NFL Conference Championship Games Discussion

[Thomkal]

now that's the defense I expected from the Eagles. Cards O-Line has gotta stay tough

[Eaglesfan27]

He kicked it out of bounds at the Cards 2 yard line.

[Comey]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

This game isn't over yet. But, I do agree with your earlier posts. The no-call on the Avant play where there was clear PI was huge and I agree with your post that the Cards deserve all of the credit for a great 1st half.

Oh yeah, that Akers kick really hurts.

I am attempting the "reverse psychology" method. I believe you should know that well. ; )

So far, I think it's working. Because, you know, I have a direct effect on this game.

[MrDNA]

Where did this Eagles passrush come from? We've got a game again, fellas!

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by BrianD

I hard that too on the halftime show. I would agree that the ball clearly landed in bounds, but I disagree that it clearly didn't hit the Eagle after the bounce. The only thing an allowed Cardinal challenge would have done in the case was change it from Eagles ball on the 26 to Eagles ball on the 40 after a kickoff out of bounds penalty.

This is why every play needs to be revieable and correctable by replay.

The replay shown on national TV was obvious in that the ball never itself went OoB and the playing that perhaps touched it was NOT out of bounds when it may have done so, that ball was live, and the replay shows that clearly and it also shows clearly the cardinals recovering the ball.

This was a VERY simple play that the ref's blew and got totally wrong.

Replay of the play could have easily corrected this and gotten the call right.

Its just a matter of removing the loophole of "not reviewable"


and Sak, no one has complained about the time it takes to get it right, at least not in this thread that I've seen, so I'm not sure why you're bringing that into the equation. This is the playoffs, they need to get it right.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Comey

I am attempting the "reverse psychology" method. I believe you should know that well. ; )

So far, I think it's working. Because, you know, I have a direct effect on this game.

Ahh, in that case carry on, please.

[Eaglesfan27]

McNabb is looking more relaxed and accurate this drive.

[JW]

That blown call has soured me on the game. RendeR has it right. Either way, it should have been Cardinals' ball. And I don't really care for either of these teams, but now I am 100% behind the Cards.

[Eaglesfan27]

YES!!!! McNabb to Celek!!

[Thomkal]

sigh Cards apparantly thought the game was over at halftime

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by RendeR

This is why every play needs to be revieable and correctable by replay.

The replay shown on national TV was obvious in that the ball never itself went OoB and the playing that perhaps touched it was NOT out of bounds when it may have done so, that ball was live, and the replay shows that clearly and it also shows clearly the cardinals recovering the ball.

This was a VERY simple play that the ref's blew and got totally wrong.

It looked to me that the ball did contact the Philadelphia player's hip while he was out of bounds. I am not sure they could've overturned the call.

[Eaglesfan27]

David Akers is killing the Eagles now.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

sigh Cards apparantly thought the game was over at halftime

So did you, in fairness.

[Izulde]

Impressive. We've got ourselves a game now.

[Thomkal]

wow a missed xp

[Comey]

Tough to kick the laces.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

So did you, in fairness.

Nope, all I said was that they were 30 mins away from the Superbowl, not that it was a done deal., I'm a Cardinal fan afterall, I've seen them pull defeat from victory too many times to count

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

It looked to me that the ball did contact the Philadelphia player's hip while he was out of bounds. I am not sure they could've overturned the call.

The ball was in free fall after passing his fingertips before his foot ever went out of bounds, it never came near his body itself. The only thing that could have physically touched the ball was his fingertips.

Not sure how anyone sees anything beyond that from those two angles.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by RendeR

This is why every play needs to be revieable and correctable by replay.

The replay shown on national TV was obvious in that the ball never itself went OoB and the playing that perhaps touched it was NOT out of bounds when it may have done so, that ball was live, and the replay shows that clearly and it also shows clearly the cardinals recovering the ball.

This was a VERY simple play that the ref's blew and got totally wrong.

Replay of the play could have easily corrected this and gotten the call right.

Its just a matter of removing the loophole of "not reviewable"


and Sak, no one has complained about the time it takes to get it right, at least not in this thread that I've seen, so I'm not sure why you're bringing that into the equation. This is the playoffs, they need to get it right.

