2008-2009 College Basketball Thread......

[Logan]

Yeah, I'm on board with it.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

The NCAA has plenty of stupid rules but this isn't one of them. I don't remember that play, but I remember other situations where a player appeared to be feigning injury to their advantage. This eliminates that possibility and seems like a good rule change.

As mentioned before, this rule allows the possibility for an opposing coach to foul a player who he knows is already injured and then select a bad free throw shooter to shoot game changing free throws. It also allows the opportunity for a coach to put in a 'goon' to hack a player on the arms hard enough to cause a potential injury, forcing a new player to shoot. It was hoped that the NCAA wouldn't adopt this form of the rule, but they unfortunately have done just that. It'll only take one stupid act this year to force this rule to be changed back. I just hope that player doesn't end up with a permanent injury that affects their career.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

As mentioned before, this rule allows the possibility for an opposing coach to foul a player who he knows is already injured and then select a bad free throw shooter to shoot game changing free throws. It also allows the opportunity for a coach to put in a 'goon' to hack a player on the arms hard enough to cause a potential injury, forcing a new player to shoot. It was hoped that the NCAA wouldn't adopt this form of the rule, but they unfortunately have done just that. It'll only take one stupid act this year to force this rule to be changed back. I just hope that player doesn't end up with a permanent injury that affects their career.

So it is your contention that coaches will start having players intentionally injured to take advantage of this rule?

I have a hard time believing that - and if it were true, there are in-game mechanisms (i.e. Techinical/Flagrant fouls) that are designed to counteract any benefit gained from such behavior.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Unbelievably stupid move, but you can expect nothing less from the NCAA. They've implemented the 'Tiller' rule that allows the opposing coach to choose the FT shooter from the players on the court when an injury occurs..........

NCAA changes rule in wake of University of Missouri Tigers' win over Marquette Golden Eagles in NCAA Tournament - STLtoday.com

What exactly is stupid about it?

Your scenario of someone hitting a player hard enough to intentionally injure them just so they get to pick the shooter would result in:

1) Two free throws AND the ball for the injured team.
2) The fouling player being ejected.
3) Sanctions against the coach (suspension) and school (fine) the second time it happens.

Fouling to injure is just not going to be a viable strategy. Lacking that, what's the downside?

[Logan]

You do know that this has been discussed for quite some time because of guys exaggerating injury right? The world does not revolve around Missouri basketball.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Logan

You do know that this has been discussed for quite some time because of guys exaggerating injury right? The world does not revolve around Missouri basketball.

The complaints from Marquette shortly after the game was what triggered this discussion. I'd love to know why that happened because, as you mentioned, this has been discussed for years. Why was it suddenly a priority to change it so quickly this season? Call it whatever you want........it's a brutal rule change.

[Logan]

I'm not doubting that this is what put it over the edge...that's how bad that game ending was. I'm just saying this isn't the first time it's been discussed.

As for your classification that it's brutal...can't say I see many people, anywhere, agreeing.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Logan

I'm not doubting that this is what put it over the edge...that's how bad that game ending was. I'm just saying this isn't the first time it's been discussed.

As for your classification that it's brutal...can't say I see many people, anywhere, agreeing.

It was several pages back, but there was a discussion that had people on both side of it.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Logan

I'm not doubting that this is what put it over the edge...that's how bad that game ending was. I'm just saying this isn't the first time it's been discussed.

As for your classification that it's brutal...can't say I see many people, anywhere, agreeing.

Funny I thought the fact their player stepped on the inbounds line was why Marquette lost that game. And of course everyone knows that Tiller (who was clutch the entire season) would have missed the free throws that Kim English (The FRESHMAN with a LOWER free throw percentage) made as the substitute. Of course the general public remembers these games about as well as they do in the Super Bowl where the Titans were one yard from "winning" the Super Bowl. (Convinently forgetting the fact that they were down 7 at the time. I guess McNair was going to go for 2) Mizzou led for basically the whole game and was winning during the free throw incident.

[Logan]

Jesus, I meant the reaction to the rule being applied...where did I say Marquette got screwed or Mizzou didn't deserve to win?

Calm yourself.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Logan

Jesus, I meant the reaction to the rule being applied...where did I say Marquette got screwed or Mizzou didn't deserve to win?

Calm yourself.

Actually you said "that's how bad that game ending was".

