November 2008 Console Sales Figures (featuring broken records)

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

This is only true these days if you buy a used launch model. From all reports out there, starting with the Falcon design, the failure rates of the 360 have fallen dramatically, and are no better or worse than the failure rates for the PS3 or Wii.

The Wii and PS3 failure rates are between .2 and .3%, which is extremely good for an electronics product. Even the Falcon model still has a failure rate well in excess of that number. They've done a pretty good job of compiling numbers over in the RROD NeoGaf thread. Interestingly enough, the reduction in failure from the 30% pre-Falcon to sub 10% post-Falcon has been offset by the fact that Microsoft is replacing the pre-Falcon models with the Xenon which was returned in record number and sending them out as replacements. The return rates of the refurbished units are off the charts.

It's silly to even engage in this discussion at this point. Anyone who tries to say that the 360 failure rate is in the same ballpark as the other two systems is merely whistling through the graveyard. The evidence is overwhelmingly against the 360 on that front.

[hukarez]

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

So true. I still have very few friends who have/play a PS3, but most of my friends who I game with have a 360. Even if I get a PS3 tomorrow, I'm sure I'll be buying most of my sports games on the 360 to play with guys from here in MP leagues/online games.

My brother owns both a PS3 and 360. When his 360 went tits up a few weeks ago and wasn't covered under warranty (wasn't an RROD), he went out and bought another one to replace it, which pretty much went against every fiber in his being because he was so angry at MS for their crappy hardware. His reason? All of his friends play online with their 360's, and the PS3 just can't fill that void. I suspect this is true of most gamers at this point.

[Mustang]

Such compelling arguments they bring up. I had not thought about the cons of having to plug it into the TV.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

The Wii and PS3 failure rates are between .2 and .3%

I think you are going to find this isn't true by this time next year. It took time for the RROD data to come out and there is enough anecdotal evidence to suggest that both the PS3 and Wii rates of failure are much higher than has been reported.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I think you are going to find this isn't true by this time next year. It took time for the RROD data to come out and there is enough anecdotal evidence to suggest that both the PS3 and Wii rates of failure are much higher than has been reported.

Interesting. Any articles or even threads on message boards confirming this anecdotal evidence? My feet would be held to the fire in this thread for that kind of a statement if I didn't back it up.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Interesting. Any articles or even threads on message boards confirming this anecdotal evidence? My feet would be held to the fire in this thread for that kind of a statement if I didn't back it up.

Sure, go to OS or any of the major gaming boards and look at the various threads about people's PS3's dying. There are many threads on gaming boards about it. There was also a recent thread on Gamespot where an editor wrote about his PS3 dying. There have been quite a few people here who have reported having their PS3's already having to be sent in for repairs as well.

[Voo]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Interesting. Any articles or even threads on message boards confirming this anecdotal evidence? My feet would be held to the fire in this thread for that kind of a statement if I didn't back it up.

In the smallest of sample sizes I have sent back 1 of both systems for repairs.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Sure, go to OS or any of the major gaming boards and look at the various threads about people's PS3's dying. There are many threads on gaming boards about it. There was also a recent thread on Gamespot where an editor wrote about his PS3 dying. There have been quite a few people here who have reported having their PS3's already having to be sent in for repairs as well.

Link would be great. Thanks.

[MJ4H]

I hear very few stories about people's Wiis needing repair, and I hang out at a lot of Wii-centric places.

[SackAttack]

My PS3 turned on one morning to report that it had to "rebuild the hard drive," and spent the next day and a half so doing. Or attempting. That's the only issue I've seen reported with any regularity.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

I hear very few stories about people's Wiis needing repair, and I hang out at a lot of Wii-centric places.

I've read much less than the PS3. I just hear about a fair number of disc read errors (I've had several myself, particularly with Smash Brothers.)

MBBF, I'll get you some links after I'm done work and at home. Of course, I'm sure you'll discount them

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by Jon

Here's a quick question that I'm certain has been asked hundreds of times:
after years of both consoles being out, which system is better--xbox 360 or PS3? Is the red ring of death a killer for most 360s? I may upgrade my system and am wondering which one to get.

