NFL Week 7

[flere-imsaho]

I think it's because either in our memories or maybe even in reality, the # of times Favre's stupid decisions have gone well outnumber the # of times his stupid decisions have ended badly.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I watched most of the Jets-Raiders overtime, and it leaves me wondering something: Just how many "legendary" quarterbacks were practically expected to do something stupid with the game on the line? I know Brett Favre has won a Super Bowl and he's been the league MVP and has great stats and all that, but nobody seems surprised when he chucks the ball right into a defender's chest at crunch time. We're not surprised because we've seen it before, seemingly again and again. Did anyone expect this stuff from Montana or Elway or even Warren Moon? Who wants to cringe every time their starting quarterback throws a pass in overtime? Hell, I wouldn't have even expected that garbage from Bobby Hebert.

I'm not trying to say that Brett Favre is a bad quarterback. He's been a great one. It's just that he's pretty much made a class for himself. It's almost as if he's a great quarterback in spite of himself. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any others like that.

Maybe Warren moon?

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

I think it's because either in our memories or maybe even in reality, the # of times Favre's stupid decisions have gone well outnumber the # of times his stupid decisions have ended badly.

I'm sure that his stupid decisions have turned out well much more often than they turn out badly. On top of that, I think even some of his biggest fans would acknowledge that many of his "good" plays have come from stupid decisions. I just can't think of any other quarterbacks who would have that case made for them. "Yep, no matter how stupid his throws are, he still gets the job done!!!" That's something I'd expect to hear about a journeyman, not a future Hall of Famer.

It's just peculiar to me.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Maybe Warren moon?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I wasn't trying to be cute. I just thought from your examples, I always felt Moon was a gunslinging QB similar to Bret Favre is all. Your example of Bobby Hebert I didn't think was as close, because if anything Bobby was always a calculating take it safe QB who didn't make the great plays because he never wanted to risk making a mistake. Moon on the other hand made some great plays but also made some really horrible ones.

Out of the Hall of famers I have watched, he was the only other one that came in my mind at least!

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I wasn't trying to be cute. I just thought from your examples, I always felt Moon was a gunslinging QB similar to Bret Favre is all. Your example of Bobby Hebert I didn't think was as close, because if anything Bobby was always a calculating take it safe QB who didn't make the great plays because he never wanted to risk making a mistake. Moon on the other hand made some great plays but also made some really horrible ones.

Out of the Hall of famers I have watched, he was the only other one that came in my mind at least!

Good points on Warren Moon. I just thought it was funny as I picked out a name of a great quarterback without really thinking about it, and you caught on to it as fitting with my point. Good stuff.

As for Bobby Hebert, I completely agree with you. My point about him was that he would never be considered a "legendary" or even "great" quarterback, but I would feel safer with him as my QB in overtime instead of Brett Favre. It's not necessarily that I'd expect Hebert to win the game for me, but I wouldn't expect him to give it away with a badly-thrown interception. Notice that I said I would feel "safer" with Hebert at QB. I wouldn't necessarily feel "better" with Hebert at QB.

So, basically, I still acknowledge that Brett Favre is a great quarterback, but it's eerie that there could be a time that I would prefer a Bobby Hebert type on the field instead. I can't think of a time that I would ever prefer Hebert over Montana or Elway.

[MikeVic]

Give me Big Ben over Favre.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Give me David Klingler over Big Ben.

[Galaril]

So, the Titans beat the Colts next Monday at home, Jags lose, and the Titans will have a four game lead and with a 3-0 record and 7-0 in conference
so that would actually be a 5 game lead in the division with 9 games left might mean game over for the AFC south.

[SirFozzie]

The Patriots. Jekyll and F*cking hyde... wow.

[SirFozzie]

What a horrible first half for the Broncos.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

The Patriots. Jekyll and F*cking hyde... wow.

No Patriots Jekyll and Hyde here. They still suck horribly on both offense and defense. The Denver defense is the worst in the league (I don't care what the stats say, there isn't a D worse in this league) The Broncos offense would have plenty of points if Hall hadn't kept fumbling the ball away. (and a complete and total BS offensive interference call on the Broncos that just killed the beginning of a drive)

This game is what it is. Two unbelievably average teams missing a ton of injured players and struggling on both sides of the ball. Who wins win that happens? The team who makes the fewest mistakes. That'd be the Patriots. And barring a meltdown from them in the second half, they'll win the game easily.

Neither of these teams is going anywhere. I'd be stunned at this point if either made the playoffs.