[Logan]

And hence my clarification. Go read the NBA playoff thread and the reaction to all the technicals, which, 95% of the time have been called correctly but people are still upset about it. This rule was called correctly, doesn't mean it was a good rule...which is why it was changed.

How long have you been waiting to go off on a tangent about public reaction to a Super Bowl from 9 years ago?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Logan

This rule was called correctly, doesn't mean it was a good rule...which is why it was changed.

The argument whether the existing rule was a good one or not is a totally different topic. The new rule was a knee-jerk reaction without little foresight to the possible consequences. But that's par for the course for the NCAA, so no one should be surprised.

[Logan]

I just don't think the "consequences" are anywhere near the level you think they are. The number of instances where a player could actually be intentionally injured to exploit this rule is significantly, significantly less than any player being able to claim that they are hurt when they are smacked across the wrist without any malice or intent to injure.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Logan

I just don't think the "consequences" are anywhere near the level you think they are. The number of instances where a player could actually be intentionally injured to exploit this rule is significantly, significantly less than any player being able to claim that they are hurt when they are smacked across the wrist without any malice or intent to injure.

We haven't even discussed the fact that, injury aside, the idea that the team that broke the rules (i.e. the offending team that fouled the player) is now in control of the selection of the shooter. That's even more ridiculous than the original rule allowing the coach of the team that was fouled to select the shooter. Neither is a great rule, but this is a step backwards rather than an improvement.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Logan

And hence my clarification. Go read the NBA playoff thread and the reaction to all the technicals, which, 95% of the time have been called correctly but people are still upset about it. This rule was called correctly, doesn't mean it was a good rule...which is why it was changed.

How long have you been waiting to go off on a tangent about public reaction to a Super Bowl from 9 years ago?

I use that as an example all the time because to this day I still hear talk radio/ESPN personalities say the Titans were a yard away from winning the Super Bowl. It was just my example of people talking out of their ass about an event they remember incorrectly. I have heard the Mizzou/Marquette game was decided by that play and that is flat out incorrect. (Obviously I am from St. Louis so probably hear this more often than you would)

[Logan]

Fair enough, sorry if I overreacted.

Kind of like how Bill Buckner lost the World Series for the Sox (it was tied at the time)?

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by panerd

Funny I thought the fact their player stepped on the inbounds line was why Marquette lost that game.

You forget the part that the reason he stepped over the line was to pass to a teammate coming open, then stepped over when that player did not come open due to being held....

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Logan

Fair enough, sorry if I overreacted.

Kind of like how Bill Buckner lost the World Series for the Sox (it was tied at the time)?

I don't know that your overeacted at all. No worries.

Your 2nd example is exactly right. Other examples: Bartman and the '85 World Series. I will probably be the only St. Louis Cardinal fan on here who will agree with MBBF on 1985. The missed call on first base didn't cause Jack Clark to drop the foul ball, Todd Worrell to self distruct, or John Tudor to pitch the worst game 7 possibly in the history of baseball.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Samdari

You forget the part that the reason he stepped over the line was to pass to a teammate coming open, then stepped over when that player did not come open due to being held....

I have been friends with a diehard Marquette fan for 20+ years. He refuses to call them the Eagles, still wearing Warriors attire. We watched the Paulding/Wade OT thriller in the tournament back about 8 years ago, he goes on and on about Doc Rivers, I refused to watch last year's game with him but believe me I never heard the end of the Tiller free throw substitution. I used to show him MBBF's posts with Golden Eagle and it cracked him up...

Not once I have ever heard the hold accusation. This one is new to me.

[the_meanstrosity]

What's an injured player doing on the court in the first place? If the player is too injured to shoot free throws then they should be on the bench rather than on the court.

And as other posters have stated, there's plenty of reason (ejection, technical foul, etc) for a college coach to not send a 'goon' on the court to hack a player. Yes there's a chance the rule could be exploited, but there's no doubt that teams could exploit the previous rule so nothing is really lost from the change.

I do believe this rule is a bit of an overkill and like yourself don't like that the rule gives the opposing coach the choice of shooter. My take on the Tiller situation is that if he was too injured to shoot free throws then he should never been substituted back into the game immediately following the free throws. The fact is that after the Marquette game, Tiller was a 50% free throw shooter which means he was nowhere near as effective. So by the numbers, Missouri certainly gained an advantage placing a better free throw shooter at the line. It also shows that Tiller did truly tweak his injury, but you have to wonder could he have shot the free throws since he was able to continue playing after the foul shots were taken. Mike Anderson would have probably been able to avoid this situation had he simply kept Tiller out of the game for a few minutes. That's my only gripe with Anderson in this instance.

