Alright boyz here we go again! (TPF download/first impressions thread)

[The_herd]

Originally posted by Godzilla Blitz
If anyone's there yet, I'd be very interested to hear comments about the AI with respect to roster management, trading, and drafting.

Was just getting ready to fire it up and check these out. I did post earlier that trade AI with picks is a bit spotty, the CPU will not trade you two 1st round picks from what I've seen. I think that's good, stockpiling 1st rounders in FOF was an easy way to cheat.

[rexallllsc]

Originally posted by Ragone
Whats up with only one week of coach contract offering?

Yeah, I think this needs to be tweaked. IT should be like in CM where a coach can be fired/hired at almost any point...it should be like that in TPF, too. One week is def. not enough...and that little slider to select a salary is tough to use.

[The_herd]

Originally posted by Godzilla Blitz
If anyone's there yet, I'd be very interested to hear comments about the AI with respect to roster management, trading, and drafting.

I just simmed a few seasons to keep an eye on how teams draft. I looks real good. Almost every team has at least its 1st rounder starting, a handful have a 2nd rounder, and there is a few with a 3rd starter coming out of that years draft. There were 2 teams with Undrafted freeagents starting at CB and WR. The lowest drafted starter I saw was a 5th rounder.

To summarize, the teams draft need very well. The highest non-starter drafted was at #9 and he was a QB. When drafting there is a list of each teams biggest needs by position on the board and Syd Nyquist doesn't shy away from blasting a team that goes away from their board.

Going to check free agency a bit later.

[The_herd]

Messed around a bit with trading just now, the problem with it seems to be when you offer up superstar players. The CPU will give away just about anything to get a 4.5-5.0 star player. For example, I just offered a 5* OLB to New Orleans for 1st through 5th round picks and they were fine with it. I then took the 1st rounder off the board and replaced it with their 4.5* DT with 5* potential, still ok with it. The only thing they weren't ok with was both the DT and the 1st rounder going in the same deal for my OLB.

The CPU also doesn't seem to distinguish between the value of giving away a pick from the current year and giving away a pick 2 years down the road. Not good there, the picks value should drop a little a bit for each year in the future they are.

The good news is that trades not involving star players appears to be solid. I tried like hell to give away my backup 3* QB and he wasn't generating much interest. My 3.5* starting RB could get me a 2nd round pick if I threw in a late rounder to even up the deal.

[Richards]

Originally posted by Richards
Nope, not in player database or FA list. Only under the database listed under the "tools" menu. And there, they were not listed in the FA pool, but rather in the "incoming draft" list (not sure the exact name, I'm at work. )

I simmed ahead to see if the players would come back, but I got the dreaded "91" error during the game. I was pausing several time, and switching back and forth between other apps. Not sure if that had anything to do with it.

Under Win XP 512ram sp1a if that matters.

In response to Arlie and Scottvib, I'll repost my issues in the tech forum at .400. Also, I can mail my savegame with the missing FA's. I probably also have a savegame back in week 12 or 13 with the bidded on Undrafted rookies that ignored my bids, if you want to recreate this.


I agree that it should not be easy to swoop down on FA's, and I don't mind that they waited 8 weeks for other offers, but none came. These are 1 - 1.5 star players. I can see how a vet FA might say, hey, I'll try my chances that something better will come, but I'd imagine that an undrafted rookie wouldn't still hold out after 8 weeks, no matter who his agent is

[Balldog]

1. RB Dan Hubbard. He is projected to go in the second round. Based on our research, we grade him as a not projected in draft pool value.

WTF.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by The_herd
I just simmed a few seasons to keep an eye on how teams draft. I looks real good. Almost every team has at least its 1st rounder starting, a handful have a 2nd rounder, and there is a few with a 3rd starter coming out of that years draft. There were 2 teams with Undrafted freeagents starting at CB and WR. The lowest drafted starter I saw was a 5th rounder.

To summarize, the teams draft need very well. The highest non-starter drafted was at #9 and he was a QB. When drafting there is a list of each teams biggest needs by position on the board and Syd Nyquist doesn't shy away from blasting a team that goes away from their board.

