We have a NBA RIOT in DETROIT! (The 2004 Palace Fight)

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

I'm glad my stupidity amuses you

your only stupidity was supporting the bosox. tigers in 05.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by DeToxRoxDVHStyle

your only stupidity was supporting the bosox. tigers in 05.

Now that we got ours, I wouldn't be so pissed at that (of course I want a repeat)

[cartman]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

LOL, I don't believe I remember any suspensions, but HS basketball games are by far the most violent & most dangerous sports incidents I've ever personally been around.

Of course, most of those involved referees

Tell mre about it. We had a donkey basketball game my senior year. We were down by one with 10 seconds left. Jennie McGrath threw an inbounds pass to me, which went over my head. I held on to the reins, got the ball, climbed on top of my poor donkey, and made a slam Dominique would have been proud of to win the game.

But no, the Ass Owners said I let go of the reins to get the ball, thereby negating my basket.

If someone would have thrown a beer on me at that point, I definitely would have gone Artest on them.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Oh spare me- your letting your disdain for NBA players get in the way of your judgement. Tell you what Gary- let me come to where you work coding TPB 2005, throw beer on you, and scream bloody murder when you get up to do something about it. Why the hell does their salary not entitle them to human emotions ? Is he supposed not to get angry because he makes more money than you ?

Whoa there - I have no disdain for most NBA players - I actually come to their defense more often than not - and their salary has nothing to do with entitling them to human emotions. They can have all the emotions they want - acting on them is different. If you come and throw a beer on me it does not give me the right to get up and assault you. Sure I may want to and sure I may go ahead and punch you but that doesn't make it right or legal to do so.

There is a MAJOR difference between feeling like doing something and actually doing it. That is why we have law enforcement - to arrest the idiot throwing the beer. It is the players job to play basketball - not to brawl with fans.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

That is what the police are for JIMGA - dude gets drunk and idiotic and lobs a beer at a player the police arrest him and take him down to the pokey - end of situation. ...

Clearly, those closest to the situation (the players) don't have a whole lot of confidence in the designated authorities willingness, ability, or capability, of doing that. And I can't really say that I blame them, especially not when they're on the road -- hell, I've seen high school kids who had to be protected by their own county deputies for road games because no one (and I do mean NO one) felt local (i.e. the opponent's county) authorities would perform their duties.

One problem with spectator sports is that the participants are NEVER truly safe from a spectator that wishes to cause them harm.

And that's something that needs to be addressed. Perhaps not to the point of perfection, there's nearly always a way if someone is determined enough, but the current state of on-field security is a tragedy waiting to happen.

[GoldenEagle]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

LOL, I don't believe I remember any suspensions, but HS basketball games are by far the most violent & most dangerous sports incidents I've ever personally been around.

Of course, most of those involved referees

We always got on the refs but they were not invovled in this one. I think it was at halftime when one of the fans from our rivals put their logo on the court. One of our basketball players just had to be walking by and clocked himf for it. All hell broke lose then. It was funny watching massive girl fights but the guy fights were really serious. It took about 15 minutes to get it all settled. It would have helped if they would have had soem male teachers on duty. The female techaersjust had to wait for the cops to show up which took them like 10 minutes to get into riot gear. They actaully had reinforcments from the Memphis PD who were use to that kind of crap and they didn't play

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

Whoa there - I have no disdain for most NBA players - I actually come to their defense more often than not - and their salary has nothing to do with entitling them to human emotions. They can have all the emotions they want - acting on them is different. If you come and throw a beer on me it does not give me the right to get up and assault you. Sure I may want to and sure I may go ahead and punch you but that doesn't make it right or legal to do so.

There is a MAJOR difference between feeling like doing something and actually doing it. That is why we have law enforcement - to arrest the idiot throwing the beer. It is the players job to play basketball - not to brawl with fans.

And when the law enforcement failed here, they have every right to defend themselves against dumbass fans who percieve that they are above reproach. If I keep throwing beer at you and no is doing a thing, should you stop me or not ? If you called a sand n***er, I'd punch you- at some point, you deserve it for your stupidity. Legality is usually the safe reproach- but extenuating circumstances exist.

[Chief Rum]

So I'm playing EQ2 as my favorite Half-orc Thief when this huge Dark Elf Warrior named "F-You Foz" comes out of nowhere and just completely PKing me over and over and saying "Artest die" or something like that. WTF?

CR

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'll risk a dolapost here

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

Whoa there - I have no disdain for most NBA players - I actually come to their defense more often than not - and their salary has nothing to do with entitling them to human emotions.

