LXXVIII: Politicus Lupus (GAME OVER!! SEE POST #2593 FOR RESULTS)

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Chubby

IF I hadn't vetoed I could have claimed I overslept or whatever. I pretty much knew how bad that veto would hurt my district and our party and i did it anyways to hurt the wolves because that came 1st.

No you couldn't have -- you were posting in the middle of the night!

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

A) Yes, I was just heeded warning that you'll have to change your vote if I'm the nominee. You're free to vote for me for now, just sayin is all.

B) You're not understanding me. By doing it the other way around, it would've been a more beneficial wolf play. I'm not saying the night-kill wouldn't benefit us in this conjured up untrue scenario, I'm saying that it was LESS beneficial, so why do it?

I certainly hope the repubs don't put a wolf up to run for Prez. That would be pretty detrimental for the village especially since I think they've already done so once...

If you are making the case for nightkills were done to benefit the wolves with districts then I just don't see your point. You probably thought render wasn't likely to be guarded and instead of risking a block with a higher profile target you went safe to ensure you picked up one district with minimum chance of being blocked.

[Passacaglia]

Chubby -- looks like you only started posting at 4:48 my time. It's middle of the night where I come from, but I could see how you'd call that morning, so I take my 'middle of the night' comment back.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

No you couldn't have -- you were posting in the middle of the night!

Sure I could have. "Meh, i planned on sending it in in the morning but I overslept."

When I was posting, I hadn't sent in my orders yet because what i felt was best for the party and the village at the time didn't mesh with what the rest of you guys wanted.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Chubby -- looks like you only started posting at 4:48 my time. It's middle of the night where I come from, but I could see how you'd call that morning, so I take my 'middle of the night' comment back.

heh not a biggie

as for today, I just get laserbeamed when i'm home and think I have a good read on things (like I do today)

I think heinz is wolf #1 and i'm sticking with that vote. i don't buy what he's selling for numerous reasons; most recently that he's trying to force being the repub nominee to exempt him from votes/criticism.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Chubby

heh not a biggie

as for today, I just get laserbeamed when i'm home and think I have a good read on things (like I do today)

I think heinz is wolf #1 and i'm sticking with that vote. i don't buy what he's selling for numerous reasons; most recently that he's trying to force being the repub nominee to exempt him from votes/criticism.

Can you run those reasons by me again, so I don't have to scour through the last few pages figuring them out?

[Tyrith]

He hasn't forced jack. However, if we believe it's the seer it's the smart thing to do, wouldn't you think?

[Passacaglia]

Yeah, I'm scouring anyway. Chubby, seems like one of the reasons is that he hasn't scanned illini, and illini is likely the other wolf in your mind. Why wouldn't he just say he scanned illini as good?

[illinifan999]

Pass, let's say for a minute you believe that I'm a villager. Does my plan not give us the best chance for winning?

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Can you run those reasons by me again, so I don't have to scour through the last few pages figuring them out?

his story about why he hasn't scanned illini when to me it's a no brainer that the seer would do so if he was looking within his own party.

his claiming that nightkills are to gain districts for the wolves and then glossing over last nights kill.

he has been on the Dem radar for a while

i think his claiming seer is a way to force a win by getting rid of PB. I'm also guessing that he knew he was going to be the nominee already (as we know how we want to be Dem nominee) or is using his seer reveal as a way to ensure he's in the running for Prez

[jeheinz72]

One more point that came to me on the 3-1 vs 2-2 issue.

Let's not forget this is a game with Major and Minor victory conditions. Wouldn't it be pretty f'ed up of CR to basically put all the wolves one on side, giving that side very little chance of actually getting a major win?

I know from my POV, that if it ends up that I was behind the 8-ball from Day One in that regard, I'll be more than a little upset at CR.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Yeah, I'm scouring anyway. Chubby, seems like one of the reasons is that he hasn't scanned illini, and illini is likely the other wolf in your mind. Why wouldn't he just say he scanned illini as good?

i think he listed who he had scanned early on (before I got onto illini and why he didn't scan him and made it an issue)

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Chubby

he has been on the Dem radar for a while

[sarcasm]
Seems to me that we almost certainly point to my being a villager then
[/sarcasm]

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

One more point that came to me on the 3-1 vs 2-2 issue.

Let's not forget this is a game with Major and Minor victory conditions. Wouldn't it be pretty f'ed up of CR to basically put all the wolves one on side, giving that side very little chance of actually getting a major win?

I know from my POV, that if it ends up that I was behind the 8-ball from Day One in that regard, I'll be more than a little upset at CR.

You are again assuming CR handpicked and didn't randomly pick the wolves.

Someone check with CR on this.

This along with pushing the 2-2 as it has to be is another reason (for pass )

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

One more point that came to me on the 3-1 vs 2-2 issue.

Let's not forget this is a game with Major and Minor victory conditions. Wouldn't it be pretty f'ed up of CR to basically put all the wolves one on side, giving that side very little chance of actually getting a major win?