Some beta tester must have spent a lot of time with that draft, huh?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Balldog
WTF.

Put dashes in. "not-projected-in-draft-pool" value.

I have run accross a serious bug. I installed, and when I am presented, I click onto create league, and everytime the game crashes with a runtime error 91. This is obviously very serious (at least from where I'm sitting anyway)

[Tasan]

I think his WTF might be in reference to it saying he's a second round projection, then it saying your guys say he shouldn't even be drafted....

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Tasan
I think his WTF might be in reference to it saying he's a second round projection, then it saying your guys say he shouldn't even be drafted....

There is a significant chunk of scout variance in this game. This could be a result of two sets of circumstances:

1. He set his scout budget very high, and his scout realized that this kid is gonna be a bust.

2. He set his scout budget very low, and his scout doesn't have a clue.

From my experience with the draft, I'd guess that option 1 is the case.

[Tasan]

Isn't that a REAL wide variance though? From 2nd round to out of the draft? If this is a one off type thing it would be okay I guess, but if this is the norm, it is a problem.

[Balldog]

I got a A+ grade in my first draft, now when do I get to sign these guys?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Tasan
Isn't that a REAL wide variance though? From 2nd round to out of the draft? If this is a one off type thing it would be okay I guess, but if this is the norm, it is a problem.

It isn't the "norm." Even if you put as much money as possible into scouting, you may not always identify a bust....but sometimes you do.

[lynchjm24]

Originally posted by SkyDog
It isn't the "norm." Even if you put as much money as possible into scouting, you may not always identify a bust....but sometimes you do.

I don't know if it's the norm, but I bet you there were teams that wouldn't have taken someone like Ron Dayne if it was the 12th round. I wouldn't have, and all I have is a TV.

[ScottVib]

Originally posted by Balldog
I got a A+ grade in my first draft, now when do I get to sign these guys?

Go to your roster, click on the guys names and negotiate a salary.

[Balldog]

I have an issue with this, why can I not call my own timeouts? I have the ball at my six yard line with 10 seconds left all I want to do is run out the clock and the AI calls a timeout for me after I run the ball.

EDIT: This was at halftime by the way.

[Tasan]

Thats got to be an AI flaw there, especially since you can't call your own.

[Balldog]

Originally posted by ScottVib
Go to your roster, click on the guys names and negotiate a salary.

Why do they sometimes accept my offer but I have no way of knowing? Shouldn't a box come up that says we accept.

[rexallllsc]

Originally posted by Tasan
I think his WTF might be in reference to it saying he's a second round projection, then it saying your guys say he shouldn't even be drafted....

I dont see that as a problem. That stuff happens in real life all the time.

[ScottVib]

Originally posted by Balldog
Why do they sometimes accept my offer but I have no way of knowing? Shouldn't a box come up that says we accept.

A box should come up that says we think this is a fair offer and we accept if you submit an acceptable offer. Also after you sign them the agents comment will say that they aren't interested in renegotiating their contract.

[The_herd]

Originally posted by ScottVib
A box should come up that says we think this is a fair offer and we accept if you submit an acceptable offer. Also after you sign them the agents comment will say that they aren't interested in renegotiating their contract.

The 1st time I offered a contract to a player and he accepted I got no comment box. I commented on it earlier in this thread, but I haven't seen it since.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by ScottVib
A box should come up that says we think this is a fair offer and we accept if you submit an acceptable offer. Also after you sign them the agents comment will say that they aren't interested in renegotiating their contract.

I'm fairly sure that sometimes the box doesn't come up.

[Sidhe]

Scott sometimes the "fair offer" message didn't pop up. It's a little thing, but someone should know.

Also, I'm getting absolutely no play on my shutdown problem over on the tech boards. I have only had XP for a little under a year, but it seems I remember someone saying these shutdowns happen in XP for a reason, but now I can't remember anything else about it.

Does this ring a bell with anyone?

[Ben E Lou]

Heh. Poor Scott. Three people correcting him at one time.

Thanks for being over here Scott! Seriously.

[Balldog]

Well I am thinking this game is pretty much useless to me until we get real rosters.........hopefully Erich is done soon.

