Alex Smith

[Sun Tzu]

[Spree]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

I will call your Alex Smith and raise you Joey Harrington.

I'm all in with Ryan Leaf.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Anthony

hi douche. trying learning to comprehend what you read. his statement was that for every franchise QB that goes to another team and succeeds - there are far more who won't. thus, using QBs who were "the man" on a previous team doesn't ensure future success. that's what he's saying, and he's incorrect.

as far as the "for every guy that succeeds there's 20 that fail", i hope you get a job with that amazing analysis and surprising revelation. you mean more QBs will not make it in the NFL than guys that do??? astounding!!! did you want to tell me something about Lance Bass that we may not already know?

He's not saying that at all. Your reading skills mirror that of a three year old.

Alex Smith isn't a franchise QB. The team WANTS him to be a franchise QB, but he hasn't lived up to the hype. He's NOT the MAN on his team. And the point QS is making is that he'll likely never be the man.

The fact you pointed it out like that makes most of your other comments asinine. Rich Gannon was never meant to be the Man on the Vikings for example. He was nothing more than a functional QB project with a weak arm. They were already making plans to have Sean Salisbury start when Gannon tore his rotator cuff and was released. (Really sounds like being the man there, doesn't it? I mean, he was about to lose his job to Sean Salisbury. I guess Salisbury was THE MAN too, huh?)

So QS's point stll stands and is still correct. For all of the guys you mention as recovering from a horrible two or three year start, very few ever make it big with someone else. Most, like Heath Schuler or Akili Smith really are what they are. (that'd be horrible NFL QB's) Is Alex Smith that way? What he does this year will go a long way to determining that, but the numbers don't look good at all now.

His comments were never about someone who was actually a functional QB who just didn't live up to the hype. His comments were more about garbage QB's continuing to be garbage QB's no matter what the people trying to justify reasons for their slow development want to believe.

[chesapeake]

The 49ers have very likely ruined a guy with good talent. In a stable situation surrounded by average NFL talent, maybe Smith succeeds, maybe he doesn't. But in the cesspool that the SF 49ers have become, we'll never know. I'm not sure even an Aikman or Manning (your choice) could have succeeded with the revolving door approach to coaching they have there.

At this point in his career, busting out a big season for SF seems highly unlikely. He probably will get picked up by someone. Maybe he'll be one of those guys that gets to sit as a backup for a couple of years, have time to master a system, and then restart a career when the starter goes down.

And maybe he'll always suck. I hope not.

[Logan]

Can't really blame the "revolving door" when bringing in Norv Turner brought the best out of Smith and he started making real progress, and Turner took a promotion which caused Smith to regress.

[Vince]

I'm aware that I'm a fanboy to the hilt...but I really think what Logan says is the truth...the revolving door at Offensive Coordinator has killed him.

I sadly don't think he'll ever make it in San Francisco - unless he has a flat-out amazing year this season (I'm talking MVP type numbers), people are going to be disappointed in him and will be calling for a change.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Both of these guys were picked in the top ten of the draft, by teams that intended to make them franchise quarterbacks. Did either of them, by any reasonable estimation, really overcome the bust label and demonstrate that they were really worthy of being a "franchise QB" selection?

By the way -- yes, I am aware that Trent Dilfer has a SB ring, I think it's been pretty well documented, top to bottom, what happened with that team.

I'm not trying to say it's impossible, nor that it never happens... but I think for every high pick who gets a second and third chance for these reasons and actually really works out, there are probably five more who really are the busts they appear to be.

My argument is less that they weren't franchise QB's and more that giving them a 2nd/3rd chance wasn't a bad idea, and that there is a level between bust and franchise QB. There aren't that many "franchise QB's" in the NFL, 11 at best by my count (Brady, P. Manning, Favre, Romo, Palmer, Brees, McNair, McNabb, Roethlisberger, Hasselbeck and maybe Rivers)* less than one coming in per year. That leaves 20+ teams searching for an adequate starter. Getting a Trent Dilfer or Vinny Testaverde isn't a bad thing, and merely being a competent NFL starter means you weren't a bust in my eyes. (TroyF assertions aside, Trent Dilfer was a good QB 97-99 in TB, 2000 with BAL and did well as SEA's backup the next couple years.) Even Joey Harrington was a top-20 QB last year by the stats at FO. I still think there's a great argument against drafting a QB 1st-round, partly for cap reasons, but partly because you just aren't likely to draft a franchise QB.