I bought a 360 within 6 months after it came out, and still have the same one. I would say I got somewhat lucky there just from what others always say. Still, always have loved the system. (I did need to have the dvd drive replaced earlier this year)

Just got a PS3, uh...er, a couple months ago now I guess. Anyways, I love it. I think it's the complete package with built in wireless internet connection, BR, my favorite controller, free Playstation Network.

With that said, I echo what others say. If you want online play with people you know then 360 is probably the way to go. I don't know people and don't care about who I play with (yes, I fondle strangers), so playing on PSN is just fine for me and I am having a blast playing COD: World at War on there when I can. I have never even hooked up my 360 online, but I am sure it is better for that as everyone says.

PS3 best system to me, just not enough people with one to win the MP battle.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I've read much less than the PS3. I just hear about a fair number of disc read errors (I've had several myself, particularly with Smash Brothers.)

MBBF, I'll get you some links after I'm done work and at home. Of course, I'm sure you'll discount them

Ah, a fair point. I remember when Brawl was released there was a mini-flurry of people reporting their machines couldn't read the disc because it was in a new kind of format that required the lens to be cleaner or something like that. Don't remember the exact reason, but there was something like that now that you mention it.

[Eaglesfan27]

My last patient is a no show, so I just did a quick search on OS. Here is a thread in which much more than 0.3% of the respondents note a problem (specifically the Blu Ray Drive dies.) The thread quickly veers off topic, but it is useful info as it points out that users are getting charged by Sony if it isn't within the 1 year warranty or they haven't purchased the extended warranty. There are multiple similar threads on OS and other places that can easily be found.

Anyone buying any of these consoles (except maybe the Wii) should invest in an extended warranty. Give it another year and I'm willing to bet money that the PS3 failure rate will be much higher than what was initially reported:




Operation Sports Forums

[Fidatelo]

I disagree with ever purchasing an extended warranty on any electronics. The 360 is the only product I would even consider it on, and even then, I'd take my chances. Extended warranties are a great way to throw away your money.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

My last patient is a no show, so I just did a quick search on OS. Here is a thread in which much more than 0.3% of the respondents note a problem (specifically the Blu Ray Drive dies.) The thread quickly veers off topic, but it is useful info as it points out that users are getting charged by Sony if it isn't within the 1 year warranty or they haven't purchased the extended warranty. There are multiple similar threads on OS and other places that can easily be found.

Anyone buying any of these consoles (except maybe the Wii) should invest in an extended warranty. Give it another year and I'm willing to bet money that the PS3 failure rate will be much higher than what was initially reported:




Operation Sports Forums

I posted something about my experiences dealing with Sony in another thread, but my PS3 died about a month or so ago and I when I looked at the Playstation forums for info on the problem there was certainly quite a few with the exact same problem I was experiencing (PS3 wasn't reading any disks).

Their customer support was absolutely horrible as well.

Microsoft and Nintendo will usually do their repairs without a receipt (at least from what I read on their forums). Sony will not; not under any circumstances I tried to work around it because after a move I couldn't find the receipt and the manufacture date was less than a year from when I was calling them about it breaking (seemed pretty simple to me). The person I spoke told me that sounded reasonable and that they would push the issue up the chain and for me to call back to check on the status of my issue. I call back a week and a half later and the customer service rep I spoke to then told me there weren't any notes on my account to show something was being worked on or that I had even called them. So my options were to either pay $150 to repair a PS3 that was under warranty or see if Best Buy could find my receipt in their records. Luckily, after speaking with a Best Buy manager they were able to find my receipt after about 10 minutes of searching purchases made with my bank card.

I also asked Sony why they wouldn't repair my PS3 under warranty even though the manufacture date was under a year and I was told that a receipt isn't actually to prove the date of purchase, its to prove that I didn't steal my PS3.

