Werewolf XXXIV: Tombstone (GAME OVER - Night 13)

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Bullet, I would like you to use the money to bribe Alan T into allowing you to have another showdown.

i wish

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Well if I just couldn't help but look at women, as Glengoyne does, I wouldn't be shy about it either .

This is true. You are at least telling the truth about this, although that gives us little else.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Lathum

BK seems to have a more helpfull role up to this point. IMO if chubby confirms that BK did not have a gun on his person I am willing to give him some slack. I just don't understand lsg's game, if we lynch her and she comes up good we can at least look at the people she was mentioning, especially path who was pretty quick to reply. I'm going to hold tight but if chubby confirms no knife I am probably gonna vote to lynch lsg.

Let me be clear about my vote to lynch. I am frustrated with the lazy play of 'oh, so and so is quiet so they must be bad' when it is DEMONSTRABLY NOT TRUE. Plus, I think we've pretty much established Spleen as the coroner which in my mind anyway lends himself to be a villager. She should know that. Instead, what she is doing is sitting in jail saying 'I don't know anything, I don't have any role or powers, but I should be free and we should jail X instead' with no reasoning behind it.

So with that being the case, rather than the sheriff wasting one of his night actions on freeing anyone, we should do the lynch and put two more people in jail so that we have a group to choose from. You want to put me in that group? Fine -- I don't care about that. What I care about is getting these motherfuckin' cowboys out of this motherfuckin' town!

[path12]

One quick dola. LSG calls Glen, myself and Spleen suspicous because we're "quiet".

As of now, post counts:
Spleen -- 4th at 136 posts
Glen -- 6th with 107 posts
path -- 7th with 97 posts

LSG -- 12th with 82 posts.

[SnDvls]

well that sucks..good luck all.

[LoneStarGirl]

Well path I could get together about 20 worththless posts right now if you want me to. But I choose not to play that way. thanks

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

This is true. You are at least telling the truth about this, although that gives us little else.

Actually, it gives us a little more than this. If Chubby is willing to confirm the results of the Barkeep scan then that also indicates that Barkeep did the scan on that night.

So Barkeep could not have done the kills without a weapon and can account for having taken a night action on two other nights. Not necessarily the nights he has indicated he did the scans (unless you can confirm this, Glen), but it is a start.

[ntndeacon]

perhaps we need to pool resourses and see who has a gun and who doesn't ...maybe that will help us find the cowboy or cowboys with guns. We know there is at least 1.

[hoopsguy]

I've got a gun, as stated earlier.

There are a bunch of different ways to work with this information, but are we also putting a target on these people's backs in terms of night actions? I can see pros and cons to taking this approach.

[Racer]

I don't have a gun.

[Abe Sargent]

Dammit, I'm an Actor, not a Fighter!

[ntndeacon]

a target for night actions and maybe a review of thier posts. one thing in and of it self is not damning but multiple things add up. we know about some people.. the folks that were arrested. and most of that info is out there.

[path12]

I do not have a gun.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Actually, it gives us a little more than this. If Chubby is willing to confirm the results of the Barkeep scan then that also indicates that Barkeep did the scan on that night.

So Barkeep could not have done the kills without a weapon and can account for having taken a night action on two other nights. Not necessarily the nights he has indicated he did the scans (unless you can confirm this, Glen), but it is a start.

I can't identify when BK has performed his scans. I've dined at the local restaurant every evening so far. He could have scanned me any time.

As for my vice. The strength is mild, so I'm not all that susceptible. On top of that, I'm not sure anyone other than CR can take advantage of that situation. Being that I'm confident of CR, at this point, I think I have less to fear.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Lathum

well we have the bartender and the singer in jail so the bar is probably a pretty boring place right about now
...

We did finally let the brothel girl out of jail though.

[Barkeep49]

I also don't think Glengoyne is the best candidate for CR anyway.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

...

Voted for Both GE and Gram:
hoopsguy, Racer, Sndvls(murdered), path, Spleen, lathum, Fouts(murdered),Ntndeacon
...

I'm honestly thinking that there are cowboys on this list. Although there are villagers undoubtedly listed there as well, this is where the cowboys will be found. They would be voting to lynch villagers. Of that, I believe there is little doubt.