By the way, I love how Moss just threw Bly to the ground and no PI was called. Nice play by play by Tirico saying there wasn't a push. Guess Bly's legs just caved under themselves. (FWIW, I say don't throw a flag there, but you don't do it on Marshall either. Just be consistent)

[Buccaneer]

Troy, I love you man but your doom and gloom hyperbolics is really tired. You would be "stunned" if the Donkeys make the playoffs? You mean after they move out of the AFC West division?

[DeToxRox]

What happened to Cutler?

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I watched most of the Jets-Raiders overtime, and it leaves me wondering something: Just how many "legendary" quarterbacks were practically expected to do something stupid with the game on the line? I know Brett Favre has won a Super Bowl and he's been the league MVP and has great stats and all that, but nobody seems surprised when he chucks the ball right into a defender's chest at crunch time. We're not surprised because we've seen it before, seemingly again and again. Did anyone expect this stuff from Montana or Elway or even Warren Moon? Who wants to cringe every time their starting quarterback throws a pass in overtime? Hell, I wouldn't have even expected that garbage from Bobby Hebert.

I'm not trying to say that Brett Favre is a bad quarterback. He's been a great one. It's just that he's pretty much made a class for himself. It's almost as if he's a great quarterback in spite of himself. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any others like that.

youve just come to the realization that Favre is the most overrated qb of all time? if it wasnt for the press circle jerking and slurping him the last decade plus, or the best special teams performance by a returner in SB history he would be exposed as the above average QB that he is. just above average who never got seriously hurt and padded his stats in a pass friendly era in a sport where stats are meaningless is you throw a bad pass with the game on the line

[kingfc22]

And Mike Nolan is finally done

[Buccaneer]

youve just come to the realization that Favre is the most overrated qb of all time

I have said that every season here for 7 years but no one listens to me.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Troy, I love you man but your doom and gloom hyperbolics is really tired. You would be "stunned" if the Donkeys make the playoffs? You mean after they move out of the AFC West division?

Buc,

The defense is the worst defense in the league. That isn't going to be fixed in the bye week. They will get healthier and better on offense. (provided Cutler is ok) Still, this is a team that should be 2-5 after this week. They'll be 4-3 thanks to some horrific officiating, some missed kicks and playing the Raiders on opening night.

But do I think this team is any better than 8-8? Please. Spare me. The Chargers have more talent than Denver. They are a flawed team as well (especially with LT playing as poorly as he is), but they have more playmakers on defense and will win the AFC West.

At this point, I see the AFC playoff race as this:

Division Winners

Bills
Steelers
Titans
Chargers

Wildcard

either Jax or Indy get one wild card spot. The second wild card spot is between the loser of the Jax/Indy battle, Ravens, Browns or Jets. All are better teams. (Jets laid an egg in Oakland, but when you look at that schedule, you see Seattle, SF, Miami, Stl, and a horrible Denver team. I still give them the edge)

The Patriots are really bad. I know, they are up 20-0. but Denver has 5 sacks. That's half of our season total in a half. I mean it's nice that Denver is turning Sammy Morris into the second coming of Gayle Sayers and all, but you'll forgive me for thinking he'll struggle to do that against an even average defense. Patriots are an 8-8 team. At best.

Denver? Good lord. I can't even begin to tell you how bad this defense is. Heading into tonight, Denver has given up 73% completion rate to opposing QB's. They are giving up an average of 5.1 yards a carry on the ground. They are giving up over 6 yards a play from scrimmage. You think that team is winning the AFC West? Seriously? Please. . .

[Buccaneer]

Yes, esp. since they will be up by 2.5 games after next weekend.

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I have said that every season here for 7 years but no one listens to me.

ive been listening to you, im just shy and quiet

[TroyF]

Dola

Now Denver is missing both of the Bailey brothers and Jarvis Moss is getting a lot of PT. WOO HOO. This is gonna get UGLY.

Take a look at the Denver starting D tonight. Champ Bailey. Elvis Dumerville. Marcus Thomas. DJ Williams. Those guys will all return next year. Everyone else? Buh Bye.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by TroyF

The Denver defense is the worst in the league (I don't care what the stats say, there isn't a D worse in this league)

I'll gladly give you Detroit's then.

[DeToxRox]

Troy - I missed it, what happened to Cutler?

[TroyF]

Cutler banged his finger on a Patriots players helmut

First pass of the game


Buc,

Even if SD loses next week, it's a 1.5 game lead for Denver, not 2.5

Matt,

Done.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Cutler banged his finger on a Patriots players helmut

First pass of the game


Buc,

Even if SD loses next week, it's a 1.5 game lead for Denver, not 2.5

Matt,

Done.