On the bright side, they are incredibly fast in getting your PS3 back to you. Took about a week for me to get it back from the day I sent it to them.

[Daimyo]

The RROD stuff was just starting to hit the radar 25 months into the 360's lifecycle and the shit didn't really hit the fan until a few months after that. The PS3 is just now in its 25th month.

I don't think anyone expects the PS3 to ultimately come near the 360's failure rate. At the same time, two years in is too early for the failure numbers to mean much.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Daimyo

The RROD stuff was just starting to hit the radar 25 months into the 360's lifecycle and the shit didn't really hit the fan until a few months after that. The PS3 is just now in its 25th month.

I don't think anyone expects the PS3 to ultimately come near the 360's failure rate. At the same time, two years in is too early for the failure numbers to mean much.

That is all I was saying.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

MBBF, I'll get you some links after I'm done work and at home. Of course, I'm sure you'll discount them

Of course I will, because your assertion is ludicrous. You produced a thread with barely 50 posts. The RROD thread on this board alone is larger than that. The RROD/DVD drive error thread on NeoGaf now is over 9500 posts and growing daily. There's little question that anyone even comparing the two situations got the gift of laughing gas from Santa yesterday. The 360 has been a QA nightmare.

It should be noted that I know you to be a very smart person. I get the distinct impression that you'd rather yank my chain in this thread more than anything else.

[SirFozzie]

Wow. Year Over Year Sales DOWN nearly 20% in November (any good games released Nov 07 compared to Nov 08?) and they expect that sales will either be flat or down this month.

Really looks like Sony gambled that people wanted their video game systems to be and do MORE, and with the recession in full swing, lost big time.

PS3 Sags in Battle Again Xbox 360, Wii - WSJ.com

If Sony doesn't close the gap with its rivals, it could risk making the PS3 an afterthought to game publishers, who focus most of their resources on the machines with the most users. At the end of September, the Wii had a wide lead with nearly 35 million units sold since its launch in 2006 compared with about 22 million Xbox 360 consoles and 17 million PS3 machines. Nintendo last month sold 2 million Wii machines in the U.S., while Microsoft sold 836,000 Xbox 360s and Sony sold 378,000 PS3s, according to NPD.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Wow. Year Over Year Sales DOWN nearly 20% in November (any good games released Nov 07 compared to Nov 08?) and they expect that sales will either be flat or down this month.

Really looks like Sony gambled that people wanted their video game systems to be and do MORE, and with the recession in full swing, lost big time.

PS3 Sags in Battle Again Xbox 360, Wii - WSJ.com

If Sony doesn't close the gap with its rivals, it could risk making the PS3 an afterthought to game publishers, who focus most of their resources on the machines with the most users. At the end of September, the Wii had a wide lead with nearly 35 million units sold since its launch in 2006 compared with about 22 million Xbox 360 consoles and 17 million PS3 machines. Nintendo last month sold 2 million Wii machines in the U.S., while Microsoft sold 836,000 Xbox 360s and Sony sold 378,000 PS3s, according to NPD.

There's a few silly statements in the article, but there's absolutely no new info. It's basically another author looking for page views by stirring the fanboy pot. Little has changed since the discussion in last month's thread. Until the PS3 price drops, there's really not much of a sales race to discuss.

The real news story that you should have been posting if you wanted to post something new was that Sony's Stringer made the statement that he didn't think they'd have a price drop until Summer 2009. Previous stories noted that a price drop was likely in Feb./March 2009. My guess is that they believe that sales in the interim won't improve enough with a price drop given the economy. I'm not sure I follow that logic as a couple of months won't make that big of a difference..

It is looking more and more likely that this generation may hang around longer than previous consoles given the global financial situation. Both Microsoft and Sony are suggesting that it doesn't make sense to release a console in 2010-2011. We may see the companies stick with the status quo, trying to increase the profitible end game of the console and wait to release a new console until the economic climate improves.