[hoopsguy]

Probably, but as someone who is on this list I'm a little skeptical that this is our best filter. People who are voting for lynches can just as easily be people who understand the value gained from a lynch in terms of evaluating the remaining players - in a game with 20+ players we are not going to throw a perfect game. No lynches also mean that we are depending on street justice to get information. It worked well with Cronin, but I don't think we are winning this game without lynching someone with less than complete information.

Time to pull up some voting records for another perspective ...

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

I'm honestly thinking that there are cowboys on this list. Although there are villagers undoubtedly listed there as well, this is where the cowboys will be found. They would be voting to lynch villagers. Of that, I believe there is little doubt.

I happen to agree that this list is an excellent place to find wolves. Like Racer.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I still am of the opinion that we should be lynching, rather than keeping people around in jail. What is the plan for today? Neither BK nor LSG had a weapon, so they did not commit the night kills.

Here are our options if we do not lynch - I personally think they are pretty unattractive:
1.) We can keep them both in jail for another day - this is not going to slow down the killing as there is AT LEAST one Cowboy out there with a gun doing the killings.
2.) We can release one of them - which one is better than the other? Why?
3.) We can release both of them - that means we have no one to lynch the next day

In short, I like sparing would be lynchees we are unsure about, because stringing up a townie only escalates the rate at which the Cowboys gain on us. On the other hand I agree with your assessment, and want more appealing lynch options in the jail.

Option one is bad. I'm not happy with either of them as a lynch option.
Option two is not good. As for which one to release?
We haven't really learned anything about LSG. I still don't have a read on her one way or the other. I have an inkling of trust in Barkeep. That is based only on his votes. So take that for what it is worth. He simply isn't on my short list of potential cowboys.(that one above)
Option three is the worst of the lot.

I think lynching one of them, and arresting two likely suspects might be the best course of action. Of course if the Cowboys have been passing out red sashes in addition to killing folks, then we need every single last villager in the game.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

...
I think lynching one of them, and arresting two likely suspects might be the best course of action. Of course if the Cowboys have been passing out red sashes in addition to killing folks, then we need every single last villager in the game.

Oh I forgot to mention that the only other option I think may be wise would be to take is option number one. Do not lynch anyone, and arrest a single other suspect. The problem is that we HAVE to be right with that arrest.

[hoopsguy]

I went with the approach that the wolves would have the ability to make good decisions with their votes and if we are going after the wrong people with jail decisions then they would not put themselves in a position to be on the wrong end with every lynch decision.

Similarly, we get information from a lynch in terms of voting records, validating stories and relationships, etc. Although there have been people who have advoceated "no lynch" in this game because of info we are collecting (Cronin being among the loudest in that regard) I do not believe this is the case. I would argue, counter to the point made by Glengoyne, that the Cowboys do not want us to lynch. Because that way they are the only people dictating kills. We have to kill them to win the game every day that doesn't feature a lynch limits the Sheriff's actions (free people) and increases the amount of background noise in the game.

We have a pretty small sample set, but here is what I found when I looked for people who have not voted for any lynch on a given day:

Day 1: no one in jail
Day 2 (Lathum and GE): LSG, Anxiety, Swaggs, Chief, Chubby, Bullet, Glen
Day 3 (Swaggs): no one voted to lynch Swaggs
Day 4 (Swaggs, Chief, Gramm): Anxiety, NTN, Chief, Saldana
Day 5 (Chief, LSG): vast majority did not vote for a lynch

Anxiety is the common person voting not to lynch in this game. I am having a hard time believing he is a Cowboy, given his actions on Night 1 and the attempt by Cronin to target Anxiety yesterday.

[hoopsguy]

Jailed and freed:
Lathum
Swaggs
Chief

Did we learn a thing from any of these people while they were in jail?

- Lathum: we learned that he visited Anxiety the night before he was jailed.
- Swaggs: we already knew he was the Mayor from using the vote to save GE. We have since learned that GE was a villager.
- Chief: people paying attention already suspected he was the tramp

I think Swaggs is pretty close to cleared by his actions. The others, not so much in my mind.

Anxiety - did Lathum have a gun when he visited you?

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

Hmmm. I think you should free me, lynch barkeep and jail somebody else.
Somebody quiet. Like Path, or Glen, or Spleen.

