Obama versus McCain (versus the rest)

[panerd]

Bill Mahar tonight (paraphrasing): Palin was the mayor of Wissilla, Alaska. That's who we want at a time in crisis, when she got the call at 3 in the morning it was because a moose had gotten into the trash can.

[JPhillips]

Good Lord, I know this is supposed to be a joke, but no damn wonder McCain brought in a new team of advisors.

“She’s going to learn national security at the foot of the master for the next four years, and most doctors think that he’ll be around at least that long,” said Charlie Black

edit: Although his new team may be just as bad. It sounds like Palin may have a deposition soon over the trooper firing and a report on the matter is scheduled to be released in early November.

[DaddyTorgo]

OMG JPhillips - that is WAYYYYYYYYYYYY too funny.

Honestly, I can't imagine why anyone would feel comfortable having her just one misfire of a 72 year-old heart away from being in charge of the most powerful and complicated nation in the world. She is so completely unqualified for that, it's shocking.

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

OMG JPhillips - that is WAYYYYYYYYYYYY too funny.

Honestly, I can't imagine why anyone would feel comfortable having her just one misfire of a 72 year-old heart away from being in charge of the most powerful and complicated nation in the world. She is so completely unqualified for that, it's shocking.

Funny...as has been pointed out, of the four, she has more executive experience than ANY of the other candidates.

I'm assuming since Obama made his European rock tour, you now consider him a qualified foreign affairs expert.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

OMG JPhillips - that is WAYYYYYYYYYYYY too funny.

Honestly, I can't imagine why anyone would feel comfortable having her just one misfire of a 72 year-old heart away from being in charge of the most powerful and complicated nation in the world. She is so completely unqualified for that, it's shocking.

So why is Obama more qualified than her? At least she has actually run a state. That is more than Obama can claim to have done. Heck, for that matter she has more experience running things than anyone else in the race.

[JPhillips]

This fetishization over executive experience is ridiculous. ARe you honestly trying to argue that Palin, because she was a Governor is more qualified than McCain, Obama and Biden? Can you honestly believe that being the Governor of a state that has a population smaller than Indianapolis carries more weight than the US Senate?

I don't really care what you think of Palin as I still don't think either VP really matters, but the idea that any sliver of executive experience is always better than a lifetime of legislative experience is crazy. Does her time as Mayor of Wasilla, where she ran things, outweigh 20 years in the Senate?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by panerd

Bill Mahar tonight (paraphrasing): Palin was the mayor of Wissilla, Alaska. That's who we want at a time in crisis, when she got the call at 3 in the morning it was because a moose had gotten into the trash can.

Which is a loftier decision than Obama has ever had to make.

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

This fetishization over executive experience is ridiculous. ARe you honestly trying to argue that Palin, because she was a Governor is more qualified than McCain, Obama and Biden? Can you honestly believe that being the Governor of a state that has a population smaller than Indianapolis carries more weight than the US Senate?

I don't really care what you think of Palin as I still don't think either VP really matters, but the idea that any sliver of executive experience is always better than a lifetime of legislative experience is crazy. Does her time as Mayor of Wasilla, where she ran things, outweigh 20 years in the Senate?

No, but I'm not discounting it either. Clinton was the governor of itty bitty Arkansas, and yet many of you consider him the greatest president ever. Obama has been in the national legislature for less than four years...and he has spent most of that time campaigning for the presidency. His resume of accomplishments is surprisingly bare. And unlike Obama, Palin won't be running for the top job.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Can you honestly believe that being the Governor of a state that has a population smaller than Indianapolis carries more weight than the US Senate? ... Does her time as Mayor of Wasilla, where she ran things, outweigh 20 years in the Senate?

It wasn't me originally on that point, but yes I'd say I believe that, at least in terms of having faced scenarios where executive decisions are required.

Congressional experience proves little to me beyond an ability to conduct a successful campaign for office. And as rare as agreements on political matters for us might be, I think you'll probably agree that winning an election & being capable in office really aren't guaranteed companions.

