Obama versus McCain (versus the rest)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Yeah, I agree. Geez I can actually see his white hood all the way from Colorado.

Nah. That's just the turbans Obama bin Biden's are wearing.

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Yeah, I agree. Geez I can actually see his white hood all the way from Colorado.

Originally Posted by Daddy-O

Well played sir.

LOL for real.

Originally Posted by Me

I usually don't attempt to engage in adult discussions here...it's generally pointless, especially in regards to politics.

Thank you lovely gents for making my point. Now go chill and vote for Barrack Hussein Obama bin Biden this November.

[SFL Cat]

dola -- and if he does win, I'll certainly be here to watch your political orgasms.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

Thank you lovely gents for making my point. Now go chill and vote for Barrack Hussein Obama bin Biden this November.

*ignore list*

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

*ignore list*

*sniff*

[molson]

Sincere question for Obama supporters:

-Who would you most "fear" as a McCain VP? Understanding of course that VPs don't mean much (that's no fun though). Who could have McCain picked that would make you think, "shit, that's a good pick", and be a (mild) punch to your stomach?

[Crim]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Pretty much scored exactly where I figured:

how did you guys post that chart?

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by molson

-Who would you most "fear" as a McCain VP?

My two cents

IMO Mike Huckabee would have been the best choice. I sincerely doubt that picking Palin is going to bring Clinton's supporters to McCain. If anything, some might get offended at the thought of McCain picking her to appeal to them. Huckabee would solidify the conservative base behind McCain, is well known, and I think he's a genuinely likeable person. We know he can certainly hold his own during a debate as well. His demeanor and the way he speaks to an audience would have been a great counter to Biden-the-Attack-Dog.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Crim

how did you guys post that chart?

Right click on the image after taking the test and pick "Copy Image Location" (or something like that).

[Crim]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

correction of my earlier post. Apparently, the Buffy the Vampire slayer thing was a rumor. Her kid is named Willow, but not based on the character from the show.

Don't know if that'll change anyone's vote or not.

Bolded part lolled me.

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by sabotai

My two cents

IMO Mike Huckabee would have been the best choice. I sincerely doubt that picking Palin is going to bring Clinton's supporters to McCain. If anything, some might get offended at the thought of McCain picking her to appeal to them. Huckabee would solidify the conservative base behind McCain, is well known, and I think he's a genuinely likeable person. We know he can certainly hold his own during a debate as well. His demeanor and the way he speaks to an audience would have been a great counter to Biden-the-Attack-Dog.

Actually, I think if Huckabee had been the guy, Obama's people would have immediately launched a "look, McCain has picked a religious-right wacko for his running mate," style attack. I think the Obama team would have loved this scenario.

[Crim]

Okay, let's see if this works...




Right about where I expected to be, but I'll echo others that the wording of a coupla questions was problematic. I hadda go with two "maybes".

[Vegas Vic]

Pretty much what I expected:

[Arles]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

Actually, I think if Huckabee had been the guy, Obama's people would have immediately launched a "look, McCain has picked a religious-right wacko for his running mate," style attack. I think the Obama team would have loved this scenario.

Yep, McCain hit the jackpot with Palin. With one choice, he made his candidacy more attractive to independent/moderate women, shored up the conservative base and added a jolt of electricity to the ticket right before the convention.

Had McCain named Romney, Liebermann, Pawlenty, Huckabee or Ridge, most republicans would be feeling defeatist going into next week's convention after Obama's very good performance Thursday night. Now, Obama's speech is a distant memory and everyone is excited about seeing this new ticket on parade next week.

Now, does this mean McCain wins? I don't know, I still see it as a bit of a longshot given the political climate. Still, the process has suddenly become very interesting for conservatives - something I didn't think would be possible just weeks ago.

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by Arles

Now, does this mean McCain wins? I don't know, I still see it as a bit of a longshot given the political climate. Still, the process has suddenly become very interesting for conservatives - something I didn't think would be possible just weeks ago.

agreed.

[stevew]

Maybe they were spoonfeeding her on the CNBC interview I saw with her, but she seemed good enough for me. Too bad she actually accepted the nod, and gets to go down on the USS McFailure.

I mean, regardless, the party is fucked beyond belief. It's going to take 10-12 years to fix the damage Bush has done. Hopefully by then they boot out all the old guard republicans who are way too owned by special interests.

Ah well, only like 5 more months of the Romanov dynasty left.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by molson

Sincere question for Obama supporters:

-Who would you most "fear" as a McCain VP? Understanding of course that VPs don't mean much (that's no fun though). Who could have McCain picked that would make you think, "shit, that's a good pick", and be a (mild) punch to your stomach?

I think to me, the answer involves both meanings of the word "fear."

