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View Poll Results: Who will (not should) be the Democratic presidential nominee in 2008? | |||
Joe Biden | 0 | 0% | |
Hillary Clinton | 62 | 35.84% | |
Christopher Dodd | 0 | 0% | |
John Edwards | 10 | 5.78% | |
Mike Gravel | 1 | 0.58% | |
Dennis Kucinich | 2 | 1.16% | |
Barack Obama | 97 | 56.07% | |
Bill Richardson | 1 | 0.58% | |
Voters: 173. You may not vote on this poll |
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04-01-2008, 01:19 PM | #1951 | |
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NPR did a story on black liberation theology.
Quote:
Last edited by Young Drachma : 04-01-2008 at 01:20 PM. |
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04-01-2008, 01:28 PM | #1952 |
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I don't think it's that white people "don't know" are "are surprised by" about the idea of this -- I thought the issue is that Obama shouldn't be supporting it. Also, detailing the differences between "black worship" and "white worship" is the most divisive thing I've heard in a while. Before you know it, someone will come in and say they're not talking about the same God.
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04-01-2008, 01:49 PM | #1953 | ||
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Quote:
It might be divisive, but..it's still pretty true even today. From MLK in 1963: Quote:
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04-01-2008, 01:56 PM | #1954 |
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It just comes off to me as saying: "You don't understand. That's just how black people are."
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04-01-2008, 01:57 PM | #1955 |
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And while MLK's speech calls it a tragedy, here it's being used as an excuse.
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04-01-2008, 02:02 PM | #1956 |
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Heh, it's funny. In church last Sunday, one of the praise band singers (this is in the "contemporary" worship) was remarking on the up-tempo songs for the week and said something to the effect of "we're still somewhere between the conservative churches and the African-American churches...but we're getting there!" This is to a primarily (oh, say 98%) white audience, where maybe a smattering of the crowd is comfortable clapping to a song, and even fewer will raise a hand up. I think that "getting there" is going to take a long time.
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04-01-2008, 03:20 PM | #1957 | |
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From Alice Walker:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...selections2008 Quote:
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04-01-2008, 03:41 PM | #1958 | ||
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Quote:
But it was NPR. So the person they interviewed was probably some liberal apologist. To quote James Baldwin: Quote:
The stuff some of those folks do is almost more indefensible than the folks on the right that they revile with such disdain as "not understanding" the so-called plight of colored folks. Because if those folks were so progressive minded, they'd be living in communities and practicing what they preach. But in reality, they're just visiting and making themselves feel good and then going back to their suburban tracts and privately wondering the same stuff the folks in "less enlightened" areas, just they'd never say it out loud except with their well-meaning friends. |
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04-01-2008, 04:06 PM | #1959 | |
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Saw this at Instapundit. It's an op/ed from GayWired.com.
hxxp://www.gaywired.com/print_this_article.cfm?ArticlePage=3&Section=67&id=18614 Quote:
Identity politics is such a wonderful thing.
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04-01-2008, 04:09 PM | #1960 |
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Hillary Clinton has challenged Obama to a bowling match to decide the primaries, even spotting him 2 frames. If they actually went through with this I would vote for the winner in the GE.
But sadly she had to issue the challenge April 1st. |
04-01-2008, 04:09 PM | #1961 |
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Who cares about Iraq and the economy, let's focus on analyzing every speech given by a person Obama said hi to in the last 20 years. Yay!
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04-01-2008, 04:31 PM | #1962 | ||
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You may think it's foolish to spend so much time and energy looking at the people that Barack Obama is close to, but you don't help your case when you create a strawman argument. Quote:
Hardly someone that Obama's just said "hi" to. Plus, are you saying that members of the GLBT community shouldn't be concerned about someone like Meeks having a place in an Obama presidency? This isn't some "retired reverend" we're talking about. This is an Illinois State Senator who's closely involved in Obama's campaign.
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04-01-2008, 04:55 PM | #1963 |
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yawn
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04-01-2008, 05:42 PM | #1964 | |
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Quote:
Right. So he's a bigot...but for the left. (name the movie!) |
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04-01-2008, 05:46 PM | #1965 |
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Like I said, McCain, Clinton, Obama all have people they are in some way associated with that would be considered "evil" by one faction. Point is, if this is all they have to bring to the game, they lose. The American people have shown over the past few weeks that they don't really care about this. People who supported him still do, people that supported McCain and Hillary don't like Obama regardless. Polls show that most Americans are concerned with Iraq and the economy. I'd even be willing to bet more care about global warming. So instead of trying to constantly dig up something negative that somebody said along the way (old politics) maybe it's time to actually pay attention to the voting public.
But then, you'd have nothing to hem and haw over while your candidate figures out who to attack.
