Werewolf XLI - Apocalypse Awakens - Game over!

[Raiders Army]

*Deadpool*

I'll be back on later during lunch. I'm suspicious of Prof X and Doom.

[Barkeep49]

Warpath any thoughts on who a good 4th member might be?

[Alan T]

Well I had liked Sinister before. Obviously that no longer is an option. I do not know if I feel confident with too many of the others. If we need a 4th, perhaps Moon Knight might be an ok choice. I find it highly unlikely of him being a horseman due to his high profile nature.

Unfortunatly I don't have any super power way of generating a trust list like many others seem to. I mainly would like to stick with people who aren't crazy to go after someone who might give us other good information like the professor though.

[Barkeep49]

What about Silver Surfer? He seemed to value working cooperatively. I'm guessing either you or Cannonball is likely to be a member of the Apocolypse, but as long as we discuss our actions and then work in unison I actually think putitng a bad guy on our team decreases the influence they might otherwise have.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

What about Silver Surfer? He seemed to value working cooperatively. I'm guessing either you or Cannonball is likely to be a member of the Apocolypse, but as long as we discuss our actions and then work in unison I actually think putitng a bad guy on our team decreases the influence they might otherwise have.

I am less comfortable with Silver Surfer. He hasn't done anything that smells like a bad action to me so far, and that is actually a little concerning. Usually by now even good guys have messed up somewhere. I know I've made a few mistakes so far, but with him it seems he has known exactly where to attack to not be noticed.

Also Silver Surfer fits the ideal profile of one of the horsemen. While I feel better about him than some others that are around, I don't feel as comfortable enough to have a trust of any sorts for him so far.

[Barkeep49]

Ok fair enough.

Moon Knight would you be interested in joining Mutants First? You have seen our style and know what we're looking for.

[Alan T]

Just for the full list of people who currently are solo:

Flying Solo: Deadpool, Surfer, Marvel, Moon

Deadpool concerns me due to attacks on Doom out of the blue for apparently no reason after he stated he was attacked the night before without anyone saying otherwise.

Marvel I just get all types of bad vibes from. Has been involved in both killings of the 12 as well.

SilverSurfer I already stated my fears about.

Unfortunatly I don't know enough about MoonKnight to know he is good, but he seemed interested in a more active group.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Just for the full list of people who currently are solo:

Flying Solo: Deadpool, Surfer, Marvel, Moon

Deadpool concerns me due to attacks on Doom out of the blue for apparently no reason after he stated he was attacked the night before without anyone saying otherwise.

Marvel I just get all types of bad vibes from. Has been involved in both killings of the 12 as well.

SilverSurfer I already stated my fears about.

Unfortunatly I don't know enough about MoonKnight to know he is good, but he seemed interested in a more active group.

Deadpool claims he was attacked? Was this the same time as Doom?

DD

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Deadpool claims he was attacked? Was this the same time as Doom?

DD

Doom claimed he was attacked, Deadpool then attacked him the next day.

[Poli]

Duly noted.

DD

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

First: Prof X claims to know information about the 12. The bad guy team knows info about the 12. Just saying it's a great way to do a fake role reveal. That said I can't see my good friend Eric being the minion of Apocolypse and believe him that he's using his powers as he states.

Second: Warpath, I continue to remain suspicious of Hawkeye and would continue to support the idea that Mutants First think seriously about that sort of attack.

Third: I'd really like to get a fourth member of a team before the attacks. Any suggestions Cannonball and Warpath? We are the most successful team out there so I would think we'd be attractive to join for somebody.

(Cannonball)

"Well ah'd rather not have any of the people who attacked me on day 1 on our team, as Ah'm sure you understand Mr. Magneto. That would be the Professor, Moon Knight, Gambit, Mathematic, or the Silver Surfer. It'd be nice to have a fellow X-Men on the team too instead of one who hates us I sup'pose."

