2005-06 Soccer Thread

[TazFTW]

San Jose Earthquakes move to Houston.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/st...352315&cc=5901

[moriarty]

LIverpool is in the finals of the Fifa World Club Championships (yawn). Could be an interesting final against a Brazilian squad though. Talk about different styles of play.

[Critch]

Scottish Cup - Clyde 2-1 Celtic. Woohoo!!

Clyde have been on the verge of bankruptcy for a while and haven't been in the top division in over 30 years. They only had 3 players going into this season so built the rest of the squad from young players released by other teams and players picked up from open try outs. Celtic on the other hand are one of the two big teams in Scotland, are big budget, full of international players, and were unveiling new signing Roy Keane.

But in one of those great cup upset days Clyde overcame having two good goals disallowed and missed a penalty and still managed to pull out the shock win.

I wasn't going to bother paying for the Burton Albion v Manchester United game on ppv as it'll be a walk over, but if Clyde can beat Celtic maybe I should break out my $15 and cheer on Burton Albion too

[Desnudo]

FA Cup: Burton Albion 0 - Man U 0.

[AlexB]

And the mighty Foxes are one of two teams to defeat Premier opposition, coming back from 2 down to beat Spurs 3-2! De Vries scores the winner in injury time -

Levein (our manager) had said that if we win we can get a few new players, which we desperately need as we're only 1 place off the relegation zone in the Championship - we need a left back, a striker and a right winger at the very least...

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Critch

Scottish Cup - Clyde 2-1 Celtic. Woohoo!!

Clyde have been on the verge of bankruptcy for a while and haven't been in the top division in over 30 years. They only had 3 players going into this season so built the rest of the squad from young players released by other teams and players picked up from open try outs. Celtic on the other hand are one of the two big teams in Scotland, are big budget, full of international players, and were unveiling new signing Roy Keane.

But in one of those great cup upset days Clyde overcame having two good goals disallowed and missed a penalty and still managed to pull out the shock win.

I wasn't going to bother paying for the Burton Albion v Manchester United game on ppv as it'll be a walk over, but if Clyde can beat Celtic maybe I should break out my $15 and cheer on Burton Albion too

So, alre Celtic and Rangers brushing up the image of Scottish football this season by letting other teams win the silverware for a change? Smart decission.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

And the mighty Foxes are one of two teams to defeat Premier opposition, coming back from 2 down to beat Spurs 3-2! De Vries scores the winner in injury time -

Someone has been trying to impress Martin Jol so he can team up with Edgar Davids for real games in the future, in stead of charity games.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

So, alre Celtic and Rangers brushing up the image of Scottish football this season by letting other teams win the silverware for a change? Smart decission.

No, because Celtic are till going to win the league and Rangers will still win the Cup

It has been a bit more competitive this season, but I think that's more to do with bad Rangers and Celtic teams than it has to do with a general rise in quality from the rest.

[BreizhManu]

Poll for the world best goalkeeper

The World's best Goalkeeper 2005
Welt-Torhüter 2005
El Mejor Portero del Mundo 2005
Meilleur Gardien de But du Monde 200
by IFFHS

hxxp://www.iffhs.de/?e4380bfd300bf17420d87452db2d0ae43110f32d00e41504e52d

wohoo with Cech and Isaksson that makes 2 players (or ex players) from Rennes

[Northwood_DK]

Im a bit suprised to find players like Fabien Barthez, Oliver Kahn and Víctor Valdés on the list.

Barthez and Oliver Kahn is way over their peaks and Valdés is lucky to play on a very good team.

[BreizhManu]

I agree, they don't belong to that list (well kahn does but not that high anymore) but since it comes from a vote...

[bhlloy]

Yep, you also would have thought Paul Robinson would have found his way onto that list somehow. He's been outstanding for the past two years.

[daedalus]

The perils of toiling for Spurs.

[bhlloy]

Another thing I noticed was interesting but I was at work and shouldn't have been surfing the net is Jerzy Dudek well ahead of Bepe Reina. a) obviously not according to Rafa Benitez and b) it's amazing what a couple of penalty saves will do for you, even when you've been playing like crap all year

All in all, not a very reliable poll methinks

[Desnudo]

Rossi scores two in Man U's win. Granted not the best competition, but not too shabby. Now that he's starting to see limited first team action, and by all accounts is performing well, should the US add him to the shortlist? I can see an argument for finding a way to get him a CAP in the next WC.

[ISiddiqui]

IIRC, Rossi has already said he is holding out for the Italian team. He won't accept a cap by the US unless he is much older and Italy has said never.