It's also interesting that out of the top 10 picks that turned into franchise QB's, 2 struggled mightily early on, McNabb's rookie season being one of the worst of the past decade and McNair muddling in mediocrity for a good number of years. 3 more sat out their first year+ while only one was thrown into the fire as a rookie and survived (2 if we include Drew Bledsoe, who could still be starting in the league.) Meanwhile, a number of QB's that started strong wound up killing their team for a couple years just as much - Kerry Collins, Pennington, Culpepper.

* - If you're wondering where Eli Manning is, he's not a good QB, at least yet. He's been 2/4/1 in INT's and hasn't been in the top 30 Y/A his 3 years as a starter.

Originally Posted by Anthony

back in '98 if you were Bill Polian you could've flipped a coin to determine whether to taken Manning or Leaf #1 overall.

I've seen interviews with Polian where he basically laughed at the suggestion he was ever considering Leaf over Manning. It's easy to say in hindsight, but I'm pretty sure from Manning's freshman year on he was regarded as the surest bet to be a franchise QB in years, possibly ever.

[Spree]

Originally Posted by Vince

I'm aware that I'm a fanboy to the hilt...but I really think what Logan says is the truth...the revolving door at Offensive Coordinator has killed him.

I sadly don't think he'll ever make it in San Francisco - unless he has a flat-out amazing year this season (I'm talking MVP type numbers), people are going to be disappointed in him and will be calling for a change.

If he carries the team to the playoffs with decent numbers, I see no reason why 49er fans would be calling for his head.

[Vince]

Well, I'm trying to temper my expectations this season, and I really think that the playoffs are a stretch.

[Bad-example]

I don't know how long it will last, but J.T. O'Sullivan is currently the 49ers starter halfway through the exhibition season. I don't think anyone expected the dark horse to be leading the pack at this point.

[stevew]

I'm about ready to claim victory in the Darko Milicek is a bust thread, I was wondering if I could just do a two-fer and claim victory here as well.

[Cringer]

Another Brett Favre backup FTW. They seem to make their way around the league, good or bad.

[albionmoonlight]

If J.T. O'Sullivan starts this season, then that would mean that Jim Haslet kept three starting-level QBs (Delhomme, Bulger, O'Sullivan) on the bench so that Aaron Brooks could keep starting for the Saints.

[Cringer]

I wouldn't put O'Sullivan in the class of Delhomme and Bulger yet even if he starts, and I don't even have those two guys in a high class.

[DeToxRox]

O'Sullivan is atrocious. Even if he was on the Lions, he couldn't get the ball to Roy or Calvin when he had the time. He is a Martz project that he wants to showcase as his "I am still a guru, just look!" persona.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Cringer

Another Brett Favre backup FTW. They seem to make their way around the league, good or bad.

Favre is now demanding a trade to San Fran so he can bury the kid, then leave again.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

O'Sullivan is atrocious. Even if he was on the Lions, he couldn't get the ball to Roy or Calvin when he had the time. He is a Martz project that he wants to showcase as his "I am still a guru, just look!" persona.

DeTox is wise. O'Sullivan is awful.

How bad is J.T. O'Sullivan, you ask?

J.T. O'Sullivan is so bad that The Hand of God descended upon Ford Field and healed Jon Kitna's concussion because God, Himself, couldn't handle watching O'Sullivan play anymore.

He's a creature of Martz (O'Sullivan, not the Almighty). Good luck with that!

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

DeTox is wise. O'Sullivan is awful.

How bad is J.T. O'Sullivan, you ask?

J.T. O'Sullivan is so bad that The Hand of God descended upon Ford Field and healed Jon Kitna's concussion because God, Himself, couldn't handle watching O'Sullivan play anymore.

