Alright Boyz, Here We Go! The World Of Mixed Martial Arts First Impressions Thread

[Calis]

I think it's a Quickfix. He's not putting out a full patch, but wants to release a quickfix for this issue.

Just a weird phrasing of it.

I started with a bigger organization so I haven't ran into the problems mentioned yet. It does seem like fighters are taking longer between fights, because I'm about 6 months in and really scrambling to put anything decent on once a month, let alone add a TV show or something else to the mix.

[DaddyTorgo]

okay I'm still in the booking process, but WTF WTF WTF

What is with these cheesy-looking belts as a scouting report? Fuck that. Seriously. Fuck that. It's fucking convoluted and irritating. Why are you making the game more difficult for me to understand? LAME

[SirFozzie]

There's already a mod out for that, converting it to a letter grade, DT.

I can understand it, and it's an attempt to make it somewhat less spreadsheety.

[DaddyTorgo]

and why not give me options to search for fighters by style? what if i want to hire more sambo guys? I'm supposed to scroll through everybody?? fuck that

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

There's already a mod out for that, converting it to a letter grade, DT.

I can understand it, and it's an attempt to make it somewhat less spreadsheety.

yay mods

not sure how much of a fan of the new pbp i am. idk bout this game - i want to like it but idk

[SirFozzie]

It's pretty fun.. but.. you still don't have the immersion that I was fully looking for, for some reason. You sometimes don't get the feeling that you're in a real world, the way you do with FM or TEW..


Maybe the following:

Every so often, get an email from your fighters suggesting fights they want (if they dislike someone, for example)..

or brief canned lines from fighters saying what they plan to do in a fight, for example.

[AlexB]

Searching for fighters is a chore, but other than that I have to say I really like the game now it has been patched to auto pbp and a few other niggles have been sorted. I can even cope with the clicking other than in the searching.

If the search was more friendly, I would have exactly zero complaints about this game right now.

[dubb93]

My biggest issue is that even with the "fix" to overness it doesn't seem to be working as intended. I think the issue isn't with fighter overness themselves, although I think that is problem. I have had one fighter fight 4 fights for my mid level international promotion and he is still only high level regional. He won every fight and my promotion rankings have him as the #1 in his weight class in my company and number 2 in the world.

I think the issue lies more with how wildly promotion overness swings are. I've seen huge drops and gains off just one show. I don't think one show should be doing anymore than +/- 5% overness tops IMHO. I've seen drops and gains of 20+ points off single shows. I think that is where the problem is.

[DaddyTorgo]

what was the verdict on this game - did it get better?

[BYU 14]

I have to give it two thumbs up. I like the challenge that comes with balancing fighter overness with your promotion popularity. It forces you to be really careful booking and also stay after fresh talent as you grow.

If you manage your finances well early, you can build enough cash reserve to sign fighters that will keep up with your popularity. I am continuing to enjoy this game a ton!

[dubb93]

I'm bumping this to point out that some exciting mods have either recently come out or are in the home stretch of development for this game and I think that some people that have put the game down may want to come back and check these mods out.

hxxp://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61420

The above link goes to Dawn of MMA which is a mod set in 1993 a couple of months before UFC 1. Companies/TV stations/PPV characters/fighters all debut when you would expect them up to up to 2009. The only issue is with fight camps, however you can read the thread for ideas and/or rationale behind the camps. Myself I added the Lion's Den to be open at the onset of the game and used wikipedia/google to research all the fight camps and set them to open as close to when they really did. If I couldn't find any information I just set them to random.

The other mod link is:

hxxp://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60746

The link is to As Real As It Gets. It is a very similar mod that starts in 1993 and has yet to come out. I would say it is the "bigger" mod as it has been in known development for a very long time at this point. They expect the mod to be out within the next couple of weeks as they are in the testing/beta phase ATM.

So go grab Dawn of MMA and give it a test run until As Real As It Gets drops.

[DaddyTorgo]

awesome - thanks dubber!

[Calis]

Wow that mod sounds awesome. Oddly just in the past week I've gone back to the game and tried out some of the real world mods(believe I'm using Tap or Snap) and I've enjoyed it a good deal. This version definitely lends itself better to representing real fighters than the first did. I haven't seen anything I'd consider crazier than we see happen in real life, and the results are usually relatively reasonable or I've just lowered my expectations a lot.

