College Football Week 9 Thread

[sooner333]

The Big Ten is behind the times. I'm sorry, but Penn State or Ohio State shouldn't be in the top ten. They can't handle the speed and either one will be ran up in the bowl games by teams that run no huddle and pass-based offenses. Ohio State already got ran up by USC and Penn State will get run up by the same or by Texas. The only solace will be if they get to play Alabama and it might be a good game...but there is no room for either of those teams in the main stage.

[Balldog]

Sounds like what everyone said in 02.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by sooner333

The Big Ten is behind the times. I'm sorry, but Penn State or Ohio State shouldn't be in the top ten. They can't handle the speed and either one will be ran up in the bowl games by teams that run no huddle and pass-based offenses. Ohio State already got ran up by USC and Penn State will get run up by the same or by Texas. The only solace will be if they get to play Alabama and it might be a good game...but there is no room for either of those teams in the main stage.

Considering you are a B12 homer, your opinion carries very little weight.

[rowech]

Looks like Penn State will be this year's Big10 fodder to whoever wins the title. The Big10 has not learned it's lesson from the Spanish Armada. Speed kills...slow and lumbering gets killed. That's what football has become and while it's okay to play that brand of football in the Big10 when everone else is doing it, they're slaughtered on the national stage.

I'd rather see Texas play any of the following than Penn State:

Bama, Georgia, Florida, USC, or even Oklahoma or Oklahoma State again.

Personally, I think Florida and Texas are the two best teams but Florida might have blown their chance.

[sooner333]

Originally Posted by Balldog

Sounds like what everyone said in 02.

And were right about in '06 and '07. Ohio State was a very good team and beat Miami in '02 and deserved the National Championship. Miami was a pretty awesome team that was almost at the same level as their team the year before, but I don't think they are doing the same things to utilize their athletes like the good teams do now (with the exception of Alabama). Florida runs and offense to give Tebow the best chance to succeed and give the ball to their athletes. Texas and Oklahoma speed up the game so they can spread the ball to their wideouts who I don't believe Penn State can cover as well.

I am a Big 12 homer, but what I have seen this year from teams is literally changing the game of college football. '06 was a down year for the conference and Oklahoma was lucky to have a chance to win it. This year is the opposite...completely stacked with a totally new look almost up and down the board with the no huddle.

[DeToxRox]

This is why I think RichRod is going to do big things at Michigan. He is recruiting speed and lots of it. It'll take some time, but Michigan has the potential to be Florida North with a lot less talented teams standing in their way en route to BCS Title Games.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

This is why I think RichRod is going to do big things at Michigan. He is recruiting speed and lots of it. It'll take some time, but Michigan has the potential to be Florida North with a lot less talented teams standing in their way en route to BCS Title Games.

Yup. But then again, it wouldn't surprise me that as early as next year you see more teams in the Big 10 changing philosophies to be more wide open.

[cartman]

Yeah, Illinois has showed the past couple of years that a team with less talent running the spread can beat the traditional Big 10 teams. When one of the big boys moves to it (Michigan) and has success, the others will follow suit.

[timmynausea]

Ohio State is already mixing some of it in with Pryor. Penn State already uses quite a bit of the spread as well with Clark.

[timmynausea]

Dola - In fact, PSU had coaches in Morgantown a couple of years ago to learn some spread stuff from RR and staff. I think Ohio State may have had people there as well, but I don't remember that for sure. Coaches often hold seminars and clinics in the summer to share strategies and such. They just don't share with conference teams or rivals.

[timmynausea]

I forgot about Northwestern - They've been running the spread for several years.

[MJ4H]

Frank Broyles, former Arkansas AD who finally "retired" during last year's house-cleaning:

"The spread offense won't work in the SEC."

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Balldog

Sounds like what everyone said in 02.

Yep.

And as pointed out there is a lot of more speed in the Big 10 than people think.

[cartman]

And lest we forget, there is one last game this week featuring a Top 25 team. Tulsa is taking on Central Florida this evening at 7pm on ESPN. If you haven't seen Tulsa this season, check out this game. They have an incredibly explosive offense.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by rowech

Looks like Penn State will be this year's Big10 fodder to whoever wins the title. The Big10 has not learned it's lesson from the Spanish Armada. Speed kills...slow and lumbering gets killed. That's what football has become and while it's okay to play that brand of football in the Big10 when everone else is doing it, they're slaughtered on the national stage.

It's nice to see Minnesota in the top 20 after starting 7-1, and I'm glad that Tim Brewster is looking to build the Gophers defense with as much speed as possible. It looks like he's trying to build more of an SEC or Big 12 style defense than a traditional Big Ten one. He's brought in a couple of safeties and made them outside linebackers. The addition of speed is the biggest reason that they have managed to go from the worst D in the country last year to 20th in scoring defense and first in turnover margin.