[Arles]

On the experience issue, I'd rather have a 2-year governor (with a proven record of accomplishments) ready to fill in for McCain than a 4-year US senator (who spent the last 2 years campaigning) stepping into the job on day 1 regardless.

Plus, it would be nice to have someone in the executive branch that actually understands the ANWAR issue and knows the local variables involved. Maybe she can help explain to Obama how you need to drill for oil during the process to get all that "clean natural gas" from Alaska that Barack's been touting for so long.

[SFL Cat]

dola -- on top of that, Palin has actually had a career outside of politics, something I don't think any of the other candidates can claim, unless you want to count McCain's military service.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

haha, someone already registered vpilf.com

Huh, I didn't even think of the domain registration angle (I did arrive at the same basic term myself pretty soon after the announcement though...hey wait, DC, are you responsible for this??).

[yacovfb]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

dola -- on top of that, Palin has actually had a career outside of politics, something I don't think any of the other candidates can claim, unless you want to count McCain's military service.

If you count McCain's military service then you've got to count Obama's time as a community organizer and a lecturer (not sure if he was actually a professor or not).

[DaddyTorgo]

McCain was the Repblican nominee clear back in April - he has had 6 months to chose a running mate, and this is his first decision?
He blew it, and I mean, he blew it big time.

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm getting too worked up in this thread and I can see myself saying something i'll regret soon, so i'm going to bow out now, at least for a while.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

No, but I'm not discounting it either. Clinton was the governor of itty bitty Arkansas, and yet many of you consider him the greatest president ever. Obama has been in the national legislature for less than four years...and he has spent most of that time campaigning for the presidency. His resume of accomplishments is surprisingly bare. And unlike Obama, Palin won't be running for the top job.

I've said repeatedly that I think judgment is far more important than experience. I certainly don't consider Clinton the best president, but I do think he did a good job, however, I wouldn't credit much if any of that to being governor of Arkansas.

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

It wasn't me originally on that point, but yes I'd say I believe that, at least in terms of having faced scenarios where executive decisions are required.

Congressional experience proves little to me beyond an ability to conduct a successful campaign for office. And as rare as agreements on political matters for us might be, I think you'll probably agree that winning an election & being capable in office really aren't guaranteed companions.

If it's just "executive decisions" I think a Senator has to make those as well, at least in terms of running the small business that is a Senate staff.

As much as we disagree, at least you're honest enough to stand for what you think no matter what.

btw- You should be happy to hear that some gays in Alaska are claiming Palin is a bigot!

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

dola -- on top of that, Palin has actually had a career outside of politics, something I don't think any of the other candidates can claim, unless you want to count McCain's military service.

Not true. Obama was a lawyer and law professor. McCain worked for his father-in-law's beer distributorship. Biden was a lawyer.

[SFL Cat]

Woops.

Obama Campaign Attacks, And Backtracks, on Palin

[Arles]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

i'm getting too worked up in this thread and I can see myself saying something i'll regret soon, so i'm going to bow out now, at least for a while.

If McCain blew it, you should be pleased as Obama is on the fast track to the presidency. I don't see where all the anger comes from.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

dola -- on top of that, Palin has actually had a career outside of politics, something I don't think any of the other candidates can claim, unless you want to count McCain's military service.

I've been thinking about this. What exactly are the needed qualifications for president these days? Has it been narrowed down to active politicians with law degrees? Ex-military? Business? If foreign policy is such a concern, how would any Governor (Clinton? W? Reagan? Carter?) be considered to have enough experience there? If that's not the worry with "inexperience", what is?


Also, has the office of president gotten a little too powerful or out of balance with the other two branches of government? In theory, if a president that is as off-the-mark as W is thought to be comes along, shouldn't the other branches be able to more or less bitch-slap him back into line (of course, it's much easier for them to not do anything, but to point fingers when things go wrong and take credit anyway when things go right)?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

He blew it, and I mean, he blew it big time.