I think this is an overstatement. Both angles of the ball after the bounce was inconclusive at best. I thought it touched the Eagle while he was out of bounds, but I could see arguments both ways. Had the review been allowed, it had at least a fair chance of standing. It may even have been confirmed.

Again though, what is the alternative? Don't blow the ball dead when you believe it is dead? Allow a review after a play has been blown dead? Create a rule that if the ball has been blown dead, any action that couldn't be stopped immediately after the whistle can still be called part of the play? You create problems any way you choose.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Nope, all I said was that they were 30 mins away from the Superbowl, not that it was a done deal., I'm a Cardinal fan afterall, I've seen them pull defeat from victory too many times to count

Which is why you of all people should have known better than to invoke the Super Bowl before they had actually cemented their trip. Heck, you also said a touchdown on one of their early 3rdQ drives would seal it, and then they didn't score.

This one is totally your fault if they lose.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by RendeR

The ball was in free fall after passing his fingertips before his foot ever went out of bounds, it never came near his body itself. The only thing that could have physically touched the ball was his fingertips.

Not sure how anyone sees anything beyond that from those two angles.

It was after the bounce. The ball looked to miss his fingers, land in bounds, and bounce up into his hip/arm. I thought the rotation of the ball changed after that possible touch which is why I thought it hit him.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

He kicked it out of bounds at the Cards 2 yard line.

According to that it was out at the Philly 2.
A -33 yard kick.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Which is why you of all people should have known better than to invoke the Super Bowl before they had actually cemented their trip. Heck, you also said a touchdown on one of their early 3rdQ drives would seal it, and then they didn't score.

This one is totally your fault if they lose.

Nah, blame Jas_lov for calling the game. He did the same thing to Seattle against the Packers last year.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by BrianD

I think this is an overstatement. Both angles of the ball after the bounce was inconclusive at best. I thought it touched the Eagle while he was out of bounds, but I could see arguments both ways. Had the review been allowed, it had at least a fair chance of standing. It may even have been confirmed.

Again though, what is the alternative? Don't blow the ball dead when you believe it is dead? Allow a review after a play has been blown dead? Create a rule that if the ball has been blown dead, any action that couldn't be stopped immediately after the whistle can still be called part of the play? You create problems any way you choose.

How does it create any problems? They blew the call dead, fine, now get on the booth and look at what actually happened, figure out what SHOULD have been called and put the ball in the hands of the team it should belong to, very simple really, they do it all the time on fumbles and receptions and interceptions. Why should a kickoff be any different?

I watched the DVR of the braodcast a few times now, I don't see from either angle how you can think it touched anything when his foot was out of bounds, as his foot comes down the ball is almost on the ground and about to bounce back towards the field. *shrug* Either way it should have been reviewed at the least, wether they overturned it or not.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by RendeR

How does it create any problems? They blew the call dead, fine, now get on the booth and look at what actually happened, figure out what SHOULD have been called and put the ball in the hands of the team it should belong to, very simple really, they do it all the time on fumbles and receptions and interceptions. Why should a kickoff be any different?

What do you think should have been called? Action after the whistle? You don't see that creating problems?

I watched the DVR of the braodcast a few times now, I don't see from either angle how you can think it touched anything when his foot was out of bounds, as his foot comes down the ball is almost on the ground and about to bounce back towards the field. *shrug* Either way it should have been reviewed at the least, wether they overturned it or not.

Try watching past what the ball was "about" to do and see what it actually did.

[RendeR]

Granted I am taking advantage of my ability bto re-watch the replays, so perhaps thats something not everyone in the discussion has access too atm.

[Philliesfan980]

Ugh, next year Eagles, fly out on a Thursday morning rather than Friday night. Jeff - I know you're really cheap and all, but spring for the hotel rooms for an extra few nights.

[Eaglesfan27]

I love that 4th quarter Post Season stat they just showed for McNabb for all of those haters who want to say he is a choke artist. Now, time for him to continue that great trend of 4th quarter play this post season.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by BrianD

What do you think should have been called? Action after the whistle? You don't see that creating problems?

The whistle was being blown AS the ball was recovered by the cardinals. just because they blew it dead doesn't mean they can't see what happened at the same time. good god why is that so hard to see?

Originally Posted by BrianD

Try watching past what the ball was "about" to do and see what it actually did.