Will be interesting to see how the Gophers manage to finish. They're 7-1 with 3 of the 4 remaining games at home and should be favored the rest of the way out, starting with a Northwestern team that may not have their starters at QB and RB.

[rowech]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

Ohio State is already mixing some of it in with Pryor. Penn State already uses quite a bit of the spread as well with Clark.

Problem is OSU's lineman aren't fast enough to run it well.

[Balldog]

Originally Posted by rowech

Problem is OSU's lineman aren't fast enough to run it well.

Bingo.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Yup. But then again, it wouldn't surprise me that as early as next year you see more teams in the Big 10 changing philosophies to be more wide open.

Yes, Indiana and Illinois have already made the move in that direction.

[cartman]

UCF is doing a good job of keeping Tulsa in check. It is 7-0 Tulsa after 1 quarter.

[sooner333]

Tulsa pulls away with it winning 49-19 and the week is officially over.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by sooner333

The Big Ten is behind the times. I'm sorry, but Penn State or Ohio State shouldn't be in the top ten. They can't handle the speed and either one will be ran up in the bowl games by teams that run no huddle and pass-based offenses. Ohio State already got ran up by USC and Penn State will get run up by the same or by Texas. The only solace will be if they get to play Alabama and it might be a good game...but there is no room for either of those teams in the main stage.

You mean the USC team that lost to Oregon State but Penn State beat by 25? If you are going to use the USC/OSU game to compare...also use that one.

[sooner333]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

You mean the USC team that lost to Oregon State but Penn State beat by 25? If you are going to use the USC/OSU game to compare...also use that one.

That's a good point and I think we all saw that Penn State is better than Ohio State. I'm not going to get in the business of saying Team A beat Team C by 25 points and beat team B by 7 points, but Team D beat team B by more points, but lost to team C. That logic starts getting on pretty shaky ground. But, at the same time, Penn State did beat Oregon State and I'll give them credit for it.

[Dr. Sak]

I agree with your point how you can't use the common opponent logic too much. But what gets me is how people give USC a pass for losing to Oregon State and at the same time say that they were a cupcake on PSU's schedule. If the Beavers are/were indeed a cupcake team, USC should've gotten penalized a lot more than what they did for losing to them.

[Butter]

Go Penn State. Give the Big Ten some relevancy again.

[MJ4H]

Grrr, I'm still hoarse today from the bogus pass interference call.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

I agree with your point how you can't use the common opponent logic too much. But what gets me is how people give USC a pass for losing to Oregon State and at the same time say that they were a cupcake on PSU's schedule. If the Beavers are/were indeed a cupcake team, USC should've gotten penalized a lot more than what they did for losing to them.

Anyone that has followed Pac-10 football for the last several years should know that Oregon State is most assuredly not a "cupcake". Penn State should get a lot of credit for hammering the Beavers.

Oregon State is a pretty good team - maybe not top-25, but top-40 for sure.

[sooner333]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

I agree with your point how you can't use the common opponent logic too much. But what gets me is how people give USC a pass for losing to Oregon State and at the same time say that they were a cupcake on PSU's schedule. If the Beavers are/were indeed a cupcake team, USC should've gotten penalized a lot more than what they did for losing to them.

They aren't a cupcake team. Even so, I do think USC beats Penn State, but probably not really bad. I don't think USC is a top five team either. I am really talking about the faster-paced no-huddle spread which SC doesn't run.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

........should get a lot of credit for hammering the Beavers.

I KNOW that I'm not the only one that laughed after reading that. Fess up.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I KNOW that I'm not the only one that laughed after reading that. Fess up.

I considered changing my phrasing, but thought better of it. If Oregon State wants to be known as the "Beavers", I'm going to take full advantage of that nickname...

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I KNOW that I'm not the only one that laughed after reading that. Fess up.

[dawgfan]

The beginning of the restoration of Husky football has commenced today, as Ty Willingham has announced his resignation, effective at the end of the season.

I wish I could be more magnanimous about Ty, I wish I could agree with all those people that seem to think he's a great person, but I can't - my observation of him as coach of the UW and the knowledge of what's gone on since he became coach here leads only to the conclusion that he's a bitter, paranoid, arrogant and incredibly self-centered jerk. Not to mention a not very good head coach.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out you fraud.

happy music to celebrate

[Lathum]

I wonder if they go for Kiffen now?

[Butter]

Here comes Jim Mora, Jr.!

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

The beginning of the restoration of Husky football has commenced today, as Ty Willingham has announced his resignation, effective at the end of the season.

Bring back Jim Lambright!

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

Bring back Jim Lambright!

He'd be a lot better than Ty.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I wonder if they go for Kiffen now?

I sure hope not.