Getting the chance to go back and see these fighters evolve sounds like a blast. I will definitely be checking this out tonight.

Is there a photo pack for the mod available as well?

Really I think WMMA2 is a pretty solid game, my major issues are just general gripes with Ryland and his UI's. If it wasn't such a chore to play it would be one of my favorite sport sims.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Calis

Is there a photo pack for the mod available as well?

Sadly no. I'm not sure if the unofficial packs will work with the mod or not, although I'm sure if it does there will be fighters that won't have pics, especially in As Real As It Gets and the 4500 fighters in that mod.

[Calis]

Yes, that would be another monster undertaking. I'm actually surprised how much difference the pictures make with regards to immersion and general enjoyment of the game.

I imagine the names are equal on enough of the fighters that the general facepacks could work to some extent and we can edit the other major players ourselves as needed/wanted.

Man those first few years could be pretty slow going waiting for events and such to roll around. I've been spoiled playing the current rosters where I can run an event every 2-3 weeks or so.

Can't wait to see if I can make my Severn/Shamrock 2 match even more hideous than the real one!

[dubb93]

Just had the event of my early UFC. I've been running events as they were really ran in the UFC time wise, not fighter wise so when it came time for Ultimate Ultimate 1995 in December 1995 I was about to run my 8th event. I decided that the event would feature fighters who had either won a tournament, or been a runner up in a tournament to this point making it my biggest show ever. The players:

Bas Rutten 6-0-0
*Current UFC SuperFight Champion
*Winner of the tournament at UFC 4

David "Tank" Abbott 3-1-0
*Winner of the tournament at UFC 6

"The King of the Streets" Marco Ruas 3-0-0
*Winner of the tournament at UFC 7

Oleg Taktarov 5-3-0
*Former UFC SuperFight Champion
*Winner of the Tournament at UFC 3

Tsuyoshi Kohsaka 2-2-0
*Tournament runner-up at UFC 6

Dave Beneteau 2-1-0
*Tournament runner-up at UFC 7

Ken Shamrock 5-3-0
*Considered the #1 contender for the UFC SuperFight Championship
*Tournament runner-up at UFC 1
*Tournament runner-up at UFC 2

So there are 7, my plan was to add Teila Tuli the winner of UFC 1, however as an exclusive fighter for Extreme Fighting he wouldn't negotiate with me, neither would Royce Grace the winner of UFC 2, so I was out of options as far as previous winners/runner-ups went, so I decide to spend some money and bring in Rickson Gracie, considered the greatest living Gracie. Rickson would be making his debut in the UFC. Random.org determined the brackets. The fights would have 15 minute time limts as was standard for non-title fights.

Bas Rutten defeats Ken Shamrock by KO at 14:51

Dave Beneteau defeats Tsuyoshi Kohsaka by unanimous decision

David "Tank" Abbott defeats Oleg Takatarov by unanimous decision

Rickson Gracie defeats Marco Ruas by submission at 3:31

Rd. 2

Bas Rutten defeats Dave Beneteau by unanimous decision

Rickson Gracie defeats David "Tank" Abbott by submission at 7:09

And the finals were set to be the biggest fight in UFC history by far. The striker with the great takedown defense in Bas Rutten was set to take on the greatest living BJJ practitioner in the world.

Less than a minute into the fight Bas drops Rickson with a huge right cross and mounts him to go for the finish, however, Rickson digs deep and fights off the onslaught. Bas attempts to stand up, however he is now sucked into the BJJ of Rickson who won't let him up. Rickson ends up getting a sweep and eventually finishes with a Kimura at 3:38.

The fight wins Main Event of the year and now I'm at a cross roads as I lost my ass on the event(mainly due to Rickson's huge salary) but I think the world deserves to see Rickson vs. Bas II for the title.

[DaddyTorgo]

awesome

they absolutely do

[Calis]

Played through a couple cards with that Dawn data set. It is an impressive amount of work. I'm noticing some oddities that I think may boil down to the way the WMMA engine works. I'm seeing way too long of fights. I imagine he had to diminish the stopping power of the early fighters so they would be phased out by the more rounded fighters more accurately, but it makes for some funky matches to start.