[rexallllsc]

Originally posted by Balldog
Well I am thinking this game is pretty much useless to me until we get real rosters.........hopefully Erich is done soon.

I dont want to say useless...but its really tough for me to hit the ground running w/o a frame of reference, if you will...I.E. if I'm the Chargers, I know I need D. If I'm the Raiders, I know I need to get youngers...

[Balldog]

Maybe useless was a little strong but not knowing any players makes it hard to call plays.

[The_herd]

Very small question for Arlie or Joe:

Would it be possible to make the current week highlighted yellow (or some other color) on the Season Schedule NAV bar?

Also, It would be great to have the human controlled team highlighted on the schedule as well.

[FloridaFringe]

Originally posted by rexallllsc
I dont want to say useless...but its really tough for me to hit the ground running w/o a frame of reference, if you will...I.E. if I'm the Chargers, I know I need D. If I'm the Raiders, I know I need to get youngers...

Many others probably feel the same way. However, try to consider the lack of foreknowledge as an added handicap against you. This should make the game more difficult and challenging, therefore more satisfying once you accomplish your goals successfully. Just a though.

[rexallllsc]

One thing I can say for certain...very promising for a first-gen release.

[Die Hand die Verletzt]

Originally posted by SkyDog
Heh. Poor Scott. Three people correcting him at one time.

Thanks for being over here Scott! Seriously.

Yea, that would help me get into the game much more as well.

[mckerney]

Originally posted by Tasan
Isn't that a REAL wide variance though? From 2nd round to out of the draft? If this is a one off type thing it would be okay I guess, but if this is the norm, it is a problem.

Kelly Campbell?

[Tasan]

I KNEW someone would finally bring him up ;- )

Thats why I wanted to know if it happened all the time or just one offs, like him. There are usually one or two of these guys in drafts, but not a whole slew of them.

[Honolulu Blue]

Originally posted by Tasan
I think his WTF might be in reference to it saying he's a second round projection, then it saying your guys say he shouldn't even be drafted....

Things like this do happen, but mostly because they're perceived as being head cases or poor fits for the offense/defense.

The wording in the example given above was poor; I would say something like this: "He is projected to be drafted sometime in the second round, but we do not recommend taking him because..."

[damnMikeBrown]

Well if this isn't a work of frustration. . .

Won't let me advance to week 21 of FA because my draft picks aren't signed. Hello, they are. Oh fun. Not that it didn't take freaking 2 hours to figure out how to do it. Nice and non-intuitive.

The point that is really annoying though, is the help system. I download a 54meg game, and they put the help files on-line? WTF? That is -not- helpfull.

[Karim]

Ok, my initial review after "playing" for about 5 hours 'till 3:30 a.m....

1) The offseason coaching hiring/firing is only 1 week, which sucks. I couldn't find out any way to fire my offensive coordinator so I assumed I simply have to make an offer to another OC and if he accepts, my current OC will be replaced. I make an offer and get no message as to what happened when I proceed to the next week.

2) I haven't been able to simulate a game because of what I think is an incorrect # of each position player. It tells me "there is a problem with the FB", but doesn't tell me what. I sign another FB, go through the auto depth-chart and try and sim. Now there's a problem with the WR, etc., etc. It would be nice if the manual or pop-up window would just say "You need 2FB, 6 WR, etc., etc.". I now only have 3 OG and there are no offensive linemen available in free agency so I don't know how to proceed.

3) The active/inactive roster screen is useless since it is ordered by jersey # instead of position. I inevitably need to write down who is going to be inactive or flip back and forth between screens.

4) You don't always get notified that your contract offer has been accepted. I get a little "flash" of the screen sometimes with the updated contract info in the player profile but not always a pop-up window.

5) Free agency needs some work. We really need to be notified that a free agent we bid on has signed with another team. I waited around without realizing the player I wanted had signed weeks earlier with another team. I offered a 26 year old QB a 3 year deal, fairly decent signing bonus, with a guaranteed starting promise. Year 1 was over $1 million and it went up from there. He signed with Cleveland for $650k on a 1 year deal and wasn't going to see the field. This was really frustrating.

