Console Discussion/E3/Tokyo Game Show Thread

[Izulde]

IzuldeJestor on PS4

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I'm intrigued by how quickly the 4K TV's have become relatively affordable. I'm not a huge fan of 3D TV from the perspective of things popping out of the screen, but I LOVE the Simulview option that they're offering now with some of the console games. Basically, it's 1080p for two gamers at once by using the 3D glasses. Really hoping they offer a game at E3 to show off this technology with a game.

Here's a 65" 4K TV for around $2800 w/ free shipping. That doesn't seem too bad to me.

65" Sony 4K Ultra HD 3D LED HDTVs: Sony XBR65X900A $3249 or Sony XBR65X850A $2799 + Free Shipping - BuyDig Deals, Coupons and Promos

[mckerney]

Xbox Live's Major Nelson » Delivering More Choices for Fans :

$399 XBox One without a Kinect on the way. Games for Gold is coming to XBox One and will work like Playstation Plus where you must still have XBox Live Gold to play games you get this way.

And in a long overdue move use of apps Netflix and Hulu will no longer require XBox Gold.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by mckerney

Xbox Live's Major Nelson » Delivering More Choices for Fans :

$399 XBox One without a Kinect on the way. Games for Gold is coming to XBox One and will work like Playstation Plus where you must still have XBox Live Gold to play games you get this way.

And in a long overdue move use of apps Netflix and Hulu will no longer require XBox Gold.

Good for them as they'll finally be competitive, but why the hell did this take a year to basically become a PS4? None of this seems like something that couldn't have been done immediately, including removing Kinect.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Good for them as they'll finally be competitive, but why the hell did this take a year to basically become a PS4? None of this seems like something that couldn't have been done immediately, including removing Kinect.

If it'd been that way on launch my sales $$ might well have gone to XBox this generation. Now they've missed out on me though - and I imagine others like me.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Rumor circulating that NPD numbers in April for X1 were really bad and that they bumped up this announcement a month (was originally an E3 announcement) to mitigate the damage when the April numbers do come out.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

dola

Looks like MS didn't give developers who were developing Kinect games any warning that this change was coming. Judging from the tweets by Harmonix and Rare developers, they found out this morning just like everyone else and are none too pleased.

[chadritt]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

dola

Looks like MS didn't give developers who were developing Kinect games any warning that this change was coming. Judging from the tweets by Harmonix and Rare developers, they found out this morning just like everyone else and are none too pleased.

Thats weird, I had a friend developing an XBone game "hint" to me almost a month ago about this. He knows I dont want an Xbox One because of games using the Kinect so he was trying to make me feel better about the fact I'll likely buy the system to buy his game.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by mckerney

Xbox Live's Major Nelson » Delivering More Choices for Fans :

$399 XBox One without a Kinect on the way. Games for Gold is coming to XBox One and will work like Playstation Plus where you must still have XBox Live Gold to play games you get this way.

And in a long overdue move use of apps Netflix and Hulu will no longer require XBox Gold.

Jesus Christ, Microsoft. You're, like, years late to the party on "let's not charge people for things they pay for already."

I'm on record as not really being a fan of Kinect having been integrated into Xbox One in the first place, but for fuck's sake, if you design your entire architecture around that and then six months after release go "...y'know, fuck that," you compromise the experience for your early adopters and effectively kill the peripheral going forward. There's a fucking reason why peripherals which aren't bundled with the system end up not having much of an impact. It's why I thought Microsoft was crazy to have a hard drive in every Xbox and then split the market with Xbox 360 by having two different SKUs. This is, arguably, worse: it happened after the system launched instead of being part of the strategy from the beginning. Why not just cut the price, suck up the losses while you try to find some efficiencies in construction, and count on software sales to restore some of that margin in the meantime?