(Can someone repost a list of who attacked who on Day 2? (if not already done while I'm catching up)

[Alan T]

Day 2 attacks:

Post #1143 (3:23PM) Mystique attacks Hawkeye (knife)
Post #1161 (3:37PM) Warpath attacks Hawkeye (knife)
Post #1197 (4:22PM) Deadpool attacks Doom (special attack - surgical strike)
Post #1202 (4:28PM) Wolverine attacks Doom (claws)
Post #1206 (4:30PM) Doom activates force field
Post #1224 (4:44PM) Doom attacks Deadpool (mystic)
Post #1227 (4:50PM) Magneto attacks Hawkeye (magnetic pulse)
Post #1244 (5:06PM) Moon Knight attacks Doom (dart)
Post #1245 (5:07PM) Doom activates Doombot
Post #1254 (5:18PM) Venom attacks Deadpool (punch)
Post #1262 (5:25PM) Captain Marvel attacks Moon Knight (energy blast)
Post #1266 (5:31PM) Mandarin attacks Hawkeye (ring - fire)
Post #1279 (5:57PM) Sinister attacks Hawkeye (energy blast)
Post #1290 (6:17PM) Silver Surfer attacks Deadpool (power cosmic)
Post #1312 (7:13PM) Captain America attacks Mystique (special attack - identify weak point)
Post #1317 (7:17PM) Captain Marvel attacks Mystique (2nd attack - energy blast)
Post #1323 (7:22PM) Moon Knight attacks Mystique (2nd attack - dart)
Post #1326 (7:23PM) Prof X attacks Mystique (psionic blast)
Post #1341 (7:38PM) Cannonball attacks Hawkeye (rocket blast)
Post #1345 (7:45PM) Hulk attacks Mystique (green fist)
Post #1346 (7:47PM) Mystique attacks Hawkeye (2nd attack - garrot)
Post #1357 (8:20PM) Juggernaut attacks Hawkeye (pounding)
Post #1368 (9:51PM) Storm attacks Mystique

[Qwikshot]

(Gambit)

"Merci, sifting through this is like wading the bayou. I think I am on a dead team, no? Perhaps I should go it alone, or find a new team, one not so quiet eh? I have a concern though with fellow heroes moving from team to team, alas, we cannot find a consistent link to who's a saboteur if we keep moving from team to team, which would make me suspiscious of those moving and those inviting members to move. Easier to hide tracks then no?, just like mah theiving days. Anyone up for some cards?"

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

(Gambit)

"Remy Lebeau is here. I plan to stay awhile."

(Cannonball)

Welcome Gambit. Please don't attack me again.

[Poli]

OOC: I'm going to reserve my attack for tonight...near the deadline. I'm going to go take care of some personal stuff now.

DD

[Thomkal]

Thanks Alan for the Day 2 Attacks

[Thomkal]

(Cannonball)

"Ah'have to say I'm not too pleased that both members of my team want to invite people who attacked me on day 1. I especially don't want Moon Knight on the team as he was the one who suggested Ah would be a good target"

[Barkeep49]

Cannonball: That's more than fair. You notice I was just trying to ascertain whether Moon Knight would even be interested in our team. I certainly can understand your reluctance to work with him, however I would also hope that you could think about putting that aside for the greater good. 3 is a somewhat useless number for a team and so finding a fourth seems like something we should do, as I think it's lent us a great advantage in our actions to this point.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

(Cannonball)

"Ah'have to say I'm not too pleased that both members of my team want to invite people who attacked me on day 1. I especially don't want Moon Knight on the team as he was the one who suggested Ah would be a good target"

Cannonball, I think we have to keep an open minded about the personal nature of some attacks. I can't say my decision on day 1 that Ironman would make a good choice was any better. I am far more concerned with the attacks on Mystique out of the blue while we do not know the allegiance of Hawkeye. If we limit ourselves to only people who have not attacked either you or Mystique, we probably are best off continuing with just 3 of us. However that will lessen our effectiveness of attack.