6) I love the draft. This is easily the best part of the game for me so far. I only wish the lowest speed setting was a little slower. Also, the start/pause/resume doesn't always show up.

7) I can't execute a trade for whatever reason. Again, the manual is no help here. Does the thermometer have to go up a certain level before the "offer trade" button lights up? I kept on clicking on that thing and nothing happened.

Luckily, I have no stability issues.

This game has a lot of potential and is quite impressive considering it's a first release. A couple patches in and this will be a solid game all the way around.

Now if I could only sim a game...

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Karim
Ok, my initial review after "playing" for about 5 hours 'till 3:30 a.m....

1) The offseason coaching hiring/firing is only 1 week, which sucks. I couldn't find out any way to fire my offensive coordinator so I assumed I simply have to make an offer to another OC and if he accepts, my current OC will be replaced. I make an offer and get no message as to what happened when I proceed to the next week.

2) I haven't been able to simulate a game because of what I think is an incorrect # of each position player. It tells me "there is a problem with the FB", but doesn't tell me what. I sign another FB, go through the auto depth-chart and try and sim. Now there's a problem with the WR, etc., etc. It would be nice if the manual or pop-up window would just say "You need 2FB, 6 WR, etc., etc.". I now only have 3 OG and there are no offensive linemen available in free agency so I don't know how to proceed.

3) The active/inactive roster screen is useless since it is ordered by jersey # instead of position. I inevitably need to write down who is going to be inactive or flip back and forth between screens.

4) You don't always get notified that your contract offer has been accepted. I get a little "flash" of the screen sometimes with the updated contract info in the player profile but not always a pop-up window.

5) Free agency needs some work. We really need to be notified that a free agent we bid on has signed with another team. I waited around without realizing the player I wanted had signed weeks earlier with another team. I offered a 26 year old QB a 3 year deal, fairly decent signing bonus, with a guaranteed starting promise. Year 1 was over $1 million and it went up from there. He signed with Cleveland for $650k on a 1 year deal and wasn't going to see the field. This was really frustrating.

6) I love the draft. This is easily the best part of the game for me so far. I only wish the lowest speed setting was a little slower. Also, the start/pause/resume doesn't always show up.

7) I can't execute a trade for whatever reason. Again, the manual is no help here. Does the thermometer have to go up a certain level before the "offer trade" button lights up? I kept on clicking on that thing and nothing happened.

Luckily, I have no stability issues.

This game has a lot of potential and is quite impressive considering it's a first release. A couple patches in and this will be a solid game all the way around.

Now if I could only sim a game...

1. Agreed. I don't think they'd add another week or two to the offseason. If that is the case, I, for one, am going to be pushing and prodding for the option to do secondary and tertiary offers during Week 1. It stinks to have to play out your very first season with a horrid coaching staff because you only had one shot.

2. I think that will be an early patch issue.

3. I've suggested to Arlie, and he seems enthused about the idea, that on the "Offensive Roster--Ratings" and "Defensive Roster--Ratings" screens (Ctrl-O and Ctrl-Y), to be able to right click on a player, and a little mini-menu comes up: "Activate/Deactivate/Release/Negotiate". If something like that could happen, I think a large chunk of the interface issues are gone. Those two screens have just about all the info you need to make the active/inactive decision, so why not have the option to do it from there?

4. Arlie's been made aware of that.

5. Haven't seen that yet, or heard about it. You might want to make sure Arlie knows that.

6. Someone must have really spent a lot of time making suggestions to Arlie to get that part of the game right, huh? I sense real genius at work in that part of the game.

I've mentioned that pesky little button to Arlie, but I'm not sure there's rhyme or reason as to when it doesn't work. It is the there the vast majority of the time for me, and I've yet to be able to say specifically, "If you do x, y, then z, the start/pause/resume button no longer works." Without that, it makes it hard for him to trace. If you can come up with a pattern, PLEASE let him know.

7. I think the thermometer has to be almost all the way to the top. It is meant to be a visual guage of how amenable to the offer the other team is.

[Axxon]

Originally posted by damnMikeBrown

The point that is really annoying though, is the help system. I download a 54meg game, and they put the help files on-line? WTF? That is -not- helpfull.