[Big Fo]

I don't think Sony will start losing a ton of games. The PS3 still sells well enough for it to get versions of 360 games.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

I don't think Sony will start losing a ton of games. The PS3 still sells well enough for it to get versions of 360 games.

It's the opposite regarding software. PS3 makes more profit for the major publishers than the 360 software despite the smaller number of units sold. Hardware is the real issue for Sony. It's just too damn expensive.

[Ryan S]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

It's the opposite regarding software. PS3 makes more profit for the major publishers than the 360 software despite the smaller number of units sold.

Why? Is Microsoft taking a huge fee for licensing?

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

There's a few silly statements in the article, but there's absolutely no new info. It's basically another author looking for page views by stirring the fanboy pot. Little has changed since the discussion in last month's thread. Until the PS3 price drops, there's really not much of a sales race to discuss.

Because, you know the Wall Street Journal needs the page views and has to resort to "Stirring the fanboy pot".

Do you even believe half the shit you write?

[Cringer]

I hope this generation of systems stick around longer then normal. Heck, it seems like it just started in many ways. I mean the PS2 still sells, there really is no point in moving too far ahead of what is needed.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Because, you know the Wall Street Journal needs the page views and has to resort to "Stirring the fanboy pot".

Do you even believe half the shit you write?

It happens whether you choose to accept that or not. The media isn't getting richer writing stories about a guy helping an old lady across the street. Articles on the console war get posted to message boards everywhere and help increase advertising revenue. They know that stories like this drive page views and revenue. Your assumption that the Wall Street Journal doesn't need page views is highly flawed and without much merit. If anything, they need them now more than ever.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Cringer

I hope this generation of systems stick around longer then normal. Heck, it seems like it just started in many ways. I mean the PS2 still sells, there really is no point in moving too far ahead of what is needed.

Agreed. I think a longer than normal generation would help the industry quite a bit. The HD graphics in this generation are a pretty good step forward and the developers are really starting to put out some good work at this point.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Ryan S

Why? Is Microsoft taking a huge fee for licensing?

There is a good-sized licensing fee involved, but I'm pretty sure that's not the whole reason for the difference in profits.

Interestingly enough, the PS2 is still raking in great profit numbers in companies like EA. The development costs are very low and the installed base is large. They can make a lot of money with very little effort on that console.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

There is a good-sized licensing fee involved, but I'm pretty sure that's not the whole reason for the difference in profits.

Interestingly enough, the PS2 is still raking in great profit numbers in companies like EA. The development costs are very low and the installed base is large. They can make a lot of money with very little effort on that console.

Do you have facts to back this up? I can't imagine that companies make more on PS3 sales than 360 sales when the 360 sells twice as many games.

[Daimyo]

If its true, it must be creative accounting. My guess is that because the 360 is used as the primary development platform the bulk of development costs get counted as expenses on the 360 side and only the relatively minor costs of porting get counted as expenses on the PS3 side.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Daimyo

If its true, it must be creative accounting. My guess is that because the 360 is used as the primary development platform the bulk of development costs get counted as expenses on the 360 side and only the relatively minor costs of porting get counted as expenses on the PS3 side.

That is exactly the reason and it has been posted in several articles which I'm sure MBBF has read.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Do you have facts to back this up? I can't imagine that companies make more on PS3 sales than 360 sales when the 360 sells twice as many games.

Easy thing to do is to look up some of the major multiplatform developers for any FY2009 quarter. EA is a prime example. Their biggest profit source on the 3 major consoles has been the PS3 thus far this year.

Here's a link for the investor's reports for EA....

http://investor.ea.com

Income numbers for Q1 of FY2008 and FY2009 (April-June) are below:

Q1 FY2009

PS3: 139mln
360: 81mln
PS2: 79mln
Wii: 57mln

Q1 FY 2008

PS2: 61mln
360: 47mln
Wii: 29mln
PS3: 13mln

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Easy thing to do is to look up some of the major multiplatform developers for any FY2009 quarter. EA is a prime example. Their biggest profit source on the 3 major consoles has been the PS3 thus far this year.