Perhaps the lack of continued attack upon you could be construed as an admittance to mistake and we can let byegones be bygones.

[Barkeep49]

Thank you Warpath for making an even more eloquent presentation of the point I was trying to make. While I hope Cannonball would reconsider his veto against those who have attacked him, I would not want to force on him someone against his will.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Thank you Warpath for making an even more eloquent presentation of the point I was trying to make. While I hope Cannonball would reconsider his veto against those who have attacked him, I would not want to force on him someone against his will.

I agree. I think from the start we know 25% of the heros here are working for Apocolypse, that means there is a good chance one of our members might have been compromised from the start. We also have a good chance of having one additional member of the 12 in our ranks, and then one ordinary hero that does not belong to the 12.

While the possibility of one of our members being bad is a very real possibility, us choosing to work in unison I agree lessens the chance of the harm they do. I hope my original trust in both you and Canonball was well founded, but continuing to make decisions jointly I think is our best way to constantly readdress that.

[Thomkal]

(Cannonball)

Here are my thoughts on the various targets being suggested.

1)Hawkeye. We need to know whether the attacks on Mystique and Doom were either diversions to keep us from taking out Hawkeye or just happenstance. I am not sure I buy this "aura arrow" that he brings up because he's close to death rather than something he should have used right from the start to give us some early information on a player. Keeping him alive allows him to heal as well as get the energy back he needs for the arrow.

2) Professor X. I'm a bit biased here because he attacked me, who is good though there's no proof of that of course, and one known member of the 12, plus being around another member of the 12 at their time of death. The whole situation with his reveal before the death was announced was just odd. And his claim that he learns a member of the 12 each day could just be a fake because if he's Apoc or a Horseman, he already knows who the 12 are.

3)People who attacked Doom. Seems strange to attack him when no one else stepped forward with any conflicting information about the attack on him. Yeah perhaps the whole doom-bot being destroyed when there was no wreckage from it found is a bit strange, but I also don't think its possible for him to fake it like that. So I have to be a bit suspicious of people who attacked him.

4)People who attacked Iron Man and/or Mystique. Captain Marvel is the only one who attacked both I believe, but I find it unlikely the bad guys would let her attack both of them knowing she'd stand out if she did. I'd really like to look at the people who attacked Mystique on day 2 as I'm sure there has to be some bad guys in on that attack since we now know she's a member of the 12. I think we should be focussing there today.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Cannonball: That's more than fair. You notice I was just trying to ascertain whether Moon Knight would even be interested in our team. I certainly can understand your reluctance to work with him, however I would also hope that you could think about putting that aside for the greater good. 3 is a somewhat useless number for a team and so finding a fourth seems like something we should do, as I think it's lent us a great advantage in our actions to this point.

(Cannonball)

"Ah would welcome Moon Knight with open arms to our team if there was proof that he is indeed good. There is none despite various people vouching for him. And not only did he attack me, he also attacked our other teammate Mystique, so Ah really don't think we should be trusting him much right now."

[Blade6119]

I appreciate the offer, but i dont want to cause any ripples in your team chemistry. And i likely would, as the path your group seems intent upon with Hawkeye is one i have stated quite a few times is not one im really willing to take. Mutant First is a fine team, and will find a hero far more suitable then me for its membership, of that im sure. I am honored you would even consider me, but im afraid i must decline.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Cannonball, I think we have to keep an open minded about the personal nature of some attacks. I can't say my decision on day 1 that Ironman would make a good choice was any better. I am far more concerned with the attacks on Mystique out of the blue while we do not know the allegiance of Hawkeye. If we limit ourselves to only people who have not attacked either you or Mystique, we probably are best off continuing with just 3 of us. However that will lessen our effectiveness of attack.

Perhaps the lack of continued attack upon you could be construed as an admittance to mistake and we can let byegones be bygones.