I know from my POV, that if it ends up that I was behind the 8-ball from Day One in that regard, I'll be more than a little upset at CR.

To compound this, I'd contend that even if he DID stack the deck against the villager repubs in that regard, he wouldn't then also make a wolf be the district that borders the Dems (giving the villager repubs no chance to make in-roads into that side of the aisle to gain districts)

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Chubby

You are again assuming CR handpicked and didn't randomly pick the wolves.

Someone check with CR on this.

This along with pushing the 2-2 as it has to be is another reason (for pass )

I don't know how many games you've run, but I'm pretty sure Goal Numero Uno is to run a fair and balanced game. At least making sure it was something like a fair chance for all parties to win seems like something CR would do. He's done it in the past with his games.

[illinifan999]

Originally Posted by illinifan999

Pass, let's say for a minute you believe that I'm a villager. Does my plan not give us the best chance for winning?

Or anyone for that matter?

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

[sarcasm]
Seems to me that we almost certainly point to my being a villager then
[/sarcasm]

[sarcasm]
Clearly if he says he's seer than he must be! There's no chance he could be simply trying to win the game for the wolves.
[/sarcasm]


I like this game

[jeheinz72]

But also, yeah, if Illini is my partner in crime, why not just say I scanned him as clean instead of like Cronin (who I scanned on Night 2, the night he died)

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

I don't know how many games you've run, but I'm pretty sure Goal Numero Uno is to run a fair and balanced game. At least making sure it was something like a fair chance for all parties to win seems like something CR would do. He's done it in the past with his games.

Why are you so afraid to have someone ask CR?

Someone should email him and ask him. Someone not myself, heinz, or illini

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Chubby

village and the fact that you are trying to paint the most cleared Dem behind KWhit as bad is speakng volumes)

Is there any Dem who can corroborate that statement -- did any of you consider Chubby to be the most cleared Dem behind KWhit?

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Chubby

[sarcasm]
Clearly if he says he's seer than he must be! There's no chance he could be simply trying to win the game for the wolves.
[/sarcasm]


I like this game

Oh I know that's not true. I've both been Seer and been lynched (when I had all the wolves pegged mind you) and fake revealed as the Seer and got away with it.

I know for certain that revealing doesn't belie truth, or that people will believe you.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

But also, yeah, if Illini is my partner in crime, why not just say I scanned him as clean instead of like Cronin (who I scanned on Night 2, the night he died)

like i told pass, you didn't think it would be an issue and figured clearing two dead guys would help you more since that's more convienent to say

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Chubby

Why are you so afraid to have someone ask CR?

Someone should email him and ask him. Someone not myself, heinz, or illini

I'm not against it, I'm all for it. I just don't think he'll answer it (maybe he would have before today, but he likely won't now).

If someone wants to, be my guest.

[mccollins]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Is there any Dem who can corroborate that statement -- did any of you consider Chubby to be the most cleared Dem behind KWhit?

We had all nominated him for President yesterday...

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Chubby

like i told pass, you didn't think it would be an issue and figured clearing two dead guys would help you more since that's more convienent to say

Actually, it's my experience that whoever the seer clears (be it dead people, alive people, etc) it really doesn't matter. It all just boils down to who they say is a wolf.

[mccollins]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

I don't know how many games you've run, but I'm pretty sure Goal Numero Uno is to run a fair and balanced game. At least making sure it was something like a fair chance for all parties to win seems like something CR would do. He's done it in the past with his games.

I agree, but not to this point:

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

To compound this, I'd contend that even if he DID stack the deck against the villager repubs in that regard, he wouldn't then also make a wolf be the district that borders the Dems (giving the villager repubs no chance to make in-roads into that side of the aisle to gain districts)

Where you can't be a wolf simply because you're in one of the center two districts.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by illinifan999

Pass, let's say for a minute you believe that I'm a villager. Does my plan not give us the best chance for winning?

I'm not sure about BEST. I don't like relying on the BG to protect you. Isn't there a sneaky wolf, who can get past the BG?

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Chubby

I'm also guessing that he knew he was going to be the nominee already (as we know how we want to be Dem nominee) or is using his seer reveal as a way to ensure he's in the running for Prez

Untrue. In fact given my popularity standing in the party, I'd say going into last night/today, I was highly unlikely to be a candidate, except possibly in a case of as a sacrificial lamb to KWhit.

I'll happily decline the nomination if it means we lynch PB, since he's a wolf. though I think, since I'm telling the truth, that getting the Seer in the Pres spot is a HUGE win for the village.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by mccollins

I agree, but not to this point:


Where you can't be a wolf simply because you're in one of the center two districts.

Fair enough, I'd agree that in a 2-2 setup, I could completely be a wolf.

I'd think in a 3-1 setup, with the 3 being Repubs, it'd be HIGHLY friggin unfair to the villager repubs if I was also a wolf.

[jeheinz72]

But it also warrants mentioning that if it's a 2-2 setup, then I have made a VERY poor play with a fake reveal here.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by mccollins

We had all nominated him for President yesterday...