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

As mentioned before, this rule allows the possibility for an opposing coach to foul a player who he knows is already injured and then select a bad free throw shooter to shoot game changing free throws. It also allows the opportunity for a coach to put in a 'goon' to hack a player on the arms hard enough to cause a potential injury, forcing a new player to shoot. It was hoped that the NCAA wouldn't adopt this form of the rule, but they unfortunately have done just that. It'll only take one stupid act this year to force this rule to be changed back. I just hope that player doesn't end up with a permanent injury that affects their career.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by the_meanstrosity

What's an injured player doing on the court in the first place? If the player is too injured to shoot free throws then they should be on the bench rather than on the court.

And as other posters have stated, there's plenty of reason (ejection, technical foul, etc) for a college coach to not send a 'goon' on the court to hack a player. Yes there's a chance the rule could be exploited, but there's no doubt that teams could exploit the previous rule so nothing is really lost from the change.

I do believe this rule is a bit of an overkill and like yourself don't like that the rule gives the opposing coach the choice of shooter. My take on the Tiller situation is that if he was too injured to shoot free throws then he should never been substituted back into the game immediately following the free throws. The fact is that after the Marquette game, Tiller was a 50% free throw shooter which means he was nowhere near as effective. So by the numbers, Missouri certainly gained an advantage placing a better free throw shooter at the line. It also shows that Tiller did truly tweak his injury, but you have to wonder could he have shot the free throws since he was able to continue playing after the foul shots were taken. Mike Anderson would have probably been able to avoid this situation had he simply kept Tiller out of the game for a few minutes. That's my only gripe with Anderson in this instance.

Tiller had an injury on that hand, but it wasn't bothering him until he was hacked on the shot. When Marquette fouled him, it turned a sprain into two completely torn ligaments, which he played with for the rest of the tourney. I'm surprised he even shot 50% after that. The previous rule made perfect sense in that instance. Had Tiller not been hurt on the play, he would have knocked those shots down. Since ligaments were torn on that play, the coach who's player was injured SHOULD have the right to put in a new player.

He was put back in for defensive purposes. He wasn't going to shoot the rest of that game under any circumstances. You don't need to be able to shoot to play defense. I'm surprised a basketball fan doesn't know that.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by panerd

Not once I have ever heard the hold accusation. This one is new to me.

You weren't in my living room as I was jumping up and down screaming.

Its not on the ball, so most people (including the moronannouncers) missed it.

The game was really decided on the block/charge call with ~ a minute left. It was a 50/50 call, and whoever got it was likely to win the game.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Texas fans rejoice. James has withdrawn from the NBA Draft. Texas has got to be a top 5 preseason team. Glad Mizzou gets them at home.

[MacroGuru]

A bit of bad news was released today...

BYU Head Coach Dave Rose was diagnoses with Pancreatic Cancer....There is no deadline on his return and he may potentially miss this upcoming season...

My Prayers are with him and his family.

[the_meanstrosity]

I know that Tiller had a previous injury and that it worsened with the foul. The fact is that Tiller was healthy enough to play just seconds after the free throws were shot. If Tiller is healthy enough to be an active defender then he's healthy enough to shoot free throws. He wasn't going to be as accurate as he normally is, but he was certainly healthy enough to shoot the ball, play defense, etc or else Anderson would have never put him immediately back into the game. Anderson used the old system perfectly and won a close game with it. I guarantee most any other coach would do the same thing if their in a tight game.

As a Missouri fan, I would expect you to know how active Missouri's guards hands are in playing defense. If a hand injury can keep Tiller from shooting free throws then it would certainly keep him from playing the active Tiger defense that Anderson loves. And let's not forget that Tiller played against both Memphis and UConn following the injury even leading the Tigers with 23 points against Memphis. The injury certainly affected his free throw shooting (he shot 50% from the FT line for the rest of the tourney) and thus why Mike Anderson was smart enough to pull Tiller for English at the free throw line.

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Tiller had an injury on that hand, but it wasn't bothering him until he was hacked on the shot. When Marquette fouled him, it turned a sprain into two completely torn ligaments, which he played with for the rest of the tourney. I'm surprised he even shot 50% after that. The previous rule made perfect sense in that instance. Had Tiller not been hurt on the play, he would have knocked those shots down. Since ligaments were torn on that play, the coach who's player was injured SHOULD have the right to put in a new player.