[cartman]

I heard Warren Moon's name mentioned.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by cartman

I heard Warren Moon's name mentioned.

Seriously? I wouldn't give that rumor any credence whatsoever.

Jim Mora is likely the top target, along with Gary Pinkel and Jeff Tedford. Presuming none of those guys can be pried from their current gigs, speculation will probably turn to guys like Chris Peterson and Pat Hill.

My personal favorite if they can't get Mora or Tedford would be to go after Gary Patterson.

Just say "no" to Lane Kiffin please...

[Lathum]

Isn't Mora in line to take over for Holmgren?

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Isn't Mora in line to take over for Holmgren?

Yep. And it's a good bet he'll still do so. But it's also possible that he really does consider the UW his dream job and would be willing to pass on the Seahawks gig.

The NFL is a more brutal environment than college football in terms of coaching careers, and he may figure the Seahawks present a greater challenge than the Huskies. Look at it this way - the only direction the UW can go is up. The Seahawks on the other hand may be in the middle of a painful transition from the perennial playoff team they had been and into an uncertain rebuilding. The expectations are still high for this franchise, and even a few seasons of mediocre or worse football would not be acceptable for most of the fan base.

[JHandley]

I can't quite follow you here.

Originally Posted by dawgfan

The NFL is a more brutal environment than college football in terms of coaching careers, and he may figure the Seahawks present a greater challenge than the Huskies.

I think if he has success at UW, he can stay there as long as he wants. I'm not sure how coaching in a cyclical NFL presents less of a challenge than taking over a winless college program.

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Look at it this way - the only direction the UW can go is up.

That's not true. That's the same direction Ty could go when he took over the team. There are still multiple winless seasons to be attained here.

Originally Posted by dawgfan

The Seahawks on the other hand may be in the middle of a painful transition from the perennial playoff team they had been and into an uncertain rebuilding.

And the high level first round draft picks that come with a losing season. Turning around a team is always a challenge and I agree the Seahawks are about to rebuild, but the NFL version of rebuilding is a lot more certain than the college brand.

Originally Posted by dawgfan

The expectations are still high for this franchise, and even a few seasons of mediocre or worse football would not be acceptable for most of the fan base.

That's exactly what they used to say about UW. I think we have all found out that that's not true.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by JHandley

I can't quite follow you here.

I think if he has success at UW, he can stay there as long as he wants. I'm not sure how coaching in a cyclical NFL presents less of a challenge than taking over a winless college program.

You seem to have misunderstood me - my point is that patience for coaches in the NFL is shorter than in college. In particular, Mora potentially faces the options of:

A) Taking over a Seahawks franchise (with which he has no prior connection before being hired as DB coach last year) that has 5 straight winning seasons and playoff berths, including a Super Bowl run 3 years ago, but is now facing a possible losing season and a rebuild, but with a fan base that still wants and is holding out for another Super Bowl run;

B) Taking over a Husky program that is at its lowest point ever where just reaching .500 will be greeted as a major accomplishment, and with all the benefit from the fan base as an alumnus and legacy of the great Don James years and a guy that would be turning his back on the NFL to "save" the Husky program can get

It's my contention that Mora would get a lot more benefit of the doubt as coach of the Huskies than he would as coach of the Seahawks, and he has a much greater chance of holding his job long-term at the UW than he would with the Seahawks.

That's not true. That's the same direction Ty could go when he took over the team. There are still multiple winless seasons to be attained here.

It is true. When Ty took over, the team had just gone 1-10, but that was the first losing season since 1976 and was just 4 seasons removed from a Rose Bowl win and #3 national ranking. At that point, the 1-10 season was an aberration. Now under Ty, losing is the culture of UW football, as the program is now in its fifth consecutive losing season (the UW had never had more than 3 losing seasons in a row prior to Ty).

Now, it is possible that the next coach could continue to seriously underperform and the program could continue losing, yes. But realistically, Mora couldn't really do any worse than Willingham.

And the high level first round draft picks that come with a losing season. Turning around a team is always a challenge and I agree the Seahawks are about to rebuild, but the NFL version of rebuilding is a lot more certain than the college brand.

True, but winning NFL franchises don't often have the patience to keep a coach through a rebuilding phase. Head Coaches get fired quicker in the NFL than at the college level.

This might turn out to just be a blip on the radar of long-term Seahawks success, with a high draft pick contributing to a quick recovery for the franchise. But there are a number of aging pieces that will present the franchise with a challenge to replace - Hasselbeck and Jones being the biggest.

While rebuilding is tougher at the college level in some ways, if you're a good recruiter it can also be easier. By all accounts Mora has a great recruiting personality - he's used by the Seahawks to recruit free agents - and the state of Washington looks to have a primo crop of prospects in the 2010 class that could help the program rebuild depth and build upon Ty's one really good class that he signed last year.

