decide whether they worked or not.

You kind of just supported my point.

[Galaxy]

Indiana Teachers and Cops vs. Chrysler - BusinessWeek

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Indiana Teachers and Cops vs. Chrysler - BusinessWeek

I don't know bankruptcy law, so I don't know how this should come out, but when you are buying anything for 43 cents on the dollar, you have to assume that you are taking a fair amount of risk.

If I had a pension, and that plan started doing things like buying debt of troubled companies at deep discounts, I would be mad as hell at the pension managers. There is a time and a place to take that kind of risk, and a pension fund for teachers and cops isn't it.

All that said, maybe the law is on their side and, if so, I hope that the Second Circuit rules in their favor. Equal justice under law.

[Edward64]

Added a poll. Wanted to get your opinion after the 100 days.

[Surtt]

I can not think of one campaign promise that he has kept (that I care about).

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Interesting graph here. The lines represent the Democrat estimates from January of what unemployment would do if the stimulus were passed and what it would look like if it were not passed. Well, the stimulus was passed, yet the actual unemployment numbers have landed well above what was estimated if it wasn't passed according to the Democrats.

stimulus-vs-unemployment-may2.gif

Big wins for conservative lawmakers over in Europe. Claims abound that the conservative stance against stimulus packages and large deficits were a key in the gains.

Conservatives racing ahead in EU parliament voting - Yahoo! News

More attacks on Obama's perceived excesses while traveling. I do think Grassley's comments come off a bit silly, but Obama's staff has to be very careful in handling these perceptions. The press tried to paint the whole trip as a return to the Kennedy presidency, yet it was then noted that the first lady and the kids had to stay for shopping, showing them going into VERY expensive boutiques. That's not going to fly well with people who continue to struggle to make ends meet.

Grassley: Obama's "Got Nerve" To Push Lawmakers From Paris

Also, I have deep concerns about the Obama plan to expedite stimulus spending in 2009. It didn't seem that important to do that when the bill was passed. Now with Obama's approval numbers wavering, he suddenly wants to speed it up? You can't build up a record deficit soon enough I suppose.

[miked]

As an aside, is this really how people tweet?

Grassley's first tweet: "Pres Obama you got nerve while u sightseeing in Paris to tell us 'time to deliver' on health care. We still on skedul/even workinWKEND."

A short time later: "Pres Obama while u sightseeing in Paris u said 'time to delivr on healthcare' When you are a 'hammer' u think evrything is NAIL I'm no NAIL."

I mean, I know it's twitter, but does he have an 8th grade edukation??

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

I think the real question is who let Grassley's grandson on his computer-box.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by miked

As an aside, is this really how people tweet?

Grassley's first tweet: "Pres Obama you got nerve while u sightseeing in Paris to tell us 'time to deliver' on health care. We still on skedul/even workinWKEND."

A short time later: "Pres Obama while u sightseeing in Paris u said 'time to delivr on healthcare' When you are a 'hammer' u think evrything is NAIL I'm no NAIL."

I mean, I know it's twitter, but does he have an 8th grade edukation??

I'm not a 'tweeter', but my understanding is that those abbreviations and dropping vowels in words are relatively common due to the limit on the characters (think it's 140 or something like that). The 'k' instead of 'ch' in words also saves a character.

With that said, I'm not sure that our leaders should be using that forum to voice their opinion.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I'm not a 'tweeter', but my understanding is that those abbreviations and dropping vowels in words are relatively common due to the limit on the characters (think it's 140 or something like that). The 'k' instead of 'ch' in words also saves a character.

With that said, I'm not sure that our leaders should be using that forum to voice their opinion.

The idea isn't to get your opinion out. His staff is probably tweeting that to rile up the #tcot and true red blood conservatives who hang out on Twitter and who hate the President in the same way that Dems hated Bush, only without the track record.

Twitter is simply a medium to communicate ideas, engage your base or incite an angry mob.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

The idea isn't to get your opinion out. His staff is probably tweeting that to rile up the #tcot and true red blood conservatives who hang out on Twitter and who hate the President in the same way that Dems hated Bush, only without the track record.