Don't they already have a game up on the Bolts head-to-head? That makes it 2.5.

With all of the injuries tonight (and this season), it would stupid to go to a 18-game schedule. But the hard-core fans will happy, no matter the cost in bodies and quality.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Matt,

Done.

With Denver's D at least those players are coming back at some point even if it's next year. With Detroit, the only thing coming back is more sucking.

[kingfc22]

Looks like Rodney Harrison blew his knee out on the turf...

[Lathum]

and Harrison is down, what a shame

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Looks like Rodney Harrison blew his knee out on the turf...

I hope Trent Green is smiling somewhere.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by TroyF

The Patriots are really bad. I know, they are up 20-0. but Denver has 5 sacks. That's half of our season total in a half. I mean it's nice that Denver is turning Sammy Morris into the second coming of Gayle Sayers and all, but you'll forgive me for thinking he'll struggle to do that against an even average defense. Patriots are an 8-8 team. At best.

St. Louis
@Indy
Buffalo
NYJ
@Miami
Pitt
@Seattle
@Oakland
Arizona
@Buffalo

3 of those teams are good (Buffalo 2x, Pitt) at this point. St. Louis might be playing better than Indy, the NFL this year has shown poor teams can beat "good" ones any week, and as tonight showed, win the turnover battle by 2+, you'll probably win. Are we good? No, but I would take the over on the 8-8.

EDIT - I'll add I was even pointing out the drawbacks to getting so many turnovers early in the game - it means Matt Cassell keeps the job for a couple weeks. O'Connell at least doesn't stand around waiting to get sacked.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Take a look at the Denver starting D tonight. Champ Bailey. Elvis Dumerville. Marcus Thomas. DJ Williams. Those guys will all return next year. Everyone else? Buh Bye.

How about they dump all those guys except Dumervil? He's about the only guy on that defense I like anymore.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

How about they dump all those guys except Dumervil? He's about the only guy on that defense I like anymore.

Really? Not a fan of the 2nd-best* cornerback in the NFL?

(*Just kidding, there's no way to tell if he or Asomugha is better since neither get thrown at.)

[Fidatelo]

As a Broncos fan, I agree with TroyF. The Broncos defense is absolutely terrible. But then again, we knew that going into the season. They are who we thought they were, only for some reason after getting lucky in their first 3 games, everyone seemed to forget.

Before the season I had the Broncos pegged at 6-10 or maybe 7-9 this year, and only because I figured they could get 3-4 wins out of their division thanks to Oakland and KC. Because of that fluke against San Diego I think they've got a shot at 8-8 now, but I still won't be surprised if they end up at 7-9 or 6-10. I like Cutler and Marshall and the guys on offense, but it's asking way too much of them to get 30+ points every night.

I also agree that most of those guys on defense need to go. I think Champ is a good corner, but is a bit overrated. Still, I wouldn't want him to go. Dre Bly, on the other hand, is just plain bad. I was really excited when they got him before last season, but he just seems to get burned repeatedly most games. Time to try out someone young on that side I think. As for the rest of the defense, I don't get to watch enough games, and I'm not savvy enough of a football fan, to really know who or what the problems are.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

St. Louis
@Indy
Buffalo
NYJ
@Miami
Pitt
@Seattle
@Oakland
Arizona
@Buffalo

3 of those teams are good (Buffalo 2x, Pitt) at this point. St. Louis might be playing better than Indy, the NFL this year has shown poor teams can beat "good" ones any week, and as tonight showed, win the turnover battle by 2+, you'll probably win. Are we good? No, but I would take the over on the 8-8.

EDIT - I'll add I was even pointing out the drawbacks to getting so many turnovers early in the game - it means Matt Cassell keeps the job for a couple weeks. O'Connell at least doesn't stand around waiting to get sacked.

I think Cassell might like getting hit by large men. That can be the only explaination for some of those sacks.

I think 10-6 in spite of themselves.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Really? Not a fan of the 2nd-best* cornerback in the NFL?

(*Just kidding, there's no way to tell if he or Asomugha is better since neither get thrown at.)

Not a fan of Champ Bailey anymore, no. I've seen him miss as many tackles as the other guys. He can cover downfield, but I see him playing way off receivers and allowing short passes. Normally, that's fine, but he's gotta make the tackle after the guy catches the quick hitch. He's missed too many times. I'm pretty much done with him at this point.