That's likely a problem with your install. The exact same "manual" is included in the tpf\help directory and is accessable through the help\contents menu option.

Now, it's not exactly a good manual or anything I'll agree with you there but it's not only accessable online.

[Axxon]

Originally posted by SkyDog


3. I've suggested to Arlie, and he seems enthused about the idea, that on the "Offensive Roster--Ratings" and "Defensive Roster--Ratings" screens (Ctrl-O and Ctrl-Y), to be able to right click on a player, and a little mini-menu comes up: "Activate/Deactivate/Release/Negotiate". If something like that could happen, I think a large chunk of the interface issues are gone. Those two screens have just about all the info you need to make the active/inactive decision, so why not have the option to do it from there?

What I was thinking would really make a nice right click option for the free agent and draft screens would be if the game would show you a mini depth chart of your palyers at the current players position . Have it list name, experience, cap info and grade.

Especially at the beginning when deciding offers to your own free agents I have to keep going back to the roster screen because yes, even though Bubba is a 3 star fullback if he's your fourth best option you aren't going to try real hard to resign him.

Also, do you draft that stud DE if you have three young studs already at the position. Right click and you can see what your "need" is at DE. Would be super nice.

It would be nice if they could implement some nice screen specific right click options like the ones noted above.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally posted by Axxon
What I was thinking would really make a nice right click option for the free agent and draft screens would be if the game would show you a mini depth chart of your palyers at the current players position . Have it list name, experience, cap info and grade.

Especially at the beginning when deciding offers to your own free agents I have to keep going back to the roster screen because yes, even though Bubba is a 3 star fullback if he's your fourth best option you aren't going to try real hard to resign him.

Also, do you draft that stud DE if you have three young studs already at the position. Right click and you can see what your "need" is at DE. Would be super nice.

It would be nice if they could implement some nice screen specific right click options like the ones noted above.

Brilliant! I'm passing this along to Arlie. In FOF and TPF, I end up having to write down a list of my position needs. My mantra in beta testing this game has been: Make it so the gamer doesn't have to spend so much time information-gathering, as decision-making. This fits right into that philosophy.

[Ben E Lou]

Arlie has posted a fix list for patch one:

I should have the patch out no later that Wednesday. Here's what it will have:

Crash Fixes:

- Crash when cutting a player you gave a RFA tender offer to
- View Depth chart after trading a starter
- Start fantasy draft in offseason and begin college draft sometimes caused a crash
- Put only one player in the compare option
- Clicking Next or Previous when signing your own FAs and using UFA
negociation to get to the player card.
- Crash where moving your mouse wheel really fast on career leaders
- Rare and odd crash involving very large signing bonuses (not sure how it happened or if it really did, but I added in some logic to prevent it)
- Crash in regards to having inactive or cut players in your depth chart and trying to play week 1 (this has been a main one for many of you emailing me - an easy fix is to remove all players from your depth chart that were cut or are inactive for week 1)

Bug Fixes:

- Now able to do Signing Bonuses for rookies and vets in week 11 higher than 30K
- Make sure all offers are atleast the league minimum for that player.
- Fix plays to show when viewing the defensive play diagrams
- Fix changes to stick when editing conf names and divisions in league creation
- Display issue where kickoffs out of bounds were called touchbacks in the PBP on rare occasions
- False Start - penalty declined bug
- Repetitive hiring/firing of coaches
- 4th down penalties against the offense being declined
- PBP issue a penalty on a punt sometimes gave the ball to the opposing team on your original line of scrimmage
- Safeties should now appear in the PBP and gamelog.
- Fixed the advance scouting reports to have better value good rushing teams in its description (ie, not most teams favoring passing)
- Fixed a trade AI issue where you could get multiple good players and high picks for one Star.
- Refined general panelty accept/decline logic

Enhancements:
- You can now call timeouts in the game.
- You will now receive an email about any coach you make an offer to, regardless if he signs with you or not
- Refined the coach sign AI to be a little more fair to the human since there is only 1 week.
- You will now get an email after the undrafted FA bidding week (11) is complete detailing where each person you bid on went (or if they signed with you)
- Refined the AI in the undrafted FA period to give human players a better shot
- Marginal players will sign earlier in the FA process even if they only have one offer.
- Fixed some interface issues on things like not having the FA grid re-sort after making a bid. You will also stay in the contract screen after making a bid. This should make the week 11 undrafted FA period a little easier as you can simply sort by rating - make an offer - then click the next arrow.
- Reduced the number of Veterans asking for 6 and 7 year deals
- Changed the click in the coach bid slider to equal 25K for easier offers
- Made most of the scroll bars do a full page up or down when clicking the area above the arrows.