[Desnudo]

He also said if the US makes an offer to call him up for this WC, it would be hard to turn down.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

He also said if the US makes an offer to call him up for this WC, it would be hard to turn down.

Hard, but not impossible... and with his potential, he'll probably wait. After all, he was one of Italy's U-19.

[Desnudo]

Sure, but he'll have to be realistic about his chances of making the Italian team. They have a lot of native talent at his position

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Sure, but he'll have to be realistic about his chances of making the Italian team. They have a lot of native talent at his position

Yet he is considered to be one of the best (if not the best) young player at that position for the Azzuri.

[Desnudo]

Iaquinta, Gilardino, Cassano - all basically locks to be the starting strikers for WC 2010. So realistically, Rossi is looking at WC 2014 before he might break into the starting line-up. That assumes that he beats out the other up and coming Italian talent who are mostly playing at home.

[Katon]

Given the Italian national team's persistent refusal to select anyone playing abroad, he's not looking too good at the moment.

[Crapshoot]

Well, Italy will give Cassano a shot - what with his move to Madrid and all. And Panucci and Zola both got their shots (well, I'm not certain about Zola) while playing outside the Serie A.

[Katon]

Nope. Zola got more of a shot at the team when he was playing for Cagliari at nearly forty than he ever did with Chelsea. And Carlo Cudicini, while he certainly shouldn't have started over Buffon, never even made the squad in spite of being probably the best keeper in the Premiership and playing regularly in Europe. Panucci I will grant you, but the only remotely competent Italian right-back at the time was Zambrotta - who, of course, was busy starting on the left. Given even slightly useful alternatives, Italy doesn't like selecting players outside Serie A.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Katon

Given the Italian national team's persistent refusal to select anyone playing abroad, he's not looking too good at the moment.

He doesn't have to play for ManU forever . He hasn't in the past. He could always return to Serie A, and probably will.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Rossi scores two in Man U's win. Granted not the best competition, but not too shabby. Now that he's starting to see limited first team action, and by all accounts is performing well, should the US add him to the shortlist? I can see an argument for finding a way to get him a CAP in the next WC.

The US probably won't win the WC, but this thing only comes around once every 4 years. I can't see any argument for wasting a cap on a player who probably won't help you just so you can keep him for 2 or 3 future cups, where his presence may or may not make a difference. Actually, playing him in anything besides a 2-0 game could end up costing you points, so what would be a good argument for throwing him out there?

And I'm thinking the same thing about Adu here. But I think the US has a much lower chance of losing Adu than they do Rossi. If Rossi is only going to play for the US as his "safety", then would we really want him on the roster when we're in the same group as Italy?

[AlexB]

Marcus Hahneman is having an absolute stormer tonight for Reading against Palace: OK he gave away a penalty, but Andy Johnson would threaten the world long jump record if he was allowed to attempt his jump from just inside the penalty box - he has made a number of fantastic single and multiple saves...

Bobby Convey on the other hand...

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

The US probably won't win the WC, but this thing only comes around once every 4 years. I can't see any argument for wasting a cap on a player who probably won't help you just so you can keep him for 2 or 3 future cups, where his presence may or may not make a difference. Actually, playing him in anything besides a 2-0 game could end up costing you points, so what would be a good argument for throwing him out there?

And I'm thinking the same thing about Adu here. But I think the US has a much lower chance of losing Adu than they do Rossi. If Rossi is only going to play for the US as his "safety", then would we really want him on the roster when we're in the same group as Italy?

Adu and Rossi are in different situations. And there is always some dregs on the roster that could easily be replaced. Rossi is seeing some first team action for Man U and according to reports has been excellent, including a potential for goal of the season. Adu younger and much rawer. If Rossi continues to see playing time at Man U I see no reason not to call him up. And there are plenty of players on the US squad capable of costing the US points, hence the reason for calling him up.

[AlexB]

Wow

This is a first for me - fans of a country in the world's top ten clamouring for a striker to be included in a WC squad after scoring two goals at home against a team not even in the league structure...

[DaddyTorgo]

rossi can rot. i hope arena refuses to give in to his quasi-blackmail and doesn't even dial his number. if he doesn't want to play for us then why should we want him to play for us so badly that we in essence beg?? we're better than that. screw that.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

Wow

This is a first for me - fans of a country in the world's top ten clamouring for a striker to be included in a WC squad after scoring two goals at home against a team not even in the league structure...