This leads me to....

LYNCH LoneStarGirl

If you are what you claim, then killing you off won't hurt us that much. You don't have any value other than keep the villager number up. That's not much value when there is >12 of us left. We don't need you anymore.

[Chubby]

barkeep had no gun, I can confirm that

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Chubby

barkeep had no gun, I can confirm that

that clinches it for me.

lynch lsg

still not sure what to do with barkeep

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

This leads me to....

LYNCH LoneStarGirl

If you are what you claim, then killing you off won't hurt us that much. You don't have any value other than keep the villager number up. That's not much value when there is >12 of us left. We don't need you anymore.

First time I've agreed with you in a couple of days But I'm surprised that you are voting for LSG over Barkeep, who you had been angling for jail earlier. Now that he is in jail are you having a change of heart? Or just waiting for more info to break before voting lynch?

[Barkeep49]

hoops: spleen voted for me right off the bat. I've already had his love. Now he's just showing his love for LSG.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Anxiety - did Lathum have a gun when he visited you?

How would I know that?

[Racer]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

How would I know that?

Saldana should definitely know since he was the one who arrested Lathum on night 1.

[Chief Rum]

Wow, a good day. I have been released (thank you Chubby), and I have a new potential customer (hi Glen!).

Seriously, though, now that I am out, I might be able to help out. I have a couple other night actions besides the straight information one. One is very powerful, but unlikely to succeed, and I don't know if I will ever be able to use it in the game. The other is still pretty innocuous, like getting information froms omeone, but it still might prove useful. I might try that tonight.

I don't have a target in mind yet, and if I don't decide on one, I may not do anything. But then if I do think of a good target, I doubt I would say anyway. That would give too much info to the cowboys.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

First time I've agreed with you in a couple of days But I'm surprised that you are voting for LSG over Barkeep, who you had been angling for jail earlier. Now that he is in jail are you having a change of heart? Or just waiting for more info to break before voting lynch?

I have voted to lynch them both. It just took me a little longer to decide on LSG.

[hoopsguy]

Well, he did meet you at your door on Night 1, correct? Was that information in your PM?

[hoopsguy]

Spleen, sorry I missed it and then called you out ... my bad.

But it did remind me that I had not cast my lynch votes. Surprise, surprise - I think we hang them both and see where we stand at that point.

VOTE LYNCH BARKEEP
VOTE LYNCH LONESTARGIRL

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Anxiety - did Lathum have a gun when he visited you?

hoops, Lathum had a gun, if I recall, from his arrest. It was cool and hadn't been fired (had all six shots). I think that was one of the primary reasons for releasing him.

[hoopsguy]

Current totals (8 needed for lynch):

Barkeep 2 -- Spleen (1937), Hoops (1984)

LSG 4 -- Path (1942), Spleen (1974), Lathum (1976), Hoops (1984)

[hoopsguy]

K, had not been trying to track the guns before today so thanks for the reminder (to both Racer and Chief).

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

I looked in on Racer last night. I do know that he has not succumbed to his vice. (The only one who has was Surprise Surprise Bullett, But we all knew that anyway.)
So Cronin, and Racer did not sucumb. Of course this does not clear Racer, but if there is a converted Cowboy it isn't him.

Do we know what sucumbing to your vice does?

[Barkeep49]

It's weird reading those post #s since it feels like years.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Chubby

Do we know what sucumbing to your vice does?

When bullet succumbed he was unable to vote the next day. I don't know if this is universal or particular to the alochol vice.

[Chubby]

I'm going to have to

Lynch LSG

if only because she isn't being very useful or helpful to the village

[Racer]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Lynch votes so far, as of Post #518. Need 11 to lynch someone:

Lathum 4 -- Hoopsguy (481), St Cronin (493), SnDvls (499), Gram (506)
GoldenEagle 2 -- Hoopsguy (481), Gramm (500)

Since we are currently somewhat discussing Lathum's allegiance, I looked back and found this. St. Cronin was the second person to vote to lynch Lathum at 9:45 a.m CST on 10/10. He became the first person to vote to unlynch Lathum of the four on that list at 12:22 pm CST. I am not sure what to make of this since it is my first game, but would a Cowboy typically be one of the first to vote to lynch his own kind?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

When bullet succumbed he was unable to vote the next day. I don't know if this is universal or particular to the alochol vice.