Which the other Dem's will agree with when they get online. I just found the repub reactions interesting regarding voting and nominees.

[chesapeake]

I guess today makes up for Fri-Mon being a little slow. And on a day when I have a number of meetings to deal with.

Folks are forgetting that individual members can lose their seats in tonight's election, thus leaving a vacant seat(s) for a neighboring member to pick up. The wolves can very easily reach critical mass tonight.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Chubby

Why are you so afraid to have someone ask CR?

Someone should email him and ask him. Someone not myself, heinz, or illini

As I figured, CR said he couldn't answer that.

[illinifan999]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I'm not sure about BEST. I don't like relying on the BG to protect you. Isn't there a sneaky wolf, who can get past the BG?

5. Sneak clause--you gain the ability to avoid being discovered by the bodyguard if you're the wolf "killing"

I take it to mean, he just won't be identified during the failed attack.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

But it also warrants mentioning that if it's a 2-2 setup, then I have made a VERY poor play with a fake reveal here.

again, I don't think it's 2-2. Please stop tyring to push that as fact and have someone check with CR about whether the wolves were selected at random or not.

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

As I figured, CR said he couldn't answer that.

which stinks but i really hate the fact that certain people are pushing game mechanics as fact.

The one game I run was random on roles if I remember correctly. I don't think it's unreasonable to have 3-1 in terms of wolves in parties and i certainly don't think it's out of th realm of possibility that the wolves were picked at random

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by Chubby

again, I don't think it's 2-2. Please stop tyring to push that as fact and have someone check with CR about whether the wolves were selected at random or not.

As I predicted, he wouldn't answer it (see Pass' note above)

And I'll push whatever I please, thank you vry much.

[jeheinz72]

Well I'm done. I can tell I'm about to teeter on over-stating my case (or already have).

I'll just re-iterate to think hard about this villagers out there.

I'll hop back, hopefully not for a long while as I have work to do.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Chubby

his story about why he hasn't scanned illini when to me it's a no brainer that the seer would do so if he was looking within his own party.

his claiming that nightkills are to gain districts for the wolves and then glossing over last nights kill.

he has been on the Dem radar for a while

i think his claiming seer is a way to force a win by getting rid of PB. I'm also guessing that he knew he was going to be the nominee already (as we know how we want to be Dem nominee) or is using his seer reveal as a way to ensure he's in the running for Prez

I still don't see illini as a big deal. In fact, I kind of think it's not worth scanning him -- voting him out would have been a freebie in a sense, but voting for someone else is a dicier proposition.

I think the difference between the night-kills is that with the kills before that, the wolves could make gains knowing that the villagers weren't thinking about it for the most part. Either way, his claim about the night-kills points more to mccollins, which he isn't pointing at. There could definitely be more there, but it's not enough for me to know he's lying.

Can another Dem besides Lathum attest to heinz having been on their radar?

[PurdueBrad]

Just read through my PM's and I found a wolf! I'll catch up in a minute but I scanned Heinz and found him to be a wolf. He wasn't doing any killing to the best of myknowledge but something happened in my scan that "startled" both he and I. To make it clear, I scanned the following people during the game: Tyrith, Passacaglia, RendeR, and now Heinz.

[PurdueBrad]

Oh yeah:

vote to lynch JEHeinz

[mccollins]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Can another Dem besides Lathum attest to heinz having been on their radar?

Heinz has been one of our biggest suspects. Along with you and Tyrith, but we figured that was because you three were doing the vast majority of the talking.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by mccollins

We had all nominated him for President yesterday...

Really? I thought CR said neither Party had nominated anyone for President. And why would you nominate him over KWhit?

[mccollins]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Really? I thought CR said neither Party had nominated anyone for President. And why would you nominate him over KWhit?

We nominated him in our thread, but I guess we have to translate that to the main thread or PM Chief Rum. Any Dem can confirm this.

KWhit is our most liberal member. No way the general public elects him Prez.

[illinifan999]

no one ever scans me

[Chubby]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Really? I thought CR said neither Party had nominated anyone for President. And why would you nominate him over KWhit?

also the most popular Dem

oh i so feel the slurry's getting ready to hit me...

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

Just read through my PM's and I found a wolf! I'll catch up in a minute but I scanned Heinz and found him to be a wolf. He wasn't doing any killing to the best of myknowledge but something happened in my scan that "startled" both he and I. To make it clear, I scanned the following people during the game: Tyrith, Passacaglia, RendeR, and now Heinz.

What were the results of those scans?

[Chubby]

Not that I am super thrilled with agreeing with what mccollins is saying but what we're saying is all in the dem thread for any dem to dispute if we aren't telling the truth.

[mccollins]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

Just read through my PM's and I found a wolf! I'll catch up in a minute but I scanned Heinz and found him to be a wolf. He wasn't doing any killing to the best of myknowledge but something happened in my scan that "startled" both he and I. To make it clear, I scanned the following people during the game: Tyrith, Passacaglia, RendeR, and now Heinz.

Finally online!