I just had Royce Gracie lose a 60 minute decision to Telie Tula. I'm not sure he could stay standing that long, but to be fair it was 60 minutes of Tula sandwiching him against the cage. I'm having a lot of fights go 45+ minutes and a fair amount ending in submissions.

Understandable though as the game wasn't meant to portray this level of MMA, and I imagine this really shapes up more as you get into the late 90's, early 00's. Still having fun setting up the matches.

To anyone curious in my game Shamrock won the 1st UFC over Royce via a 60 minute decision, and Jason Delucia won the 2nd event by submitting Patrick Smith in about 9 minutes. I plan on setting up Shamrock vs. Delucia at UFC 3 for the Superfight title, and then I'm not sure if I'll have tourneys be a #1 contender decider or work on setting up a version a Tournament of Champions.

So it seems like you have to be willing to deal with warts, but I think I'm going to get a lot of enjoyment out of this anyway.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Calis

Played through a couple cards with that Dawn data set. It is an impressive amount of work. I'm noticing some oddities that I think may boil down to the way the WMMA engine works. I'm seeing way too long of fights. I imagine he had to diminish the stopping power of the early fighters so they would be phased out by the more rounded fighters more accurately, but it makes for some funky matches to start.

I just had Royce Gracie lose a 60 minute decision to Telie Tula. I'm not sure he could stay standing that long, but to be fair it was 60 minutes of Tula sandwiching him against the cage. I'm having a lot of fights go 45+ minutes and a fair amount ending in submissions.

Understandable though as the game wasn't meant to portray this level of MMA, and I imagine this really shapes up more as you get into the late 90's, early 00's. Still having fun setting up the matches.

To anyone curious in my game Shamrock won the 1st UFC over Royce via a 60 minute decision, and Jason Delucia won the 2nd event by submitting Patrick Smith in about 9 minutes. I plan on setting up Shamrock vs. Delucia at UFC 3 for the Superfight title, and then I'm not sure if I'll have tourneys be a #1 contender decider or work on setting up a version a Tournament of Champions.

So it seems like you have to be willing to deal with warts, but I think I'm going to get a lot of enjoyment out of this anyway.

He said that if he gave the starting fighters the ability to end fights that they would have too much staying power. Here is his quote from the thread. The quote is in reference to the relative lack of KO power in the starting fighters even though back then most fights ended by a quick KO.

The problem there is that they stay relevant in the sport for longer than they should. I'd rather have a more enjoyable later game at the expense of draws in the opening years.

Also it has been said that the giants of the early year, IE 400lb+ fighters fight better than they have any right to even though they have minimal stats. The reason for that is the game engine itself sees the size and weight difference between the two fighters and makes the huge fighter better.

[dubb93]

Rutten vs. Gracie II

It's time for the main event of the evening! 'El Guapo' Bas Rutten takes on Rickson Gracie in the UFC Openweight division.

This contest is for the UFC Superfight title.

The fight begins!

Rutten avoids a flurry of punches.

Rutten fires off a looping punch, but Rickson avoids it.

Rickson quickly gets in closer, looking to attack.

Rickson comes in with a couple of jabs, using them as cover so that he can shoot in.

Rickson is stopped by a good sprawl, and is pulled down to the ground in a loose front facelock until he is on his knees.

Rutten looks to unload with some big punches, but Rickson gets back to his feet before too many land.

Rutten steps back to avoid a jab.

Rutten avoids a flurry of punches.

Rickson tries for a series of strikes but Rutten moves out of range.

Rutten switches stances, throws a speculative punch, then switches right back again.

Not letting Rutten settle at all, Rickson comes in closer.

Rickson throws a couple of jabs as a set up, then shoots in for a takedown.

Rutten attempts to avoid Rickson as he shoots in.

The takedown doesn't work, Rutten saw it coming and got out of range.

Both fighters fire off strikes, neither produces any significant damage.

Rutten counters a wayward jab with a flurry of quick punches.

Rickson tries for a series of strikes but Rutten moves out of range.

Rutten avoids a straight right and hits a flurry of small strikes.

Rutten counters a jab by hitting a sharp body kick.

Rickson throws a couple of jabs, then chooses to shoot in on Rutten.

Rickson can't get the takedown, Rutten defended it well.