(Cannonball)

"Ah'm sorry if Ah'm bein a bit big headed about this, because Ah know that I too made a mistake in attacking Iron Man, but he's attacked two people on our team who are good. Ah am not sure how you can support him as a candidate to join our team given that fact."

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Day 2 attacks:

Post #1143 (3:23PM) Mystique attacks Hawkeye (knife)
Post #1161 (3:37PM) Warpath attacks Hawkeye (knife)
Post #1197 (4:22PM) Deadpool attacks Doom (special attack - surgical strike)
Post #1202 (4:28PM) Wolverine attacks Doom (claws)
Post #1206 (4:30PM) Doom activates force field
Post #1224 (4:44PM) Doom attacks Deadpool (mystic)
Post #1227 (4:50PM) Magneto attacks Hawkeye (magnetic pulse)
Post #1244 (5:06PM) Moon Knight attacks Doom (dart)
Post #1245 (5:07PM) Doom activates Doombot
Post #1254 (5:18PM) Venom attacks Deadpool (punch)
Post #1262 (5:25PM) Captain Marvel attacks Moon Knight (energy blast)
Post #1266 (5:31PM) Mandarin attacks Hawkeye (ring - fire)
Post #1279 (5:57PM) Sinister attacks Hawkeye (energy blast)
Post #1290 (6:17PM) Silver Surfer attacks Deadpool (power cosmic)
Post #1312 (7:13PM) Captain America attacks Mystique (special attack - identify weak point)
Post #1317 (7:17PM) Captain Marvel attacks Mystique (2nd attack - energy blast)
Post #1323 (7:22PM) Moon Knight attacks Mystique (2nd attack - dart)
Post #1326 (7:23PM) Prof X attacks Mystique (psionic blast)
Post #1341 (7:38PM) Cannonball attacks Hawkeye (rocket blast)
Post #1345 (7:45PM) Hulk attacks Mystique (green fist)
Post #1346 (7:47PM) Mystique attacks Hawkeye (2nd attack - garrot)
Post #1357 (8:20PM) Juggernaut attacks Hawkeye (pounding)
Post #1368 (9:51PM) Storm attacks Mystique

I thikn Daredevil attacked Mystique closer to the deadline as well. I remember that his billy club put her out of her misery

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

I thikn Daredevil attacked Mystique closer to the deadline as well. I remember that his billy club put her out of her misery

You are right, didn't scroll down all the way in my file I guess. Here is the rest of that day 2:

Post #1370 (9:51PM) Captain Britian uses Force Field on Captain Britian
Post #1370 (9:51PM) Captain Britian attacks Mystique (Punch)
Post #1371 (9:53PM) Daredevil attacks Mystique

[Alan T]

Magneto and Cannonball, what do you all think of Venom? I still think Hawkeye is the best choice today, but something about Venom is really starting to -bug- me. I'm trying to put my finger on what exactly.

[Blade6119]

I wont be around much today, i have classes up until pretty close to the deadline. I have an hour break in there around 3:30 my time, so ill place my attack then.

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

(Gambit)

"Merci, sifting through this is like wading the bayou. I think I am on a dead team, no? Perhaps I should go it alone, or find a new team, one not so quiet eh? I have a concern though with fellow heroes moving from team to team, alas, we cannot find a consistent link to who's a saboteur if we keep moving from team to team, which would make me suspiscious of those moving and those inviting members to move. Easier to hide tracks then no?, just like mah theiving days. Anyone up for some cards?"

(Mandarin)

Pah!
If your team is ineffective, it might be time to leave. Besides someone has already mentioned that the sabatoge is a choice. And given how ineffective we have been How it is likely that that hasn't had to be used as of yet. I am starting to believe that tracking the attacks will be ineffective in terms of points.

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

(Cannonball)

Welcome Gambit. Please don't attack me again.

(OOC)

Funny I don't remember attacking you, I wasn't myself.