FWIW (which ain't much since I only get one vote) my take after 12 hours or so is about the same. I don't think it's a huge mistake, but I think it's a mistake.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

McCain was the Repblican nominee clear back in April - he has had 6 months to chose a running mate, and this is his first decision?
He blew it, and I mean, he blew it big time.

I can't help but think that maybe he's hoping she blows "it" big time...

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Arles

If McCain blew it, you should be pleased as Obama is on the fast track to the presidency. I don't see where all the anger comes from.

I don't have anger...just saying that I can see myself sliding towards saying something i'd regret, or getting too worked up by people taking what I said and twisting it because I don't have the time or the inclination to monitor this thread to the extent some others do.

idk...

[DaddyTorgo]

from a blogger in Wisalia

Republican bloggers are already gushing about how she has ‘more executive experience’ than Obama does! Above is a picture of lovely downtown Wasilla, for those of you unfamiliar with the area. Behind the Mug-Shot Saloon (the first bar I visited when I moved to Alaska long ago) is a little strip mall. There are street signs in Wasilla with bullet holes in them. Wasilla has a population of about 5500 people, and 1979 occupied housing units. This is where your potential Vice President was two short years ago. Can you imagine her negotiating a nuclear non-proliferation treaty? Discussing foreign policy? Understanding non-Alaskan issues? Frankly, I don’t even know if she’s ever been out of the country.

hxxp://mudflats.wordpress.com/2008/08/29/what-is-mccain-thinking-one-alaskans-perspective/

and from the next post later on the blog

Alaska State Senate President Lyda Green (R): “She’s not prepared to be governor. How can she be prepared to be vice president or president? Look at what she’s done to this state. What would she do to the nation?” (Green is from Palin’s home town of Wasilla.)
Alaska House Speaker John Harris (R): “She’s old enough. She’s a U.S. citizen.”
Alaska Democratic Party Chair Patti Higgins: “In this very competitive election for them to go pick somebody who is … under a cloud of suspicion, who is under investigation for abuse of power. It just sounds like a pretty slow start to me. We need a vice president who can step in if, God forbid, something happened to John McCain. I don’t think she’s someone who is ready for that 3 a.m. phone call.”
Randy Ruedrich, Alaska Republican Party Chair: Not giving interviews.
Alaska Attorney General Talis Colberg: “a mixed set of emotions, kind of an odd sense of Alaska nationalism or pride. This is like watching a moon landing or something. It’s just something you don’t expect to see very often. It’s wonderful. It was an emotional thing to see the governor walk out with her family and I say, wow, I work for her.”
McHugh Pierre, Alaska Republican Party Spokesman: “She brings her voice of new energy and change. And she knows Alaska.”
Indicted Alaska Sr. Senator Ted Stevens (R): “it’s a great day for the nation and Alaskans.”
Andrew Halcro, local blogger who ran against Palin for governor: “This shocking choice says more about McCain’s desperation than it does about Palin’s qualifications”.
and my favorite…
Alaska State Representative Mike Doogan (D): “Either Sarah Palin has talents and skills we were not aware of”, or “John McCain fell down and hit his head”. He also called the prospect of Palin potentially needing to take over as President”pretty scary.”

[JPhillips]

I wondered if her attacks on fellow Alaskan Republicans might come back to bite her a bit. Stevens seems pretty effusive, though, so she'll be fine. If Don Young or Murkowski has something bad to say it will be all over the media.

I do love this:

Alaska House Speaker John Harris (R): “She’s old enough. She’s a U.S. citizen.”

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

I've been thinking about this. What exactly are the needed qualifications for president these days? Has it been narrowed down to active politicians with law degrees? Ex-military? Business? If foreign policy is such a concern, how would any Governor (Clinton? W? Reagan? Carter?) be considered to have enough experience there? If that's not the worry with "inexperience", what is?

As far as experience, I'm usually good with anyone who has NOT been a career politician from day 1.

Also, has the office of president gotten a little too powerful or out of balance with the other two branches of government? In theory, if a president that is as off-the-mark as W is thought to be comes along, shouldn't the other branches be able to more or less bitch-slap him back into line (of course, it's much easier for them to not do anything, but to point fingers when things go wrong and take credit anyway when things go right)?