Twitter is simply a medium to communicate ideas, engage your base or incite an angry mob.

I'd agree that it's little more than a form of a partisan blog, but I don't have any question that it is his opinion.

[Young Drachma]

For the poll, there should've been an "about what I expected..." option.

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Conservatives racing ahead in EU parliament voting - Yahoo! News

I wish we weren't stuck with a two-party system. I'd love to see fringe parties get seats in Congress more often.

"The Hungarian far-right Jobbik party won three of 22 seats, with the main center-right opposition party, Fidesz, capturing 14 seats and the governing Socialists only four.

Jobbik describes itself as Euro-skeptic and anti-immigration and wants police to crack down on petty crimes committed by Gypsies."

"An exit poll in Sweden showed the Pirate Party, which advocates shortening the duration of copyright protection and allowing noncommercial file-sharing, capturing one seat with 7.4 percent of the vote."

There were a few white-only and/or anti-Muslim parties as well. Far more interesting than boring old Democrats and Republicans.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

I wish we weren't stuck with a two-party system. I'd love to see fringe parties get seats in Congress more often.

"The Hungarian far-right Jobbik party won three of 22 seats, with the main center-right opposition party, Fidesz, capturing 14 seats and the governing Socialists only four.

Jobbik describes itself as Euro-skeptic and anti-immigration and wants police to crack down on petty crimes committed by Gypsies."

"An exit poll in Sweden showed the Pirate Party, which advocates shortening the duration of copyright protection and allowing noncommercial file-sharing, capturing one seat with 7.4 percent of the vote."

There were a few white-only and/or anti-Muslim parties as well. Far more interesting than boring old Democrats and Republicans.

Our system requires too much money for that to work here. It would indeed make things more interesting and would diversify the nature of our minor parties beyond what we have now.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Our system requires too much money for that to work here. It would indeed make things more interesting and would diversify the nature of our minor parties beyond what we have now.

Proportional representation at the state level would change things quite a bit.

[CamEdwards]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

There were a few white-only and/or anti-Muslim parties as well. Far more interesting than boring old Democrats and Republicans.

Yeah, now the EU has fascists in it. Good thing fascism doesn't have a long and terrible history in Eur... er, nevermind.

BTW, thought this was really interesting, given that virtually everyone is calling the BNP a "far-right wing party". The Press Association says: "The BNP wins came as the party appeared to attract significant numbers of disaffected Labour voters."

[Fighter of Foo]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

Yeah, now the EU has fascists in it. Good thing fascism doesn't have a long and terrible history in Eur... er, nevermind.

BTW, thought this was really interesting, given that virtually everyone is calling the BNP a "far-right wing party". The Press Association says: "The BNP wins came as the party appeared to attract significant numbers of disaffected Labour voters."

Example 5,082 why terms like left-wing, right-wing, conservative, liberal, Democrat, Republican, etc. are fucking useless and should be purged from any political discussion, especially when referring to a group of people and/or their beliefs.

Essay on this for the one person reading this who cares: George Orwell, "Politics and the English Language," 1946

EDIT: See any of literally thousands of examples referring to "enhanced interrogation techniques" as a synonym for "torture."

[RainMaker]

Anyone who believed the Democrats numbers on unemployment was living in a different dimension. There is no way that money could have ever gotten into the economy that quickly.

I think the bigger problem is the lack of consistency with the government. This goes for both administrations. They kind of handle economic issues differently on a daily basis. Companies can't anticipate what is going to happen so they just say "fuck it, we'll lay people off to be safe". I guess the good news is that it looks like the worse of the layoffs are over and hopefully we can turn the corner by the end of the year.

[Galaxy]

How is this going to help healthcare? Won't you just hurt those companies and people who do get healthcare?

Will health insurance ‘haves’ pay for ‘have-nots’? - White House- msnbc.com

Is Obama nuts with his idea to pay for healthcare?

Terms of Service

Who does he think pretty much funds the arts, healthcare research and improvements, education in our country (in terms of the large private money/donations)? I still haven't seen a plan in to actually "fix" healthcare costs.