Here's a link for Q1 report for EA....

http://investor.ea.com/phoenix.zhtml...823&highlight=

Income numbers for Q1 of FY2008 and FY2009 (April-June) are below:

Anyone else getting a 404?

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Anyone else getting a 404?

SI

Just use the generic site name, which has links that should allow you to access the report.....

Electronic Arts Inc. - Investor Relations

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

That is exactly the reason and it has been posted in several articles which I'm sure MBBF has read.

Obviously I haven't or I would have posted that information. I know it's fun to poke the monkey in the cage, but would it be too much to ask that you provide the information first to counter my point rather than assuming that I'm ignoring articles that I haven't read? If I was the Oracle and knew all, I wouldn't bother engaging in conversations to learn more about different topics.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Obviously I haven't or I would have posted that information. I know it's fun to poke the monkey in the cage, but would it be too much to ask that you provide the information first to counter my point rather than assuming that I'm ignoring articles that I haven't read? If I was the Oracle and knew all, I wouldn't bother engaging in conversations to learn more about different topics.

I read these articles months ago and don't remember where to find a link to them and google is not helping me right now. However, it is why developers cancel the PS3 version of games that they are having difficulty getting ported such as the recent release of the Destroy all Aliens game, or whatever it is called. It is a fact that many companies develop on the 360 because it is easier to develop for (and easier to port to the PC) and then port to the PS3. Therefore, development costs are primarily attributed to the 360 version.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

If I was the Oracle and knew all, I wouldn't bother engaging in conversations to learn more about different topics.

No, but you do like to make smartass leading questions posts that you think you already know the answer to.

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I read these articles months ago and don't remember where to find a link to them and google is not helping me right now. However, it is why developers cancel the PS3 version of games that they are having difficulty getting ported such as the recent release of the Destroy all Aliens game, or whatever it is called. It is a fact that many companies develop on the 360 because it is easier to develop for (and easier to port to the PC) and then port to the PS3. Therefore, development costs are primarily attributed to the 360 version.

And as I've already mentioned in this thread, using the Destroy All Aliens game as an example is one of the worst arguments you can make. The reviews and feedback on that game for the 360 show that development group didn't know how to make a 360 game either and should have cancelled both versions of the game. It's a blessing that game wasn't released on the PS3 because it was a poor excuse for a game.

I'd also like to see those articles to determine why the accountant didn't spread those costs across all platforms on the multiplatform games if what you say is true. I'm trying to think back to my accounting classes to determine a situation where that would be adventageous to the company. May have to drag out the text books when I get home.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

No, but you do like to make smartass leading questions posts that you think you already know the answer to.

SI

Yes, well we all know that no one else engages in that practice on this board. Not a smart ass in this group outside of me.

[Kodos]

For the record, it's Destroy All Humans.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Kodos

For the record, it's Destroy All Humans.

You would know

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Kodos

For the record, it's Destroy All Humans.

Should have been named 'Destroy the Developers'.

[Kodos]

I'm just going to use Yellowstone to accomplish that goal.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Interesting read for those who haven't heard this story before. In summary, Microsoft worked with IBM to build the 360 chip based on the development being done on the Cell processor in the exact same building. It certainly follows previous Microsoft trends of taking the ideas or innovations of another product and building on that idea rather than recreating the wheel........

Playing the Fool - WSJ.com

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

It certainly follows previous Microsoft trends of taking the ideas or innovations of another product and building on that idea rather than recreating the wheel........

You make that sound like a bad thing.

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

It certainly follows previous Microsoft trends of taking the ideas or innovations of another product and building on that idea rather than recreating the wheel........

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by cartman

You make that sound like a bad thing.

On the contrary, it's worked extremely well for them from a profitability standpoint, especially in the PC market.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

Someone needs to make a line from the Gamecube controller to the original XBox controller as well. The 4 buttons are not configured the same but they are in the same place as are the two analog sticks and the control panel. So let's not pretend Microsoft doesn't do the exact same thing.

SI