He was put back in for defensive purposes. He wasn't going to shoot the rest of that game under any circumstances. You don't need to be able to shoot to play defense. I'm surprised a basketball fan doesn't know that.

[the_meanstrosity]

The Big 12 should have some very good teams next season with Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Kansas State, and Oklahoma State all doing well on the recruiting trail.

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Texas fans rejoice. James has withdrawn from the NBA Draft. Texas has got to be a top 5 preseason team. Glad Mizzou gets them at home.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by the_meanstrosity

The Big 12 should have some very good teams next season with Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Kansas State, and Oklahoma State all doing well on the recruiting trail.

7 of the top 10 players in the conference return. That's a much better measure of conference strength. I'd put Mizzou in that mix instead of Kansas State as Frank Martin has has some issues figuring out how to get his team focused and playing on the same page. Regardless, the Big 12 will be very strong this upcoming year.

[the_meanstrosity]

Missouri loses a lot of interior scoring and rebounding with the losses of Lyons and Carrol hence why I think they'll struggle in 2009-2010. Anderson did a great job this season with a veteran squad, but you can't forget that Missouri under Anderson has struggled in the conference prior to last season. Anderson needs to start winning some recruiting battles and bringing top 100 talent into that program to keep up with the rest of the Big 12. KSU on the other hand was a 9-7 team last season and they return their top scorers (Clemente and Pullen) and add some much needed skills inside with freshman Wally Judge. Frank Martin is a young coach, but he has his players play some of the most physical defense in the Big 12. They struggle on offense at times, but their defense keeps them competitive and adding Wally Judge inside should help a lot.

Big 12 is doing a great job in recruiting some of the top talent in the nation with guys like Keith Gallon, Avery Bradley, Jordan Hamilton, Xavier Henry, Wally Judge, etc. I would consider last year's Big 12 a bit of a down year for the conference because of how young most teams were with so many NBA defections, but this year could be pretty strong with so many players returning plus so many highly regarded recruits.

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

7 of the top 10 players in the conference return. That's a much better measure of conference strength. I'd put Mizzou in that mix instead of Kansas State as Frank Martin has has some issues figuring out how to get his team focused and playing on the same page. Regardless, the Big 12 will be very strong this upcoming year.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by the_meanstrosity

Missouri loses a lot of interior scoring and rebounding with the losses of Lyons and Carrol hence why I think they'll struggle in 2009-2010. Anderson did a great job this season with a veteran squad, but you can't forget that Missouri under Anderson has struggled in the conference prior to last season. Anderson needs to start winning some recruiting battles and bringing top 100 talent into that program to keep up with the rest of the Big 12.

I realize you're not aware of Mizzou's personnel, but Mizzou went 10-11 deep last year and has two good post players ready to step in. They may not be scorers like DeMarre and Leo, but they are better rebounders and defenders than those two guys, which works extremely well in the system. Outside of KU and maybe UT, there isn't any real dominant inside players in the league. Mizzou has plenty of scoring on the outside and in their transition game.

Recruiting is going very well for Mizzou. Mizzou brought in two very good players in this year's class who should contribute immediately. 2010 will be the big year for Mizzou recruiting with the Elite Eight bump already paying big dividends in that class. I'd be floored if we didn't get at least 2 top-100 players given the current interest list. Anderson is doing extremely well in Memphis now that Calipari is out of that area.

Previous years were tainted heavily by the total lack of talent left by the previous coaching staff. It had little to do with Anderson or his coaching abilities.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

dola

Interview of Mike Anderson over the injured free throw shooter rule change. I really like his idea of giving the team the option to take the ball out rather than shoot the free throws if the player is injured.

MU's Anderson doesn't like rule change
BY VAHE GREGORIAN
OF THE POST-DISPATCH
06/17/2009

An NCAA men's basketball rule change apparently precipitated by Mizzou's invocation of the old standard in the NCAA Tournament has not been well-received by MU coach Mike Anderson.

"I'll be pretty blunt: I think it's a bad rule," Anderson said Tuesday during the Big 12 men's basketball summer teleconference.

The rule change announced last week calls for the coach of the offending team to choose among four players remaining on the floor in the event of a foul by his own team that injures an opposing player and prevents him from shooting free throws.