I think Huckabee would have brought out a lot of the single-issue Republican voters who might otherwise have sat things out...

...and I would be scared shitless at the prospect of him being anywhere remotely close to the Presidency. Enough that I'd be volunteering for the Obama campaign instead of merely considering myself likely to vote for him at this stage.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by stevew

I mean, regardless, the party is fucked beyond belief. It's going to take 10-12 years to fix the damage Bush has done.

A mediocre candidate that doesn't inspire even the base, an iffy choice for a running mate, trying to succeed an incumbent that isn't exactly Mr. Popularity ... and they're neck & neck after the DNC party and within hours of it's end all the attention is on McCain.

Never mind the politics of either side, the Dems ought to have been in position for a coronation & yet even pessimistic ol' doom & gloom me has already figured out that if McCain doesn't screw up he's probably going to pull this off.

Seems to me that the one that keeps winning probably isn't the one that gets to wear the "fucked beyond belief" label. But I have to admit watching the D's snatch defeat from the jaws of victory is kinda fun.

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

yet even pessimistic ol' doom & gloom me has already figured out that if McCain doesn't screw up he's probably going to pull this off.

heh - you might want to reevaluate your self-characterization

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by molson

Sincere question for Obama supporters:

-Who would you most "fear" as a McCain VP? Understanding of course that VPs don't mean much (that's no fun though). Who could have McCain picked that would make you think, "shit, that's a good pick", and be a (mild) punch to your stomach?

Bill Clinton. If he ran as McCain's running mate, Obama's camp would certainly need to worry.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Which is a loftier decision than Obama has ever had to make.

I don't think you understand the stakes involved in community organizing, to pick but one example.

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

No, but I'm not discounting it either. Clinton was the governor of itty bitty Arkansas, and yet many of you consider him the greatest president ever.

Prove it (the bolded part). I don't think there's a single FOFC member here who feels this way. Prove it.

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

dola -- on top of that, Palin has actually had a career outside of politics, something I don't think any of the other candidates can claim, unless you want to count McCain's military service.

Obama's worked as a community organizer, as a lawyer, as a lecturer and in a research firm, as well as being involved in a good number of boards.

Originally Posted by molson

Sincere question for Obama supporters:

-Who would you most "fear" as a McCain VP? Understanding of course that VPs don't mean much (that's no fun though). Who could have McCain picked that would make you think, "shit, that's a good pick", and be a (mild) punch to your stomach?

For me, it was Colin Powell. I didn't think it would happen, but I did see it bandied about a bit.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by molson

Sincere question for Obama supporters:

-Who would you most "fear" as a McCain VP? Understanding of course that VPs don't mean much (that's no fun though). Who could have McCain picked that would make you think, "shit, that's a good pick", and be a (mild) punch to your stomach?

I would have been most uncomfortable with Romney. I think he could have helped shore up McCain in his biggest areas of weakness (economy, fundraising, solidifying his base) and have boosted McCain past Obama in Western swing states (New Mexico, Colorado, Nevada). He also has more of the suddenly all-important executive experience as Palin. I think Obama has to win 2 of those 3 states in order to win the general. I think his religion may have hurt McCain, a bit, in the South -- but not enough to swing things to Obama.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Arles

Yep, McCain hit the jackpot with Palin. With one choice, he made his candidacy more attractive to independent/moderate women, shored up the conservative base and added a jolt of electricity to the ticket right before the convention.

Had McCain named Romney, Liebermann, Pawlenty, Huckabee or Ridge, most republicans would be feeling defeatist going into next week's convention after Obama's very good performance Thursday night. Now, Obama's speech is a distant memory and everyone is excited about seeing this new ticket on parade next week.

Now, does this mean McCain wins? I don't know, I still see it as a bit of a longshot given the political climate. Still, the process has suddenly become very interesting for conservatives - something I didn't think would be possible just weeks ago.

By all acounts, Palin is far more conservative than McCain, so I'm not sure how attractive she is going to be to independent/moderate voters. I think she will substantially help to rally the base, but her views on creationism, abortion, and (I think the charge she is going to be attacked on most, aside from inexperience) cronyism will stand out to voters once the initial "wow" factor subsides.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Arles

You mean the Don Young who was connected to both the Abramoff debacle (adn.com | alaska : Young linked to Abramoff's tribal clients) and one of the main culprits in the Veco scandal? (adn.com | Alaska political investigations : Paper reports Young's Veco ties investigated in federal probe)


You mean the Frank Murkowski who was a complete disaster as governor, created a ton of wasteful spending and left office with a whopping 14% approval rating because of scandals/spending?


About the only thing that would hurt Palin from those two winners would be a complete endorsement. Why don't we just ask Jack Ryan his opinion of Obama while we're at it.

And it will still be all over the media.