Let me know if I missed anything. I will try and get accepting penalties into the next update after the holidays as well.

Arlie

[The_herd]

One thing I like about the playcalling interface in FOF is the 2 minute offense box that you can check. I was wondering if it would be possible to put a "run the clock down" box that does pretty much the opposite? There is nothing more frustrating than trying to bleed the clock in the 4th quarter, running the ball 3 straight times, and not even seeing a minute go off the clock.

I only watch a game once in a blue moon, but that has been one of the experiences that are frustrating for me.

[Bee]

I blame all problems with the game on SkyDog.

[The_herd]

Originally posted by Karim


1) The offseason coaching hiring/firing is only 1 week, which sucks. I couldn't find out any way to fire my offensive coordinator so I assumed I simply have to make an offer to another OC and if he accepts, my current OC will be replaced. I make an offer and get no message as to what happened when I proceed to the next week.

I can understand them not wanting to add weeks to the offseason, but is there any way they could split this week up into 3 separate phases?

[Bonegavel]

Originally posted by The_herd
I can understand them not wanting to add weeks to the offseason, but is there any way they could split this week up into 3 separate phases?

I just don't understand why this can't be an "anytime" acitivity. With coaches being a big part of these games, they are sure given little attention.

[The_herd]

Originally posted by Bonegavel
I just don't understand why this can't be an "anytime" acitivity. With coaches being a big part of these games, they are sure given little attention.

That would be the perfect solution, however, no developer has attempted it yet, so I don't hold out much hope.

[Buckner]

I'm still very new to FOF but have really taken to its depth and its general playability. Some of you have really helped me out with some of my questions, so I guess it comes down to this for those with TPF:

Is it worth it? If you could only play 1 game would it be FOF or TPF? Assuming the above patch stuff is fixed, which is the better game? I know it's still maybe too early to tell but hey.. That sure is a long patch list for a game that's been out a few days, though. Makes you wonder (and makes me fear) that the deeper you go the more you'll uncover that needs fixing. I'm very leery about buying TPF because I felt .400 Software's College Basketball game was atrocious despite a good first impression and I don't want to get burned again.

A few questions that I have not read addressed here:

-How's the Sim Engine? This was the killer in their college hoop game. Do you see solid stats or are there any that stand out as bizarro-world? Leading rushers, passers, sack leaders, etc all look within reason?

-Anyone messed with the multiplayer stuff? (I assume there is MP stuff..). Easy to set up?

-Have any FAs priced themselves out of the market? Do the top shelf FAs all sign believable contracts?

-How's the in-game CPU playcalling AI?

-Finally how's player progression? Any late round picks turning into solid players? Any first round picks busting?

thanks guys,
Mike

[Wasabiak]

I just finished my first rookie draft.............I got an F!

However, the team owner is a tight ass, so i had to pull a few people off the street to do my scouting for me (like the shopping cart guy in Big Daddy). I suspect that has something to do with it. I'm really having fun with this game. A patch or 2 to tweak a few things, and we'll have ourselves a very nice football sim.

[Axxon]

Originally posted by Bonegavel
I just don't understand why this can't be an "anytime" acitivity. With coaches being a big part of these games, they are sure given little attention.

Speaking as a guy who once cut a player in CM during halftime I must agree with you. BTW, that is indeed my dearest memory in any game ever.

This guy was a million pound signing whose favorite number must have been 5 as he sure as heck kept getting them.

On the game in question we weren't doing well but it certainly wasn't all his fault but I saw one five too many and not only did I boot his butt I didn't let him ride the team bus back home.

That felt SOOOO good and the team didn't even get upset. Some things just need doing.