[Lathum]

I wonder how many people are gonna get killed that bet the over on the Cowboys win total this season

[FrogMan]

torn quadriceps for Harrison, done for season, will most certainly retire
Quad tear ends Rodney Harrison’s season - BostonHerald.com

FM

[Lathum]

very few people I would say this about but, good.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Lathum

very few people I would say this about but, good.

QFT

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Not a fan of Champ Bailey anymore, no. I've seen him miss as many tackles as the other guys. He can cover downfield, but I see him playing way off receivers and allowing short passes. Normally, that's fine, but he's gotta make the tackle after the guy catches the quick hitch. He's missed too many times. I'm pretty much done with him at this point.

Be caredul what you wish for... there are maybe 15 guys in the NFL that can cover downfield without help. And then your draft picks don't pan out and you have Deltha O'Neal starting at CB.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Be caredul what you wish for... there are maybe 15 guys in the NFL that can cover downfield without help. And then your draft picks don't pan out and you have Deltha O'Neal starting at CB.

LOL, I agree, while I think Champ is overrated, I'd still always want him on my team.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Be caredul what you wish for... there are maybe 15 guys in the NFL that can cover downfield without help. And then your draft picks don't pan out and you have Deltha O'Neal starting at CB.

Been there. Not to blame it all on Champ, but the defense wasn't really any worse when Deltha O'Neal was starting back there.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

And in KC, QB Brodie Croyle returns from an injury and looks pretty good going 9/10, gets his knee sprained and is out again it looks like. Chiefs can't catch a break.

And it gets worse for the Chiefs, except of course if you are a Coastal Carolina fan like me. Damon Huard is now out for the rest of the season along with Croyle. That leaves Coastal Carolina's own Tyler Thigpen as the #1 QB. They did sign Quinn Gray after having talks with Culpepper, but weren't close to signing him.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

With all thats going on with KC, is there any chance of an 0-16 there?

They might be a real bad team, but I have a hunch that the Chiefs will be -just- good enough to not lose the game they already won against Denver earlier this season

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Alan T

They might be a real bad team, but I have a hunch that the Chiefs will be -just- good enough to not lose the game they already won against Denver earlier this season

I don't know. If you lose by over 100 points, don't they actually take a previous win away?

[Kodos]

Sounds like Brady's recovery is not going well.

ESPN - Brady has more procedures for infection; Pats upset with situation - NFL

Brady has more procedures for infection; Pats upset with situation

ESPN.com news services

Doctors are aggressively fighting an infection in Tom Brady's surgically repaired left knee.

Brady recently acknowledged on his Web site that doctors went in "to clean and to test the wound" on Oct. 15 because of the infection. The New England Patriots quarterback has had two more similar procedures since then.

The story was first reported by the Boston Herald and confirmed by ESPN's Wendi Nix.

The Patriots, as an organization, are upset with the situation because they were clear that they wanted Brady's surgery done under the direction of doctors of their choosing in Boston, sources told ESPN.

Instead, Brady opted to have the surgery in California by a doctor his family preferred, and now there are major problems. Brady was supposed to be back in New England by now, but a timeline for his return remains unclear.

A person close to Brady told ESPN: "Tom is looking at months, not weeks, to fix this."

According to the Herald, Brady is on a six-week course of intravenously administered antibiotics, and is still having follow-up exams at the Kerlan-Jobe Orthopaedic Clinic in Los Angeles, where the surgery took place.

If the infection is not brought under control, the patellar tendon graft used to replace Brady's anterior cruciate ligament could become compromised, according to the Herald's report. If that happens, he will have to undergo another surgery on the ACL. That would reset the clock on his rehabilitation.

Brady had surgery on Oct. 6 -- 29 days after he was injured in the Patriots' season opener -- on a hit by Kansas City Chiefs safety Bernard Pollard. Brady reportedly tore the anterior cruciate and medial collateral ligaments in the knee.

Information from ESPN reporter Wendi Nix and The Associated Press was used in this report.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I'd like to give Wendi Nix an infection.

Wait, what?

[molson]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Sounds like Brady's recovery is not going well.

I'm sure NeonChaos is happy to hear that. (though he might not be fully satisfied unless the leg comes off).

It sounds like some of 2009 might be at risk.

[Kodos]

It sounds like all of 2009 might be at risk.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I'd like to give Wendi Nix an infection.

Wait, what?

I wasn't sure who that was so I did the google thing. Cute. But isn't it funny if you google any female sports reporters name, you always get a pic of Erin Andrews in the search?

Oh, and as for having 2009 at risk for Brady, according to Mort try his career.