Rutten hits a barrage of big punches on Rickson, trapping him against the cage!

The referee pulls Rutten away, stopping the match!

Bas Rutten takes the victory by way of TKO!

Official Result: 'El Guapo' Bas Rutten defeats Rickson Gracie (TKO in 7:18 of round 1). The match was rated as being Good.

[dubb93]

As the data plays out a little bit here is the world pound for pound rankings for January 1997. These are according to the in game web site feature in my current save game.

1. Bas Rutten (10-1-0)
2. Rickson Gracie (6-1-0)
3. Ken Shamrock (11-4-0)
4. Mark Coleman (5-0-0)
5. Gary Goodridge (5-2-0)
6. Royce Gracie (10-4-0)
7. Akihiro Gono (3-0-0)
8. Dave Beneteau (4-2-0)
9. Jon Hess (7-4-0)
10. Oleg Taktarov (8-5-0)

Ken Shamrock has been improving by leaps and bounds over the last year. He's gone from a guy that was always the second best to a guy who will be the unquestioned pound for pound king by the end of 1997 unless someone else starts to improve across ALL stats. Shamrock went from an average wrestler/submission fighter to a guy that has trained his way to equal with Bas in the stand up stats, even better than Mark Coleman in the wrestling stats and even better than Royce Gracie in the submission stats. Needless to say he is on a huge winning streak going 6-0-0 in 1996. The only thing that can stop him is the debut of Randy Couture.

[Calis]

Glad to see Bas get the win over Rickson!

I played quite a bit last night and ended up veering quite a bit from history running cards pretty frequently and pretty quickly splitting into two weight classes. I also stopped doing the tourney format after about 6 events, only occassionally throwing a 4 man tourney together for newcomers or to quickly build up one of my debuting stars.

I wanted a chance to build up more stars before Pride debuts so I added the 2nd weight class. Royce was dominant in the lightweight division, and this gave us a chance to spotlight some other guys. The Heavyweight belt has been passed around a bit with Shamrock initially holding it, and then being injured for about a year and Bas ended up taking over.

Renzo Gracie was stuck in a weird spot demolishing everyone at lightweight, but a fight with a blood relative was out of the question so he ended up moving to Heavyweight where I gave him an immediate title shot. He ended up winning a really great match against Bas after nearly getting KO'ed several times. This left me with 2 Gracie champs, but that didn't last long as Murilo Bustamante ended up beating Royce in a grueling grappling match.

Dan Severn is on a tear having not lost yet and I think he is ready for a title shot. I think he will face Renzo next for the title. Shamrock is back now, and will get a title shot after a tune-up match.

I'm bringing Frank Shamrock along in the lightweight division. He is 4-0 now and he will probably be getting a shot soon(maybe immediately) as Bustamante doesn't have another clear fight.

I'm doing a lot of movement between weight classes also and depending on how Renzo/Royce fair we could end up seeing Renzo move back down to lightweight or leaving the company all together as his contract demands are skyrocketing. He has become the face of the UFC.

I never signed Rickson. I couldn't justify the costs. I'm losing money every card still, but am about to go into the positive I think. When I'm paying my guys $200 a fight for an 8 fight contract I couldn't swing for his $7500 per request. Now that a lot of my stars are through the initial contracts I have some tough decisions to make.

[Flasch186]

FWIW IMO the game definitely is missing 'flavor'. It feels like a glorified database to me.

[dubb93]

I'm actually to two weightclasses now myself. While my Middleweight (199lbs and under) doesn't have a face quite yet, Ken Shamrock is without a doubt the face of the MMA world and my Heavyweight champion. He absolutely destroyed Bas savagely in a fight that left no room for a rematch.

In my Middleweight division Vitor made his debut and cruised through the Middleweight tournament claiming the title, but lost his first defense by KO Igor Vovchanchyn.

Randy Couture has also debuted and he is undefeated in his UFC so far and on the world map as the #9 pound of pound in the world. Only a matter of time before he gets a shot at Shamrock in what should be my biggest fight since Bas vs. Rickson.

[Calis]

I can agree with that. It definitely is a game where you have to create your own goals. The financial aspect of it is minimal at best, so playing to try and be the top or the like is a pretty big letdown.