Actually, the branch that has gotten completely out of control IMO is the judiciary.

[Arles]

The only people that dislike Palin more than the Alaskan democratic machine is the Alaskan republican machine. But, that's what happen when you actively go after and expose corruption in both parties. Of course, that's also why she has between 60 and 85% approval in the state.

Again, if Obama wants to paint critical comments from a very corrupt state republican party as a knock on Palin, have at it. We'll see what the people think when it's all said and done.

[BillyMadison]

Frankly, I don’t even know if she’s ever been out of the country.

Funny, she's been to Iraq the same amount of times Obama has. And she was in Germany recently, and she actually, you know, decided not to skip the stop to visit injured US Troops.

[SFL Cat]

This is where your potential Vice President was two short years ago. Can you imagine her negotiating a nuclear non-proliferation treaty? Discussing foreign policy? Understanding non-Alaskan issues?

Yes, I feel soooo much more confident seeing Osama bin Bama negotiating that treaty.

Frankly, I don’t even know if she’s ever been out of the country.

Apparently, she has.

[SnowMan]

I'm a political idiot, but I will toss in that since Palin took over, she's been VERY popular up here on the anti-corruption stuff, and "take back the government" type of platform. I can see how this would appeal to a lot of Americans.

[yacovfb]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

Yes, I feel soooo much more confident seeing Osama bin Bama negotiating that treaty.

Racist much?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

Yes, I feel soooo much more confident seeing Osama bin Bama negotiating that treaty.

with a comment like that you've basically shown your true colors and indicated that it's fruitless to attempt to engage you in any type of adult conversation.

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by yacovfb

Racist much?

Sexist much? See, I can do it too.

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

with a comment like that you've basically shown your true colors and indicated that it's fruitless to attempt to engage you in any type of adult conversation.

I usually don't attempt to engage in adult discussions here...it's generally pointless, especially in regards to politics.

[yacovfb]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

Sexist much? See, I can do it too.

And I made a sexist comment when exactly?

To quote Anchorman...
"Take it easy, Champ. Why don't you sit this next one out, stop talking for a while."

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

Sexist much? See, I can do it too.

last time I respond to something you post -- nobody is attacking Palin because she is a woman. They're attacking her on actual issues and positions and behavior, not her plumbing. Unlike your bigoted bullshit.

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

last time I respond to something you post -- nobody is attacking Palin because she is a woman. They're attacking her on actual issues and positions and behavior, not her plumbing. Unlike your bigoted bullshit.

Watch the blood pressure there Daddy-o.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

I usually don't attempt to engage in adult discussions here...it's generally pointless, especially in regards to politics.

so you're trolling then? good to know

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

last time I respond to something you post -- nobody is attacking Palin because she is a woman. They're attacking her on actual issues and positions and behavior, not her plumbing. Unlike your bigoted bullshit.

Bigoted bullshit...because I think Obama is an empty suit, that makes me a bigot? Nice! Put someone like Colin Powell in there to negotiate that treaty, I feel completely different about things.

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by yacovfb

And I made a sexist comment when exactly?

To quote Anchorman...
"Take it easy, Champ. Why don't you sit this next one out, stop talking for a while."

Well, you started the name calling...just thought I'd return the favor.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

Bigoted bullshit...because I think Obama is an empty suit, that makes me a bigot? Nice! Put someone like Colin Powell in there to negotiate that treaty, I feel completely different about things.

no - bigoted because you intentionally messed up his name to try to make it more muslim-sounding to play on that fear and heighten it.

FWIW - I'd feel better with Biden negotiating the treaty than I would with Obama, and I suspect that in Foreign Policy that Biden will have a substantial role to play.

[yacovfb]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

Well, you started the name calling...just thought I'd return the favor.