That's exactly what they used to say about UW. I think we have all found out that that's not true.

UW fans aren't real patient, but for reasons I noted above, I think there will be a little more patience among UW fans to right the program if it's Mora in charge than Seahawks fans would be if the franchise slips into mediocrity.

[JHandley]

The quoting thing is starting to get out of hand, so I'll keep this as a quick reply.

I think I did misunderstand you. It seems you're saying that he'll have more leeway in college than in the NFL. I'd agree with that with a caveat included - that's true after 3 years. If the Seahawks are still rebuilding in 3 years of him at the helm, he'll be fired. If UW is still rebuilding after his 3 years, he'll be fired. The difference is after that. If he has made UW relevant in the Pac-10 again, he can stay as long as he wants. With the Seahawks, he'll be able to stay until they need to rebuild again.

My point of contention is that I don't think the challenge of rebuilding the Seahawks is tougher than the challenge of rebuilding the UW.

I also disagree that you can't do worse than Ty. I'm also not sure how his record indicates it's not realistic he could do worse than Ty. His head coaching resume is limited and weak. In Atlanta he progressively got worse every year. 11-5, 8-8, 7-9.

He could very well turn around the program. I know a lot of people, who know a lot more than I do, think very highly of him. I just read and listen to UW folks and they seem to have already annointed him as the savior and I think that's premature, at best.

If he does take the job (It'll certainly be offered to him), it certainly isn't going to be because it's an easier task than the Seahawks.

[dawgfan]

The next UW coach, unless he absolutely craters, will get at least 4 seasons just like Ty did. If it's Mora, he'll probably get all 5 years, because he'll have greatly excited the fan base and more importantly boosters. Mora will do all the off-field stuff that Ty hated that will endear him to the press, boosters, fans and administration and will give him an extra layer of cushion if his product on the field isn't up to snuff.

Mora's NFL record isn't great. On the other hand, it's the best of any Falcons coach, with the 2nd best season any Falcons coach has had. And it's not like Atlanta was rolling when he took over:

2003: 5-11
2002: 9-6-1
2001: 7-9
2000: 4-12
1999: 5-11

If you look at coaches that have led both NFL and college teams, as a group their college coaching record is superior. There is a long and distinguished list of coaches that had tremendous success at the college level that did worse (and in many cases a lot worse) in the NFL than Mora did in Atlanta.

There's obviously no guarantee that Mora is a great coach. But he's good enough that the Seahawks wanted to lock him up a year ahead of time despite his firing in Atlanta, and they weren't the only NFL team interested in him as a head coach.

While his lack of college coaching experience is a legitimate issue, he does seem to have the personality to be a great recruiter at the college level (which is a big part of succeeding as a college head coach), and his pedigree and connections should enable him to assemble a strong coaching staff. One would assume he'd have at least a few assistants that are well versed in the college game that he can lean on for advice in the differences between the NFL and college coaching.

And as noted above, the story he'd be able to sell if he chose to turn down the Seahawks and the NFL to return to his alma mater in his dream job would be incredibly compelling - it would be very hard for players, recruits, fans, boosters and the media to not be wowed by it.

Maybe Mora isn't that great of a coach, but for the reasons above, UW owes itself to make him say "no" before they move on to other candidates.

[BishopMVP]

I'm glad for Dawgfan UW finally got rid of that charlatan (although leaving him around to finish out the season is a little weird). Hopefully this is the final nail in the "Notre Dame is racist" coffin.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

This Washington coaching opening is the one that Mizzou fans have worried about for some time. If Mizzou can manage to keep Pinkel from going to Washington, that will likely be the last time we have to worry about him leaving. My understanding is that Pinkel's holy grail of coaching positions has always been the Washington job.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

This Washington coaching opening is the one that Mizzou fans have worried about for some time. If Mizzou can manage to keep Pinkel from going to Washington, that will likely be the last time we have to worry about him leaving. My understanding is that Pinkel's holy grail of coaching positions has always been the Washington job.

I know contracts are only as good as the paper they are written on, but didn't Mizzou just give him a nice contract extension?

The thing I worry about is how this is the last year for Daniels, Coffman, and probably Macklin.. as well as some other key senior players.. could be a good time for Pinkel to bail.. although I hope he stays and keeps this program going forward.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I know contracts are only as good as the paper they are written on, but didn't Mizzou just give him a nice contract extension?

The thing I worry about is how this is the last year for Daniels, Coffman, and probably Macklin.. as well as some other key senior players.. could be a good time for Pinkel to bail.. although I hope he stays and keeps this program going forward.

Yes, he just received a new extension on his contract, though I think the buyout is still relatively low for a D-I coach.

[Lathum]

Just saw Kiffen has thrown his hat in the ring for the UW job.