(please note for quick readers, I replaced Chief Rum)

[Swaggs]

Not too much happening.

I will be at work until close to the deadline. Will try to pop in and get an attack in.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

Remember, just getting someone's health down to zero does not kill them.

(Silver Surfer)

It doesn't?

[path12]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

(ooc) Correct, barring some energy bestowing power someone else might have. In the comics, you might see someone like Monica use her power to amp up other people. Who knows if they have a similar power here.

-Anxiety

(Silver Surfer)

I could help with this. But I am not sure about you yet. I will consider it.

[path12]

Originally Posted by path12

(Silver Surfer)

I could help with this. But I am not sure about you yet. I will consider it.

I apologize. I read incorrectly. Health does not equal energy.

[Bonegavel]

(Wolverine)

I still want to remind everyone of the Horse statue found at the attack on DOOM. Non such was found at the attemp on Prof X.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but so far only 2 night kills have been attempted and neither have succeeded.

1 against Doom
1 against Prof X

And the night is when the bad guys get a freebie kill that has nothing to do with energy expenditures.

A few points about this:
1) I guess they can refuse to exercise this attack
2) Other player(s) can kill at night and not be Apoc or a Horseman

That horse has to mean something. Since Doom didn't die and therefore tell us if he was good or bad, we dont' know if that was just a calling card of a Horseman, or that a horse statue appears at the death of a horseman (the Doombot was eliminated).

Doom may have destroyed his own bot and planted the statue (I don't know if hoopsguy would allow this, but I don't see any evidence that he wouldn't. Hoops, would you allow somebody to request this?).

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Bonegavel

(Wolverine)

I still want to remind everyone of the Horse statue found at the attack on DOOM. Non such was found at the attemp on Prof X.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but so far only 2 night kills have been attempted and neither have succeeded.

1 against Doom
1 against Prof X

And the night is when the bad guys get a freebie kill that has nothing to do with energy expenditures.

A few points about this:
1) I guess they can refuse to exercise this attack
2) Other player(s) can kill at night and not be Apoc or a Horseman

That horse has to mean something. Since Doom didn't die and therefore tell us if he was good or bad, we dont' know if that was just a calling card of a Horseman, or that a horse statue appears at the death of a horseman (the Doombot was eliminated).

Doom may have destroyed his own bot and planted the statue (I don't know if hoopsguy would allow this, but I don't see any evidence that he wouldn't. Hoops, would you allow somebody to request this?).

It was Sinister who was attacked and killed night 2 not the professor. Sinister was the one visiting the professor on night 2. We know that Sinister was a good guy, so we don't know the nature of the visit on night 2, just that he tried to visit the professor.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Magneto and Cannonball, what do you all think of Venom? I still think Hawkeye is the best choice today, but something about Venom is really starting to -bug- me. I'm trying to put my finger on what exactly.

(Cannonball)

I haven't decided on Venom on way or the other. He's aggravating Spidey, but that's natural for him.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

(Cannonball)

I haven't decided on Venom on way or the other. He's aggravating Spidey, but that's natural for him.

Normally I wouldn't find this a cause for alarm, but he didn't start coming after me until a little heat was directed his way when you indicated that the tentacles that the Professor saw could be related to Venom.

SPIDER-MAN

[GoldenEagle]

(Juggernaut)

Warpath, why do you think that Professor X is some sort of seer?

[LoneStarGirl]

(Captain Marvel)

I am afraid that I too, dont have that much energy after my two attacks last night... Unless I feel strongly about the candidate I probably won't be attacking. And I definitly wont be attacking Hawkeye. I still believe we should go after the quieter players..... such as Mathematic and Venom.... and I hate to say it: Hulk

[Poli]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

(Juggernaut)

Warpath, why do you think that Professor X is some sort of seer?

Well, it sounds like it to me.

DD

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

(Juggernaut)

Warpath, why do you think that Professor X is some sort of seer?