The Games With Gold news I'm reserving judgment on. Not thrilled by the sound of "you have to be Gold to play the games you get this way," but I'll be honest - I'm surprised there were no such strings attached to the program on Xbox 360.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by chadritt

Thats weird, I had a friend developing an XBone game "hint" to me almost a month ago about this. He knows I dont want an Xbox One because of games using the Kinect so he was trying to make me feel better about the fact I'll likely buy the system to buy his game.

Could be. I know the Harmonix people mentioned they were looking for a bright spot. Perhaps they knew and just weren't pleased because it obviously alters their situation. May be too that they weren't expecting it until E3 and were surprised that they bumped it up as has been rumored.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Jesus Christ, Microsoft. You're, like, years late to the party on "let's not charge people for things they pay for already."

I'm on record as not really being a fan of Kinect having been integrated into Xbox One in the first place, but for fuck's sake, if you design your entire architecture around that and then six months after release go "...y'know, fuck that," you compromise the experience for your early adopters and effectively kill the peripheral going forward. There's a fucking reason why peripherals which aren't bundled with the system end up not having much of an impact. It's why I thought Microsoft was crazy to have a hard drive in every Xbox and then split the market with Xbox 360 by having two different SKUs. This is, arguably, worse: it happened after the system launched instead of being part of the strategy from the beginning. Why not just cut the price, suck up the losses while you try to find some efficiencies in construction, and count on software sales to restore some of that margin in the meantime?

I agree here. I think they've damaged the long-term viability of the Xbox One with this move. They needed to figure out a way to get to $399 without compromising the system.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

I agree here. I think they've damaged the long-term viability of the Xbox One with this move. They needed to figure out a way to get to $399 without compromising the system.

The ultimate irony here would be if Sony's counter punch was to package in their PS Eye for the PS4 at the same price. Probably won't happen because it's currently in very short supply due to good sales, but don't be shocked if it happens relatively soon only because the VR headset requires the PS Eye camera.

IMO, I don't think it would be the right move for Sony, but it would be mildly amusing given what MS has done here.

[SackAttack]

Joined the next generation with some gift money I got for my college graduation today.

Picked up a PS4 despite the Microsoft ref spending 30 minutes trying to talk me out of it. I almost felt bad when he walked away with slumped shoulders afterward. Almost.

The fun part was when he gave up the fight after he saw what game I was getting with it (MLB 14). It was like "Aw, fuck, I'm not going to win this. Have a good day."

Also, there were 3 or 4 PS Eyes in stock.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Joined the next generation with some gift money I got for my college graduation today.

Picked up a PS4 despite the Microsoft ref spending 30 minutes trying to talk me out of it. I almost felt bad when he walked away with slumped shoulders afterward. Almost.

The fun part was when he gave up the fight after he saw what game I was getting with it (MLB 14). It was like "Aw, fuck, I'm not going to win this. Have a good day."

Also, there were 3 or 4 PS Eyes in stock.

It feels like we're approaching another 'Titanfall' moment with MS. November launch wasn't great. We heard, "OK, but here comes Titanfall!". Titanfall release was mixed and certainly not what MS had hoped. Now we hear, "OK, but here comes a price drop and just what the consumers want!". It appears we're running out of bullets here.

I don't think we'll see any counter offers on the PS4 judging from the Tweets from PS France. Sony seems to be OK selling the message that they don't have to make any changes right now because they hit the sweet spot from day one. I do think they're going to pull the trigger on something for the holiday season.

[SackAttack]

Meh. I don't even look at it like that. The "main" exclusives on each console have a very different audience. Xbox One has Forza and Titanfall. PlayStation 4 has MLB 14. Very different audiences for all three of those games. Neither console has much in the way of exciting games due before Q4. E3 will mainly be about what we can expect next year.

If the price cut gooses Xbox One sales, it'll also goose Titanfall sales. The funny bit about the slumped shoulders was the realization that "well, shit. he's willing to drop $460 to play a baseball game. Xbox One hasn't got anything to compete for THAT customer."