He's also been coming off the bench in EPL matches.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

He's also been coming off the bench in EPL matches.

He has played 47 minutes in the EPL this year, and has one goal.

Yes he could well be a great player, and is rumoured to be the best of the young Man Utd players along with the defender Pique, but come on - in the world cup thread many were arguing the case for the US being deservedly in the top 10 in the world: if this were the case a young kid who has played the equivalent only just over half a game in the EPL would not be considered for a WC spot.

Two examples spring to mind that may be the exception to this: Ronaldo was in the Brazil WC squad at 17, and Rooney played for England when he had made very few league appearances - nobody is saying Rossi is the same prodigy as Rooney/Ronaldo: seriously, unless Rossi comes in and plays an important part for Utd for the rest of the year this argument is a non starter.

Anybody that deserves a WC spot for a top 10 ranked country should at the absolute minimum be able to force himself above Louis Saha in the Utd squad. (Not that Saha is a bad player, we're just talking a high level here)

[Desnudo]

Rossi on the bench again for the Liverpool match. When Saha gets his inevitable injury, Rossi will see some time. I also count getting picked for the Man U line-up, even as a bench player, as being a pretty big accomplishment at that age. Yes the US is a "Top 10" nation according to FIFA, but realistically, look where most of the players are coming from. Not a whole lot playing in the top 3 leagues that aren't goalkeepers.

As for the "his first choice is Italy" argument, I've come around to the fact that I think he would be invaluable to the US and therefore should be offered a chance (already was for the Scotland friendly, so Arena obviously sees something too). He will be technically and creatively miles ahead than any other US player, except maybe Beasley, from first playing in Italy and now for Man U.

Honestly if there were more players, say Brazillians for example, that didn't have a realistic shot at playing for their national team and brought something the US team lacks, flair and creativity, I say suck up the national pride and let them play. This isn't a sport like basketball where we get to pick and choose from the best in the world. If anything, having a player like Rossi on the team could serve as a catalyst to focus more attention on the technical side of the game.

[TazFTW]

Sven will leave England after the World Cup.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/st...356198&cc=5901

I don't follow soccer closely so I had no idea what

It follows successive weekends of damaging revelations in the News of the World, who duped Eriksson and his advisers into believing an undercover reporter was a rich Arab sheikh who wanted to give the Swede a new job.

was talking about.

Looking it up I found this, http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns...rldcup&cc=5901

A "sting" operation on a soccer manager? There's nothing else to report about?

[SirFozzie]

The paper that did it is notorious for that kinda stuff..

Footy is life over there.. one of their managers once said "football isn't a matter of life and death, it's more important then that"

The tabloids over there are notorious for that kinda thing.. oh yeah.. that and running pictures of topless women in the daily paper.

[Mac Howard]

England have the best squad they've had for a long, long time and have a real chance of reaching the later stages of the World Cup. What they didn't need was a trashy tabloid undermining the morale of the squad in order to sell a few more copies of its shabby rag

[Katon]

And the tabloids complain about SVEN hurting England's World Cup chances. Not that he's a great manager, but the alternatives are abysmal. There are only three remotely competent English managers in the Premiership at the moment: Sam Allardyce (would really suffer from not being able to bring in cheap Africans), Paul Jewell (more than one season managing successfully in the top flight, please), and Stuart Pearce (more than one season managing, please). Another foreigner, and you get the same how-can-our-national-team-not-be-managed-by-a-proper-Englishman junk from the tabloids.

[AlexB]

I think you could add Alan Curbishley to that list (Charlton) - yes he's had a rough period recently but he's done fantastically there for decade. Curbs deserves to be highlighted in the above, but as England manager though? Probably not.

[MIJB#19]

News around two Americans in the Dutch soccer league:

* Cory Gibbs is allowed to leave Feyenoord transfer free. After having missed the first half of the 2005/2006 season due to injuries, Gibbs is no longer a potential starter, or even a benchwarmer.

* Michael Bradley joins SC Heerenveen. Appraently he's a 18-year old MetroStars starter on their midfield. Any additional text by someone who follows the MLS, especially the MetroStars, to give me some input on Bradley? For example what kind of position he plays and what his skills are?

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Katon

And the tabloids complain about SVEN hurting England's World Cup chances. Not that he's a great manager, but the alternatives are abysmal. There are only three remotely competent English managers in the Premiership at the moment: Sam Allardyce (would really suffer from not being able to bring in cheap Africans), Paul Jewell (more than one season managing successfully in the top flight, please), and Stuart Pearce (more than one season managing, please). Another foreigner, and you get the same how-can-our-national-team-not-be-managed-by-a-proper-Englishman junk from the tabloids.