No longer does the coach of the team whose player is hurt have the option to call on any player from his own squad in such an instance, as Anderson did in summoning Kim English from the bench when J.T. Tiller aggravated a wrist injury against Marquette in the second round of the NCAA Tournament.

With 5.5 seconds left, English made both free throws to break a 79-79 tie in MU's 83-79 victory.

Anderson said other alternatives should have been considered, since the new rule enables the team that commits the foul to have the competitive advantage of putting the worst free-throw shooter on the floor at the line despite being the one to commit the transgression.

Among alternatives, he said, might have been allowing the team fouled to take the ball out instead of shooting free throws.

Instead, he said, more weight is being put on officials.

"Let's let the (players) decide the game," said Anderson, reiterating, "I think it's a bad rule, but that's me personally, though."

[cartman]

The "take the ball out" idea could be abused as well, unless they make some changes. For example, if a team was down by two, and was fouled, they potentially could inbound the ball and shoot a three.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

The "take the ball out" idea could be abused as well, unless they make some changes. For example, if a team was down by two, and was fouled, they potentially could inbound the ball and shoot a three.

But they still have to make the shot and the defending team is still able to defend the play. That seems to be much better than the rule implemented.

FWIW, we'll likely see fewer big men on the court late in the game to avoid an issue with this rule. It'll be interesting to take stock after the season and see what effect the rule ends up having on the games.

You've got to be excited about your Horns with James coming back. They've got a ton of talent on the floor now.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by the_meanstrosity

The Big 12 should have some very good teams next season with Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Kansas State, and Oklahoma State all doing well on the recruiting trail.

Agreed. According to Rivals - Texas (3), Kansas (6), Oklahoma (7), Oklahoma State (11), Baylor (17) and Kansas State (18) are all in the top 20 for recruiting classes. That's pretty impressive.

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I'd put Mizzou in that mix instead of Kansas State as Frank Martin has has some issues figuring out how to get his team focused and playing on the same page.

Mizzou had some big losses and a pretty marginal recruiting class. Their best recruit is a 3-star PG who's rated #136 in the nation (#22 PG). They have 2 other 3-star guys unranked and a somewhat unknown final guy who's only offers were Missouri and James Madison. Compare that to Kansas State, who has a strong group back and added 3 top 120 players - including #18 Wally Judge. Heck, you can make an argument that Baylor with Jefferson, Dennis and McLaughlin (all top 100) might pass Mizzou this season.

This conference is going to be stacked with talent.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Arles

Mizzou had some big losses and a pretty marginal recruiting class. Their best recruit is a 3-star PG who's rated #136 in the nation (#22 PG). They have 2 other 3-star guys unranked and a somewhat unknown final guy who's only offers were Missouri and James Madison. Compare that to Kansas State, who has a strong group back and added 3 top 120 players - including #18 Wally Judge. Heck, you can make an argument that Baylor with Jefferson, Dennis and McLaughlin (all top 100) might pass Mizzou this season.

This conference is going to be stacked with talent.

KSU and BU were supposed to do that LAST season. We all know how that turned out. As long as Martin and Drew are coaching those teams, they will continue to underachieve despite landing perceived good talent.

If Quin Snyder and Mike Anderson's stints have taught me anything, it's that the ability for sites like Rivals and Scout to accurately assess all talent in the nation is becoming increasingly difficult. People who work at those sites will openly admit that if you ask them. They rely more and more on second and third-hand reports because staffing is cut to keep expenses in check. Quin Snyder brought in highly-ranked talent according to the recruiting sites and couldn't do squat with it. Concensus amongst Mizzou fans is that Quin, along with Drew at Baylor, put far too much emphasis on rankings and just aren't that good at evaluating talent. It's fine to use it as a benchmark, but you can't rely on it.

[Arles]

I agree that the recruit rankings are a little "black magic", but it is all people have to go on at this point for the 08-09 class. I like Anderson a lot and think he will get the most out of the Mizzou team, I just think they need to get more talent in to seriously compete for a title in the Big 12 over the next few seasons.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Arles

I agree that the recruit rankings are a little "black magic", but it is all people have to go on at this point for the 08-09 class. I like Anderson a lot and think he will get the most out of the Mizzou team, I just think they need to get more talent in to seriously compete for a title in the Big 12 over the next few seasons.