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04-01-2008, 06:24 PM | #1966 |
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Rasmussen tracking poll has Obama with 5 in Pennsylvania. But the Real Clear Politics average is still at about 14%
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04-01-2008, 09:56 PM | #1967 |
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Does anyone really, honestly, think Barack Obama is anti-white or anti-gay? Really?
On the other hand, John McCain had a very real relationship with Charles Keating, very likely being the beneficiary of illegal activities by this same man. A man whose business was bailed out by the U.S. Government to the tune of several BILLION dollars in the S&L scandal. Given that, less than 20 years later, we're bailing out the financial industry once again, wouldn't this be relevant information? Shouldn't we be discussing this? |
04-01-2008, 10:03 PM | #1968 | |
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Quote:
Dude, your partisan hackery is really showing. It really must bother you that this story has legs as oppose to the millions of crappy things the federal govt has done the past 40 years. |
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04-01-2008, 10:03 PM | #1969 | |
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This is like, in the NFL, asking how one of the wild card teams matches up with a team that got a bye. Of course those questions will come up; but first you've got to beat the opponent in front of you. |
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04-01-2008, 11:16 PM | #1970 | |
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Quote:
"Is John McCain a crook?" - Feb, 2000 http://www.slate.com/id/1004633/ and one from last week from the AP: "Lessons from Keating scandal applied to McCain presidential campaign" - March, 2008 http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/...in-Keating.php But the NY Times alone has run between 7 and 12 stories on it over the past 10 years. Here's a beauty back in Feb of 2008 that was later corrected for numerous smears: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/21/us...=1&oref=slogin Column by Dowd in Jan 1999 http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...52C0A96F958260 Another story in Nov 1999: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...52C1A96F958260 October 7, 1993: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...53C1A965958260 There's numerous more if you Google McCain and Keating. |
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04-02-2008, 06:59 AM | #1971 |
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Yeah, I seriously doubt the Keating 5 thing will have much legs, especially since to McCain it was his "wake up call" and when he decided to take on the special interests in Washington. It's almost a strength for him, ie, the thing that got him "born again" (so to speak).
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04-02-2008, 08:10 AM | #1972 |
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I to a certain degree can understand where Obama is coming from, inexperience is a killer. Hopeful he can get pass this and make his way toward the white house.
"Yes We Can"
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04-02-2008, 08:33 AM | #1973 |
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I was hoping for Morgan Freeman in Deep Impact.
Barrack will do. If you smell what Barrack is cooking.
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04-02-2008, 04:19 PM | #1974 |
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
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M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." Last edited by Ksyrup : 04-02-2008 at 04:20 PM. |
04-02-2008, 06:43 PM | #1975 |
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LOL, that's awesome.
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04-02-2008, 08:43 PM | #1976 |
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She's no Sara Silverman.
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04-03-2008, 12:48 PM | #1977 |
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Obama raised 40 million in March with an incredible 218000 first time donors. Hillary's campaign says they won't release totals until they are legally required to do so on April 20. She's expected to be below 20 million.
McCain is expected to come in around 13 million.
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04-03-2008, 12:49 PM | #1978 |
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dola
Obama has raised over 130 million just in 2008.
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04-03-2008, 01:05 PM | #1979 |
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
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You know what bothers me about Obama, though? It's that his entire campaign is centered on how it's time for "change" and he's not "politics as usual"...and then you see something like this. It's not that he's doing something others aren't doing; they all do it. The problem is that he's built his entire campaign on not being "politics as usual." But isn't the misleading advertising, the splitting hairs, the claiming to not do something that no one is allowed to do and playing word games to suggest he's acting in a way the other candidates are not... isn't that the very definition of "politics as usual"?