I think you have to bear in mind that international management is not quite like club management - there are quite a few guys who have done very nicely with minimal club experience. International management seems to be way more about motivation and getting players behind the cause - see Mark Hughes as the Wales manager who did an incredible job with a poor squad despite being a complete rookie.

For whatever reason (I agree with you about the tabloid junk, but the attitude is there among the common fan as well), I don't think a foreign manager is going to have huge success with the England job.

I'm not English but I would love to see Stuart Pearce get the job with somebody more experienced as an advisor - bring back Bobby Robson

Jari is right - Alan Curbishley is an incredible manager when you look at what he's done with Charlton over the last 5-10 years. I think he would do well also.

Sam Allardyce would be a disaster IMO, but not for the reason you listed. He's a long ball, physical kind of manager, which would be a completely disasterous move given England's talent (especially in the midfield) and lack of a decent target man. Unless England fans want to see more of Kevin Davies in the national team

[Katon]

Curbishley's stagnated at Charlton the last couple of seasons. Very impressive before that, certainly, but they've been stuck at the same level for a while now while teams with no more financial muscle (Bolton, Everton) have moved past them. In particular, the way the entire team always seems to start its summer vacation a month early doesn't speak well for his motivational skills. Probably should have been on my list, as he's certainly remotely competent, but not a good candidate for the job.

International management may involve motivation more than club management, but that doesn't mean you can ignore tactics. Just look at how Kevin Keegan worked out. Neither Pearce nor Jewell has any real experience dealing with Continental football, and they haven't got enough of a track record at the top level to know what they can do besides motivate (though David James up front was certainly imaginative).

I think Allardyce is more tactically flexible than you're giving him credit for - compared to Martin O'Neill, who some lunatics have actually been proposing as a serious candidate, his teams are a joy to watch - but I'm not sure we're really disagreeing. Let me rephrase my objection: Allardyce's most impressive skill is his ability to find cheap foreign talent that fits his preferred style and that's completely useless in the international game.

[Desnudo]

Is there any reason why it must be an Englishman? Why not just hire Mourinho part-time? He's already in London.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Katon

Curbishley's stagnated at Charlton the last couple of seasons. Very impressive before that, certainly, but they've been stuck at the same level for a while now while teams with no more financial muscle (Bolton, Everton) have moved past them. In particular, the way the entire team always seems to start its summer vacation a month early doesn't speak well for his motivational skills. Probably should have been on my list, as he's certainly remotely competent, but not a good candidate for the job.

International management may involve motivation more than club management, but that doesn't mean you can ignore tactics. Just look at how Kevin Keegan worked out. Neither Pearce nor Jewell has any real experience dealing with Continental football, and they haven't got enough of a track record at the top level to know what they can do besides motivate (though David James up front was certainly imaginative).

I think Allardyce is more tactically flexible than you're giving him credit for - compared to Martin O'Neill, who some lunatics have actually been proposing as a serious candidate, his teams are a joy to watch - but I'm not sure we're really disagreeing. Let me rephrase my objection: Allardyce's most impressive skill is his ability to find cheap foreign talent that fits his preferred style and that's completely useless in the international game.

Very well thought out post... I agree that you definitely can't discount tactics. Which is why I'd love to see Pearce with someone like Robson or Venables. I think you need a balance of the two - Eriksson's failing (real or imagined) is that he doesn't do enough to motivate the players and he doesn't really care.

Going back to Wales as an example, Toshack has an incredible pedigree and experience, but a lot of our more experienced players won't play for him. The right kind of manager needs the attitude and the tactical knowledge to succeed - way more than in club football. Add in the fact that it is inherently harder for a foreign manager to motivate players and get the country behind them - I think the FA would be crazy to appoint a foreign manager again.

The one exception I would make would be Mourinho. An incredible manager who players on the whole would die to play for. If the FA could get him that would be a huge coup, but I can't imagine him wanting the job given the history.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Katon

I think Allardyce is more tactically flexible than you're giving him credit for - compared to Martin O'Neill, who some lunatics have actually been proposing as a serious candidate, his teams are a joy to watch - but I'm not sure we're really disagreeing. Let me rephrase my objection: Allardyce's most impressive skill is his ability to find cheap foreign talent that fits his preferred style and that's completely useless in the international game.