[JPhillips]

dola

-Who would you most "fear" as a McCain VP? Understanding of course that VPs don't mean much (that's no fun though). Who could have McCain picked that would make you think, "shit, that's a good pick", and be a (mild) punch to your stomach?

Palin is a good political choice, even if it's rather nakedly so. The Republican crowd yesterday cheering for Hillary was a bit too much IMO.

The guy that would really scare me is Jesus. A McCain/Jesus ticket would be tough to beat.

[Big Fo]

Who would you most "fear" as a McCain VP? Understanding of course that VPs don't mean much (that's no fun though). Who could have McCain picked that would make you think, "shit, that's a good pick", and be a (mild) punch to your stomach?

I thought Huckabee would have been a better choice, he seemed likable, appeals to the religious right, and did pretty well in the primaries. Also, people couldn't say he was blatantly chosen for his gender.

But fear is the wrong word since I fear none of them and feel that the Democrats have an excellent chance of winning the election regardless of who was chosen.

[timmynausea]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

And it will still be all over the media.

That's exactly what I was going to say.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by molson

Sincere question for Obama supporters:

-Who would you most "fear" as a McCain VP? Understanding of course that VPs don't mean much (that's no fun though). Who could have McCain picked that would make you think, "shit, that's a good pick", and be a (mild) punch to your stomach?

Who he has picked Paulin. She was a great choice and really well timed and played. I mean there has been not a peep on TV about Obamas speech really amazing considering how good it was.

[Jas_lov]

Palin was McCain's best choice. Huckabee is a lunatic, Romney is a flip flopper, Libermann is a democrat, Pawlenty is boring. Palin gets the base enthusastic and helps with the women vote. The VP matters the most in the VP debate. The bar for her vs. Biden will be so low, but she can't have a major flop or this will be a big disaster. Palin should also probably get up to speed on Iraq.

[timmynausea]

I think you guys gushing over Palin may have missed the post about how she isn't actually a Buffy fan.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Arles

Yep, McCain hit the jackpot with Palin. With one choice, he made his candidacy more attractive to independent/moderate women, shored up the conservative base and added a jolt of electricity to the ticket right before the convention.

I love this notion that ex-Hillary supporters or women in general who were on the fence will (or may) now shift their support/vote to McCain because he picked a woman as his running mate.

I mean, seriously, people are acting as if women could care less about the issues or a politician's views on any number of subjects and will just vote: VAGINA!!!!

Yeah, we've come a long way, baby...

That is all. See you in November!

[JPhillips]

I can see the bumper stickers already:

Don't Blame Me
I Voted Vagina!

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

The guy that would really scare me is Jesus. A McCain/Jesus ticket would be tough to beat.

The Romney campaign worked hard to point out that while he has clearly spent lots of time in the states, he is not a natural-born American, and therefore ineligible to seek the office. BULLET DODGED.

[JPhillips]

Very nice.

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

The guy that would really scare me is Jesus. A McCain/Jesus ticket would be tough to beat.

What!? He has ZERO executive experience!

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by sabotai

My two cents

IMO Mike Huckabee would have been the best choice. I sincerely doubt that picking Palin is going to bring Clinton's supporters to McCain. If anything, some might get offended at the thought of McCain picking her to appeal to them. Huckabee would solidify the conservative base behind McCain, is well known, and I think he's a genuinely likeable person. We know he can certainly hold his own during a debate as well. His demeanor and the way he speaks to an audience would have been a great counter to Biden-the-Attack-Dog.

Sab, but the "replace the Constitution with the Scriptures" thing would get a lot of play, don't you think? The two most common words I have seen about Palin are "inexperience" and "reformer". Those two would be much more positive, relatively, then those atrributed to Huckabee.

[Buccaneer]

Quiksand, I had forgotten to check worthwhilemoney this week to see what the GOP VP shares had been running, particularly before Wednesday. Do you recall?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Who he has picked Paulin. She was a great choice and really well timed and played. I mean there has been not a peep on TV about Obamas speech really amazing considering how good it was.

Exactly. McCain is dominating the TV cycle. And Palin, while lacking experience, is someone that evangelicals just LOVE (and McCain needed to shore up his base) and, in addition, has a rep as an ethical reformer and a fighter or entrenched political machines, even if they are in her own party.

[John Galt]

Palin, because she is a largely unknown quantity, is like a new EA game at FOFC. Initial excitement is very high and supporters will love the selection for a few days. The real test is how everyone will feel about her in a month. The opinions and impressions today are unrelated to how people will feel later.

For prior examples of this honeymoon effect, see every EA game ever posted on this board and the experience of Barack Obama. EA games never hold up well. Obama has done alright, but the luster is clearly gone for a lot of people. Who knows how Palin will look in a month?

And SFL Cat is a racist tool.