The way I enjoy it is picking certain fighters to "groom" and try to setup matches to develop them and make them stars. The rest is almost just sitting back and watching it unfold.

It is much more a Joe Silva simulator than a Dana/Lorenzo sim for instance.

I'd love to see someone else take a crack at an MMA sim and as I've said in the past I really want a lower level one where you maybe run a training camp. Picking guys, hiring coaches, setting up fights, planning training, corner advice, that stuff.

[Flasch186]

Honestly, the way it is now, Id prefer a FOF/TCY approach to the game since at least the form of the spreadsheet is more digestable than the glorified spread it is now with 'flavor' that just simply gets in the way IMO. It either needed to go fully one way (ie. FM) or the other (ie. TCY). Right now its stuck in the middle.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

Honestly, the way it is now, Id prefer a FOF/TCY approach to the game since at least the form of the spreadsheet is more digestable than the glorified spread it is now with 'flavor' that just simply gets in the way IMO. It either needed to go fully one way (ie. FM) or the other (ie. TCY). Right now its stuck in the middle.

I think this is a prime example of it's not the game we want, it's the game we got. The improvements from WAMMA 1 to this one IMHO were huge, so I think one day it could become the game we want.

WAMMA 1 was a glorified database all the way down to the predetermined nature of the fights. Instead of actually simulating the fight the engine picked a winner and vomited out one of its few "fight recaps."

WAMMA 2 has actually made huge progress for a second generation game IMHO.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Calis

It is much more a Joe Silva simulator than a Dana/Lorenzo sim for instance.

I think this is the best way to sum up the game and for this purpose it absolutely works.

[Calis]

I'm not sure if it is the flavor holding it back, but maybe so. I quite like the fake Sherdog front page with the news and info, but beyond that I think the inerface is extremely clicky. My major annoyance is having to delve through so many menus and back out when making fights or examining my roster. Everything seems a bit jumbled. That might be due to adding flavor though, but I tend to think it is more just general UI design.

I do agree that this 2nd version is exponentially better than the first game. I don't know how much room for growth it has to be honest, because Adam hasn't seemed to have made much in the way of progress with interfaces in a long time, so I'm not holding my breathe.

I'm definitely lenient on this game because of my interest in MMA and the lack of a competitor. It definitely doesn't have the ability of say an FM to bring in people who aren't already fans of the sport, but I enjoy it a bunch in spurts.

My biggest hatred in the game is contracts though to be honest. It feels like there is little to no negotation involved, and it is trial and error. It is generally tedious and the thing I dread doing. Maybe this is partly due to my lack of interest in the business side of the game, but it drives me crazy.

[dubb93]

PRIDE FC comes into the mod way too big. I edited them down to a realistic level. They are still the biggest promotion in the world thanks to a national following in Japan, but calling them the biggest promotion in the US and international in Japan is a little unrealistic me thinks.

I also split my game at this point. I copyed my save game and I now had 2 off the same data. One with UFC going forward. And one where I got the job at PRIDE and left UFC with more modern day settings, IE modern day rules and weight classes before I headed out the door.

[Calis]

Are you having luck with Pride actually doing anything? I moved down the popularity a good deal, especially outside of Japan but they appear to be just sitting around. I'm in January of '98 so they've been around a good 6 months, but their roster is sitting with about 5 guys. I've even been trying to not sign some guys who are solid but a bit pricey so they have more options but nothing much happening.

I'd like to see them put a card on and be a competitor sometime soon.

As for my game, I added a third weight division in 96 and I I think sometime soon I'll be adding a 4th. Currently my Heavyweight champ is Couture, who has basically ran through the competition. He is getting ready to meet Kevin Randleman in my next PPV though who was a former Champ who got caught against Tank and KO'ed. Other than that he has been unstoppable. In my oddest dominating fighter so far, Paul Varelans hold the record for title defenses and really went on a tear for a while cleaning out the division with wins over Igor, Severn, Bas, and Don Frye before falling to Randleman.

Middleweight division was dominated by Renzo Gracie(Currently ranked #1 Pound for Pound in the world). He has held both the Heavyweight and Middleweight title and is sitting at 13-1 with his only loss coming to Severn). Unfortunately I wasn't able to re-sign him and he sat in limbo for a while until finally signing with Pride. Since then the division has been ran by Frank Shamrock who is also 13-1(Only loss coming to Renzo). He hasn't had much trouble yet, but there's a new batch of competitors in the division including Tito, Wanderlei, Belfort, and Lindland who will be real tests.