He's a creature of Martz (O'Sullivan, not the Almighty). Good luck with that!

Well said.

Martz is licking his lips, waiting for Nolan to be shit canned so he can do whatever it takes to be back as a head coach in the NFL.

[Huckleberry]

O'Sullivan has been named the Week 1 starter.

[B & B]

*trips into the guestroom





We have the facts and we're voting YES>

[stevew]

ESPN - Niners QB Smith has broken shoulder, won't play this season - NFL

Niners QB Smith has broken shoulder, won't play this season

I can't wait till they fire the "Suit of Failure" as well.

[Bad-example]

One more chance for Smith to prove he can QB the 49ers.

[RedKingGold]

He looked really good on Sunday and I think the coaching staff is finally starting to call plays he's comfortable with. Also, it helps that VD and Crabtree look like legit offensive weapons. So long as Gore is healthy, this is not only Smith's last chance to make it but also his best.

[stevew]

I'm just glad the Niners are respectable again. It was bad seeing how far they had fallen.

Smith may be somewhat successful in a shotgun type atmosphere. But I think that will neutralize Gore. Who still is their best offensive player. Maybe they can get him a lot of screen looks.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Originally Posted by stevew

I'm just glad the Niners are respectable again. It was bad seeing how far they had fallen.

Smith may be somewhat successful in a shotgun type atmosphere. But I think that will neutralize Gore. Who still is their best offensive player. Maybe they can get him a lot of screen looks.

I actually think the opposite. Teams have been dumping 8 players in the box because they know Hill couldn't throw over the top of them. Smith can, and if they spread the field with 3 WR sets + Davis, I think it will give Gore more room to run. Say what you will about Alex Smith, but he can stretch the field far better than Shaun Hill ever could.

It would also be nice if the OL would remember how to block consistently.

[Karlifornia]

I hope people can curb their impatience if the 49ers get pulverized in Indy this Sunday. Both of my fantasy QB's (Brady and Palmer) were on bye this week, and I toyed with the idea of picking up Smith off the wire, but remembered they were playing the Colts and thought better of it.

I still hope he pans out, just so I can point and laugh at Detox.

[stevew]

I was speaking more specifically about running out of the shotgun formation.

I didn't get to see the game on Sunday but I would be shocked if he took many conventional snap looks.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by stevew

I was speaking more specifically about running out of the shotgun formation.

I didn't get to see the game on Sunday but I would be shocked if he took many conventional snap looks.

Don't forget that the Niners were down 21-0 when Smith came into the game. I would have to imagine they'll start the game with some focus on the run..but who knows?

[Vince, Pt. II]

I worry HUGELY about the pass rush. They've got Rachal and Snyder both starting on the right side, and the Offensive Line is going to be absolutely destroyed by Freeney and Mathis. I'd imagine the Colts won't even have to blitz, so they'll be able to leave 7 in coverage, and that the 49ers are going to have a VERY hard time all game long.

Sigh.

[DeToxRox]

And that's a wrap.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

And that's a wrap.

Considering they could go back to him, it's not 100%. But really, I don't think he really has a chance at being a starter anywhere at this point. He's just a temp fill in for the next guy at best.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Considering they could go back to him, it's not 100%. But really, I don't think he really has a chance at being a starter anywhere at this point. He's just a temp fill in for the next guy at best.

I would not go that far. I could see him landing in Washington, Tennessee, Minnesota, Arizona and Seattle all come to mind as teams with whom he could at least compete for a starting job.

[RedKingGold]

I'm a believer again.

Seriously, would you rather have Smith or Mike Vick right now?

[RedKingGold]

By the way, a lot of banned users have posted in this thread. Quite comical reading it back.

[booradley]

"Hi Douche" was pretty much the comment that made this thread. Just sayin ...

[SteveMax58]

Wow...unbelievable to think the conversation on Alex Smith has been going on for this long. I mean... if pressed for the year he was drafted, I would probably get it after a little thought but hard to believe this was 6+ years ago.