That's one of the things I find most ... dare I say "ironic" ... about this situation. I'm probably one of the most critical people when it comes to the players in the NBA, and here I am defending them almost unilaterally.

Aside from that, and in a general sense not specific to you, I strongly believe that overall public reaction to this over the next few days will be dictated quite a bit by salary envy.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Clearly, those closest to the situation (the players) don't have a whole lot of confidence in the designated authorities willingness, ability, or capability, of doing that.

Be that as it may that still does not justify letting people who are not law enforcement trying to take the law into their own hands. The players who punched fans are just as guilty of assault as the fans who thew chairs and punches especially considering that at least Artest punched someone who did not throw something at him.

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And that's something that needs to be addressed. Perhaps not to the point of perfection, there's nearly always a way if someone is determined enough, but the current state of on-field security is a tragedy waiting to happen.

As it is in all sports and unless you're not going to allow spectators there's nothing you can do about it except have security surround the court/field/diamond and immediately arrest any fan coming onto the playing surface. There is no excuse for fans to be on the playing surface and no reason for players to go into the stands.

[GoldenEagle]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

So I'm playing EQ2 as my favorite Half-orc Thief when this huge Dark Elf Warrior named "F-You Foz" comes out of nowhere and just completely PKing me over and over and saying "Artest die" or something like that. WTF?

CR

OMG, WTF? LOL

[msf518]

NBA...I LOVE THIS GAME!!!

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

And when the law enforcement failed here, they have every right to defend themselves against dumbass fans who percieve that they are above reproach. If I keep throwing beer at you and no is doing a thing, should you stop me or not ? If you called a sand n***er, I'd punch you- at some point, you deserve it for your stupidity. Legality is usually the safe reproach- but extenuating circumstances exist.

keep throwing beer, yes.

But by all accounts, this was the first beer thrown, and Artest just goes after the 1st fan that stands in front of him.

If it's only a beer, you let the local law enforcement make the first move.

[cartman]

Dola,

Unless you are looking for time off to promote a rap album.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

We always got on the refs but they were not invovled in this one. ...

Scariest incident I ever saw was a fan (sister of our PF) heading for a ref with murder in her eye & a knife in her hand. A fan waylaid her just long enough for cops to restrain her about 5 feet away from the oblivious official.

No charges were filed however ... since 3 of her brother's 5 fouls were totally bogus & we were playing at home

[GoldenEagle]

Originally Posted by cartman

Dola,

Unless you are looking for time off to promote a rap album.

That is a good point. He will have plenty of time to promote his album now.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

And when the law enforcement failed here, they have every right to defend themselves against dumbass fans who percieve that they are above reproach. If I keep throwing beer at you and no is doing a thing, should you stop me or not ? If you called a sand n***er, I'd punch you- at some point, you deserve it for your stupidity. Legality is usually the safe reproach- but extenuating circumstances exist.

I understand what you are saying and yes, Im sure it would be hard for someone to show restraint in that situation but just because you can justify it from a human emotion standpoint does not make it ok or legal.

What I find interesting is that Artest didn't seem to take too much offense to Wallace shoving him in his face/throat but when a fan throws a beer at him THEN he's ready to fight.

[samifan24]

Originally Posted by cartman

Jim Grey carries absolutely zero credibility with me, after his Pete Rose stunt at the All Star game a couple of years ago.

I'm not familiar with that, what happened?

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

I understand what you are saying and yes, Im sure it would be hard for someone to show restraint in that situation but just because you can justify it from a human emotion standpoint does not make it ok or legal.

What I find interesting is that Artest didn't seem to take too much offense to Wallace shoving him in his face/throat but when a fan throws a beer at him THEN he's ready to fight.

And I understand where you're coming from- Im just saying that this is the very definition of extenuating circumstances. The law is based on the premise that it will be enforced and that things like this would be discouraged actively- which as JIMGA has pointed out, was not at all in the NBA. Like I said, if you've sat and called me ethnic slurs for 48 minutes, do you really deserve the benefit of the doubt ?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

... except have security surround the court/field/diamond and immediately arrest any fan coming onto the playing surface.

Or throwing anything at a player. Or onto the playing surface.

And what you said there is pretty much what I'm saying it's time for -- an effective & consisten barrier between fans & players, be that a human barrier,
a "non-human" barrier (fences,plexigass, something), or a combination of the two. Whatever it takes ... unless we're prepared to have tonight's events & beyond become common enough that it wouldn't even warrant a post here, much less a very active thread.