I'd agree. UT and KU are the clear front-runners this coming year. All the other teams are just playing for one of the 4-5 NCAA tourney spots and a possible 1st round bye in the conference tourney.

[MrBug708]

Im one of the few who think that scouts do a lot better then coaches do when it comes to talent evaluation.

[the_meanstrosity]

I have family members and friends who are Missouri fans so I catch a number of their games and know the roster pretty well. Missouri does go 10-11 deep, but they are still going to need a big who can score in the paint and right now they don't have anyone on their roster who has shown they can do that. As for outside scoring, there's potential there with guys like Tiller and English, but they still need to show they can do it over the course of the season instead of having one game where they score 20 followed by another where they score 5.

OU is adding one of the best big men in the country in Keith Gallon while KSU is adding one of the better power forwards in Judge. I think the Big 12 will have some pretty good big men in this conference next season and hopefully for the near future.

Missouri's recruiting is doing very well based on what? I'm certainly never going to say recruiting rankings are the end all be all, but they can normally give you a decent picture of what to expect. You'll have the occasional surprise boom or bust, but over the long haul the best teams are normally the teams that land the best recruits. Last year, Missouri took advantage of a very young conference with so many guys leaving for the NBA the year before. The Tigers were one of the most experienced teams in the conference and played well above what they showed the previous two seasons. But again, let's not forget that Mike Anderson in his first two years in the Big 12 finished 7-9 and 6-10. I need to see more than one good season before I start believing that Anderson's "system" can overcome quality talent at other Big 12 schools.

How is Anderson doing extremely well in Memphis since Calipari left? He hasn't landed anyone from there since Calipari left correct? As far as I know, Anderson has 0 commits for 2010 or 2011. Calipari will now just recruit those guys to Kentucky. Then you've still got to beat guys like Bruce Pearl or Kevin Stallings. I'm looking at Missouri's current recruiting list and

I saw Bob Huggins and Frank Martin take a completely putrid KSU program and turn it into a potential NCAA tourney team within a year. You're so quick to dog on Martin yet he had a better first two years at KSU then Anderson at Missouri. Then you've got Jeff Capel who took an extremely gutted program at OU and turn it into a winner by his second season. I understand that Quin Snyder was awful. But giving Mike Anderson a free pass for two years isn't realistic given the success of other new coaches recently hired into the Big 12. Anderson's a good coach, but he still has to prove himself in the Big 12 given that thus far he's had only one successful season. Heck, Quin Snyder had a successful season at Missouri, but I don't think you'll find anybody who said he was a good coach in the Big 12.

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I realize you're not aware of Mizzou's personnel, but Mizzou went 10-11 deep last year and has two good post players ready to step in. They may not be scorers like DeMarre and Leo, but they are better rebounders and defenders than those two guys, which works extremely well in the system. Outside of KU and maybe UT, there isn't any real dominant inside players in the league. Mizzou has plenty of scoring on the outside and in their transition game.

Recruiting is going very well for Mizzou. Mizzou brought in two very good players in this year's class who should contribute immediately. 2010 will be the big year for Mizzou recruiting with the Elite Eight bump already paying big dividends in that class. I'd be floored if we didn't get at least 2 top-100 players given the current interest list. Anderson is doing extremely well in Memphis now that Calipari is out of that area.

Previous years were tainted heavily by the total lack of talent left by the previous coaching staff. It had little to do with Anderson or his coaching abilities.

[the_meanstrosity]

KSU was not expected to beat anybody last season with the losses of Bill Walker and Michael Beasley. KSU was actually rated eighth in the conference last season while MU was seventh. The fact KSU finished 9-7 without their two NBA draft picks from the season before should impress anyone. You may not like Frank Martin, but he has gotten his guys to play tough hard nosed basketball these last two years. I would expect KSU to again be in the top half of the Big 12 this year based on talent and coaching.

Quin Snyder could land quality talent. Quin's problem was that he couldn't coach that talent. Letting guys chuck threes all game long with zero semblance of a real offense will destroy any team. You can dismiss Snyder's coaching talent, but the guy could recruit. He recruited Leo Lyons, Ricky Paulding, Kareem Rush, Arhtur Johnson, and Linas Kleiza. Some of those guys are still making money in the NBA.