Ok this is just an asshole remark, fuck you too, stick to the discussion. The ball bounced back into play well past the player in question, the only thing that could have touched the ball at all was his fingertips.

[kingfc22]

Oh my!

[larrymcg421]

Holy shit!

[Eaglesfan27]

DeSean Jackson!!!!

[Comey]

OH MY GOD

[Jas_lov]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Nah, blame Jas_lov for calling the game. He did the same thing to Seattle against the Packers last year.

LOL, I've gone and done it again. And now Philly has the lead! Sorry Cardinals fans.

[Thomkal]

unfuckingbelievable

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Granted I am taking advantage of my ability bto re-watch the replays, so perhaps thats something not everyone in the discussion has access too atm.

Just so you don't think I'm ducking out on the conversation after making one comment, BrianD is saying pretty much exactly everything I would say regarding that kickoff play.

The ball bounced back toward the field and may have hit the Philadelphia player's leg along the way. The trajectory of the ball appeared the change as it got up near the player's hip. It was a very close play, and I can't say for sure whether it touched him or not, but I don't think they would've overturned it.

[Lathum]

jesus

[Noop]

I am impressed by Philly.

[Chief Rum]

Man, is this game in Arizona? The cheers seem huge for Philly.

[ISiddiqui]

The wheels on the bus for Arizona done fell off

[MrDNA]

Oh, Cards fans, I am so sorry. It's not over yet.

[Noop]

RendeR do you ever get off your high horse?

[RendeR]

Just to be perfectly clear here, this is what my review of the replays shows me:

Ball comes down on the kickoff, eagles player stretches his arm out to the ball, he may or may not touch it with his fingers at this point. Player continues out of bounds. The ball is NOT contacting him in either angle as he goes out of bounds. The ball bounces IN bounds and goes towards the center of the field where a cardinal player falls on it.

Thats the whole play. Even if you decide he touches it with his hands he is still in bounds at the time, so the ball is still live.


The refs were wrong, blew the whistle and killed the play.

Replay could have fixed it. Thats all I'm saying. based on whats on the tape it SHOULD have been Cardinals ball somewhere near the 25-26 yard line.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Man, is this game in Arizona? The cheers seem huge for Philly.

Arizona is Snowbird Country.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Just to be perfectly clear here, this is what my review of the replays shows me:

Ball comes down on the kickoff, eagles player stretches his arm out to the ball, he may or may not touch it with his fingers at this point. Player continues out of bounds. The ball is NOT contacting him in either angle as he goes out of bounds. The ball bounces IN bounds and goes towards the center of the field where a cardinal player falls on it.

It's the bolded part that I disagree with.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Man, is this game in Arizona? The cheers seem huge for Philly.

Those weren't cheers.

[Eaglesfan27]

Except that maybe the Eagles dive on the ball if a whistle hadn't blown. You can't go and change it as Quiksand rightly pointed out because guys have to stop playing once the whistle blows.

[Lathum]

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

It's the bolded part that I disagree with.

From the above/midfield camera angle you can see space all around the ball after it passes his hand and bounces back up, no contact there, at that point the player is off the field and the ball is on it, how can he be touching it?

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by RendeR

The whistle was being blown AS the ball was recovered by the cardinals. just because they blew it dead doesn't mean they can't see what happened at the same time. good god why is that so hard to see?

Because when you see the ball go out of bounds (or think you see it), your mechanics as a ref change. You go for your whistle and either run to mark the spot or potentially throw the bag.

In a situation like this, do you want the refs to decide what action in simultaneous with the whistle and what is after the whistle? The old referee maxim is that the whistle doesn't kill the play, the action kills the play and the whistle just announces that the play is dead.

Ok this is just an asshole remark, fuck you too, stick to the discussion. The ball bounced back into play well past the player in question, the only thing that could have touched the ball at all was his fingertips.

You are the one who talked about what the ball was clearly about to do. While you are going through and rewatching your DVR replays, listen to the commentary. Even the announcers talked about it looking like the ball hit his forearm after the bounce. You are allowed to have your opinion on what you saw, but I don't believe you can dismiss the possibility that you are wrong. Watch the ball and watch the rotation of the ball. You may be right in your view, but it was questionable enough to not allow certainty.