The lightweight division is by far my weakest. I'm having a rough time building up main event matches with them so it has been almost relegated to a lower tier class. Royce Gracie won the title, but only defended once before losing it to Pat Miletich who is the current champion and looks to remain so for a while at least. I think his biggest threat is a young Mach Sakurai who is 3-0, but a couple wins away from contending. Igor Zinoviev and Akihiro Gono are currently the top contenders.

Overall I'm impressed with the results so far. It's closer to believable than I expected and much better than anything possible with the first game.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Calis

Are you having luck with Pride actually doing anything? I moved down the popularity a good deal, especially outside of Japan but they appear to be just sitting around. I'm in January of '98 so they've been around a good 6 months, but their roster is sitting with about 5 guys. I've even been trying to not sign some guys who are solid but a bit pricey so they have more options but nothing much happening.

I'd like to see them put a card on and be a competitor sometime soon.

As for my game, I added a third weight division in 96 and I I think sometime soon I'll be adding a 4th. Currently my Heavyweight champ is Couture, who has basically ran through the competition. He is getting ready to meet Kevin Randleman in my next PPV though who was a former Champ who got caught against Tank and KO'ed. Other than that he has been unstoppable. In my oddest dominating fighter so far, Paul Varelans hold the record for title defenses and really went on a tear for a while cleaning out the division with wins over Igor, Severn, Bas, and Don Frye before falling to Randleman.

Middleweight division was dominated by Renzo Gracie(Currently ranked #1 Pound for Pound in the world). He has held both the Heavyweight and Middleweight title and is sitting at 13-1 with his only loss coming to Severn). Unfortunately I wasn't able to re-sign him and he sat in limbo for a while until finally signing with Pride. Since then the division has been ran by Frank Shamrock who is also 13-1(Only loss coming to Renzo). He hasn't had much trouble yet, but there's a new batch of competitors in the division including Tito, Wanderlei, Belfort, and Lindland who will be real tests.

The lightweight division is by far my weakest. I'm having a rough time building up main event matches with them so it has been almost relegated to a lower tier class. Royce Gracie won the title, but only defended once before losing it to Pat Miletich who is the current champion and looks to remain so for a while at least. I think his biggest threat is a young Mach Sakurai who is 3-0, but a couple wins away from contending. Igor Zinoviev and Akihiro Gono are currently the top contenders.

Overall I'm impressed with the results so far. It's closer to believable than I expected and much better than anything possible with the first game.

Dump them no popularity outside of Japan and Asia. If you want them to have any pop in America is up to you.

A guy on the GDS forums said he had luck dumping them all the way down to regional in Japan. I would dump them to high regional on the verge of National in Japan and low regional in Asia. America is up to you but I would not put them above the UFC in America.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Dump them no popularity outside of Japan and Asia. If you want them to have any pop in America is up to you.

A guy on the GDS forums said he had luck dumping them all the way down to regional in Japan. I would dump them to high regional on the verge of National in Japan and low regional in Asia. America is up to you but I would not put them above the UFC in America.

I think part the problem also boils down to the fact that the guy admits he uploaded the wrong database so guys are debuting with 0 popularity and 0 reputation and the CPU is unwilling to sign them.

If PRIDE were a realistic level and guys were debuting with pop and rep I don't believe there would be any issue here.

[Calis]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Dump them no popularity outside of Japan and Asia. If you want them to have any pop in America is up to you.

A guy on the GDS forums said he had luck dumping them all the way down to regional in Japan. I would dump them to high regional on the verge of National in Japan and low regional in Asia. America is up to you but I would not put them above the UFC in America.

Think that's fixed it, thanks a bunch. Dropped them to unknown everywhere, and 90% regional in Japan/Asia, and almost regional in the U.S. and Europe just to make sure they had the upperhand on me. The next day they ended up signing an undefeated Tito Ortiz away from me, and it looks like they're on a signing rampage now. Should hopefully see a card form relatively soon.

I might end up starting over, seeing as how they're a year and a half late forming and there are a lot of guys that have been sitting inactive. I'll give it some time though and see what happens.