Drew's problem at Baylor was that like Quin, he lost control of his team last season. They had all the talent in the world, but they didn't play together at all until their backs were to the wall. Drew is a great recruiter, but he needs a good bench coach to help him with the x's and o's similar to what Missouri tried to do with Quin later in his career. In all fairness, I've heard good things about Quin Snyder coaching in the NBDL. I do think he's going to eventually be a good coach in college or the NBA, but he just wasn't ready for a head coaching gig when Missouri hired him.

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

KSU and BU were supposed to do that LAST season. We all know how that turned out. As long as Martin and Drew are coaching those teams, they will continue to underachieve despite landing perceived good talent.

If Quin Snyder and Mike Anderson's stints have taught me anything, it's that the ability for sites like Rivals and Scout to accurately assess all talent in the nation is becoming increasingly difficult. People who work at those sites will openly admit that if you ask them. They rely more and more on second and third-hand reports because staffing is cut to keep expenses in check. Quin Snyder brought in highly-ranked talent according to the recruiting sites and couldn't do squat with it. Concensus amongst Mizzou fans is that Quin, along with Drew at Baylor, put far too much emphasis on rankings and just aren't that good at evaluating talent. It's fine to use it as a benchmark, but you can't rely on it.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Duke guard Elliot Williams is transferring home due to mother's illness. Leaves Duke really shorthanded at guard (only 2 returning guards). Looks like Memphis will probably be the destination. Missouri (HS teammate on team) and Vandy are outside possibilities.

Elliot Williams of Duke Blue Devils transferring for family reasons - ESPN

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Oklahoma State loses a big recruit. Karron Johnson (#57 in the nation) has failed to qualify and will attending Moberly (Mo.) Junior College.

[Arles]

Man, this offseason has been crazy. Arizona just added two more USC decommits in 4-star PG Lamont Jones and 3-star PF Derrick Williams. That puts Arizona's 2009 haul since Miller was hired as 4-stars SF Solomon Hill, C Kyryl Natyazhko and Jones; with 3-star SF Kevin Parrom and Williams to round it out.

With these two new additions, Rivals.com posted that Arizona's class would be in the top 12 if they re-ranked. Given they had one no star JC kid in April (who they released when Miller joined), this is pretty amazing.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Hmmmmmm. I'm trying to figure out whether I want this to be true or not. The Lance Stephenson talking with Mizzou rumors are evidently true at some level, though no one is certain how much interest Mizzou's staff has in him. I've heard some nightmare stories from the AAU circuit about this guy's recruitment and eligibility. That doesn't even include the fact that he's a pretty self-centered player. But he's one of the top 5 players in the class of 2009. I'm glad someone other than me is making these decisions.

[Arles]

Rivals said it's between Florida International and Memphis. I know Arizona, St Johns and some others took themselves out of the running last month. IF Mizzou is interested, they would have a strong shot at landing him - but he doesn't seem like an Anderson-type of guy. I doubt they pursue him.

As an FYI, it came out last week that Arizona had zero interest in Stevenson throughout the entire process and the Stevenson camp was floating rumors to generate more interest. That may be what's going on with Mizzou now.

[DeToxRox]

Tim Hardaway Jr, a 3* Guard, and obviously the son of Tim Hardaway of NBA fame, has committed to Michigan today. He for sure fits Beilein's type of player.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Potential recruiting change-of-heart on the airwaves in KC this morning. Carl Henry was interviewed by the morning show on a local KC radio station. He said that Xavier and CJ Henry are not yet sure they want to attend Kansas. They are reportedly going to put their heads together (code for crunching the $$$) and decide on whether they want to go to Kentucky or Kansas.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Potential recruiting change-of-heart on the airwaves in KC this morning. Carl Henry was interviewed by the morning show on a local KC radio station. He said that Xavier and CJ Henry are not yet sure they want to attend Kansas. They are reportedly going to put their heads together (code for crunching the $$$) and decide on whether they want to go to Kentucky or Kansas.

We were talking about Calipari just last week at work. You put a guy that dirty in a place with the huge wealth of resources and hungry admin willing to look the other way and they're going to test the death penalty limit (not that the NCAA would ever have the stones to do that to a major program).

Looks like we've seen the first glimpse of that.

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

We were talking about Calipari just last week at work. You put a guy that dirty in a place with the huge wealth of resources and hungry admin willing to look the other way and they're going to test the death penalty limit (not that the NCAA would ever have the stones to do that to a major program).

Looks like we've seen the first glimpse of that.

SI

No question about it. It's pretty obvious what's happened here.

[Logan]

Lance Stephensen to Cincinnati.