[ISiddiqui]

Tigh/Roslin '08

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by John Galt

Palin, because she is a largely unknown quantity, is like a new EA game at FOFC. Initial excitement is very high and supporters will love the selection for a few days. The real test is how everyone will feel about her in a month. The opinions and impressions today are unrelated to how people will feel later.

Nice one

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by John Galt

For prior examples of this honeymoon effect, see every EA game ever posted on this board and the experience of Barack Obama. EA games never hold up well. Obama has done alright, but the luster is clearly gone for a lot of people. Who knows how Palin will look in a month?

You would have to factor in the case that there were a lot of people, of all political persuasions, rooting for Obama to beat the Clintons.

I think in a month, the bigger question will be how McCain will look, not Palin. Same for Obama.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I think in a month, the bigger question will be how McCain will look, not Palin. Same for Obama.

I agree that the VP selection doesn't matter as much - I'm just trying to temper the emotions of those who are a bit enthused by the selection of Palin. However, barring some major mistake or scandal, public opinion of McCain and Obama won't change much at all. 95% of the American public doesn't follow politics to 1/10th of the degree that pundits assume.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Sab, but the "replace the Constitution with the Scriptures" thing would get a lot of play, don't you think?

Yeah, as someone said earlier, Hackabee is a lunatic, but one that the religious right loves. He's just too nice of a guy to hate because of his insanity, and I've always thought that above everything else, elections are simply popularity contests. Huckabee is a likeable, popular person and anyone who would be turned off by his religious nutbaggery wasn't voting for McCain anyway.

[Apathetic Lurker]

Originally Posted by JPhillips;

Not true. Obama was a
[B

lawyer[/b] and law professor. McCain worked for his father-in-law's beer distributorship. Biden was a lawyer.

There ya go. Now its obvious who would be better for America. Take the guy who drops off the kegs over the ambulance chasers

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

Yes, I feel soooo much more confident seeing Osama bin Bama negotiating that treaty.

Tell me, how have the local Klan meetings been going? Must be harder to recruit these days.

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I love this notion that ex-Hillary supporters or women in general who were on the fence will (or may) now shift their support/vote to McCain because he picked a woman as his running mate.

I mean, seriously, people are acting as if women could care less about the issues or a politician's views on any number of subjects and will just vote: VAGINA!!!!

Yeah, we've come a long way, baby...

That is all. See you in November!

And nobody is voting for Obama because he's black also, right?

That's not saying that is the only reason he's getting votes but when you have people voting for one guy cause he's black, people voting for a woman because they're a woman isn't quite the stretch you try to make it sound. I'd suggest coming back to reality where race, gender and political affiliation actually do effect the way people vote.

Hell, people vote for candidates because Oprah or Madonna like them. We just don't have any of them on this board (I don't think).

She'll get votes because she's a woman, and she'll lose them because she's a woman. Just like Obama will because he's black. As far as we've come, there are still lots of people who want things to stay the same. That's what makes this election, and McCain's choice historic - because no matter what it's going to create change in the perception for women, and/or minorities. In the end, that'll only be the only change we are guaranteed which isn't such a bad thing.

[DaddyTorgo]

honestly -- my last big fear about this election is exemplified by SFL Cat. We like to claim we're a progressive society, that we don't see race anymore, but to what extent are we kidding ourselves? What % of the electorate simply won't vote for Obama because of the color of his skin, or his name? I think that's got to be a real concern actually, because I think that there is a vocal minority who we can be sure won't (exemplified by SFL Cat), but that's just the "tip of the iceberg" and like a real iceberg, the vast majority of it is underwater.

[molson]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

What % of the electorate simply won't vote for Obama because of the color of his skin, or his name?

Deattribution brings up a good point though - what % of the electorate will vote for Obama simply because he, as he loves to say, "doesn't look like your typical presidential candidate".

I'm sure its a substantial number. We can't know which number is bigger.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

A mediocre candidate that doesn't inspire even the base, an iffy choice for a running mate, trying to succeed an incumbent that isn't exactly Mr. Popularity ... and they're neck & neck after the DNC party and within hours of it's end all the attention is on McCain.

Never mind the politics of either side, the Dems ought to have been in position for a coronation & yet even pessimistic ol' doom & gloom me has already figured out that if McCain doesn't screw up he's probably going to pull this off.

Seems to me that the one that keeps winning probably isn't the one that gets to wear the "fucked beyond belief" label. But I have to admit watching the D's snatch defeat from the jaws of victory is kinda fun.

I guess I mean "fucked beyond belief" on a personal level. These don't fit the mold of what I think a republican should be. It's going to take several toilet flushes to get rid of the majority of these "conservative" jokers.

Anyways, yeah, if McCain wins it'll be hilarious.