Considering your attempt to paint Obama as the terrorist who attacked us on 9/11, I'd say that my "name calling" is minor compared to what you did.

edit: I'm done responding, shouldn't have done so in the first place. Don't want to double my post count over this

[SFL Cat]

Yes...I'm sorry my playful turn with "the One's" name frightened you so badly.

And I'm sure you or no one of your persuasion here has ever referred to Bush as "the Chimp" on these boards either.

[Arles]

Some info for those of you wondering who this blogger cited in Alaska politics:

Alaska State Senate President Lyda Green (R) - decided not to run for re-election after Palin's FBI Veco probe exposed her involvement:
“She’s not prepared to be governor. How can she be prepared to be vice president or president? Look at what she’s done to this state. What would she do to the nation?” (Green is from Palin’s home town of Wasilla.)

Alaska House Speaker John Harris (R) - violated house ethics laws and presided over the state congress during the Veco bribery scandal:
“She’s old enough. She’s a U.S. citizen.”

Alaska Democratic Party Chair Patti Higgins - opposing party chair who witnessed Palin beat her close friend in the gov election and expose democrat involvement in the scandal:
“In this very competitive election for them to go pick somebody who is … under a cloud of suspicion, who is under investigation for abuse of power. It just sounds like a pretty slow start to me. We need a vice president who can step in if, God forbid, something happened to John McCain. I don’t think she’s someone who is ready for that 3 a.m. phone call.”

Andrew Halcro - destroyed by Palin in the gov election: “This shocking choice says more about McCain’s desperation than it does about Palin’s qualifications”.

and my favorite…
Alaska State Representative Mike Doogan - opposing party rep who had to explain numerous "boondoggle" lunches with oil industry lobbyists as part of Palin's support for Veco investigation
: “Either Sarah Palin has talents and skills we were not aware of”, or “John McCain fell down and hit his head”. He also called the prospect of Palin potentially needing to take over as President”pretty scary.”

Quite an unbiased group there. Next thing you know, we'll see some negative comments from senate republicans on Obama.

[molson]

Arles is dominating this thread

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by molson

Arles is dominating this thread

Hadn't noticed...too occupied being a racist.

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

last time I respond to something you post -- nobody is attacking Palin because she is a woman. They're attacking her on actual issues and positions and behavior, not her plumbing. Unlike your bigoted bullshit.

Actually, all the attacks seem to be centered on her lack of experience when in reality her and Obama have about equal amount of experience, just in different areas. If Obama is good enough on shaky (at best) experience, why isn't Palin?
I'd say some of it is over the fact that she's a woman, and some people have it set in their minds that no woman could be ready for the job.

I personally don't have a problem with either in the experience department, because ultimately anyone who becomes president ends up having so many advisors that they'll be informed enough to the point that any bad decisions will be piss poor judgement or foresight, not a lack of experience.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I wondered if her attacks on fellow Alaskan Republicans might come back to bite her a bit. Stevens seems pretty effusive, though, so she'll be fine. If Don Young

You mean the Don Young who was connected to both the Abramoff debacle (adn.com | alaska : Young linked to Abramoff's tribal clients) and one of the main culprits in the Veco scandal? (adn.com | Alaska political investigations : Paper reports Young's Veco ties investigated in federal probe)

or Murkowski

You mean the Frank Murkowski who was a complete disaster as governor, created a ton of wasteful spending and left office with a whopping 14% approval rating because of scandals/spending?

has something bad to say it will be all over the media.

About the only thing that would hurt Palin from those two winners would be a complete endorsement. Why don't we just ask Jack Ryan his opinion of Obama while we're at it.

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by Deattribution

I'd say some of it is over the fact that she's a woman, and some people have it set in their minds that no woman could be ready for the job.

I think history has shown that there are women up-to-the-challenge of leading a nation.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by yacovfb

Racist much?

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

with a comment like that you've basically shown your true colors and indicated that it's fruitless to attempt to engage you in any type of adult conversation.

Yeah, I agree. Geez I can actually see his white hood all the way from Colorado.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Yeah, I agree. Geez I can actually see his white hood all the way from Colorado.

Well played sir.

LOL for real.