Glad to see he has an edit with the fighters having a basic level of popularity/reputation. I'm finding that to be pretty tough right now as no one is grabbing these guys up, so they end up just stagnating unless I sign them up and give them matches and then release them. Too much work for me, and too big of a roster. Maybe I can buy up a smaller promotion at some point and send guys down there to hopefully get some matches.

[dubb93]

OK so an update:

It seems that Dawn of MMA isn't going to be fixed anytime soon. I offered to fix it in an official capacity and Lucien Sanchez gave me the go ahead since he isn't able to fix it but wanted me to ask the Tap or Snap guys since he based his data off of theirs. Unfortunately the Tap or Snap guys told me all I can do is bug fixes, I can't touch the actual data itself(which is where alot of the issues are with promotion pop and fighter pop/rep). So I'm not working on it with handcuffs on and I wouldn't count on it being finished anytime soon by anyone else either.

[TLK]

Originally Posted by dubb93

OK so an update:

It seems that Dawn of MMA isn't going to be fixed anytime soon. I offered to fix it in an official capacity and Lucien Sanchez gave me the go ahead since he isn't able to fix it but wanted me to ask the Tap or Snap guys since he based his data off of theirs. Unfortunately the Tap or Snap guys told me all I can do is bug fixes, I can't touch the actual data itself(which is where alot of the issues are with promotion pop and fighter pop/rep). So I'm not working on it with handcuffs on and I wouldn't count on it being finished anytime soon by anyone else either.

How about you fix it and just give it to us.

[Calis]

I guess I've never worked that much on a mod so I have little room to talk but I can't help but roll my eyes at them sometime, especially when you're looking at a community as small as the one for WMMA. They'd rather it just sit there semi-broken, then take the chance of someone stealing some of their credit or tarnishing their mod.

Mostly I'm just annoyed because I think what you suggested is the biggest thing aggravating me with my mod and will probably be what stops me from using it. It's really messing with the other promotions and I'm far enough along that it doesn't make sense for me as the UFC to be signing these guy with no fights, but if I don't no one else will. I'm ending up with Pride having Main Events that feature guys who are 1-7 fighting for titles. It's a bit of a letdown. I have to sign guys, build them up and then release them in order for other stars to show up.

I'm still enjoying it by building up my own guys and doing some alternative history, but I think some rep/popularity changes would go a long ways towards helping this out. We've seen plenty of guys in real life with no past fights that have a reputation and popularity, and that should carry over.

I'm also too lazy to change them all myself.

Hopefully the other mod you mentioned will not have this issue, especially if they're adding a bunch of K-1 and Boxing types that didn't actually fight MMA. I want the potential for some freakshow Pride-style headliners.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Calis

I guess I've never worked that much on a mod so I have little room to talk but I can't help but roll my eyes at them sometime, especially when you're looking at a community as small as the one for WMMA. They'd rather it just sit there semi-broken, then take the chance of someone stealing some of their credit or tarnishing their mod.

*nods* fuck them...bunch of douchebags

[SirFozzie]

Let us know if there's anything we can do to help!

[Calis]

Looking at this a little more I almost wonder if just a flat-rate change to have introducing fighters start with say 5-10% Rep, and a couple percentages in popularity would do a lot more to get guys signed up. That's obviously not as accurate as real live, but it's a helluva lot easier to fix.

Too bad there wasn't a mass edit option in the editor. Changing all those at once, and then changing the specific guys would be nice(I'm thinking the guys that came into MMA with a lot of heat; Olympic Wrestlers, Judokans, ADCC or World BJJ winners, K-1 guys, stuff like that) These guys shouldn't be wasting away because no one will sign them, and they shouldn't start in the lowest tier promotion.

I don't know much on these stats though, so I don't know if this would have the effect needed or would throw off the balance. If I get motivated I might mess with it more. Nothing says we can't do it here and just not share it.

I've actually wanted to mess some with fighter tactics also as I don't think any of these mods touch those do they? I wonder how much effect they would have.

Anytime I think about spending time modding this though I think I should be working on my own MMA game instead, it's my get back into programming project I've been kicking around, but dedication is not my strong point.

[Voo]

Could you just make a handful of companies that start with no popularity to get them to sign the fighters that are debuting?