Wait, what was the mechanic for that happening? I mean, did someone iniate a night action that resulted in this? Or was bulletsponge generally susceptible, perhaps a small percentage chance, that he would succumb to his vice?

Of course, alcohol is the only vice, I think, that doesn't necessarily involve anyone else. Money, power, women, all bring in another person I would imagine. I don't think you could sit there in your house in town and "succumb" to any of those three without someone else executing a night action. A person must bribe you if you have the money vice, a person must make promises of power if you have the power vice, and I suppose I must approach you if you have the woman vice (and I have only approached saldana).

I would like to hear more from bullet on how his alcohol binge from Day 1 came about. That might give us more information about the vices, and how they operate.

[LoneStarGirl]

I will take a lynch for the team. I have nothing useful to contribute, so dont waste a night action freeing me. Lynch me, and put two other people in jail. It is going to suck to lose yet another villager. but that is the price to pay for having a sherrif that does his own thing without listening to his people. Just what im feeling, but I keep going back to racer, path, and glen as suspicious.

[Racer]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

I will take a lynch for the team. I have nothing useful to contribute, so dont waste a night action freeing me. Lynch me, and put two other people in jail. It is going to suck to lose yet another villager. but that is the price to pay for having a sherrif that does his own thing without listening to his people. Just what im feeling, but I keep going back to racer, path, and glen as suspicious.

I agree with you on path and glen as suspicious.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

I will take a lynch for the team. I have nothing useful to contribute, so dont waste a night action freeing me. Lynch me, and put two other people in jail. It is going to suck to lose yet another villager. but that is the price to pay for having a sherrif that does his own thing without listening to his people. Just what im feeling, but I keep going back to racer, path, and glen as suspicious.

Could you elaborate a little on what you find suspicious? I'm not saying you're not right (I am undecided), but I want to know a little more about why you are particularly suspicious about them.

Racer and you were even linked together, I believe, vouching each other off of one word in your PMs. So what changed there?

For path, is it just the quiet thing you were mentioning? Or is there something else?

And as for Glen, that's a tough one for me, because he was staunchly in my court to release me, and other indications I have read here don't sound to me like a wolf.

Sp I thought I would ask you for more details on your feelings on these three.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

I will take a lynch for the team. I have nothing useful to contribute, so dont waste a night action freeing me. Lynch me, and put two other people in jail. It is going to suck to lose yet another villager. but that is the price to pay for having a sherrif that does his own thing without listening to his people. Just what im feeling, but I keep going back to racer, path, and glen as suspicious.

Uh yeah, ok...

Let it be known that I'll be looking hard at any players that claim to have no role. There's twice the amount of possible roles vs players that signed up. I find it highly unlikely that there's vanilla villager roles, you're going to have a role even if it sucks.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

I will take a lynch for the team. I have nothing useful to contribute, so dont waste a night action freeing me. Lynch me, and put two other people in jail. It is going to suck to lose yet another villager. but that is the price to pay for having a sherrif that does his own thing without listening to his people. Just what im feeling, but I keep going back to racer, path, and glen as suspicious.

Could you at least tell us what you do as the singer? I happen to agree with your list of suspects which speaks well of you I think.

[hoopsguy]

The alcohol vice is not enacted by the player. I have it - not too severe a case - and what it translates to is me spending my free time in the bar pounding drinks during night actions. Based on the fact that my PM indicates varying degrees of vices, I suspect that random.org is used to determine if this particular vice comes into play.

I would expect that NTN can confirm what I'm saying about my vice - if there was any dispute about his role I would have requested him to reveal the information but we all know he is the Priest at this point.

[Chief Rum]

Well, I figured it wouldn't be enacted by the player. But I was thinking perhaps Alan does a dice role every night to determine if someone succumbs to their alcohol vice, and that that is what happened to bullet on Day One (or Two, whichever it was). If that can't happen, though, and someone else must be involved as with the other three vices, then that means he was encouraged to drink. So I would wonder who then. And what were those person's intentions? And why has bullet not said anything about that person? Or is it reasoned that getting as drunk as he was, he has forgotten who I spoke to that night?