[jbergey22]

While I think Smith was dicked around with much of his career I think Harbaugh is a master at handeling qbs. His former QB is going to be the #1 overall pick and now it appears he has given Smith the confidence to become a reliable qb.

I put much of this on Harbaugh.

[stevew]

Alex Smith hasn't blown a playoff game, yet. At least he has that going.

[Dutch]

You have to blame Jim Harbaugh for the realization of 1.1 Alex Smith. Mike Singletary's googly eyed approach to coaching couldn't crack the code...but apparently knowing a little something about NFL offenses has the right effect.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Dutch

You have to blame Jim Harbaugh for the realization of 1.1 Alex Smith. Mike Singletary's googly eyed approach to coaching couldn't crack the code...but apparently knowing a little something about NFL offenses has the right effect.

Harbaugh is genius.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Harbaugh is genius.

Or at least antidope.

[dave731]

Harbaugh puts Alex Smith in Room 23 while images of Montana and Young cycle through with messages like "YOU ARE AN ELITE QUARTERBACK"

It appears to be having the desired effect! I will take 8-1!!

[lcjjdnh]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Harbaugh is genius.

Interesting piece on the adjustments he's made:
Chris Brown on the success of the 49ers and Alex Smith - Grantland

[Barkeep49]

That Grantland piece is really good reading and I definitely recommend it.

I think that Smith is in the Trent Dilfer category meaning that he's a good enough QB not to lose a Super Bowl, but the 49'ers defense and running game aren't (unfortunately) good enough to win one. And I never would have thought Smith would reach that level.

[AgustusM]

I love Harbaugh and as a life long Niner fan had been hoping he would get the job after seeing what he was able to do at Stanford.

I also really enjoy the smartfootball website and read it every week.

But this article seemed to imply that Harbugh invented the "hot" route concept, which is nonsense. It has been around forever - hell we have used in our high school blocking schemes for the past decade.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by AgustusM

But this article seemed to imply that Harbugh invented the "hot" route concept, which is nonsense. It has been around forever - hell we have used in our high school blocking schemes for the past decade.

I believe that is sort of the point they are making, only in reverse : Harbough was willing to implement sth so basic that has a relatively low complexity in a league where the consensus is that you need to make things more complex rather than more basic to win.

They aren´t lauding him for inventing it, they are lauding him for using it at the highest level.

[RainMaker]

I seriously can't believe that he has turned them into an 8-1 team without any of the offseason stuff. Is there any doubt he wins Coach of the Year?

[AgustusM]

Originally Posted by whomario

I believe that is sort of the point they are making, only in reverse : Harbough was willing to implement sth so basic that has a relatively low complexity in a league where the consensus is that you need to make things more complex rather than more basic to win.

They aren´t lauding him for inventing it, they are lauding him for using it at the highest level.

got it, that wasn't what I got when I read it, but that makes perfect sense.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I think that Smith is in the Trent Dilfer category meaning that he's a good enough QB not to lose a Super Bowl, but the 49'ers defense and running game aren't (unfortunately) good enough to win one. And I never would have thought Smith would reach that level.

Well I have to say that Smith won us a game tonight. I am astounded that he made the plays he made. It actually gives me hope that we might be able to exploit a weak GB defense.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Well I have to say that Smith won us a game tonight. I am astounded that he made the plays he made. It actually gives me hope that we might be able to exploit a weak GB defense.

Green Bay's defense isn't weak so much as overly aggressive sometimes. It's essentially the same personnel, with the primary exception of Nick Collins, that was so stalwart for them last year.

The thing this year is they've gotten aggressive about trying to force turnovers. When it works, Aaron Rodgers gives the opponents long faces to go with their long day.

When it doesn't...things get interesting.

That's the key, assuming Green Bay survives the rematch with the Giants (the first time around was plenty 'interesting' for me, thanks). If Smith and the 49ers have the turnover issues that plagued the Saints today, it'll be over by halftime. If they can protect the football, it takes a lot of pressure off the 49er defense, and becomes a much tighter game.