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Meh. I don't even look at it like that. The "main" exclusives on each console have a very different audience. Xbox One has Forza and Titanfall. PlayStation 4 has MLB 14. Very different audiences for all three of those games. Neither console has much in the way of exciting games due before Q4. E3 will mainly be about what we can expect next year.

If the price cut gooses Xbox One sales, it'll also goose Titanfall sales. The funny bit about the slumped shoulders was the realization that "well, shit. he's willing to drop $460 to play a baseball game. Xbox One hasn't got anything to compete for THAT customer."

You mention Titanfall. I think it brings up another interesting part of the discussion. What does MS do with all the boxes that now amount to Kinect bundles along with the limited edition Titanfall bundles? Best guess is that they discount both of them to $450 to move them out at what's a fair price so they can focus on the SKU where they at least have a shot. Last check was that there are 600-800K of the Kinect bundle on the market. No word on Titanfall numbers in the supply chain, but I can't think there's anywhere near that many. I'd argue that the Titanfall bundle is a better value at $499 than the bare bones at $399.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

You mention Titanfall. I think it brings up another interesting part of the discussion. What does MS do with all the boxes that now amount to Kinect bundles along with the limited edition Titanfall bundles? Best guess is that they discount both of them to $450 to move them out at what's a fair price so they can focus on the SKU where they at least have a shot. Last check was that there are 600-800K of the Kinect bundle on the market. No word on Titanfall numbers in the supply chain, but I can't think there's anywhere near that many. I'd argue that the Titanfall bundle is a better value at $499 than the bare bones at $399.

The Titanfall bundle is absolutely a better value than the barebones, but I don't think they're going to cut the price on the Kinect bundles, though. I think they're going to run the split-SKU and figure "it worked for us last gen, having a split-SKU setup here will help us compete with PS4 on price in the short term and maybe we can relaunch a one-SKU offering with Kinect once the overall price comes down."

They may manufacture fewer of the Kinect bundles until sales of those units pick up, but I don't expect them to clear them out or stop selling them.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

You mention Titanfall. I think it brings up another interesting part of the discussion. What does MS do with all the boxes that now amount to Kinect bundles along with the limited edition Titanfall bundles? Best guess is that they discount both of them to $450 to move them out at what's a fair price so they can focus on the SKU where they at least have a shot. Last check was that there are 600-800K of the Kinect bundle on the market. No word on Titanfall numbers in the supply chain, but I can't think there's anywhere near that many. I'd argue that the Titanfall bundle is a better value at $499 than the bare bones at $399.

Your tone keeps indicating that MS is in some sort of desperate, dire straits that's going to cause them to jump off the edge of a cliff.


We really won't have any idea how bad things are for MS in terms of market share until next year.

Either way, XBox One owners are getting a good experience and Sony users are getting a good experience.

Don't worry about MS MBB. Trust me, they'll be in Sony's way in the console industry for a long, long time. They aren't going anywhere and they are making plenty of cash. I know the reason you talk about this so much is your fear for Microsoft employees families who will be laid off because of the great PS4 slaughter, but you can send some of your concerns to Nigeria or parts of the world who need it more. MS will be just fine.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Your tone keeps indicating that MS is in some sort of desperate, dire straits that's going to cause them to jump off the edge of a cliff.

We really won't have any idea how bad things are for MS in terms of market share until next year.

Either way, XBox One owners are getting a good experience and Sony users are getting a good experience.

Don't worry about MS MBB. Trust me, they'll be in Sony's way in the console industry for a long, long time. They aren't going anywhere and they are making plenty of cash. I know the reason you talk about this so much is your fear for Microsoft employees families who will be laid off because of the great PS4 slaughter, but you can send some of your concerns to Nigeria or parts of the world who need it more. MS will be just fine.

Quite the contrary. MS never goes away, unless it's related to supporting old products that people actually like (i.e. Windows XP).