[stevew]

Might take a second to load.
hxxp://www.imgbucket.com/63/boomshakalaka.jpg
Jackson out of nowhere with the full wind up right.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by samifan24

I'm not familiar with that, what happened?

Rose was allowed to go to the game and be honored as one of the games greatest. Gray of course took that time to ask him about the gambling story and all that.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by DeToxRoxDVHStyle

Rose was allowed to go to the game and be honored as one of the games greatest. Gray of course took that time to ask him about the gambling story and all that.

And then, when Gray, at the World Series that year, would ask anyone a question, they would simply walk away from him on camera.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by samifan24

I'm not familiar with that, what happened?

Basically Gray just went after Pete in what was supposed to be just a quick interview.

hxxp://www.everwonder.com/david/jimgray/

Gray's sad sad interview...............


Gray asked Rose, banned in 1989 for gambling, why he hasn't admitted that he bet on baseball.

``I'm not going to admit to something that didn't happen,'' said Rose, baseball's career hits leader. ``I know you're getting tired of hearing me say that. It's too festive a night to worry about it.''

``I mean, show it to me, where is it?,'' Rose asked.

Responded Gray: ``But you agreed to a ban from baseball for life.''

``It also says I can apply for reinstatement in one year. I was looking forward to that day,'' Rose answered.

Rose applied to commissioner Bud Selig two years ago and has not gotten a formal response.

``It's only been two years. He's got a lot of things on his mind,'' Rose said.

Selig has indicated he does not intend to reinstate Rose.

Gray then suggested Rose should perhaps take a different approach by admitting guilt. Rose said, ``You say it hasn't worked, what do you mean?''

Rose seemed surprised by Gray's approach, likening it to a ``prosecutor's brief.''

``You know, I'm surprised you're bombarding me with this,'' he said. ``I'm here to do an interview with you on a great night, a great occasion. You're bringing up something that happened 10 years ago.''

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by cartman

And then, when Gray, at the World Series that year, would ask anyone a question, they would simply walk away from him on camera.

yup. i give those guys who ignored him credit. shows a lot of guts.

[Gary Gorski]

Watching ESPN and enjoyed the studio crew there backpeddling after apparently getting a message from Joe Dumars asking why they are not laying any blame at the feet of the players for going into the stands. Interesting that NOW they're not referring to the "idiot fans" or talking about throwing the fans in jail but they are merely empathizing with the players in a situation like that.

[SirFozzie]

Full video from TV

http://mfile.akamai.com/12942/wmv/vo...35750.200k.asx

[SirFozzie]

That's a six-seven minute clip.

Wow.

[GoldenEagle]

Artest was just chillin'

[Solecismic]

Out of the hundreds of events I've covered, high school basketball tops the list. The fans are right on the court, too easy to hear everything, too easy to get involved.

One time two girls screaming about boyfriends, I think, suddenly whipped out knives and went after each other right behind the scorer's table. One of them nearly landed on my foot. Couldn't believe it, but two teachers got right in there and separated them. I sure as hell wasn't going to.

Another time, some idiots in the crowd who were unhappy with an apparent loss started throwing golf balls from the top of the bleachers at the visiting team bench during a time out. Everyone could see the group doing it, but security didn't go up there.

I know crazy things can happen at high school football games, but I've never seen the crowd involved. I did cover a game that ended in a brawl, and had the extremely wound up coach of one team threaten me when I tried to interview him after the game.

Watching the tapes of this Pistons thing, it's hard to tell what's going on. The sheer number of people who think it's okay to dump a beer on a player tells me something's gone terribly wrong. Yet Artest deserves a good suspension for going into the crowd swinging the way he did. The Pistons CEO yammering about "taunting the fans" by lying on the scorer's table is an idiot.

[DeToxRox]

Spring High School Hockey. Nuff Said.

We brawled with Milford. Parent of the other team started it when he told a kid (as we're coming off of the ice) to beat up one of our D. So our kids dad got in this guys face, so they started fighting. So of course all the kids started going at it. Cops were called in. It was a mess.

[Tigercat]

You don't assault someone cause your "pissed," period. That isn't self defense. You can't tell me that Artest went through the stands out of fear for his own safety. If you are hit with a cup you don't think "Oh no, i am in danger!" You think "Who is the bastard who hit me with a cup?" The obvious reaction was that Artest was pissed and hyped up. Perhaps its understandable, but just because something is understandable does not make it defensible.