As much as I hate the conservatives, Obama is becoming just as bad in my view.

[RainMaker]

That plan ultimately hurts small businesses more than anything. Large companies will just pass along the difference by reducing salaries. It's small businesses like myself that utilize that tax benefits for my own health insurance that will be hit.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

Yeah, now the EU has fascists in it. Good thing fascism doesn't have a long and terrible history in Eur... er, nevermind.

I'm fascinated to see what they can do with 2 votes. Maybe they can build a coalition with the Pirate Party.

BTW, thought this was really interesting, given that virtually everyone is calling the BNP a "far-right wing party". The Press Association says: "The BNP wins came as the party appeared to attract significant numbers of disaffected Labour voters."

Take "significant numbers" with a grain of salt, as apparently this election had record low turnout (and turnout for European Parliament elections is typically very low, especially in Britain).

Citation needed (from The Press Association), I think.

[CamEdwards]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

I'm fascinated to see what they can do with 2 votes. Maybe they can build a coalition with the Pirate Party.



Take "significant numbers" with a grain of salt, as apparently this election had record low turnout (and turnout for European Parliament elections is typically very low, especially in Britain).

Citation needed (from The Press Association), I think.

The Daily Mail- The neo-fascist party sent shockwaves through Westminster by winning two seats as voters turned their back on the political establishment.

...

Its share reached 16 per cent in Barnsley, 15 per cent in Rotherham and nearly 12 per cent in Doncaster - all Labour strongholds

The Telegraph- (headline) European elections 2009: BNP successes 'horrific' say main parties
The major political parties have condemned as "horrific" the election of two BNP candidates to the European Parliament after a dismal showing at the polls for Labour

...

It was the first time the party had won seats in a national election and its first in a parliament or assembly.

I realize that since we have divergent political views, you may be inclined to automatically dismiss anything and everything I post that has to do with politics, but I would hope you would at least recognize that this is troubling in a way that Sweden electing two members of the Pirate Party is not.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

I realize that since we have divergent political views, you may be inclined to automatically dismiss anything and everything I post that has to do with politics,

I think you have me confused with someone else.

but I would hope you would at least recognize that this is troubling in a way that Sweden electing two members of the Pirate Party is not.

Troubling, but not catastrophic. Other European parties have elected similarly extreme parties to the European Parliament, and Europe has not fallen apart (which is more a commentary on the standing of the European Parliament, to be fair).

Vlaams Belang: +2 seats
Austria Freedom Party: +2 seats
National Union Attack: +2 seats
National Front: +3 seats

I mean, heck, a political figure with the heft of Jean Marie Le Pen has been there for 5 years and it's not like Europe has turned into a fascist state (yet).

Furthermore most Europeans, and Britons especially, view the European Parliament elections as a chance to vote (if they do at all, and most don't) in a manner that registers their dislike for the more mainstream parties.

[RainMaker]

It would be interesting if we had more democratic elections to see what kind of people get represented in Washington. I'd imagine the House would have 15-20 hardcore libertarians, a few dozen green guys, some gays, some racists, and some other weird groups. Would be cool to see them try and work together on stuff.

[tarcone]

Im really starting to lean towards a National Health Care system that provides free health care for all. I would pay some extra tax to make this happen. Im tired of the insurance and pharmaceuticals running the show to make a profit.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Im really starting to lean towards a National Health Care system that provides free health care for all. I would pay some extra tax to make this happen. Im tired of the insurance and pharmaceuticals running the show to make a profit.

Same here. I actually think it would help the economy long term.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by tarcone

Im really starting to lean towards a National Health Care system that provides free health care for all. I would pay some extra tax to make this happen. Im tired of the insurance and pharmaceuticals running the show to make a profit.

Or perhaps people could stop going to the doctor for every little thing, stop taking a pill for every little thing, and have costs go down naturally.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by rowech

Or perhaps people could stop going to the doctor for every little thing, stop taking a pill for every little thing, and have costs go down naturally.

That is not the reason costs are high. In fact, some would argue that seeing a doctor more frequently and getting more preventative health care would help reduce the overall cost down the road.