If anything, MS generally has done the opposite of what you imply, even to a lesser degree in this generation. They tend to hold on to current products far too long rather than change relative to customer needs. Some might argue that MS is doing a good job responding to customer feedback on the X1. I'd argue that it was clear this change was needed last summer and they should have made this change a year ago. I'm not even sure it's a hindsight issue. It was clear to everyone except the group-think that apparently set in amongst the X1 development team.

Regardless, I'm not sure where you ever got the idea I though they were going away. They often don't react well to consumer trends, but they never go away.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Quite the contrary. MS never goes away, unless it's related to supporting old products that people actually like (i.e. Windows XP).

I'm no Microsoft fan but XP needed to go away. Not because it was bad, quite the contrary, but you can't support software forever and it was 13 years old.

According to this, in the year XP came out:
Computer History for the year 2001

Intel was producing the Pentium III, a standard hard drive was about 100 GB, Napster was on top of the world, Compaq and HP merged, and IE 6.0 came with XP. The iPod, Segway, V.92 modem standard, Bit Torrent, SATA, USB 2.0, and Google Image Search are all introduced.

That's a lot different world than we live in now and sometimes you need an end of life to force people onto a newer platform and update their applications. Otherwise, they never will and you're forced to support multiple platforms.

SI

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I'm no Microsoft fan but XP needed to go away. Not because it was bad, quite the contrary, but you can't support software forever and it was 13 years old.

According to this, in the year XP came out:
Computer History for the year 2001

Intel was producing the Pentium III, a standard hard drive was about 100 GB, Napster was on top of the world, Compaq and HP merged, and IE 6.0 came with XP. The iPod, Segway, V.92 modem standard, Bit Torrent, SATA, USB 2.0, and Google Image Search are all introduced.

That's a lot different world than we live in now and sometimes you need an end of life to force people onto a newer platform and update their applications. Otherwise, they never will and you're forced to support multiple platforms.

SI

As a software developer I can't stand that XP was supported for as long as it was. It still holds me back on a daily basis from developing applications with cutting edge techniques because, hey, some goober might still be using XP or IE7. I want that OS deader than dead. I wish they hadn't patched it for the heartbleed bug and rather used that as further rationale to get people to move on.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

As a software developer I can't stand that XP was supported for as long as it was. It still holds me back on a daily basis from developing applications with cutting edge techniques because, hey, some goober might still be using XP or IE7. I want that OS deader than dead. I wish they hadn't patched it for the heartbleed bug and rather used that as further rationale to get people to move on.

Wouldn't had hurt had they developed a successor that was worth upgrading to. I had the same issues as a developer for 12 years, but we spent more time wondering why the hell the new ones were made to the point where XP was even an option.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Either way, XBox One owners are getting a good experience and Sony users are getting a good experience.

This I think is the most important thing. Even if they're ported over, Xbox One owners are going to get great cross-platform games. They're going to get Halo V.

I don't think anyone who buys an Xbox One, is going to walk away with a lesser experience, overall and I'm a PS4 owner.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Wouldn't had hurt had they developed a successor that was worth upgrading to. I had the same issues as a developer for 12 years, but we spent more time wondering why the hell the new ones were made to the point where XP was even an option.

If someone can't see the benefits of windows 7 compared to XP they are crazy.

[cartman]

I guess I misread that Titanfall has been the best selling game title across all consoles and PCs each of the past two months.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

If someone can't see the benefits of windows 7 compared to XP they are crazy.

Then color me crazy, my limited exposure to Win7 did not impress me in the slightest.

About the only good thing I can think to say about it off hand is that it isn't Win8 (which will likely send me away from PC's forever).

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

If someone can't see the benefits of windows 7 compared to XP they are crazy.

Dont forget the VISTA experiment in the middle

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Dont forget the VISTA experiment in the middle

I'm pretty sure nearly everybody has already forgotten about that one

[Fidatelo]

Vista was crap, but Win7 is awesome. Win 8 is even better but I can understand those turned off by the interface. Me, I enjoy the ridiculous boot times.

Anyways, this thread should get back to games where it belongs.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

Me, I enjoy the ridiculous boot times.