Yes, there should be better security for the athletes, especially so that one doesn't get really hurt instead of simply hit by a cup(although even a cup is unacceptable.) But sooner or later one should expect a human being to rise above base emotions to be civilized. Thats why we have laws. Thats why Artest punching the wrong guy out of simply anger is assault and wrong.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Full video from TV

http://mfile.akamai.com/12942/wmv/vo...35750.200k.asx

Did they take it down? It wouldnt load for me.

[Anthony]

i love Artest. he's from Astoria. he went to grammar school with a friend of mine. i went to college with Artest - i was a junior when Artest was on the St. John's University team.

he represented how we do in Astoria. hard core, motherfuckers.

"punks jump up to get beat down".

damn i feel like it's the 90's and i'm a thug drinking in alleyways, getting into trouble with my boyeez.

ASTORIA REPRESENT. fuck you, bitches.

[tucker342]

Just saw it on sportscenter.... WOW.

Alot of people are to blame for that one...

[sovereignstar]

My final thoughts for the night:

Biggest Loser of the Day: The chubby guy in the Pistons jersey that walked onto the court and up to Artest and subsequently got knocked down by J. O'Neal.

My byte for you:

http://new.wavlist.com/movies/027/fri-ktfo2.wav

[Fonzie]

Originally Posted by pooryorick

Or what about pretending to be your mother, and logging on to a messageboard to make everyone think you were "missing", so that the messageboard would worry about you,and send out good thoughts, and tell you what a good person you were, and how you should make sure to be ok, and not mention that you virtually reek of first class loserdom, and that, hey, it's a fucking baseball game, and you must have just about nothing real in your life of any import if you act, or pretend, to act that way?

What's the matter with you? Did Foz stand you up at the prom or something?

Sheesh.

[SunDancer]

Originally Posted by CHEMICAL SOLDIER

Im disgusted by the fans. Totally classless on their part. I cant believe they would do such a thing. The death of fan/player interaction.

I agree. I don't approve Artest and the other players. But this wasn't just a handful of fans, it was a hell lot of fans (nearly everyone who could throw something). They were still throwing shit at the players as they exit the stands in a differnet part.

When the NBA has a golden chance to win fans (with no NHL, it has the spotlight), it fouls big time.

[GoldenEagle]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

My final thoughts for the night:

Biggest Loser of the Day: The chubby guy in the Pistons jersey that walked onto the court and up to Artest and subsequently got knocked down by J. O'Neal.

My byte for you:

http://new.wavlist.com/movies/027/fri-ktfo2.wav

He will not be a loser when he gets awarded with a $10 million lawsuit.

[sovereignstar]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

He will not be a loser when he gets awarded with a $10 million lawsuit.

You're smoking crack if you think he will win shit. You aren't a lawyer, so don't pretend like you know will become of this.

[GoldenEagle]

I may not be a lawayer, but I am smart enough to see that the guy, at least camera (and that is all the evidence you need) did nothing to provke getting punched. He had a deer in the headlights look on his face. He will say he was forced on the court becuase he flet it was the safest place to go.

[KJDelaney]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

My final thoughts for the night:

Biggest Loser of the Day: The chubby guy in the Pistons jersey that walked onto the court and up to Artest and subsequently got knocked down by J. O'Neal.

My byte for you:

http://new.wavlist.com/movies/027/fri-ktfo2.wav

That wav.......

I haven't laughed that hard in a long time.

[GoldenEagle]

And by the way, this crack is good asshole.

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

i love Artest. he's from Astoria. he went to grammar school with a friend of mine. i went to college with Artest - i was a junior when Artest was on the St. John's University team.

he represented how we do in Astoria. hard core, motherfuckers.

"punks jump up to get beat down".

damn i feel like it's the 90's and i'm a thug drinking in alleyways, getting into trouble with my boyeez.

ASTORIA REPRESENT. fuck you, bitches.

Please, i heard you used to make tinkle on The Cyclone out on Coney Island.

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

You're smoking crack if you think he will win shit. You aren't a lawyer, so don't pretend like you know will become of this.

Man, who but a bug in your underoos this week?

[GoldenEagle]

He has been like this ever since he joined the board. He likes conflict. It is his way of getting attention.

[VPI97]

Artest needs professional help

[sovereignstar]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

He has been like this ever since he joined the board. He likes conflict. It is his way of getting attention.

So when did I join this board?

[GoldenEagle]

No clue.

[sovereignstar]

Thank you.