Wtf? Watching Bolton games is less boring than it used to be, but paint drying still gives it a run for it's money (OK I'm exaggerating, but they are in no way shape or form 'a joy to watch')

O'Neill got criticised at Celtic for the playing style, but as a Leciester fan, once he got the team stabilised, we played some great stuff. And the one game where we had the team he was building to, we destroyed Sunderland 5-2 with possibly the best performance I have ever seen from a Leicester side. I don't know about Celtic, and obviously they are a different beast, but his Leicester side played good stuff once we were consolidated in the PL.

If things had turned out differently (i.e. Collymore had not been the English version of TO, Eadie had not been injured, Heskey had not been sold) O'Neill firmly believed this side would have pushed for a Champions League spot.

Flowers, Sinclair, Taggart, Guppy, Savage, Elliott, Izzet, Lennon, Eadie, Collymore, Heskey.

And it might not be as far fetched as it might sound: the previous 4 years we were one of only five sides to win a trophy (EPL/FAC/LC - we won the LC twice), and one of only five sides to finish top half all 4 seasons.

(Great days as a Leicester fan, but oh how it has changed now... )

He will not manage England - his wife is still ill - but if it's motivation that you want, there's none better

[AlexB]

Dola - just seen your 'compared to'...

You obviously weren;t saying Allardyce's sides are like watching Brazil - apologies. But I'll leave the above it it's unabridged form: I enjoyed that reminisce!

[Katon]

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

Dola - just seen your 'compared to'...

You obviously weren;t saying Allardyce's sides are like watching Brazil - apologies. But I'll leave the above it it's unabridged form: I enjoyed that reminisce!

It was fun to read, too. I wasn't really thinking of O'Neill's Leicester sides; I was pretty young then, and my interest in non-Chelsea teams was somewhat spotty, so I don't have nearly a clear enough mental image to argue with someone who watched them regularly. I was thinking of the time at Celtic when he went out of his way in the transfer market to achieve a central midfield of Neil Lennon and Robbie Savage feeding John Hartson and Chris Sutton up front.

I'd also be less opposed to O'Neill if he hadn't left the Celtic job the way he did. Even a British coach is going to get a lot of stick from the press, and I'm not convinced he's going to be ready to shrug all that off any time soon.

[Katon]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Is there any reason why it must be an Englishman? Why not just hire Mourinho part-time? He's already in London.

First, part-time coaches aren't such a great option. Sven watches a lot of matches, looking for candidates to call up, and there's no way someone with a club job could match that; also, there's the question of how he could deal fairly with Chelsea players versus non-Chelsea players.

More generally, while the national team coach always gets a hard time from the press Sven's been having particular difficulty with some of the more xenophobic elements (in particular the News of the World & its like). Appointing someone like Mourinho might make the team more likely to win, but it wouldn't help much with the press criticism. Especially Mourinho; he doesn't get along very well with the English press.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by Katon

I'd also be less opposed to O'Neill if he hadn't left the Celtic job the way he did. Even a British coach is going to get a lot of stick from the press, and I'm not convinced he's going to be ready to shrug all that off any time soon.

What was wrong with the way O'Neill left Celtic? His wife was ill and he left them to be with her, gave them warning he was going to go too. I'm not a fan of his, didn't like the way he acted, hated his tactics, but I can't see anything wrong with the way he left. And he didn't sign Savage for Celtic either.

I also don't agree that Sven gets any trouble due to xenophobia. He's just not a popular manager with the English fans and he's getting nothing worse than Bobby Robson or Graham Taylor got in the past. Not like he's been helping himself either.

I'm sure there is some feeling that a footballing country like England shouldn't need a foreign coach, although a special prize to anybody who can name the last English manager to win the English League

[Katon]

Originally Posted by Critch

What was wrong with the way O'Neill left Celtic? His wife was ill and he left them to be with her, gave them warning he was going to go too.

Oh, I absolutely agree with him doing it. I just don't think that going straight from ill wife to high-pressure, press-screaming-at-you situations is a very good idea. And as much as I like to gripe about Sven's handling of the England midfield, his biggest problem in the job has always been with the press rather than getting results, so that side of things does need considering.

[Katon]

And on the amount-of-slack point: Sven's doing better results-wise than Taylor ever did. He's consistently doing as well as Robson at his best. If he's getting as much slack as they did, there's a reason for that. There are some columnists who are on his back because of the meeting with Kenyon (and have I mentioned how glad I am that deal got blown up) and the wide and varied sex life; there were also some - James Lawton of the Independent springs to mind - who hated the idea of a foreign manager and just never let up.