I got my first SSD at the same time as my first Win8 machine, so I always give that all the credit for my magical boot time. Perhaps Win8 deserves a small portion of it too.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I'm pretty sure nearly everybody has already forgotten about that one

Oh agreed...and I ran a version of ME for 4 years...and I still think vista was the worst ever. lol

But the statement was:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Wouldn't had hurt had they developed a successor that was worth upgrading to.

So the successor to XP was Vista...that was the point I was making.

Not Win 7.

[MizzouRah]

Windows 7 is the best OS MS has ever developed.

Was MBBF this much of a yapper when we were discussing the x360 and ps3?

[NobodyHere]

Judging from past posts,

YES

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Windows 7 is the best OS MS has ever developed.

Was MBBF this much of a yapper when we were discussing the x360 and ps3?

Yeah but it was more of the YOU'LL SEE YOU'LL ALL SEE variety.

[ISiddiqui]

FWIW, I think Vista was unfairly maligned. All Win7 was was Vista SP2, really. Remember that project that Microsoft had where people were told they were testing a new OS and they loved it and then they revealed they were using Vista?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

So much movement of big-name developers right now. Seems like we have a new move of a good developer every two weeks anymore.

Rare cuts senior staff in studio 'methodology' change - CVG US

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

FWIW, I think Vista was unfairly maligned. All Win7 was was Vista SP2, really. Remember that project that Microsoft had where people were told they were testing a new OS and they loved it and then they revealed they were using Vista?

Yeah, I bought a new computer literally 2 weeks before win7 was released. No choice my old one had died. Used Vista home premium from then until last October when I bought a new rig. Never had any issues during that time. Didn't seem much different than either xp or my new win7 machine. FWIW just "normal" home use with games like OOTP or FM being the hardest things I run.

[BillJasper]

Just bought Need for Speed: Rivals for the PS4 via PSN. Trying to move into the 21st century!

[stevew]

OSX Mavericks is where it's at.

[SackAttack]

Picked up FIFA and inFamous: Second Son for the PS4 today courtesy of the triple trade-in bonus credit at Target.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Sony unsurprisingly decides to enter the Chinese market.

PlayStation heads for China | Joystiq

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Not good for PS4 fans. The Order: 1886 moved back to early 2015 release.

The Order: 1886 delayed until 2015 | Joystiq

[chadritt]

I think its been proven fairly frequently that small delays in video games development usually turn out well. Not Duke Nukem type delays but Bioshock Infinite, last of us, and GTA type delays.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by chadritt

I think its been proven fairly frequently that small delays in video games development usually turn out well. Not Duke Nukem type delays but Bioshock Infinite, last of us, and GTA type delays.

No doubt.. it's better than releasing a buggy mess.

[DaddyTorgo]

So wait - MBBF posts a bit of down-news about Sony and you guys are disagreeing instead of sitting there open-mouthed at this historic occurrence?

Order:1886 just looks like a pretty weird premise to me, so honestly I'm not too upset by this news.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by chadritt

I think its been proven fairly frequently that small delays in video games development usually turn out well. Not Duke Nukem type delays but Bioshock Infinite, last of us, and GTA type delays.

Sure, but they're not as good for the "fans" who care more about cheerleading Sony.

[chadritt]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

So wait - MBBF posts a bit of down-news about Sony and you guys are disagreeing instead of sitting there open-mouthed at this historic occurrence?

I try not to look at whos posting in these threads anymore. Just deal with it as information. Now that you point it out i am in a state of shock.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

So wait - MBBF posts a bit of down-news about Sony and you guys are disagreeing instead of sitting there open-mouthed at this historic occurrence?

Order:1886 just looks like a pretty weird premise to me, so honestly I'm not too upset by this news.

Everyone doesn't have him on ignore by now?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Sony CEO Believes PS4 Will be More Profitable Than PS2

[SackAttack]

Considering the controllers sell for double now what they did ten years ago, I wouldn't be shocked.