Its a common discussion in larger games that its tougher for the bad guys to win. There just is too many roles and too much information out there with the normal game balance once you get beyond 18+ players. I'm pretty sure Hoops knows this and he probably balanced things out to where the seer type role is split among multiple roles or is a weaker seer role.

I had originally thought that Sinister was our seer after day 1 when he came out vouching for one person (Professor). However that simply doesn't make sense if the person he trusts the most is the one he chose to visit that night. He simply had to have had some other purpose there or other role.

I think the ability to randomly get information about one of the 12 is a very realistic way of watering down a seer role and it at least sounds credible to me. Every day we get to know one more good guy who is a member of the 12 from this role.

I really have a hard time understanding why you would want to kill someone who possibly could be giving us this information? Worst case he is yanking our chain and we eventually kill him at some point. But think of how horrible a mistake it would be that we kill our seer after only giving us 1 other trusted person and not even making the bad guys have to do the dirty work?

[Alan T]

On a different note, a few different people have stated they plan on not using their attack today to conserve energy.

The ONLY way that even makes sense is if you plan on using it for something tonight. Without any night activity, tommorrow day time (day 4) you have the same amount of energy if you attack or don't attack. So all of these people announcing they aren't going to use their attack are either bad and have something bad planned for us tonight, or they are good and are just telegraphing their ability to do something special at night to the bad guys.

Either way, it seems to me that you would need some really special reason to want to not attack during the day, and it only applies to tonight's actions.

[hoopsguy]

Bonegavel/Wolverine:

It isn't my place to discourage people from creating their own reality within their posts in the thread - in a game where people don't have information on powers I that to be a perfectly acceptable strategy.

However, I would not directly aid someone in that kind of effort by integrating their logic into my Day/Night narratives or PMs.

Hopefully that gives you the answer to the question you posed.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by Alan T

On a different note, a few different people have stated they plan on not using their attack today to conserve energy.

The ONLY way that even makes sense is if you plan on using it for something tonight. Without any night activity, tommorrow day time (day 4) you have the same amount of energy if you attack or don't attack. So all of these people announcing they aren't going to use their attack are either bad and have something bad planned for us tonight, or they are good and are just telegraphing their ability to do something special at night to the bad guys.

Either way, it seems to me that you would need some really special reason to want to not attack during the day, and it only applies to tonight's actions.

Seems to me it takes a whole lot to kill someone off.

DD

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Alan T

It was Sinister who was attacked and killed night 2 not the professor. Sinister was the one visiting the professor on night 2. We know that Sinister was a good guy, so we don't know the nature of the visit on night 2, just that he tried to visit the professor.

(Mandarin)

Pah!
We know more than that, you western dog! The needle that Sinister was using was obviously for detecting a genetic shift. Even Professor X admits this much.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

Normally I wouldn't find this a cause for alarm, but he didn't start coming after me until a little heat was directed his way when you indicated that the tentacles that the Professor saw could be related to Venom.

SPIDER-MAN

(Cannonball)

No need for alarm Spidey. I simply don't know how I feel about him or you yet. I only brought up the tentacles because I was unsure of Venom's and Sinister's powers and wanted some clarification on it. Being Spiderman you should expect Venom to come after you, but I can understand your concern. If you have something outside that natural rivalry that should make us take a more serious look at Venom, then let us know.

[ntndeacon]

(Mandarin)

Even great minds need reference materials. And need help to produce them. I believe in day 2 someone produced a list of who had vouced for who, but Ican not seem to locate that post. Would someone repost that list?

[Alan T]

I don't have it available handily but it was something like this:

Sinister vouched for ProfessorX
ProfessorX vouched for Cpt.America
Cpt.Britian vouched for Cpt.America

I think I was missing one more. MoonKnight vouched for either ProfessorX or Sinister, I would have to go back and look. I believe MoonKnight was saying he trusted ProfessorX based on Sinister's vouching for him