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Calis

Looking at this a little more I almost wonder if just a flat-rate change to have introducing fighters start with say 5-10% Rep, and a couple percentages in popularity would do a lot more to get guys signed up. That's obviously not as accurate as real live, but it's a helluva lot easier to fix.

Too bad there wasn't a mass edit option in the editor. Changing all those at once, and then changing the specific guys would be nice(I'm thinking the guys that came into MMA with a lot of heat; Olympic Wrestlers, Judokans, ADCC or World BJJ winners, K-1 guys, stuff like that) These guys shouldn't be wasting away because no one will sign them, and they shouldn't start in the lowest tier promotion.

I don't know much on these stats though, so I don't know if this would have the effect needed or would throw off the balance. If I get motivated I might mess with it more. Nothing says we can't do it here and just not share it.

I've actually wanted to mess some with fighter tactics also as I don't think any of these mods touch those do they? I wonder how much effect they would have.

Anytime I think about spending time modding this though I think I should be working on my own MMA game instead, it's my get back into programming project I've been kicking around, but dedication is not my strong point.

It was suggested by the mod maker that the intent was for every fighter to have between 10% and 50% regional popularity and 0-30% rep upon debut into the world. This would have been based on the fighters success IRL.(this is what I was going to do first in an attempt to fix this, although some people would come in with higher popularity assuming it would be warranted.)

Also all the companies need to have their popularity edited and scaled to a realistic level.

After that I think the camps are a huge issue. Something has to be done with them and I like what I am seeing from my fight camp file that I made by doing a google search on every fight camp in the game and making a best guess on the date the camp became active. Heck some of them were pretty clear and had websites with a date the camp was founded. Also some of the camps have no focus. I think every camp should have atleast one focus. And the Lion's Den needs to be added so there is an American fight camp open on day 1.

Then you have the misc. small errors that always crop up with a data set this large that have been reported and are easy fixes.

That is of course what I was going to do but that idea was of course nixed by the Tap of Snap team.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Voo

Could you just make a handful of companies that start with no popularity to get them to sign the fighters that are debuting?

I don't think so. The issue is the AI avoids people with no popularity like the plague. Those companies may sign guys up at the start, but would soon begin to increase their pop. This fix would be like a band-aid on severed limb, it may do something in the short term, but the end result is still going to be the same.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by dubb93

That is of course what I was going to do but that idea was of course nixed by the Tap of Snap team.

fuck them - what are they going to do if you mod their data? it's not like they can sue you or anything

[SirFozzie]

It's a shame.. as I said over there, before I got dragged into a flamewar with the guy behind the Tap or Snap project, something like this had the ability to revitalize the interest in a game a lot of us had put away. But as long as the creator's acting like his data comes down on stone tablets, there's not much chance of that happening.

[Flasch186]

<----disappointed with the game anyways.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

fuck them - what are they going to do if you mod their data? it's not like they can sue you or anything

Presumably it can lead to a forum ban, per this snazzy little thread from Ryland back in May 2008 (on the TEW subforum)

GDS Official Mod-Making Rules - Grey Dog Software

[jbergey22]

Mod makers run the show over there.

I havent played the mod so Im unclear on the actual problem but Im not sure why anyone wouldnt want help on a mod if it was offered.

Actually I do know, there are lots of huge egos over there

Is it a data issue or game mechanics issue? Adam has been great at taking suggestions and putting them in for this particular game. This was prior to the announcement of TEW10 though.

[Calis]

I actually don't blame him for that, I imagine he just didn't want to deal with the aftermath of a bunch of whiners arguing over who stole what from who. Easier to just go that route.

That community is among the worst I've run across for text sim games. It's pretty amazing. I try and never go there unless I'm looking for a mod.

Sure as hell doesn't effect us doing something and "releasing" it here instead.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Calis

I actually don't blame him for that, I imagine he just didn't want to deal with the aftermath of a bunch of whiners arguing over who stole what from who. Easier to just go that route.

That community is among the worst I've run across for text sim games. It's pretty amazing. I try and never go there unless I'm looking for a mod.

Sure as hell doesn't effect us doing something and "releasing" it here instead.

Is it that big promotions wont sign new fighters because they(the fighters) dont have any popularity? Is that the main problem?