hxxp://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/obamas_oil_spill.html Obama's Oil Spill March 31, 2008 Obama says he doesn't take money from oil companies. We say that's a little too slick. Summary In a new ad, Obama says, "I don’t take money from oil companies." Technically, that's true, since a law that has been on the books for more than a century prohibits corporations from giving money directly to any federal candidate. But that doesn’t distinguish Obama from his rivals in the race. We find the statement misleading:
Sen. Barack Obama's ad began running late last week in Pennsylvania and Indiana. In it, Obama talks about the United States' reliance on foreign oil and the need for energy independence and alternative fuels. Only Legal Contributions, Please
Obama's right on both counts when he says that "Exxon’s making $40 billion a year, and we’re paying $3.50 for gas." ExxonMobil's profits in 2007 hit $40.6 billion, the highest ever recorded by any company. Obama: Since the gas lines of the ’70s, Democrats and Republicans have talked about energy independence, but nothing’s changed — except now Exxon’s making $40 billion a year, and we’re paying $3.50 for gas. I’m Barack Obama. I don’t take money from oil companies or Washington lobbyists, and I won’t let them block change anymore. They’ll pay a penalty on windfall profits. We’ll invest in alternative energy, create jobs and free ourselves from foreign oil. I approve this message because it’s time that Washington worked for you. Not them. The national average price for a gallon of gas in the week ending March 24, the most recent data available, was $3.26, but prices are higher than the average in some areas. Our problem comes with this statement: Obama: I don’t take money from oil companies or Washington lobbyists, and I won’t let them block change anymore.It's true that Obama doesn't take money directly from oil companies, but then, no presidential, House or Senate candidate does. They can't: Corporations have been prohibited from contributing directly to federal candidates since the Tillman Act became law in 1907. Obama has, however, accepted more than $213,000 in contributions from individuals who work for, or whose spouses work for, companies in the oil and gas industry, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. That's not as much as Sen. Hillary Clinton, who has received more than $306,000 in donations from people tied to the industry, but it's still a substantial amount. Here's a chart we made, using the OpenSecrets.org database, of contributions to Obama from individuals employed by some of the largest oil companies in the U.S. Our numbers are conservative because the database doesn't include donations of less than $200 (federal law doesn't require the reporting of donations below that amount), and we haven't included sums donated by the spouses or other immediate family members of the employees. Additionally, we haven't included donations from people who work at smaller firms in the industry. When the Clinton campaign criticized Obama's ad, calling it "false advertising," Obama's campaign quickly noted that he didn't take money from political action committees or lobbyists. We'd say the Obama campaign is trying to create a distinction without very much of a practical difference. Political action committee funds are pooled contributions from a company's or an organization's individual employees or members; corporate lobbyists often have a big say as to where a PAC's donations go. But a PAC can give no more than $5,000 per candidate, per election. We're not sure how a $5,000 contribution from, say, Chevron's PAC would have more influence on a candidate than, for example, the $9,500 Obama has received from Chevron employees giving money individually. In addition, two oil industry executives are bundling money for Obama – drumming up contributions from individuals and turning them over to the campaign. George Kaiser, the chairman of Oklahoma-based Kaiser-Francis Oil Co., ranks 68th on the Forbes list of world billionaires. He's listed on Obama's Web site as raising between $50,000 and $100,000 for the candidate. Robert Cavnar is president and CEO of Milagro Exploration LLC, an oil exploration and production company. He's named as a bundler in the same category as Kaiser. We're not making any judgments about whether Obama is influenced by campaign contributions. In fact, we'd note that he singles out ExxonMobil in this ad, even though he's received more than $30,850 from individuals who work for the company. But we do think that in theory, contributions that come in volume from oil industry executives, or are bundled by them, can be every bit as influential as PAC contributions, if not more so. Lobbyist Loopholes? We've noted before that Obama's policy of not taking money from lobbyists is a bit of hair-splitting. It's true that he doesn't accept contributions from individuals who are registered to lobby the federal government. But he does take money from their spouses and from other individuals at firms where lobbyists work. And some of his bigger fundraisers were registered lobbyists until they signed on with the Obama campaign. Even the campaign has acknowledged that this policy is flawed. "It isn’t a perfect solution to the problem and it isn’t even a perfect symbol," Obama spokesman Bill Burton has said. – by Viveca Novak, with Justin Bank
Sources Kornblut, Anne E., and Perry Bacon Jr. "Clinton Resists Calls to Drop Out." The Washington Post, 29 March 2008. Mouawad, Jad. "Exxon Sets Record Profit Last Year." The New York Times, 2 Feb. 2008. "Open Secrets" Database. Center for Responsive Politics, Accessed 31 March 2008. Hillary for President. “False Advertising: New Obama Ad Falsely Claims He Does Not Accept Money from Oil Companies.” 28 March 2008. Energy Information Administration, "Weekly Retail Gasoline and Diesel Prices," accessed 31 March 2008.
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04-03-2008, 02:20 PM | #1980 |
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So let me guess this straight...if a guy who is some employee (one of 100,000s) and donates money to a campaign, in this article's judgement that's the same as taking money from the oil company? I work with stats for a living and this data is funky. There are much better ways to figure this out.
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04-03-2008, 02:27 PM | #1981 |
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
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Well first, somewhere around 50% of that "oil money" has come from bundlers, so it's pretty obvious there's a concerted effort from top execs in the oil industry to collect money for Obama. Second, all of the candidates' contributions are compared the same way in this regard, Obama's not being singled out (other than in the context of his ad claim).
The big issue is Obama's claim that HE does not take money from oil companies (insinuating that others do). NO candidate can. And then he claims he doesn't take money from lobbyists...but he takes it from their spouses and others at their firms. That's the kind of two-faced political crap that he's supposed to be the alternative to, isn't it?
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M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." Last edited by Ksyrup : 04-03-2008 at 02:27 PM. |
04-03-2008, 02:37 PM | #1982 |
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I agree, I just like my stats and numbers a little more detailed in the breakdown. Personally, I think you would be a better president than anyone running.
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04-03-2008, 02:37 PM | #1983 | |
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Quote:
If you (or anyone else) is planning to vote for Obama because he is some sort of weird post-partisan Jesus figure, then I respectfully suggest that you reconsider your vote. Obama is a politician. He is nothing more and nothing less. |
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04-03-2008, 02:39 PM | #1984 |
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
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Try telling him that.
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M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." |
04-03-2008, 08:32 PM | #1985 |
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Wow. It was hard today to follow the regular news with all of the outrage against Randi Rhodes' vulgar, sexist, anit-semitic rant.
Or not. |
04-03-2008, 09:45 PM | #1986 | |
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I missed the anti-Semitic part. I've only heard about Hillary and Ferraro being "f***ing whores". What else did she say?
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04-03-2008, 10:07 PM | #1987 | |
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Guess I read that wrong. Sorry.
Quote:
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04-03-2008, 10:11 PM | #1988 |
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I always thought what the left-wing-punditocracy really needed was an Ann Coulter/Michelle Malkin type whacko. Way to go, Randi...
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04-03-2008, 10:23 PM | #1989 | |
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They already have Al Franken, Michael Moore and that dogs and cats chick. Oh yeah and Rosie. They don't need Rhodes. Last edited by Grammaticus : 04-03-2008 at 10:23 PM. |
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04-04-2008, 01:25 AM | #1990 |
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04-04-2008, 07:00 AM | #1991 |
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I don't get the "anti-Semite racist" comment. Nixon, ok, was anti-Semitic. And an argument can be made that Reagan's attack on "welfare queens" and some of his speeches appealed to racism somewhat. Cheney, perhaps there is something there somewhere.
But, how exactly were Reagan and Cheney "anti-Semitic"? You'd think anti-Semites wouldn't be all that fond of Israel for one.
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04-04-2008, 07:17 AM | #1992 |
This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off.
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Randi spent too much time in South Florida half-baked out of her mind while spinning Eagles records. Everybody's an anti-Semite.
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M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." |
04-04-2008, 07:27 AM | #1993 |
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So out of $130,000,000 raised, we're concerned about the roughly $300,000 from "oil company employees"? Really?
Look, Obama's a politician. For some (possibly many) he's an inspiring person as well. He has my support because, for a number of reasons I've detailed before, I think he could be a very good President, and certainly better than the two other current alternatives. But he's not JFK. Of course, JFK wasn't JFK either, if you really look at it. Sadly, it seems this race (and this thread) has simply devolved into a daily "Oh! Gotcha!" contest. Woo hoo. Last edited by flere-imsaho : 04-04-2008 at 07:28 AM. |
04-04-2008, 07:30 AM | #1994 | |
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It's like you've never followed politics before.
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04-04-2008, 07:35 AM | #1995 |
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04-04-2008, 07:40 AM | #1996 | |
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I was half-joking. However, every race turns into a "Oh, Gotcha!". It was only a matter of time.
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04-04-2008, 07:42 AM | #1997 |
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04-04-2008, 07:45 AM | #1998 |
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I enjoy how we (FOFC posters as a whole) always blame our grumpiness on Bucc's influence .
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04-04-2008, 07:50 AM | #1999 | |
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Nice spin. Gotcha! for misleading people. Great. Look, he brought this on himself. No one told him to make a big deal about not taking money from oil companies. That he would go out of his way to state as a "fact" something that, by law, NO candidate can do, smacks of "politics as usual." That's the issue. And then there's the lobbyist thing...again, making a point to tell people he doesn't take money from lobbyists - but hey, if their spouses want to give me money (wink, wink), then that's A-OK! I don't care that he's doing it, and I don't care how little money it is. I care that his campaign has positioned him as an outsider and all I hear from him is how we need a "new voice" and "change" and "I'm different from Washington people," and then he pulls this kind of shit. That's his campaign's overriding mantra, and he's demonstrating that he's not any different. I know he's a politician, but you can't tell me he's not campaigning as if he's not the usual candidate. And BTW, I have no agenda here. I'm likely not voting for any of the 3 remaining candidates. I'm just calling it like I see it.
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04-04-2008, 07:53 AM | #2000 | |
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Factcheck.org analyzes all candidate ads, statements, etc., regardless of party. Hard to see how an unaffiliated organization pointing out misleading statements or outright lies to aid citizens in determining what they can or should believe is "politics as usual."
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M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete." |
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